Well this is a can of worms

But even armas has used a term that could be termed derogatory. 'large or skinny, black or white'. The opposite of large is small, the opposite of skinny is fat. I realise I'm nit picking, but I really fail to see why its ok to use skinny & not fat. Or any of the phrases used by the 'fluffys'. Skinny, not a real woman, un sexy are all ok? Double standards somewhat imo.
 
Ok, so before I begin let me clarify my position here.....

I am morbidly obese and have been for about 80% of my life. I am currently making a decision about whether to stop riding my mare for now and try to lose some weight or whether to carry on. I am at my happiest at a weight of about 5 stone less than I am now and I feel infinitely happier riding at 20 pounds less than what I weigh now. Despite my weight (which is at the top end for my mare) she is more than happy to carry me out on a very excited and jolly hack, work nicely in the school and two professionals have recently suggested that I am ok on the horse and I should get on and ride for her and for me - I have also done all of the calculations according to her weight, fitness, bone etc and I am within these limitations. Although I am morbidly obese I don't look too big for my mare, people are often suprised to hear how much I weigh and although I am obviously overweight my horse's bum is still wider than mine :)

I am incredibly unhappy. At the moment, so unhappy that sometimes I don't want to be alive. I sometimes think to myself that I would rather be without the constant voice of hate that goes on in my head. This is all my choice, I choose to stuff my face, I choose to binge eat in secret, I choose to make myself bigger, more unhealthy, I choose to lie in bed and worry that my heart is going to stop in the night because I am so big (irrational and stupid).

All of this is my choice, I want a different way of life, thinking, feeling but I can't seem to get it right. When I start to lose the weight I feel weird, like my points of reference of moved. I don't know how to be, people are different and it all feels uncomfortable and a bit 'spacey'. Hard to explain.

What doesn't make it easier is when people say 'eat less move more'. Please, please give me some credit.

What makes all of this worse is the fact that my husband is a Personal Trainer. He met me somewhere near my heaviest and has known me four stone down from where I am now. I feel sorry for him because I am taking all of my anger out on him and it isn't fair. He has no problem with my weight, he has a massive problem with my self loathing. When we got together he thought I was a girl who was happy with my weight as that is what I presented to be. If he had known then what he knows now I am certain he wouldn;t have been interested.

So, how does this relate to this thread? Does anyone honestly think a single person on that American thread is truly happy with their weight? Wants to be that unhealthy? Want to have to desperatley seek reassurance from a bunch of strangers who tell tham that it is fine to continue to cripple their pony? Many of those people are riding horses that are unsuitable and I can not support that. It is unfair and cruel and it isn't wrong to point that out to them.

This thread was interesting to me because it showed a general concern for the horses and their well-being and some posters made their feelings clear in a concerned and appropriate way. Others have been very mean. On the one hand you are suggesting that it is inhumane to subject a pony to carrying a ridicluous weight but I would say it is also inhumane to band together and say such horrible things about fat people. If you saw me walking down the street I definitely wouldn't be one of those people that get sniggered and stared at but I am the same as those people in that I, for now, am trapped in a place in my mind that refuses to let me get out. I will and I have to promise myself that this will be the last time. If I let myself go here again then I am certain that I will choose some kind of alternative.

I think that it has been fair to bring this forum to other's attention but it has been unfair to work as a giggling pack of grown ups who feel it is ok to continually insult a particular demographic. It has made uncomfortable reading - not because I am a fatty myself but because I am a grown up.

If you put some of these posts in the context of the establishment that I work in you would find yourselves excluded :)

I am not symapthising with these riders and I haven't taken any of what has been said personally. I am asking for people not to be so cruel towards others.

*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
 
There was also a post on there which said..can't lose weight then make the test of the world fat' not an exact quote but basically this is what they were saying. I cant bear to go back and quote exactly as ive seen enough. It's the same old defence presented by overweight people that curves=sexy. Note the number of references to 'real' women on the site. Is the lady who runs the site overweight? I've not seen a picture of her but did get the idea that she's seen an opening in the Market and is cashing on on it. There's money in that thar fat :D
 
Billie1007 said:
Ok, so before I begin let me clarify my position here.....

I am morbidly obese and have been for about 80% of my life. I am currently making a decision about whether to stop riding my mare for now and try to lose some weight or whether to carry on. I am at my happiest at a weight of about 5 stone less than I am now and I feel infinitely happier riding at 20 pounds less than what I weigh now. Despite my weight (which is at the top end for my mare) she is more than happy to carry me out on a very excited and jolly hack, work nicely in the school and two professionals have recently suggested that I am ok on the horse and I should get on and ride for her and for me - I have also done all of the calculations according to her weight, fitness, bone etc and I am within these limitations. Although I am morbidly obese I don't look too big for my mare, people are often suprised to hear how much I weigh and although I am obviously overweight my horse's bum is still wider than mine :)

I am incredibly unhappy. At the moment, so unhappy that sometimes I don't want to be alive. I sometimes think to myself that I would rather be without the constant voice of hate that goes on in my head. This is all my choice, I choose to stuff my face, I choose to binge eat in secret, I choose to make myself bigger, more unhealthy, I choose to lie in bed and worry that my heart is going to stop in the night because I am so big (irrational and stupid).

All of this is my choice, I want a different way of life, thinking, feeling but I can't seem to get it right. When I start to lose the weight I feel weird, like my points of reference of moved. I don't know how to be, people are different and it all feels uncomfortable and a bit 'spacey'. Hard to explain.

What doesn't make it easier is when people say 'eat less move more'. Please, please give me some credit.

What makes all of this worse is the fact that my husband is a Personal Trainer. He met me somewhere near my heaviest and has known me four stone down from where I am now. I feel sorry for him because I am taking all of my anger out on him and it isn't fair. He has no problem with my weight, he has a massive problem with my self loathing. When we got together he thought I was a girl who was happy with my weight as that is what I presented to be. If he had known then what he knows now I am certain he wouldn;t have been interested.

So, how does this relate to this thread? Does anyone honestly think a single person on that American thread is truly happy with their weight? Wants to be that unhealthy? Want to have to desperatley seek reassurance from a bunch of strangers who tell tham that it is fine to continue to cripple their pony? Many of those people are riding horses that are unsuitable and I can not support that. It is unfair and cruel and it isn't wrong to point that out to them.

This thread was interesting to me because it showed a general concern for the horses and their well-being and some posters made their feelings clear in a concerned and appropriate way. Others have been very mean. On the one hand you are suggesting that it is inhumane to subject a pony to carrying a ridicluous weight but I would say it is also inhumane to band together and say such horrible things about fat people. If you saw me walking down the street I definitely wouldn't be one of those people that get sniggered and stared at but I am the same as those people in that I, for now, am trapped in a place in my mind that refuses to let me get out. I will and I have to promise myself that this will be the last time. If I let myself go here again then I am certain that I will choose some kind of alternative.

I think that it has been fair to bring this forum to other's attention but it has been unfair to work as a giggling pack of grown ups who feel it is ok to continually insult a particular demographic. It has made uncomfortable reading - not because I am a fatty myself but because I am a grown up.

If you put some of these posts in the context of the establishment that I work in you would find yourselves excluded :)

I am not symapthising with these riders and I haven't taken any of what has been said personally. I am asking for people not to be so cruel towards others.

*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
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Thank you for posting that.It was very brave.I also think that there are people posting on here that are doing it to be mean and spiteful rather than that they care for any horses welfare.I have no real idea of exactly how much it is reasonable to ask any horse to carry.Being fat myself I do think carefully before I ride any horse.In fact I went to try what was described to me as a 14 hand cob at a dealers.I got there and it was a slightly cobby PONY.I refused to try it and told the dealer why.She was a woman and about 2 stone heavier than me.She said I ride it regularly!!! I do hope not.
 
smokey said:
i dont imagine the poor beggar will be doing much dancing! The riders bum is actually overhanging the horses sides. How could she think this was ok?:confused:
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That thread is on the main forum isn't it? but nothing negative mentioned. This is what I find difficult to understand.
 
Billie1007 said:
*hovers over post button unsure whether this is forum suicide*
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Don't do it! I totally see where you are coming from, but remember people are ripping into people who deserve it, all be it, in places hurtful. Its like that awful woman who wrote books about understanding arabs whilst neglecting hers :rolleyes: people said mean things about her appearance on the thread on here which they'd never say about someone nice. Please see it as what it is, giving people stick who deserve it, if that doesn't include you, then it shouldn't hurt you, IYSWIM.

Please don't be sad, I hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
Billie1007, that isn't forum suicide, and thank you for being so brave.
I hope I speak for a lot of us when I say that I don't care how big someone is as long as they aren't intending to get on a horse, especially one that is very unsuitable for carrying a heavy rider. Weight is an intensely personal affair of course, and a lot of us have issues about food and struggle to be the size/weight we want to be, with varying success.
The infuriating attitudes on that forum though really do light the blue touchpaper for true horse lovers (as I think we all are, on this thread). I care more about the horses, who have no choice, and might well be harmed by what is happening, than the people, who do have a choice, and imho who should know better, and should not be bolstered in their denial by likeminded delusionists. Maybe that makes me a terrible person though, caring more about the horses than the people.
It sounds as if you need a support group who will help you with the way you feel when you try to lose weight etc. I hope you find something that works for you.
 
Billy, I genuinely apologise if you've found anything I've said offensive. I can assure you its not the way I think about people overweight in general, it was inspired by my sense of outrage at how cruel some of them are. I genuinely do feel sorry for anyone who is unhappy with their size, but I cannot muster sympathy for those to whom I referred. If they had been thin adults on minis, I would have used words & phrases to describe them that could easily be used as insults about me as a thin adult. Ones such as those being used on the ff page currently. So really nothing to do with them being fat or thin, just their cruel actions. But again billy, I apologise if I have offended you.
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
Sigh. I suppose I should give up on trying to get an educated answer as to how 22" saddles are fitted, and relations to conformation, ie, back length v weight bearing capacity then....

I'd have thought with how meticulously this thread is being watched, someone could have enlightened more on the product as to how it was designed. Whether by a follow article, or whatever means.


*twaddles out*
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Too busy taking offence, and flouncing off in a huff.
 
littlelegs said:
Billy, I genuinely apologise if you've found anything I've said offensive. I can assure you its not the way I think about people overweight in general, it was inspired by my sense of outrage at how cruel some of them are. I genuinely do feel sorry for anyone who is unhappy with their size, but I cannot muster sympathy for those to whom I referred. If they had been thin adults on minis, I would have used words & phrases to describe them that could easily be used as insults about me as a thin adult. Ones such as those being used on the ff page currently. So really nothing to do with them being fat or thin, just their cruel actions. But again billy, I apologise if I have offended you.
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very well put Littlelegs, can I add my own apology to Billy please. billy, unlike you, the people on that forum do not appear to care if they are way too large for their ponies, you have stated that you are aware that you are a larger girl, and you have checked your horses ability to carry you. that is responsible ownership. I am sorry that you took offence at some of the comments made, it wasnt my intention.
 
I do think that some of the morbidly obese riders on the american site find it as difficult to see themselves clearly as the very thin people with annorexia nervosa do. However that is no excuse for the people around them to collude with the delusion. If I have a patient who is severly underweight, I tell them so, likewise if I see a very fat patient, then I talk about their weight. Overeating can be as much an illness as annorexia, but these are issues that can be overcome with the correct help,PROVIDED the person with the problem is willing to do something about it, if they aren't then nothing will change. All the help in the world will do nothing if the person in need of help waits for someone to 'cure' them, or if they allow themselves to be convinced that there isn't a problem.
 
Billie 1007, I agree with the others, the posts weren't directed at riders and owners like yourself who ride suitable horses and know when they have reached the limit of their horses ability, but towards those who will make any excuse under the sun to ride a horse that really isn't up to it. If you are well within your horses limits get out there and ride, it will do you both good. :)

I am sorry that you struggle with your weight, but it sounds to me as if your issues are more emotional and concern your own self esteem rather than weight, you say your husband wouldn't have been interested if he knew how you really felt, but the fact is that he is still with you and so there must be something wonderful about you.;)

I do hope that you can learn to love yourself and lose the self loathing, regardless of what size you are your body is still an amazing machine that we should appreciate.
 
Billie1007 you are brave to post that .have you considered cognative behavioural therapy which can be a huge help with issues like yours .
these issues are complicated CBT has a proven track record of helping if you ask your GP they will point you inthe right direction .
 
Thanks for the support guys, I should have explained better that I wasn't offended by the people taking the mickey out of fat people, nobody could say anything that would make my situation any worse but I was just generally offended by the unkindness of it all.

I posted about the thinking behind my weight to try and encourage people to consider what is really behind those pictures. I see people who are suffering just as much as any of those horses. I understand about choice and the animal not having one and that is exactly what makes it wrong that some of them get on their horse. I totally get that. Some of those are people who are desperately clinging on to some sense of normality - a sign that they are still part of and can take part in life, perhaps they are kidding themselves that if they aren't too fat for their horse then they aren't too fat at all.

I am at a stage where I don't want to communicate with a single person in real life and yet I am surrouded by people all day every day. I want time to stop and the world to go away. My point is - you just need to think of the bigger picture before you say unkind things (no pun intended). Say what you mean about the horses suffering but there is no need to couch it in insult and mean spirit.


xx
 
Billie1007 said:
Thanks for the support guys, I should have explained better that I wasn't offended by the people taking the mickey out of fat people, nobody could say anything that would make my situation any worse but I was just generally offended by the unkindness of it all.

I posted about the thinking behind my weight to try and encourage people to consider what is really behind those pictures. I see people who are suffering just as much as any of those horses. I understand about choice and the animal not having one and that is exactly what makes it wrong that some of them get on their horse. I totally get that. Some of those are people who are desperately clinging on to some sense of normality - a sign that they are still part of and can take part in life, perhaps they are kidding themselves that if they aren't too fat for their horse then they aren't too fat at all.

I am at a stage where I don't want to communicate with a single person in real life and yet I am surrouded by people all day every day. I want time to stop and the world to go away. My point is - you just need to think of the bigger picture before you say unkind things (no pun intended). Say what you mean about the horses suffering but there is no need to couch it in insult and mean spirit.


xx
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Billie1007 each side of this debate has said things about the other .
People have the right to commucate in any way they chose and yes you may find that upsetting but your issue is you you know that you have said so .
So seek help for yourself the views of strangers on the Internet canot harm you please seek help from your GP to begin with.
Just do it , go and make an appointment, life does not have to be this way.
 
Billy007, you are not the same as those people who have obviously not bothered to check whether their horse is capable of carrying them. Those people who think that if the horse doesn't brace or stagger, then it is okay, who take 14hh ponies on trail rides and over obstacles. I have absolutely no problem with overweight people who are adequately horsed. I posted that I fully understand having food cravings so strong that they are impossible to resist. I posted about this to illustrate that I am not some skinny who has no idea what they are talking about. But I was called a plebeian, and inhuman!

You do sound very depressed to me. I found the best way to stay off the chocolate and cakes was just to not buy them. I am sitting here craving them right now. The cravings do not go away. But I have a choice of being a little bit heavier but much happier, or be skinny and suffer nausea. Thankfully I have managed to stabilize my weight at ten stone despite my medication induced intense sugar and carb cravings. It does sound as though you are in dire need of some help. I really do hope that you find some peace within yourself.
 
I do see what you're saying billy, & I'm sure you may well be on the right track in that some are clinging desperately to a sense of normality in that if they can still ride, its not so bad. But I still find it unforgivable. I'm not saying I have battled obesity, but there's been times in my life where its been tough for other reasons. And during those rough times, I have had to sometimes also make a decision about an animal, which came down to their welfare versus my need. And everytime there was never any question that the animals welfare came above my mental needs. So no matter what is behind the pictures, its no excuse imo.
 
kerilli said:
The infuriating attitudes on that forum though really do light the blue touchpaper for true horse lovers (as I think we all are, on this thread). I care more about the horses, who have no choice, and might well be harmed by what is happening, than the people, who do have a choice, and imho who should know better, and should not be bolstered in their denial by likeminded delusionists. Maybe that makes me a terrible person though, caring more about the horses than the people.
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totally agree with this.

the MD of ff is almost coming off like some zealous cult leader of the 'fluffies'

AMEN sista!
 
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rhino said:
Ah, now saying that there has to come a point where you are too heavy for a particular horse is exactly the same as being racist.



Written by the MD of FF, who has just updated that she is not a believer in free speech. I could never have guessed...
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Oh dear lord :eek:

I do find this sort of thread difficult to comment on, as I genuinely don't want to cause offence. Carrying a severely overweight rider is going to be detrimental to the health of the horse, no matter how strong he is (or appears to be!). I'm not saying that you have to be a skinny minnie to ride - I know quite a few riders who are overweight, but who are very well-mounted on horses who carry them easily. But there comes a point where a person is simply too heavy to ride, no matter how large or strong the horse. This isn't designed to be rude or offensive - it is said with the welfare of the horse in mind. But also, a person who is too heavy to ride simply isn't healthy. It's all very well saying "big is beautiful" and "real women have curves", but this is only true up to a point. Because obese isn't beautiful, it isn't good or healthy, and anyone who thinks it is has a seriously skewed perception of what people ought to look like! And once again, I'm not saying this to insult "larger" women.There is a huge difference between big and curvy and morbidly obese, in my opinion. And I don't think it should be okay to be rude to people or make them feel bad about themselves because they are overweight, but I don't see the point in lying to people making them think it is fine to be seriously overweight, because it's not, even if they don't ride. It works both ways - anorexia is not okay either!
Anyway, that's how I see it, although as I'm skinny and clearly not a real woman, I don't know if my opinion counts :p
 
HashRouge said:
Oh dear lord :eek:

I do find this sort of thread difficult to comment on, as I genuinely don't want to cause offence. Carrying a severely overweight rider is going to be detrimental to the health of the horse, no matter how strong he is (or appears to be!). I'm not saying that you have to be a skinny minnie to ride - I know quite a few riders who are overweight, but who are very well-mounted on horses who carry them easily. But there comes a point where a person is simply too heavy to ride, no matter how large or strong the horse. This isn't designed to be rude or offensive - it is said with the welfare of the horse in mind. But also, a person who is too heavy to ride simply isn't healthy. It's all very well saying "big is beautiful" and "real women have curves", but this is only true up to a point. Because obese isn't beautiful, it isn't good or healthy, and anyone who thinks it is has a seriously skewed perception of what people ought to look like! And once again, I'm not saying this to insult "larger" women.There is a huge difference between big and curvy and morbidly obese, in my opinion. And I don't think it should be okay to be rude to people or make them feel bad about themselves because they are overweight, but I don't see the point in lying to people making them think it is fine to be seriously overweight, because it's not, even if they don't ride. It works both ways - anorexia is not okay either!
Anyway, that's how I see it, although as I'm skinny and clearly not a real woman, I don't know if my opinion counts :p
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Totally agree.

I also have larger friends (one livery is 16+ stone) who are perfectly well mounted. However, there comes a point when there simply isn't a horse strong enough for you. Some of the ladies on the American thread have reached that point. End of!
 
I completely agree with Polotash and Hashrouge.

I am not a small, skinny person. I have struggled with my weight forever, and from a riding perspective this is compounded by the fact that I am naturally heavy as am reasonably tall and I have heavy bones and muscle and so whilst I look the couple of stone overweight I am, that really does make me pretty heavy. That isn't an excuse - I know where I need to aim for as I have been to the doctor/nutritionist to help me. I have big, well made horses and I'm careful with my saddle and tbh keeping weight down for riding is the big incentive I have to reduce rather than increase in size, as I do not want to have to buy FF products or think that I must stop riding. Currently having put some on again (work) I am dieting (again) and as usual its a slow and painful process but I am determined to get back to a size 16 from an 18. This may seem huge but even if you sucked all the fat out of my body (I wish) I wouldnt be less than a 14.

FWIW there is at least as much difference between a 16 and a 24 as there is between an 8 and a 16, but once you hit 16 its like you suddenly might as well be a 24. I'm sure most size 8s would be horrified to be bracketed with the size 16s, so how do you think people my size feel about being bracketed with the 24s?! And it goes the other way too to help support the attitude that its ok to be huge and seriously overweight - which it isn't, for all sorts of reasons including health.

I really struggle with my weight, its doubly hard when your self esteem is low as then you have no motivation, I really feel for billie here as i know what she means. If you are lucky enough to be naturally slim, then it is very difficult to comprehend this cycle. But, it does noone in my position any favours to say to us that its fine to continually expand, or to suggest that thin people are not "real" or attractive. For starters, that is patently untrue so that if you buy into it you are just kidding yourself.
 
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