What are they using to get the necks?!

[fetlock]

Fillers used for cosmetic surgery are freely available on the internet. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the showing folk who think nothing of over feeding, dehydration as a calmer, drilling of ponies by over size adults as a warmup, etc would also think nothing of injecting human lip fillers into the neck of a show pony if they thought it would get them higher up the line.
.

With the amount that you'd need to fill a neck, it would be far less expensive (and far less bother) just to buy yourself the reigning champion instead.

 

[Cam Eq]

Completely agr

I disagree with the comments about correct work producing a crest. How many top level dressage horses do you see with the huge crests you see in the showing world? Yes they are well muscles but not a crest of FAT you see in showing. Most show horses don’t work over the back or core, which you see at the tack strip and are simply pulled into a false outline. Every show horse I’ve ever seen has been at least overweight, most are grossly obese. Ming you it’s been like that for year, it’s just more horses are fat now so it seem less extreme to people. There are people who show that have fit and happy horses but unfortunately the fat horses are rewarded and that’s what we see in the press like the article linked. I saw the pony showing at Windsor a few years ago and that was just as bad. I agree with a previous comment about most show hunters not being able to hunt for 10 minutes. Let alone 5+ hours.

As others have said OP, over feeding is really the only way to obtain an hard solid crest of the size you are thinking of. There are undoubtedly more unhanded practises but you get that in every horse sport and people will do anything to win.

Interestingly I wonder if the BSHA will be reviewing their turnout expectation re trimming of facial hair. Amateurs are far less likely to give showing a go locally if they also do BD now you cannot trim facial hair. Serious showers are unlikely to care as that’s their main sport.

I disagree with the comments about correct work producing a crest. How many top level dressage horses do you see with the huge crests you see in the showing world? Yes they are well muscles but not a crest of FAT you see in showing. Most show horses don’t work over the back or core, which you see at the tack strip and are simply pulled into a false outline. Every show horse I’ve ever seen has been at least overweight, most are grossly obese. Ming you it’s been like that for year, it’s just more horses are fat now so it seem less extreme to people. There are people who show that have fit and happy horses but unfortunately the fat horses are rewarded and that’s what we see in the press like the article linked. I saw the pony showing at Windsor a few years ago and that was just as bad. I agree with a previous comment about most show hunters not being able to hunt for 10 minutes. Let alone 5+ hours.

As others have said OP, over feeding is really the only way to obtain an hard solid crest of the size you are thinking of. There are undoubtedly more unhanded practises but you get that in every horse sport and people will do anything to win.

Interestingly I wonder if the BSHA will be reviewing their turnout expectation re trimming of facial hair. Amateurs are far less likely to give showing a go locally if they also do BD now you cannot trim facial hair. Serious showers are unlikely to care as that’s their main sport.

Completely agree with this. But Some GP dressage horses do have these necks (Totilas did).

 

[Cam Eq]

Well, yes it can.

How can a 4 year old who has not even been elevated or collected yet (and won’t be for years) have a neck of a horse that has? I don’t expect my novice horses to do anything difficult enough to get necks like that. Yes, they will build a certain amount of top line but not to this standard

 

[milliepops]

I think some horses naturally have bigger necks than others, my ex racer has been out of work since the summer and has a decent topline including the neck of a pretty average dressage horse. He just is that shape.

My Welsh is unfit and just coming back into work, her topline is not as strong as normal but her neck is huge anyway, she is just one of those super muscular types.

 

[Ellibelli]

Wasn't there some scandal years ago about young horses being bought at the Dublin Horse Show seemingly beautifully muscled up and subsequently losing the muscle in their new homes and it was implied they had been given steroids? I can't remember the details or if it was found to be true, but I'm sure there was an article in H&H about it?

 

[AdorableAlice]

How can a 4 year old who has not even been elevated or collected yet (and won’t be for years) have a neck of a horse that has? I don’t expect my novice horses to do anything difficult enough to get necks like that. Yes, they will build a certain amount of top line but not to this standard

Neck shape is breed specific and you will see certain breeds, even at a young age carrying a substantial neck and muscle. Elevation is a term used for paces and cadence as is collection. Perhaps a picture of the horse you seem so concerned about would help us understand what you are trying to discuss ? I think you would be concerned about 3 of my horses, they all carry substantial necks and none are fat. They all do miles of road work on the bridle and climb plenty of hills.

 

[Leandy]

Some horses carry more crest than others (both male and female). They are just selecting for the correct outline for showing. Just because some horses naturally have ewe or weak necks does not mean that those that are naturally well endowed in the neck department are somehow artificially assisted. Horses come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[brighteyes]

Obesity in show horses is one of the biggest welfare issues out there - not helped by the likes of H&H printing photos of grossly overweight animals and using showing producers as columnists.

I have a very smart cob mare, who I know would do well in the show ring if I pumped her full of food, but I'd rather she was fit, lean and healthy and never saw a cob class in her life.

How much do I love this post.

 

[brighteyes]

Showing is just meh,really nasty it has not a place in the modern world .
I don’t think you need to use steroid to get horses looking huge and cresty but I would not be very surprised to hear it’s been done .
Maxi cob classes are fully of dangerously obese horses , if you say that you may be told that you don’t understand about show condition , if I don’t I am glad .
It’s very hard work to keep cobs ID’s and the like slim they are work horses bred to toil hours a day they need little food because they did not breed in the past from poor doing mares .

Yep, they are just fools. Ignorant and unenlightenable fools to whom ribbons and pictures in H&H mean everything. The welfare of these whales and hippos means zero to them. I know of a beautiful 4YO (with a 'guaranteed win' at HOYS, under a well-known face) be PTS due to laminitis after being given steroids for windgalls. In show condition at 4. Every last bit of that should make you weep. I am still seething many years later as I knew her as a foal.

 

[Cam Eq]

Neck shape is breed specific and you will see certain breeds, even at a young age carrying a substantial neck and muscle. Elevation is a term used for paces and cadence as is collection. Perhaps a picture of the horse you seem so concerned about would help us understand what you are trying to discuss ? I think you would be concerned about 3 of my horses, they all carry substantial necks and none are fat. They all do miles of road work on the bridle and climb plenty of hills.[/QUOT
I can’t add photos of these horses because they are not mine but I will add photos showing what I mean

 

[brighteyes]

I absolutely disagree. I was very good friends several years ago with someone who had considerable success in the show ring. The horses were kept and produced beautifully- not a side rein or a risk of laminitis through obesity to be seen anywhere.

Just because some practices are abhorrent, don’t tar everyone with the same brush.

Name names then.

 

[AmyMay]

Name names then.

Um, no....

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The one in my Avatar (the black one on the right) was naturally very cresty looking though not overweight. He is a very big built horse (around 17.3 and plenty of bone) and Draft X - he was gelded late and always has this neck no matter what weight he is carrying at any time of year.

I also hate the force fed fat obese monstrosities that are generally accepted as nice show cobs. Nothing less than animal abuse IMO - that is abusing the animal as much as starving it, I think anyway.

 

[Cam Eq]

Ok, I am adding photos so that everyone can see exactly what I mean as I think there’s some confusion.
First of all I know of one horse as an example who went from having a neck similar to photo 2 at four years old to photo 1 at six. He was average weight, not underweight, and had been castarated years before. Two years later he had a neck like photo 1. That is NOT naturally possible as far as I’m concerned. He was again average weight possibly a small bit overweight. In addition to the complete change he had bubble like pads along the sides of his neck. I have then noticed other horses with similar necks and “pads” and wondered was it some common knowledge in the showing world that gave these necks that I was not familiar with.

 

[Rowreach]

I fail to understand how anyone can defend the monstrosities we see in the show ring and on the pages of H&H, and suggest that these horses are produced “correctly” ?

 

[conniegirl]

That is perfectly possible to do with a horse who is worked correctly and fed correctly, particularly with a young horse who will be changing and muscling up anyway.
This is the transformation in my lad in 3 months!


Eta, and no he isn’t fat, he was very very fit, very well muscled and put together properly

 

[Rowreach]

That is perfectly possible to do with a horse who is worked correctly and fed correctly, particularly with a young horse who will be changing and muscling up anyway.
This is the transformation in my lad in 3 months!
View attachment 69250View attachment 69249View attachment 69248

Eta, and no he isn’t fat, he was very very fit, very well muscled and put together properly

But this isn’t what we are talking about.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I fail to understand how anyone can defend the monstrosities we see in the show ring and on the pages of H&H, and suggest that these horses are produced “correctly” ?

I worship the ground my monstrosity walks on and believe it or not he was produced correctly, and yes he graced the pages of horse and hound on a regular basis, not quite so regularly as the chestnut horse though. Medium dressage horse in his spare time. Stallion until he was 8 with progeny in Europe. I've yet to have him called a monstrosity but feel free if you wish, he won't mind.

 

[shortstuff99]

Ok, I am adding photos so that everyone can see exactly what I mean as I think there’s some confusion.
First of all I know of one horse as an example who went from having a neck similar to photo 2 at four years old to photo 1 at six. He was average weight, not underweight, and had been castarated years before. Two years later he had a neck like photo 1. That is NOT naturally possible as far as I’m concerned. He was again average weight possibly a small bit overweight. In addition to the complete change he had bubble like pads along the sides of his neck. I have then noticed other horses with similar necks and “pads” and wondered was it some common knowledge in the showing world that gave these necks that I was not familiar with.

That horse on the left looks Iberian, they have very naturally cresty necks. I don't do showing and my Iberians have large necks naturally.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Adorable Alice I do not think anyone on this thread is referring to the type of horse that bay is in your picture? To me (very ignorant and in no position to judge the elite of the showing world I can assure you of that lol!) that looks to me like a nicely put together sort, not overweight or over cresty, and a million miles from the sort of over fat, abused show horse or pony that I am talking about. I cannot speak for others on this thread. And that beautiful horse is a million miles away from what I would consider or name a monstrosity.

 

[Rowreach]

Adorable Alice I do not think anyone on this thread is referring to the type of horse that bay is in your picture? To me (very ignorant and in no position to judge the elite of the showing world I can assure you of that lol!) that looks to me like a nicely put together sort, not overweight or over cresty, and a million miles from the sort of over fat, abused show horse or pony that I am talking about. I cannot speak for others on this thread. And that beautiful horse is a million miles away from what I would consider or name a monstrosity.

As I’ve said up thread, I think people are being overly sensitive when it isn’t actually their horses that are under discussion.

 

[Cam Eq]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27732767/

 

[conniegirl]

But this isn’t what we are talking about.

How is it not? If I (an amateur who works full time in an office) can make such a huge difference in a horse in 3 months then the other transformation is completely possible in 2 years particularly in a young horse who has the propensity to be cresty. Just because it had no crest when it is very poor does not mean it isn’t built to be cresty.

As I’ve said up thread, I think people are being overly sensitive when it isn’t actually their horses that are under discussion.

Thing is it is our horses under discussion as some on here have tarred all of us who show with the same brush, decided that we all torture our horses by overfeeding, underworking and strapping heads down. Some like AA have had horses win at top top level, others like myself own horses/ponies who have won at that level in the past and definitely were not fat at the time.
Heck my current lad is 20 years old, has had no work since september at all, is currently a bit ribby (i like them coming into spring a bit ribby if they are not in work) and still has a massive neck - he’s welsh and late cut, its to be expected

 

[AdorableAlice]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27732767/

Assuming you compete Cam Eq, do you understand dope testing and the implications of using banned substances ? You seem to have a poor view of competition horses. If you have concerns or evidence of wrong doing why not bring to the attention of the relevant authorities rather than this forum where you suggesting everyone is abusing horses.

Vets and breed societies are actively working towards having healthy fit horses in all arenas of horse sport. If you are a judge, why not use your position to place gross horses down the line, if you are a producer or breeder, use your standards to produce a fit horse. I suspect you are neither, but look forward to being corrected.

 

[DabDab]

I don't know how to say this without it possibly being taken the wrong way, but I wouldn't describe the horses in any of the pics you have posted as having a big neck CG (except possibly the Welsh).

 

[Rowreach]

I used to do quite a bit of judging. I was very unpopular because I judged the horse and not the producer.

 

[Cortez]

How can a 4 year old who has not even been elevated or collected yet (and won’t be for years) have a neck of a horse that has? I don’t expect my novice horses to do anything difficult enough to get necks like that. Yes, they will build a certain amount of top line but not to this standard

What you do with your horses is up to you, but I'm quite happy to work a mature 4 year old in early collection if he's built that way. The pictures you have posted don't look like 4 year old (the grey is almost certainly a PRE, and older, also not fat). I have had many horses with massive crests naturally, but then they are built that way. I can't abide fat horses.

 

[Cam Eq]

What you do with your horses is up to you, but I'm quite happy to work a mature 4 year old in early collection if he's built that way. The pictures you have posted don't look like 4 year old (the grey is almost certainly a PRE, and older, also not fat). I have had many horses with massive crests naturally, but then they are built that way. I can't abide fat horses.

Yes it’s probably a PRE but it’s just an example ?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Yes it’s probably a PRE but it’s just an example ?

Posting a pic of a PRE when your original comment, later confirmed is that you're commenting on Connemaras is completely unrelated.

 

[Cam Eq]

Assuming you compete Cam Eq, do you understand dope testing and the implications of using banned substances ? You seem to have a poor view of competition horses. If you have concerns or evidence of wrong doing why not bring to the attention of the relevant authorities rather than this forum where you suggesting everyone is abusing horses.

Vets and breed societies are actively working towards having healthy fit horses in all arenas of horse sport. If you are a judge, why not use your position to place gross horses down the line, if you are a producer or breeder, use your standards to produce a fit horse. I suspect you are neither, but look forward to being corrected.

There is no need to be so narrow minded and to completely judge someone whom you have never met. I in fact produce horses professionally, breed and compete top showing horses and am training as a judge as well as having a veterinary degree. I came to this forum for some advice and not to receive such nastiness from someone I didn’t even ask to comment.