* TEAM SAM *
Well-Known Member
what color would you put this as on passport she is very similar to this
http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/page18.html
http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/page18.html
what colour is this ?
- Thread starter * TEAM SAM *
- Start date
ester
Not slacking multitasking
buckskin
* TEAM SAM *
Well-Known Member
im confused when you google buckskin it brings up really bright duns x
ester
Not slacking multitasking
well they come in a range of colours - she might have another modifier (like sooty) but for passport purposes and without the genetics I would keep it simple.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
Slightly mouldy brownish cream 
* TEAM SAM *
Well-Known Member
Slightly mouldy brownish cream
HAHAH that will look nice on passport advert mouldy horse for sale !
Amaranta
Well-Known Member
Sooty Buckskin, deffo not dun as the dun gene does not appear in the Connie
* TEAM SAM *
Well-Known Member
Thank you facts thats what im asking for stange how thats a full bred conni and it says dark dun .... sooty buckskin sounds about right
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Although they are technically buckskin, not dun, Connemaras within this range of colours are traditionally referred to as dun. The horse in the pics is what is know over here as a "biscuit" dun.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Thank you facts thats what im asking for stange how thats a full bred conni and it says dark dun .... sooty buckskin sounds about right
the oirish haven't caught up with colours yet
* TEAM SAM *
Well-Known Member
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
People need to get with the times! Now we can DNA test for the genes that cause different colours Buckskin and Dun do need to be identified properly and 'traditional' outdated terms need to fall out of use.
What is the point of having a passport with the wrong colour on it?
If the pony was passported as dun, then stolen and the 'new owner' DNA'd it as buckskin - they could actually use that as evidence that it wasn't the same pony as the stolen one as it doesn't have the dun gene, so how could it possibly be the stolen dun pony?
I'm not being overdramatic either. Read the thread about Brujo who has been stolen while on loan (on Arabianlines) and you will see how devious thieves can be (OK - this case is nothing to do with colour - but it highlights how the owner needs everything correct on their side).
The colour on the passport must match the genes.
What is the point of having a passport with the wrong colour on it?
If the pony was passported as dun, then stolen and the 'new owner' DNA'd it as buckskin - they could actually use that as evidence that it wasn't the same pony as the stolen one as it doesn't have the dun gene, so how could it possibly be the stolen dun pony?
I'm not being overdramatic either. Read the thread about Brujo who has been stolen while on loan (on Arabianlines) and you will see how devious thieves can be (OK - this case is nothing to do with colour - but it highlights how the owner needs everything correct on their side).
The colour on the passport must match the genes.
goldenretrieverfan
Member
I'm sure your horse would have lots of interest if you wrote that
goldenretrieverfan
Member
As in the mouldy horse colour, sorry I'm new
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Say it as you see it
No need to apologise, you are right, it IS a mouldy colour.I have one that looks the identical colour, she is registered as buckskin (no dorsal line or barring)
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Look at that mane!
WelshD
Well-Known Member
Not argueing with you as I agree people should be careful but surely Dun would suffice?
After all there are plenty of passported greys who are white or whose markings have vanished as they greyed out
To go one step further there are grey ponies born chestnut that are passported as grey but what happens if they are stolen before they grey out?
Passports are pretty useless anyway and considering this OP was debating whether to roughly guess the height of the pony potentially to be a couple of inches or more out I think the colour should possibly be the least of their worries!
LittleBlackMule
Well-Known Member
Not wishing to sound pedantic, but if it doesn't have a dorsal stripe, it is NOT dun.
doriangrey
Well-Known Member
I came across this site before, when there was another thread about colour (and it came up that the Connemara did not have the dun gene). On the home page (at the bottom) the owner explains that they are not technically dun but buckskin. I do think, imo, proper terms should be used now.
http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/index.html
http://www.tawnydunstud.co.uk/index.html
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don't think dun does suffice anymore no, we know too much about colours now.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Passporting a grey as chestnut (the colour it was born before it greyed out - not all greys are chestnut based though) is not the same thing as passporting a buckskin as a dun. The chestnut/grey will still be genetically chestnut and markings will still show on the skin.
The buckskin does not have a dun gene. So no, 'dun' wont suffice. It's just as inaccurate as calling a Red/chestnut dun a palomino (exactly the same genes involved, just on a chestnut base).
Most PIO's will happily update a chestnut/grey's colour as it's well known that greys are not born grey, so it's easy to not identify the grey gene when they are young.
I agree that passport are pretty useless, but instead of just saying 'oh well they're all inaccurate anyway' why don't the PIO's start doing them properly? My AHS passports have DNA tested my horses to check that they match up with the parents stated in the breeding. As the DNA tests become cheaper - surely the faults in passports can be sorted?
The buckskin does not have a dun gene. So no, 'dun' wont suffice. It's just as inaccurate as calling a Red/chestnut dun a palomino (exactly the same genes involved, just on a chestnut base).
Most PIO's will happily update a chestnut/grey's colour as it's well known that greys are not born grey, so it's easy to not identify the grey gene when they are young.
I agree that passport are pretty useless, but instead of just saying 'oh well they're all inaccurate anyway' why don't the PIO's start doing them properly? My AHS passports have DNA tested my horses to check that they match up with the parents stated in the breeding. As the DNA tests become cheaper - surely the faults in passports can be sorted?
WelshD
Well-Known Member
Fair comments
Interesting that there are far more variations in paint yet we still describe cars as blue rather than 'metalic ocean view' - the VIN number tells us that the log book and car matches
Surely the microchip will do the same for horses?
99% of people looking at that pony would call it a dun, it may not be genetically correct but unless the person checking the passport is going to double check they would just pass it with no question. Dont get me wrong, its lovely to know what your horse is but I honestly think that all of these colour names are just plain confusing sometimes!
Yes we should move with the times but surely a microchip is pretty conclusive!
Interesting that there are far more variations in paint yet we still describe cars as blue rather than 'metalic ocean view' - the VIN number tells us that the log book and car matches
Surely the microchip will do the same for horses?
99% of people looking at that pony would call it a dun, it may not be genetically correct but unless the person checking the passport is going to double check they would just pass it with no question. Dont get me wrong, its lovely to know what your horse is but I honestly think that all of these colour names are just plain confusing sometimes!
Yes we should move with the times but surely a microchip is pretty conclusive!
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
How on earth can being accurate ever be wrong? Is ignorance ever an excuse for being inaccurate on official identification documents?
I personally think a DNA test along with microchip is the way forwards (plus education). Microchips can migrate and get 'lost' but identification via DNA is irrefutable. Horses don't often have twins, so it would be very rare to have identical twins and thus two horses with the same DNA.
I personally think a DNA test along with microchip is the way forwards (plus education). Microchips can migrate and get 'lost' but identification via DNA is irrefutable. Horses don't often have twins, so it would be very rare to have identical twins and thus two horses with the same DNA.
oldie48
Well-Known Member
Hi sorry to contradict you but this is dun and actually it's a very common colour in connemaras. We used to have a reg Con mare by the famous con stallion, Templebready Fear Bui and she was this colour. In Ireland they would definitely call their connies dun rather than buckskin or whatever!
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Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Sorry oldie, but DNA tests have shown the Connys have the Cream gene and not the Dun gene. Therefore all the 'Dun' Connemaras throughout the entire history of the breed were Buckskins.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Completely agree with this. In fact it irritates me how many people still refer to buckskin as 'dun'.
Wagtail
Horse servant
There is a separate gene for grey, no matter what colour the horse looks, if it is going to grey out and eventually go white it will have the grey gene.
oldie48
Well-Known Member
Well call me old fashioned but if Dun is good enough for the Irish, then it's good enough for me. i can't see any of the Irish studs calling their ponies Buckskin. Fab colour though, doesn't show the mud and connies of this colour are known for their hardiness. Lovely breed altogether!
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
Buckskin
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Black + Dun
Bay + Dun
Chestnut + Dun
Black + Cream
Bay + Cream
Bay + Cream + Sooty (they can be darker or lighter than this)
Chestnut + Cream
Bay + Dun
Chestnut + Dun
Black + Cream
Bay + Cream
Bay + Cream + Sooty (they can be darker or lighter than this)
Chestnut + Cream