What do you think about Parelli?

[Fluke]

So what do I think about Parelli? Quite simply, the best thing I have ever done for my horse!
I have a traditional horsey background, no different from thousands of other people - pony club and countless hours spent mucking out at my local riding school, a few years away from horses whilst at college then taking on two horses and working through my BHS stages. I also spent some time working for an event rider and competed successfully at local level dressage.
I first came across Parelli in the late 90's when Your Horse ran a series of articles and thought 'why on earth does anyone want to use a bright orange stick?', and carried on as I had before.
Parelli then came to me at the insistance of a very challenging young horse I had bought to event. Whatever I asked and however I asked it, she opposed me. In this instance traditional advice (which seemed to boil down to 'dont let her get away with it') failed me and I was told by well meaning friends that it wasnt me, it was the horse and to sell her. I was at my wits end and at this point was introduced to the Parelli program.
The information provided was a revelation. Suddenly everything made sense and I knew I had found a way forward. She made huge changes (so did I!!!) and became the lovely horse I always knew she was. From being a person who was often in the tack shop checking out the latest training aid to see if it offered the answers I was seeking, I changed to someone who realised the only training aid I needed to improve was the one between my ears. The equipment I bought when I began Parelli in May 2000 is still going strong and as good as new, and as I no longer have 2 to 3 lessons a week at £25 a pop, I can easily afford to participate in Parelli clinics.
For those of you who are fortunate to already have an excellent relationship with your horse and the natural ability to know what they need, when the need it and why they need it, then I am truly happy for you, but please dont knock those of us who follow a slightly different path from the norm. We're all here because we love our horses and we all want a good relationship with our happy, confident, responsive, supple and athletic horse.

 

[dicey]

FLUKE - excellently, and very eloquently put!

That goes for me too!

I REST MY CASE!

 

[dicey]

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or too sensible to put their lives at risk?!

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So I guess they also stay firmly in bed then as you are more likely to get run over and killed then you are falling from a horse!

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Death could be a happy release, words almost fail me for your unbelieveable ignorance, and nievity.

Almost not worth the effort to reply, but just to give you SOME idea, how about having your horse leap onto or even into a vehicle? That can be pretty devastating for both horse and rider, doesn't mean either of you will die, but you could both be crippled for life. Fancy having to have someone wipe your backside for the rest of your life - not so funny now eh?

Or may be you just loose a foot - ah well, still got another one.

Or perhaps with a little time, thought, intelligence and a bit of assistance from the Parelli program it is possible to reduce the risks of that happening, along with all the other accidents that (incidently there is another discussion on in H & H) are apparently on the increase.

 

[RuthR]

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or too sensible to put their lives at risk?!

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So I guess they also stay firmly in bed then as you are more likely to get run over and killed then you are falling from a horse!

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I don't know how you can say that. If you don't have any confidence problems then I'm happy for you. I have suffered all my life with lack of self confidence, even around people. Add that to a horse who landed me in hospital pre-parelli because he spooked and double barrelled me in the chest as I was just try to put his halter on in the field I became very fearful of my horse.

Horse riding is a dangerous sport - as pointed out H&H has reported about the investigation into deaths at 3 day events. But even hacking out down the road can end in tradegdy - I ended up in a right old state just trying to catch my horse. If I believe that Parelli helps me minimise the risk of injury to me and my horse why shouldn't I be allowed to do what I want and what makes me and my horse feel happy and safe with each other.

since doing Parelli (touch wood) I've not had any serious accidents (I've being doing it 4 years now) - compare that to falling off nearly everytime I rode my horse when having traditional lessons and I think I'm much safer now (to the point where we have even started some jumping). Like I say if you don't feel you need it - fine; but don't belittle people who want do go through the process to make themselves a little bit safer.

 

[mystiandsunny]

Parelli, or any other NH programme can help someone who doesn't have the knowledge/experience to work through certain behaviour problems themselves, and who cannot find a competent instructor to show them how.

Yet for the minority who STILL insist that everyone should do Parelli regardless because otherwise they have a **** relationship with their horse, no one answered my earlier question.

In the case of a horse-human relationship, where the horse picked the human, where is the need for Parelli? This is a pony who for 'her' human is a little angel, looking after him when he rides her, respecting him, following him around, whinnying to him when he arrives, guarding him if he falls off (seems to be mostly in the school - he's never managed it out hacking, is still novicey so sometimes does just lose his balance as we've had a long time saddle-less so has been walk, trot, canter bareback). All the time she watches him. If he wants to teach her something her attention is totally focused and she works hard to do her very best, and if he's cross with her.... there is no greater punishment than to have 'your' human tell you off verbally (in her eyes).

 

[gemmah]

To Many: Matthew chptr 7 vs 1-5 <font color="purple"> </font>

 

[phaseone]

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Parelli, or any other NH programme can help someone who doesn't have the knowledge/experience to work through certain behaviour problems themselves, and who cannot find a competent instructor to show them how.

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Gosh Bronya

where does that leave those who are acomplished experts in their field, such as Karen and David O Connor, Luis Lucio? Don't good horsemen keep searching for more knowledge? An even better way to achieve something? Isn't that what all high achievers do? Why shouldn't ordinary horse folk be the same? Most people who are signed up Parelli students are normal working people with families, who enjoy horses for a hobby.

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Yet for the minority who STILL insist that everyone should do Parelli regardless because otherwise they have a **** relationship with their horse, no one answered my earlier question.

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Not sure I can remember anyone here saying that everyone should do it and if they don't, they'll have a less rewarding relationship with their horse. Personally, I don't care at all what other people do.

 

[gemmah]

Barbacus! GoodCall!! Standing ovation to you!!!

 

[silversox]

Well, I went along today, to watch the first session of two, as I said I would, with an open mind. There were 6 horses in the arena each standing with his owner waiting to start at 9.30am. I was reasonably impressed with Neil Pye's introduction but found that an hour and a half intro. became rather tedious and we were all beginning to fidget.

The rest of the morning he explained the initial 'join-up' or play and those taking part found that they were having reasonable success with their horses. We stopped for lunch at 12.30 for a tasty barbeque which was well received by the six owners who had been standing, more or less in the same place, for over 3 hours. So by then nerves were getting rather fraught and I was becoming impatient to see some 'real' technique being used with some positive results.

The demonstration started again at 2pm with the same 6 horses and owners and I'm afraid, IMO, it went downhill from there-on. I can't see the point of someone kindly bringing their horse along to be used as a 'guinea-pig' and which is quite head-shy, for it to be clouted on the muzzle with the orange stick, several times, because he wouldn't take a step back when the rope was shaken at him?

Quite a few spectators were not happy with this approach and I for one didn't think it achieved anything. I'm all for using 'natural' training methods and clouting a head-shy horse on the nose isn't one of them. Neil Pye's argument for using this technique was that loose horses together in a field will use the same method to reprimand each other. Sorry, but I thinks it's b******s.

So, I went, I saw and I discussed it and now I have dismissed
it. There's an old saying - 'Each to his own' so I wouldn't try to put anyone else off this method but it's not for me.

I shall probably get slated now!!!!

 

[jen1]

Have had a go with my young bolshy cob and it has certainly helped me to get him to move around and go backwards (me on the ground) It's also nice spending time with him on the ground and not just lunging. It's just something different to do and for my horse to think about.

I do agree thought that the equipment is very expensive for what it is, luckally I can borrow from a friend. Being on a very strict budget (as i think many horse owners are) I am surprised at the cost of it all. I was thinking of going to the demo later in the year but just can't afford it!

Anyway that's just my opinion!!!

 

[phaseone]

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Well, I went along today, to watch the first session of two, as I said I would, with an open mind. There were 6 horses in the arena each standing with his owner waiting to start at 9.30am. I was reasonably impressed with Neil Pye's introduction but found that an hour and a half intro.

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Thanks for your account of the event dun4. You should nnot fear being slated for simply giving your view on something, unless of course, it breaks some kind of law LOL.

I went to a day demo and got quite bored too, though it wasn't a Parelli one. It was an equine ethology one. Dave and Charlotte had ceased to be Parelli instructors for some time before it became clear to all that Parelli was over in the UK for a while. Anyway, there was a lot of talking there too, but I expected that. Then there was the demo. Not massively impressive but I did learn two new things. It was not fun place for children and many people were bored. For me though, I still have that knowledge from the day so it was worth it.

My question about the headshy horse is, did the 'whole' approach they used work? Did the horse show any positive change? Obviously we weren't there and couldn't see why the horse was smacked.

Parelli teaches safety first around horses and people learn how to recognise safety issues and behaviour which might lead to danger. Blocking techniques are tought. These came in handy for a friend of mine whose horse would have killed her due to his dominance and insecurity, had she not known how to get him off her, and I mean, OFF her. He never needed more than a phase three instruction though, to alter his plans. He is now a less mentally challenged horse that can be ridden out. For years he was dangerous (ex-race horse).

So, knowing why the technique was used is useful too. I would hope to never, ever smack my horse in the face. That's my veiw. But I do 'drive' his head using my hands or stick when we are playing together. No contact is made using this technique and phase one is usually all that is needed for my horse.

Good that you actually went to the demo. What did your friend think about it?

 

[phaseone]

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I As consumers we should remember this award when they suggest that we absolutely must have only their equipment to be successful. They are brilliant marketers and have the awards to prove it!


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In business speak Parelli students are referred to as passionate consumers, or something like that. On the up side, if you manage to hook one, you are likely to keep them as they are focused and commited. On the down side, they know what they want and although they are loyal, they do leave if not satisfied.

Parelli goes to great lengths to ensure they listen to the wishes of their target group. They DO listen. The reason we now have an International Savvy Club is because the students wrote letter after letter asking to be supported directly by the team in the USA. Some of you may not know that UK student were unable to join the Savvy Club until just over a year ago, due to legal matters being resolved. Maybe this makes us UK students extra passionate

as a result of all the troubles.

Parelli means quality, good presentation and good packaging. It is the same at conferences. Sessions are long in the planning and presentations as polished as they can be. I go just to hear Pat tell story after story using a lot of humour but always a good measure of horse sense.

There's nothing wrong with providing a good service. I don't buy everything they provide. No one actually does. For a long time I made my own equipment, but Parelli equipment is great quality.

One thing I will do though, is buy the new level three pack if one gets produced.

 

[Tinypony]

Thanks very much Dun4, that has confirmed some things for me. A few Parelli students have told me that things have "changed" when I had said that a phase 4 can be very harsh, and horses get hit around the head. Obviously I am still current in my thinking.
Can you just clarify two things. You mention the "join up" - can you explain a bit more, because people will think that means chasing a horse in a round pen, and the Parelli people wouldn't have been doing that would they?
Also, was this a demo or a clinic? Was it maybe a level 1 clinic, day 1, with people being taught to use the techniques?
I organise NH clinics, but we tend to do the talking bit sitting down at the start and end of the day, not with our horses stood about for ages. Then people will stop to watch what is going on, maybe things will be explained as we go along, but not stood about for 1 1/2 hours! I think I'd have collapsed. Probably my horse too...

 

[tiga7592]

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There were 6 horses in the arena each standing with his owner waiting to start at 9.30am. I was reasonably impressed with Neil Pye's introduction but found that an hour and a half intro. became rather tedious and we were all beginning to fidget........the six owners who had been standing, more or less in the same place, for over 3 hours

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Part of this process which you describe as tedious is about getting the owners to spend 'undemanding time' with their horses which improves the relationship.

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I was becoming impatient to see some 'real' technique being used with some positive results.


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You were seeing it, you just weren't recognising it.

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Neil Pye's argument for using this technique was that loose horses together in a field will use the same method to reprimand each other. Sorry, but I thinks it's b******s

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You apparently haven't spent much time watching herds of horses then.

 

[Tinypony]

"Part of this process which you describe as tedious is about getting the owners to spend 'undemanding time' with their horses which improves the relationship."
I do think that's a bit of new-Parelli clap-trap.

They've introduced a lot more of this sort of stuff since Stephanie Burns got involved in the new programme. And who's to say that these owners didn't already spend "undemanding time" with their horses?
So - Neil hits the horses on the nose with a stick, and feels that reflects the behaviour of horses in the herd? Is that right?
Just thinking a bit more. I think this sort of demonstrates the sort of thing that makes people unhappy about Parelli. First, why does your horse need to back up from a stick being tapped on the leadrope? Why isn't it enough to be able to send them back from you a bit if you need space in front of you, and back them from the halter when standing alongside? And when these horses get their backup, and the trainer immediately stops to reward them - what did they look like in the instant they went back? I know that most of the time they back up with their heads in the air and with their necks tight. These horses are being taught to move incorrectly, and not using their bodies in the way that is physically best for them. (As Ken Faulkner said the other week "tense muscles break"). This incorrect movement continues throughout the programme and can be seen even in the horses of level 3 students.
The long term aim of all of this is supposed to be about ridden work. So why not teach them to use themselves well from the start? (Instead of accepting any backup in level 2, impulsion in level 2 and then try to get refinement in level 3...). I'm an NH person, and if I have a horse backing up I don't expect it to just back up any old how, I want it to soften the head and neck down into a nice shape (outline) and then step back smoothly, putting the weight back on the hind end. That's because I have a longer-term goal about riding. And riding bitless - in collection. And I want my horses working in a physically beneficial way, not startled into tense movement. I train this from day 1, which I think is much fairer on them.

 

[Tinypony]

Oh dear... I meant (Instead of accepting any backup in level 1, expecting impulsion in level 2 and then try to get refinement in level 3...)

 

[mystiandsunny]

Just because people are good riders, does not mean that they are good horsemen/women. Even more so for professionals who do not have much of a chance to bond with their horses. They'll get them and be expected to jump on and go, when they don't feed them or look after them and they've only just met the horse. Something like Parelli can work as a fast track for the horse/rider to get to know each other.

There were a few posts further back that suggested that anyone not doing Parelli had a rubbish relationship with their horse - go back and read the thread if you wish to find them.

Oh, and anyone who knows already how to do something won't bother looking for a better way to do it, unless their current one is time consuming or something prevents them from using it. They will also pick and choose from any programme that helps - I seriously doubt that those professionals mentioned ride in the horse-harming way that is recommended, with the horse on the forehand and the rider sitting in a chair seat. They will use what helps them and ditch the rest - if they didn't, they'd not be able to compete as well as doing it...

 

[phaseone]

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There were a few posts further back that suggested that anyone not doing Parelli had a rubbish relationship with their horse - go back and read the thread if you wish to find them.

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Surely you would know which posts you were referring to yourself Bronya? Perhaps you should be prepared to identify the relevant posts or not pass comment. It is all too easy to generalise.

I have indeed read the entire thread but apart from what seem like defensive, knee jerk comments -which would be understandable given the red rag being waved merrily in front of some of them- I cannot see anything which suggests that non Parelli horsemanship leads to a rubbish relationship.

 

[sam67]

A bit off topic, but I have recently applied to buy into a franchise which will help me to help kids that have learning difficulties.

The cost of me being able to use the name and to do two weeks training is £20,000, then on top of that I have to attend further courses and pay for tht information.

At first I felt that this was an awful lot of money, but then I thought about it, and at the end of the day I will be getting 35yrs experience at my fingertips, I will also be able to earn a living from it and will probably earn back the £20,000 within two years.

Although I appreciate that the PNH sounds like a lot of money but you will get all of Pats knowledge without having to put in the time and money that he has done to get this far.

I am not for or against PNH just thought I would add my bit.

 

[asbo]

what do i think about parelli????????


not much

 

[silversox]

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Thanks very much Dun4, that has confirmed some things for me. A few Parelli students have told me that things have "changed" when I had said that a phase 4 can be very harsh, and horses get hit around the head. Obviously I am still current in my thinking.
Can you just clarify two things. You mention the "join up" - can you explain a bit more, because people will think that means chasing a horse in a round pen, and the Parelli people wouldn't have been doing that would they?
Also, was this a demo or a clinic? Was it maybe a level 1 clinic, day 1, with people being taught to use the techniques?
I organise NH clinics, but we tend to do the talking bit sitting down at the start and end of the day, not with our horses stood about for ages. Then people will stop to watch what is going on, maybe things will be explained as we go along, but not stood about for 1 1/2 hours! I think I'd have collapsed. Probably my horse too...

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I used the term 'join-up' incorrectly, perhaps I should have called it phase one, where the owners are taught initial techniques using Neil Pye's equipment, such as leading the horses around on loose 12' ropes attached to his halters. I think it was a level one clinic, day 1, which was completely free to all, including the barbeque, hosted by the owner/proprietor of Alden Livery. Those taking part stood around for THREE hours in the morning and another TWO in the afternoon.

The horse in question, (a rehab. racehorse) would not take a step back when his owner was tapping and then banging the rope. It stood there, eyes boggling, head right up, neck rock hard and appeared to be trembling. Neil took hold of the rope and warned the horse, twice, by hitting it's rope with the orange stick; when it still refused to move he banged it pretty hard on the muzzle. He repeated this exercise several times with a negative result. The only other result (I have heard since) was that not only did some spectators query this practice but two of them walked out.

I must admit that by then I was getting pretty fed up so said my goodbyes and left, leaving my friend and five others still standing in the arena with pretty stiff backs and very bored horses, except of course for the TB who was still trying to make out what was being asked of him.

I did take some pics. but I don't think I had better put them on here.

As far as Tiga7592's comments are concerned, I have been around horses for well over 50 years, and yes I have studied them in a herd environment - our TB stallion used to run with his mares and I sat up in the fields for hours at a time watching the mares foaling and rearing their young, with the stallion grazing with them. He was a brilliant Dad to them all and taught them manners by nipping them if they were doing wrong, but we are just a bit more intelligent than horses and we know that it is totally wrong for US to hit horses anywhere around the head, don't we?

IMO I would think twice about spending £20,000 on training fees etc. to become qualified. IMO this Parelli technique is a well marketed fad which will soon be recognised for what it is - a good little earner with hard-up horse-lovers left to count the cost. IMO !!!

 

[HDT]

I'm surprised at Neil Pye as you say "Hitting the horse hard on the nose" Was it really as hard as you say or did it just look like it was? How did the horse react? Just asking as I wasn't there to see it and I'm just trying to see it from all angles.

Usually the steps are Phase 1 - wigggle your finger which does not move the rope.

Phase 2 - wiggle your wrist which wiggles the line slightly

Phase 3 - wiggle the arm from the elbow - this causes the line to move a lot more and usually this is all you need,

There is a phase 4 which is using you entire arm which again creates more movement in the line.

Phase 4 can also be phase 3 backed up with marching strides or tapping the horse with the carrot stick on the chest.

Also using your energy helps. I myself have not hit a horse on the nose to get it to back up.

I would love to hear others people's comments about this as it is concerning and I am sure Neil Pye would not be wanting to be giving out the wrong messages.

Reading the feedback makes me intrigued and I would like to go and watch and see what is happening.

Regards the hour and 30min of talking at the start I too get bored of this. Not may I add because the talking is boring but because I have a low attention span and my mind wanders. However at the last course I organised I disciplined myself and listened to what was being said and you know what? The time flew and it was all interesting and intriguing what was being said.
Mind I was sitting down, I don't think my legs could take standing for that length of time.

I do know a friend who said she was going so I'll email her and see what she thought of the demo.



Unfortunatley I didn't go along because with not seeing my two horses for 2 weeks due to a collapsed lung saturday was the first day back at the yard which was more important to me. I am thinking of going in June though if I don't have anyhting booked.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Started to write a whole diatribe about my thoughts on Parelli and really just can't be bothered - in a nutshell I feel Parelli is:

A good way for people to make money from other people who do not have good old fashioned horsesense, sadly a few horses suffer along the way.

 

[StrawberryFish]

Blumming heck - I'm sure admin regret asking this question now....

 

[Tinypony]

HDT - you are describing the phases of the Yo Yo game aren't you? This one where they tap the rope for backward is different. I suppose it's more like a version of the driving game... And I still don't see the point of it.
I'm still amused by the idea of owners and horses stood about in an arena for hours as a way to spend "undemanding time" together. I wonder how much it does for the horses? I suspect they'd rather spend their undemanding time eating grass.
It's a shame when people come away from dems and clincs having been put off by things like this. I know it makes some Parelli students cringe. There are those out there who, whatever their instructor might do, would never hit their horse around the face.

 

[JoyceM]

Brilliant! Been doing it for about 6 years. Had my doubts at the beginning but I've been progressively more convinced the more I've done.
Cost has been a problem for me but I've managed, and everything I've bought is still going strong.
I'm sure a lot of it is commonsense, but unfortunately this kind of sense is not common to enough people.
As with most things there is a lot of prejudice because people often object to something that they feel is criticising what they already do. Criticism is not the Parelli aim, trying to improve a person's understanding of the horse is its purpose.
That can't be bad.

 

[HUSfan]

HI everyone, skimmed threw alot of pages here. I am not a Parelli fan. I know several people who are. I get so frustrated watching them. More then half of them need to send their horse to a proper trainer to teach it some manners. I know one lady who has a 8 year old gelding that she tip toes around and is totally afraid of. She pays $35 an hour once a week for a Paralli wanna-be to ride the nasty thing. It is 8 and only been rode once a week for 6 years because they don't want to push it and blow his mind. It has not been taught to tie yet. It takes 3 people just to saddle it.

This is natural horsemanship, no thank you!!

 

[mystiandsunny]

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Oh, your horse does 'like' you though, he just could'nt give a rats arse about you. Are you not interested in applying this horse sense? You don't want your horse to do these things? Ah well, some people do just want their horse so they can ride, why do you want your horse to follow you around? You might just want rosettes and trophies, 'wow, is'nt that a beautiful mechanical robot there?' Whether or not you want to apply this common sense is up to you.


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[dicey]

Sorry to disagree, - but isn't phase 1 - raise your energy!

 

[phaseone]

Thanks for finding this Bronya

The entire post has a lot of energy in it and it is important to consider what went before aslo. But the comments seem aimed at those who knew very little, or rather, enough to make an incomplete assessment of Parelli, who say that it is all just common sense.

Of course it isn't common sense, otherwise we'd all be doing it anyway and we aren't all the same are we. Each of us has a different range of ability, ambition and desire. So many people fall at the first hurdle simply because they cannot find time to read the booklets which came with the ordiginal packs!

You have to be truly commited, to study this programme.

But...re the phrase about the rat's a*** (and I happen to love rats

) I thought I had a great relationship with my horse pre Parelli. If I fell off he'd come to me, he'd canter to me in the field, he'd back up on a circle in an open space at liberty for me...I could go on and on. But once I started Parelli he looked at me with a new glint in his eye. This was a real look of appreciation, which he still has. He expects me to be able to read very soft signals now. Ones I was blind to before. Parelli gave me that ability. No amount of common sense could have done that, but common sense drove me to search for a better way.