what colour is this ?

[marmalade76]

As Faracat has mentioned, DNA tests have moved on. It's simply the fact that not everyone seems to get that what used to be known as a 'dun' is actually a buckskin so people continue to use the incorrect terminology.

Says who?? Who was it that decided that dun could keep that name and what we've been calling a dun for many years should be called a buckskin?? Buckskin is a vile word and I will never use it, couldn't they have come up with something better? I'm with Oldie on this one, the Irish still use it and so will I

 

[Alphamare]

Can Arabs come in seal brown? I had a mare who had that muzzle and similar lighter patches around her elbows and flanks.

I have a buckskin who goes very bay looking with his winter coat but it still has a yellow tinge.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Marmalade - stop being a stick in the mud! :devilish:

Alphamare - yes, you can get seal brown arabs.

 

[oldie48]

btw Oldie, your horse is stunning

Thank you, he's not the easiest though and I've had some testing times with him but thankfully it's all come good and he has a home for life.

 

[s4sugar]

Says who?? Who was it that decided that dun could keep that name and what we've been calling a dun for many years should be called a buckskin?? Buckskin is a vile word and I will never use it, couldn't they have come up with something better? I'm with Oldie on this one, the Irish still use it and so will I

So call the buckskin a cream bay which is still genetically correct. Calling it dun is not.

 

[DabDab]

Says who?? Who was it that decided that dun could keep that name and what we've been calling a dun for many years should be called a buckskin?? Buckskin is a vile word and I will never use it, couldn't they have come up with something better? I'm with Oldie on this one, the Irish still use it and so will I

The people that discovered it probably......I guess they weren't Irish. And if we are going down that route - why chestnut and not ginger, or blonde instead of Palamino, and surely the term 'coloured' can't be pc any more. And why do we have to have different terms for white and grey horses, why aren't we allowed to describe them all as white?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

White horses (eg maximum sabinos) have pink skin and are born that way. Greys are born a colour, have black skin and slowly grey out over time.

I do agree though that some of the terms used to describe colours could be better. Pallys should really be called 'Barbie' colour don't you think?

 

[DabDab]

White horses (eg maximum sabinos) have pink skin and are born that way. Greys are born a colour, have black skin and slowly grey out over time.

I was being facetious

Just pointing out that many things are ridiculous if you think about them long enough. To non horsey people explaining that that white horse over there is actually grey, whereas that one over there you can call white seems daft - 'If I see a white horse why can't I call it white, what does it matter' is very similar to 'If I see a Dun horse why can't I call it Dun, what does it matter'

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry I read your post with the wrong tone of voice in my head!

Why don't we breed out all the modifiers and dilution genes, or just get rid of them with a bit of genetic engineering - then we'd just have black and chestnut and no white markings at all. Simple and easy.

However model horse people would hate a simple colour system - they seem to revel in painting the rarest, most complicated coat colour and pattern.

Ah well, you can't keep everyone happy... black and chestnut only, seems the best way forward to me.

 

[DabDab]

Me too, we'll start the campaign

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Considering how well GM food has gone down - I can't see a problem with GM horses/ponies can you?

Lets get some posters made up.

 

[Cortez]

Why not do what the cowboys do, and call it a "lineback or listback" when it's a dun.

 

[doriangrey]

I find colour genetics fascinating but I struggle with it a bit because it is so mathematical. I actually kind of agree with S4sugar in a way because the phenotype doesn't always agree with the genotype (I think that's right!). Anyway, I found this wonderful site which is based on the Morgan horse (lovely horse the Morgan), there are lots of examples and pictures and I find that as it's one breed only it even makes it easier for me to understand, plus their records are excellent. Funnily enough, they have had the same sort of dun conundrum that is happening in the Welsh breed at the moment and they go into it in quite a lot of detail. I especially admire the people on here that understand colour genetics (Faracat, I don't know how you do it!), would dna testing at the time of microchip be the way to go? Anyway, there are loads of photos on the site of the variations of colours.

http://www.morgancolors.com/basecolors.htm

 

[VioletStripe]

a nice one

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The Morgan site is lovely.

 

[Alphamare]

I would be POd if someone called my boy a dun purely because he isn't. Like if they get your horses sex wrong.

 

[marmalade76]

Marmalade - stop being a stick in the mud! :devilish:

...surely the term 'coloured' can't be pc any more.

This had occured to me, but coloured is also a recent term AFAIA, it was piebald and skewbald when I was a kid.

Why don't we breed out all the modifiers and dilution genes, or just get rid of them with a bit of genetic engineering - then we'd just have black and chestnut and no white markings at all. Simple and easy.

However model horse people would hate a simple colour system - they seem to revel in painting the rarest, most complicated coat colour and pattern.

Ah well, you can't keep everyone happy... black and chestnut only, seems the best way forward to me.

Excellent idea and totally agree! If I could choose any colour and markings I would stick to dark with minimal white simply for practical reasons. There does seem to be a fashion for owning/breeding the fanciest colours possible which I just cannot get my head round when most people want a horse for riding - colour really shouldn't matter.

And a question for you colour/gene experts - why do flea-bitten greys (no doubt there's a new name for that now) get more flea-bitten with age?

 

[Enfys]

I do agree though that some of the terms used to describe colours could be better. Pallys should really be called 'Barbie' colour don't you think?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Being pedantic (and very much tongue in cheek) I think they should be called Ysabellas (ignoring the fact that that only referred to a particular shade) and that sooty and chocolate palominos should go find a new umbrella to shelter under

 

[JLD]

can i join in ? if my boy has a chestnut head white and brown mane is skewbald marked white and chestnut roan patches which are very pale in winter very dark in summer and has a black brown and white tail what is he officially called ? tricolor, skewbald roan or shall I just stick to coloured which again sound most un PC and he always looks odd in coloured classes !

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Fleabitten grey is still called that, but of course it's days are numbered as once I've done my genetic engineering the grey gene will be no more!

I haven't read anything that fully explains why greys get fleabites, but someone might have seen some recent research into this (please post the link if you find it).

JLD - photos of your horse would be really helpful.