Well this is a can of worms

[tallyho!]

Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.

The horse is definitely the decider I agree with that. What I have to disagree with here is that this 20% rule shouldn't be used as the 'limiter' whereby people who *could* weigh less use it as a buffer to hover at the horses max limit (people I know personally do this). I don't think thats fair considering the horse didn't evolve especially to be man's transport.

Why don't people who know they are overweight aim to be less than 20% instead of "as long as I stay 20% I'm ok". This isn't healthy for anybody, and I am not digging at you personally here but everyone who diets to ride.

We all know horses pushed to the limits break down and I'm not comparing the hard working horse to the 20min/day horse. However, why limit yourself to just 20mins of riding a day? You could be out there for hours. Using your good self as an example, you ride good, and have a good position and this is good for the horse so why have you only given yourself 20mins? The power is yours! Take it! Do what you have to do change this unfairness to yourself and be happy riding your horse all afternoon!

 

[joeanne]

but most of the plus sized riders I have met are like me and do everything in their power to ensure that their horse is happy and comfortable!

Except perhaps staying off said horse until they have achieved a weight that is acceptable for said horse to carry.

Justifying that the horse is sound, does not buck, and is happy does not actually make it right that you are placing more weight than it ought to carry.

 

[Tnavas]

To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I once was a stick insect - 7½stone at 25yrs old and 5'7" tall.

Your metabolism changes with age, work circumstances, the effects of injuries, Glandular Fever screwed mine up - and try as I might keeping the weight off is seriously hard.

I wonder how many of you that are preaching are smokers? Find it hard to give up and stop? It's like that for us too and we don't get the support that Smokers get in their quest for giving up.

I actually don't eat much at all - breakfast is a meal replacer but I metabolise any food I eat well therefore like my Clydesdale I keep weight on really easily.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.

 

[hessy12]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/314392.html


Fuller Fillies are now making saddles up to 22 inch seat. I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride.

When your arse sticks out wider than the horses, you know you have issues.

This made me laugh and laugh. Being a skinny I don't have any problems in this area thank goodness. However, surely if the horse is 'big enough' to carry said rider and has a wide enough back to take wide saddle, then what's the problem? Just MHO.

 

[Clava]

This made me laugh and laugh. Being a skinny I don't have any problems in this area thank goodness. However, surely if the horse is 'big enough' to carry said rider and has a wide enough back to take wide saddle, then what's the problem? Just MHO.

...the problem is the length of the saddle not the width.

 

[touchstone]

To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I once was a stick insect - 7½stone at 25yrs old and 5'7" tall.

Your metabolism changes with age, work circumstances, the effects of injuries, Glandular Fever screwed mine up - and try as I might keeping the weight off is seriously hard.

I wonder how many of you that are preaching are smokers? Find it hard to give up and stop? It's like that for us too and we don't get the support that Smokers get in their quest for giving up.

I actually don't eat much at all - breakfast is a meal replacer but I metabolise any food I eat well therefore like my Clydesdale I keep weight on really easily.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.

I don't think anyone has said that losing weight is easy, I'm 47 and have to admit that the days when I could eat what I wanted to are sadly gone, I have gone from a size 8-10 to 12-14 so I do understand how weight can creep on. My mum is also on high dose steroids, she initially gained some weight but has managed to actually lose weight and is down to a size 8. It is hard, but it is doable!

The issue isn't people being overweight, but inflicting that weight on horses who are not built for carrying the amounts of weight. If you want to ride badly enough then there should be no better incentive to lose weight, to simply accept that an individual is grossly overweight but is going to ride regardless because they want to while making no attempt to lose weight isn't fair on the horse imho.

 

[DH1]

Tnavas, as a 'stick insect' I am equally offended by your 'holier than thou' comments.

I am a 49 year old stick insect, I weigh the same now as I did when I was 17 years old. I've been through many different life changing events during the intervening years.

Maintaining this weight isn't a miracle, it's fairly simple really.
I put on a couple of pounds, eat healthily, and then lose said couple of pounds.

 

[FfionWinnie]

To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight - I so hope that one day you too suffer the increase in weight.

Because believe me for many of you it will sneak in and one dday you'll realise how hard it is to lose weight.

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy, holier than thouogh comments made on this thread.

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.

No doubt you are including me in that. I however wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I come from a family of morbidly obese people. Not my dad but my aunts especially. Their kids are morbidly obese. One of my aunts has to be a medical marvel being close to 70 and MO. I guess I could blame my genes if I was the same. I'm not fat nor do I follow diets. I can always tell when I'm getting heavier than I like and I start running. A physical job helps a lot. Won't deny that. I'm also lucky not to be on medications that could wreck havoc on my weight. But as far as the members of my family, maybe they don't choose to be MO, but they sure didn't choose to not be MO. All the help they've been given didn't make a difference because it was easier not make the changes. Maybe that sounds harsh but they've not made the effort to stay healthy. Staying somewhat healthy is an effort. Let's be honest, for most, not all, it is the effort of keeping moving and eating less. Diets are usually no good as it's not keeping weight off for good. It's an entire lifestyle.

As far as horses are concerned mine are probably at a disadvantage for carrying weight. I weigh 8 stone. Hubby is probably 12 stone. From a personal preference I wouldn't want much more on their backs as a constant. I know they could carry more but it's my choice.

Terri

 

[rhino]

To All you STICK INSECTS

I've been quite shocked at the bitchy comments made on this thread.

What, like yours? Again, it only seems to be 'bullying' if comments are made about overweight people. Hypocritical much?

A the saying goes - "What comes around goes around and hopefully will bite you hard on your increasingly expanding bum" then you too will know what it is like.

Well aren't you just a charmer!

To the earlier comment about trusting trainers - I only wish it were true. I can't think of many who would turn down custom by saying that a potential client was too overweight to ride.

 

[Mongoose11]

To All you STICK INSECTS that sit there and preach about us hevy peolpe losing weight.

I love how hypocritical this is. You are complaining about bitchy coments? Is calling someone a 'STICK INSECT' not the same as someone calling someone a 'fat bit*h'.

However miserable I am about my weight I certainly wouldn't want anyone to ever feel this sad. Not nice to wish misery on others. Did you really mean that?

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

The obesity epidemic and peoples difficulty losing weight is not just about eating to much and doing too little it is far more complex than that. Our entire culture has created the situation we now find ourselves in and by perpetuating the myth that it is the individuals fault is not going to change it one iota.
The food industry etc. are only perpetuating the situation in order to keep the money flowing. Food is more addictive than ever, what we eat is more processed full of salt and sugar, portions are bigger, snacking has increased, cloth sizes have got bigger, the diet advice is mostly rubbish and everything is made so much easier and more comfortable for us.
Just telling people to eat less and do more is not going to help the individual or change the way the tide is going. The current generation is obese and yet malnourished!

 

[Tnavas]

Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon.

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much!

Life is not fun for us - travelling on public transport is a nightmare as the seats are built for skinnies. I haven't been back to UK for many years because the journey in the cramped area is too uncomfortable and I don't have the money to travel business class. I miss my mum and would love to be able to see her as she is really getting on in years.

So before you judge you need to know the history.

 

[Big Ben]

Maintaining this weight isn't a miracle, it's fairly simple really.
I put on a couple of pounds, eat healthily, and then lose said couple of pounds.

No NO NO NO

If it were simple then there would be no (or very few fat people)

For some people it is that simple, but not for all of us.

I look out of my window at 3 horses who have been kept together all summer, Ben is at a good weight, Emmy is FAT, Willow is just about right, if I still had the Haflingers and they were out there they would be obese.

We are all quite happy talking about easy keepers and hard keepers when we are talking horses, but can't make the leap that realizes that the same is largely true of people.

FACT 1.

I am built like a draft horse, and that has nothing to do with the fat that I carry, I am solid, hairy, even when I'm slim I have size 9 (UK) feet. That is not a "poor me" or anything else, it is a fact, I am not delicate.

Fact 2

I am a marvel of millions of years of evolution, come the famine I will survive a lot longer than all of the 'naturally skinny' because I get full value out of each and every calorie that I eat.

So no it is not simple, you have no idea what level I have to eat and exercise at to lose weight, same as I have no idea what my very skinny friend has to go through to maintain weight, or try and gain. I am constantly amazed at how much she eats, same as she is at how little I eat.


Yes of course when it comes down to it the responsibility for what we eat ad how much we exercise is down to each of us, and I'm not asking anyone to condone my fatness, just asking that same as our horses, one diet, one regime will not produce the same results for all.

 

[joeanne]

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon.

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much!

If you are putting on weight, I would offer the suggestion that you are eating more calories than your body needs.
Yes some drugs WILL make you put weight on, but you can CHOOSE to not inflict that excess weight on a horse.

I quit smoking, I gained a couple of stone. I am losing it buy not eating junk, eating sensibly (read that as no cakes, sweets,sugar) and exercising.
Simple as.
And I would also offer the suggestion YOUR idea of a "good meal" and mine are poles apart!

 

[Mongoose11]

Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon.

I've battled depression for many years - the medication I've been on has contributed to my weight gain. We aren't all overweight because we eat too much!

Life is not fun for us - travelling on public transport is a nightmare as the seats are built for skinnies. I haven't been back to UK for many years because the journey in the cramped area is too uncomfortable and I don't have the money to travel business class. I miss my mum and would love to be able to see her as she is really getting on in years.

So before you judge you need to know the history.

Joke's on you Tnavas. If you bothered to read the thread you would find out that I am morbidly obese and have just made the decision to stop riding my mare as I am almost at the 20% figure. So I definitely know what it is like to be 'cuddly' although I prefer the term morbidly obese.

Oh and I definitely got to 17 stone by eating too much. My depression is a by product/stimulus all rolled into one but the weight is definitely due to stuffing my face. What a rose tinted world you live in. Check out my original post around page 40-42 if you want to find out my credentials

I have managed to put across both sides of the story without insulting anyone or name calling....

 

[Wagtail]

No NO NO NO

If it were simple then there would be no (or very few fat people)

For some people it is that simple, but not for all of us.

I look out of my window at 3 horses who have been kept together all summer, Ben is at a good weight, Emmy is FAT, Willow is just about right, if I still had the Haflingers and they were out there they would be obese.

We are all quite happy talking about easy keepers and hard keepers when we are talking horses, but can't make the leap that realizes that the same is largely true of people. They are also much faster eaters!

Regarding animals, I have two jack russell terriers who are full sisters out of the same litter. One is fat, the other is thin. The difference? The fat one is there the second she hears anyone open any food packet. She begs and begs for food constantly. Her sister can take it or leave it. She is more active. Sometimes she doesn't want her dinner.

I have seven horses here. Four are easy to keep trim, three are very difficult to keep trim. The good doers are FAR more food oriented than the poorer doers.

 

[rhino]

Well Rhino and Billie1007 - you make me laugh - now you see what it is like when people make snide comments about your weight! You don't like it any more than we do.

It's sociably acceptable to look like you need a decent meal but for us cuddlies we are frowned upon.


So before you judge you need to know the history.

Stupid little comments and names like the ones you used don't bother me in the slightest - just pointing out the hypocrisy as you seem to have a difficulty in registering the concept.

I would also disagree that it is sociably (do you mean socially perhaps? Or societally?) acceptable to look like you need a decent meal.

I've never judged someone because of their weight. Unlike others

 

[Littlelegs]

It's all very well talking about 'grey' areas, but where animals are concerned I always err on the side of caution. Whether that's rider weight, ill health, living conditions, pts or anything, they don't have a voice to tell us when they've reached their limits. Therefore if we claim to be animal lovers, we shouldn't be trying to find those limits, instead staying well within what we definitely know they can manage.
Tbh, stick insect etc doesn't actually bother me, what's amusing is the hypocrisy. At least my disgust is only for those riding horses incapable of carrying them, not general insults aimed at anyone who struggles with their weight.

 

[Wagtail]

A while back I made a post about a medical condition I have which means that I am nauseous for much of the day and found it hard to eat. Not surprisingly I was pretty skinny. The pills I have been put on have given me a ravenous appetite for carbs and sugar. For the first time in my life I could appreciate what it must be like for people who have a problem with their weight due to over eating. I literally could not stop. I piled on the weight and could not fit into my jods and for the first time in my life had rolls of fat. I hated it. Tried to come off the tablets only to find my nausea was worse, so I'm stuck with them, probably for life. I knew I had to put a stop to the weight gain. I knew I could not resist carbs and sweet stuff if it was in the house. My solution was to only buy food online and not order anything that was unhealthy and fattening. Today I went into a supermarket for the first time in 6 months. It was SO hard not to buy chocolates and biscuits. It almost hurt. But I resisted, until I got to the till and then grabbed a bag of skittles. Well it could have been worse!

 

[Big Ben]

Regarding animals, I have two jack russell terriers who are full sisters out of the same litter. One is fat, the other is thin. The difference? The fat one is there the second she hears anyone open any food packet. She begs and begs for food constantly. Her sister can take it or leave it. She is more active. Sometimes she doesn't want her dinner.

I have seven horses here. Four are easy to keep trim, three are very difficult to keep trim. The good doers are FAR more food oriented than the poorer doers.

Funny that, without the power of advertising, without the variety of cakes cookies, crisps, fried food etc etc, some animals struggle with their weight, and they need someone to control their portion sizes, make them exercise, like errr naturally fat and needing help?

 

[Flame_]

How can it be a choice? Who would choose to become morbidly obese? Obesity is a complex problem with many contributing factors, including the easy availability of fast food you can choose a low fat, low calorie option, even McD's print their nutritional information now, inability to cook a meal you can choose to read recipe books, go to cookery classes, order diet chef, not having time to cook a meal you can eat raw carrots and fruit, medical conditions these don't cause fat in themselves, they just mean you need to be even more aware of what you can be eating and/or not give in to increased appetite, emotional eating you can choose to go for councelling, etc.

It is a problem with many solutions and you can choose to commit to finding the appropriate one or ones or you can choose to sit and say "well I've got a problem and there's nothing I can do about it", which, with obesity is simply not true.

The overweight posters on this thread are clearly made of strong stuff and I'm sure they know beating this problem is within their capabilities and its only a matter of time and finding the right approach before they are the weight they want to be.

 

[Wagtail]

Funny that, without the power of advertising, without the variety of cakes cookies, crisps, fried food etc etc, some animals struggle with their weight, and they need someone to control their portion sizes, make them exercise, like errr naturally fat and needing help?

Yes, exactly. It is behavioural, not down to genes or glands or anything else. Some people are foodies, some animals are foodies. We have to find a way that works to control it. I am not kidding, I would be enormous by now had I not taken control. I can no longer be trusted in a supermarket. I have to order online.

 

[Natch]

Choice is good. I think a person needs to have to really want to lose weight, they have to CHOOSE to do so, to be successful. But to simplify it into a simple choice is to overly simplify it. People don't choose to be fat. They react to emotions, addictions, habits etc and getting fat is a byproduct. I read diet2ride's blog with sadness. I see someone who desperately wants to be slim but hasn't been armed with the right tools to do so, and hasn't really uncovered the reason why she overeats. Personally, I am overweight and on my own journey. I wish I had the answers but I expect they are unique to each individual, and certainly run both just as shallow, and much deeper than 'choose not to eat that'.

I couldn't support inflicting it on a horse though.

 

[TigerTail]

.

I am built like a draft horse, and that has nothing to do with the fat that I carry, I am solid, hairy, even when I'm slim I have size 9 (UK) feet. That is not a "poor me" or anything else, it is a fact, I am not delicate.

The Big Boned thing really doesnt wash. No not everything is as simple as eat less move more, often because by the time people have realised they need to lose weight they're past that more simple stage.
However it is still you putting the food in your mouth - no one else.

And what on earth is the ''us cuddlies'' bit about?!?!?! Does that make it acceptable in your head to be putting your body under unnecessary strain? Or to be burdening the NHS? Bus seats are not made for ''skinnies'' theyre made for average You seem to think the world owes you something just because you got yourself fat?!

 

[touchstone]

Hmm, I thought that there was scientific evidence that there was a fat gene?

In defence of some of the overweight posters I genuinely believe it can be harder for some people to lose weight, some who call themselves 'big boned' are simply a naturally heavier build.

An insulin resistant pony will often have a ravenous appetite and I suspect that will also be true in humans.

While it might be easier for some to lose weight, it is worth considering that it can be harder for others, although diet and exercise is still the key.

 

[Mongoose11]

Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?

 

[rhino]

Right my new life in the aim to be a fitter, lighter, better rider begins now. Does anyone think thay have it in them to offer advice, motivation and strict ar*e kicking team talks?

Who's with me?

Oh God, did I mention I have a place to run the London Marathon in April?

Ooh well done you! I can probably help with running tips, as I'm a qualified athletics coach, but would be worse than useless with diet tips!

There is a diet 'sticky' in soapbox with lots of ideas I think - or maybe pm Armas as he deals with weight loss professionally

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

Hmm, I thought that there was scientific evidence that there was a fat gene?

In defence of some of the overweight posters I genuinely believe it can be harder for some people to lose weight, some who call themselves 'big boned' are simply a naturally heavier build.

An insulin resistant pony will often have a ravenous appetite and I suspect that will also be true in humans.

While it might be easier for some to lose weight, it is worth considering that it can be harder for others, although diet and exercise is still the key.

There is a fat gene but it doesn't necessarily mean you will be fat (I think Trinny and Susanna are an example of this).

Apart from that I agree completely. Exercising is hard if you are obese and many people do not know the best ways to exercise in order to lose weight best.

Eating less is not the answer either in such minimal terms it has to be a lifestyle diet change and the 'healthy' diets trooped out by the government are not necessarily the best for weight-loss. Cutting calories will probably just leave you hungry and craving food constantly, a recipe for disaster. I lived on just chocolate chewing gum and coffee for a while and yes I lost weight and ate less but was it good for my health? Was I malnourished and ill... yes!

Poor education is one of the problems.

 

[Mongoose11]

Armas has already been very kind - what a good guy!

Rhino, I am out of breath walking at the moment - can it be done? I accepted a place in July. Thinking 'I can do this' I then very promptly broke my foot, put on nearly two stone and am worse than when I started