What do you think about Parelli?

[ShirlJean]

I did not say that there aren't other great horsemen out there. Pat has the program to help others achieve that goal as well, not just show what he can do. When you went home from this other man's demo, where you able to then attain what he was able to do, at the level he presented? I have many high point trophies on the wall in our arena....when I saw what Pat was offering, I realized what I was missing with my horses. I was a very good rider, but not a horseman, but I am certainly on the road to becoming a horseman now. And if you truely observe "most" of the horses at a show, they do think their riders are "asses"!!!!!

 

[spaniel]

[ QUOTE ]
And if you truely observe "most" of the horses at a show, they do think their riders are "asses"!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh for heavens sake!!

 

[Skhosu]

Oh dear...so how do you tell if a show person practisies parelli? Does their horse win? Why on earth not since it is so wonderful?
This is stupid. I see so many well ridden, happy ponies at shows, here's an example, was at a PC event last night, a lesson round a course of jumps. Two horses had a stop, mine and another. Both were reassured, neither rider actually carried a stick, and both continued on happily over big jumps. All the horses in the lessons I watched/was in, were happy and well treated. All of them are competition animals.

 

[HDT]

Hmmm !!!! How interesting a Home Study Course provided by the BHS, so you can study about horse care at home and get a certificate.. How interesting that the BHS does this. However I can't see anyone being interested as Pat's Home Study Course was slandered by many on here.

The only diffrence is this is being sold on eBay very cheaply at the moment so anyone can afford to buy it really, even those who haven't been anywhere near a horse in there lives... Mmm! How interesting....

The eBay number is
170114638268

 

[dicey]

I have read most of the comments with great interest - there are too many thoughts to comment on quickly!

I am, however, saddened by the lack of regard for individual choice and opinion and some of the derogatory remarks made by both traditional and PNH "students", (who, incidently should know better "attitude" and I am sure Pat and Linda would be mortified).

I am classically trained by one of the most wonderful horsewoman anyone could hope to meet, knowing her students as well as she knew every one of her horses (and she had one for every students issues!) I was also lucky enough to have the support of a retired head stud groom from one of the top studs in the UK 60 years ago when I had my first pony, so all in all I do pick up, open, check smell, colour and consistancy of my horses poo daily! and still groom my horse with the white glove in mind! LOL

I gave up horses for 15 years - yes guys that does make me a MIDDLE AGED WOMAN! I was then given the most challenging horse I have ever had - thank you Soooooooo much! He would orbit the moon if a bee farted! - no exaggeration there folks! I am NOT afraid of my horse, just aware of my own mortality and vulnerability, and do not enjoy being catapulted out of the saddle and projected into outer-space!

I had never heard of Parelli, nor any "natural horsemanship" before I was a fan of Pat Smythe - only ever saw her smack a horse once! My horses reputation went before him (my life went before my eyes!) and I was introduced to Parelli - let the journey begin!

I have pongoed on one end of my rope with my horse pirouetting on the other tripped over my rope, poked myself in my eyes with my carrot stick, whacked myself round my head with the end of my rope - but what the hell, the system does work!

The results I have experienced with this horse are amazing! I truley would advise anyone who has a love of horses - and I guess that is everyone reading this site! At least investigate it, I never realised the terrible things we unwittingly do to our horses, how forgiving they are. I honestly believe there will not be many people out there who would not learn something, and I am not saying this is the only good natural horsemanship style, because it isn't. There are loads out there, and they all have something to offer. I am just saying for me, this has opened my eyes. It is a journey about the person, with ways to enable you to build confidence up in your horse quickly, there is another way to resolve issues like, bucking, rearing, bolting, rushing fences, claustrophobia, and yes, the famous trailer loading, and if the program is adhered to it works really well, and I don't bash my horse with the carrot stick, he would bash me right back! LOL

Try to get to the conference, if you have the slightest interest, they will explain far better than I can, it really isn't expensive, you could get 6 cinema tickets for the same price, and I guarantee you wouldn't learn half as much, nor have so much fun!

 

[Skhosu]

but.if you're doing all these things, what is happening on the other end?
Maybe it gets calmer horses because the owners do so many silly things the horses have to be?
I don't like how many people are talking about how silly they were then they began, recipe for disaster?

 

[dicey]

I actually would have more respect for someone than to call them "silly", however, consider this, would a horse become calmer because the rider has accidently pulled it in the mouth? or lost balance going round a Xcountry course causing the horse to loose its balance, or been over-encouraged to get a move on or clear the next fence?

I am sure the majority of riders can look back over their careers (or play-times) and remember at least one or two instances where they "could have done better".

 

[Shilasdair]

Hi HDT
I'm sorry, I didn't understand your post. Did you mean the BHS Horse Owner certificate is available through Home Study? I think it's aimed at new horse owners to ensure that they know how to feed, groom, worm, look after their ponies safely.
But what did you mean by 'However I can't see anyone being interested [in the BHS course?] as Pat's Home Study Course was slandered by many on here.'?
New horse owners, I believe, need help from somewhere but probably they'd be better off having face to face lessons, don't you agree?
Having been asked by new owners 'Excuse me, is this hay or straw?' it shows how much room there is for confusion.
What, if I may ask, HDT, is a Parelli Co-ordinator?
S

 

[magicmoose]

Parelli (Community) Co-ordinator, or CoCo is a term that was used by the previous Parelli distributors in the UK, before the company morphed into Equine Ethology. It has no real relevance any more, although the ex-CoCos are generally still students of the Parelli programme.

 

[JoeJoe]

I apologies in advance for the length of this post as by the time you get this far through the postings, you are probably exhausted.

PNH interested me when Pat first came over to the UK. I bought the kit and tried it to see how useful it could be. I have also spent time with PNH students, trainers and horses since then.

It is an entirely different ‘animal’ to the traditional training found in the BHS, Pony Club and classical schools (which were the foundation of my own riding and training). It is an entirely different ‘animal’ to the way most highly skilled and educated horse riders and trainers relate to their competition horses, where their, soundness, performance and specific results are used to judge success.

Do not try to compare the two, as if they have the same aims and agendas.

PNH is not the same, no matter how much it is dressed up and no matter how much Linda, in particular, tries to move closer (in terms of technique and equipment) to the very activity that she and Pat have criticized and ridiculed over the years. Dressage!
Of course the equipment and techniques that she is now having to accept as legitimate and helpful, in order to do her version of dressage, are probably being given PNH names to keep it ‘Natural’.

For some reason, when I think of PNH it makes me think of the story of the Emperor and his new clothes. How Interesting…..

It certainly does have to be admired for the way it has created a sense of belonging in thousands of individual horse owners around the world who either don’t want to join in with the main stream or who lack the ability keep up. This indicates serious shortcomings in the way that organisations like the Pony Club and the BHS work, because these people should have found support and comradeship there.. They didn’t and so looked for and found it elsewhere.

Aspects of the Seven Games ground-work, can be used as an effective and helpful tool for certain horses, particularly helping a horse re-think a problem from a different perspective. Therefore, it makes sense for trainers to be open to looking for and making use of the useful tools that can be found within PNH. They do exist if used wisely. So, it isn’t all bad and there is no doubt that there are many people who know that PNH has helped them to overcome problems that no-one else was helping them with.

However, where things go seriously awry for horses is that PNH ever got involved in telling people how to ride, beyond keeping them safe. I have seen too many young horses (6 and7yrs) who are broken down, lame and defeated through being pushed through the levels programme by riders who are desperate to get their progress string of a different colour.

Too many hours of being ridden on a loose rein and a loose rider when the paces are so unbalanced, that the horse is practically falling over. I was disturbed by the fact that it was accepted within the programme, that the first horse someone took through the levels would sometimes end up literally ‘broken’. They even had a term for it…….the ‘sacrificial lamb’. The horse that was discarded, in the interests of getting the rider through the levels. Surely any system of training and riding that does damage to horses in this way needs to be questioned.

Our horses will go where we lead them if the training is consistent and positive enough, so they rely on us to choose the right path.

Good riding is based on addressing the horses’ health, soundness and comfort through respecting physics and the way its body works in conjunction with a methodical and consistent way of working with their minds. It protects the horse from riding induced injury and makes a horse more versatile and confident for all disciplines by paying attention to the quality of its movement. It is the foundation of Classical and Competition dressage, which can and is, done badly at times, but has the advantage that, even when done only reasonably well, which is within the grasp of most riders, it makes it safer and more comfortable for the horse to participate.

‘Hands up if you love horses’, works well as a sound-bite but rings a little hollow for me because of all the PNH training, under saddle, that I have seen, it only seems to reach a point of doing a little actual harm when done at its very best and can be positively destructive when done any other way. Unfortunately, a lot of its followers are stuck at a level where their horses are physically compromised when ridden.

So, you make your choice and you deal with the consequences…….both good and bad, and for goodness sake, when considering your options and how far down any path you take your horse, let’s have a bit of respect for our own history of treating and training horses well in the UK.

The grass often looks greener on the other side, but may give you terrible indigestion if you eat too much!

 

[aimeerose]

well put!

 

[spaniel]

Applauds JoeJoe.

 

[Talan]

Yes JoJo!
That is why a lot of people moved away from Parelli (and there could be other reasons of course). And it's why I get frustrated by all of NH being categorised with Parelli. There are NH trainers, even some who come to the UK, who are much more concerned with having the horses interests at heart. These trainers link the groundwork directly to ridden skills, and do not accept horses slopping around on loose reins doing "patterns", but teach students to have them working correctly and softlt from the start. I saw Ken Faulkner riding recently, and certainly from what I saw he seems to have moved a long, long way from Parelli - and for the best. Another who I saw at a clinic last year would be Steve Halfpenny. These are both people who worked in the Parelli programme and moved on. I only saw a short demo of Ken Faulkner working, so I haven't seen him teach. I watched Halfpenny teach though, and there wasn't any horses whacked round the head with a clip in the clinic, in fact most ropes had no clips on. Now I come to think of it, there were no escalating phases of pressure and hitting horses hard with sticks at all.
So - there are trainers out there who are "NH" in style, but very different from Parelli, and I think in a good way. Just please H+H'ers - don't tar all with the Parelli brush.

 

[Tina33]

Joe Joe, Excellent post!!!

 

[najat]

Have just managed to wade my way through all these posts! Many people on here have already stated my views on Parelli...not for me, too expensive and doesn't sit right with me playing games!! (someone said pages ago - it is for people too scared to ride - I agree!)

But have to say that Joe Joe's post was excellent....although the idea of the 'sacrificial lamb' is terrifying and disgusting!

 

[dicey]

or too sensible to put their lives at risk?!

 

[suestowford]

[ QUOTE ]
This indicates serious shortcomings in the way that organisations like the Pony Club and the BHS work, because these people should have found support and comradeship there.. They didn’t and so looked for and found it elsewhere.


[/ QUOTE ]

Careful JoeJoe, you will be getting an insulting letter from Patrick Print!

 

[Tierra]

I swore I wouldnt stick my nose back into this thread again as generally it angered me, but 3 cheers for your post JoeJoe... its one of the most sensible on this thread

 

[HDT]

The angriest voice here , I don't think so...far from it, just because I use tact, don't get angry and start slagging people's beliefs and basically have an opinion does NOT make me have the angriest voice, in fact one post said little but spoke in volumes when saying "HDT Well Said"

oh and I have many many friends outdside of Parelli and inside the sytem..

Chill out....

As for being a bit strong yes I have my points of view but I don't slag other sytems off , moan about their high charges and go on and on about somehting I don't know anything about.

It would be like me going on an eventing forum and complaining aobut the way horses are jumped over huge fences and the osts of training and the prices of a good equipment etc


If you read everything I have said again and not just what oyu wanted to read then you woll see I often mention that I say I use both methods traditionadn natural and that in the right hands and used correctly both have good points and in the wrong hands have bad points.

Just because I give an opinion does not make a post strong unless the reader himself herself feels threatens by it.

If they do feel threatened ...why.....

The ones that seem to be getting angry with strong posts come across as the ones against Parelli.

 

[najat]

[ QUOTE ]
or too sensible to put their lives at risk?!

[/ QUOTE ]

So I guess they also stay firmly in bed then as you are more likely to get run over and killed then you are falling from a horse!

 

[Barbacus]

This discussion forum makes the most fantastic reading. I’ve been hooked for days and have laughed, recoiled, chuckled and made lots of teeth sucking noises at some of the more derisive comments and also applauded some of the intelligent and reasoned arguments that are being put forward to make this a true debate. I bet the H&H Admin Team hid when they clicked the post button on this topic. The fact that this level of interest in this discussion even exists shows some indication of the effect that Parelli is having in this country. In 1999, when I saw my first demo, if you’d said ‘What do you think of Parelli’ most people would have replied ‘What’s Parelli?? – Don’t they make tyres??’

Since that time the Parelli brand has exploded onto the scene in a really huge way and I don’t even think they predicted how successful it would be. Given that nothing like this had even been done before (home study packs that teach horsemanship skills) there were obviously some failings in the programme that will have only come to light once it was taken up and exposed to interpretation by thousands of different people. I believe that Pat and Linda are taking on board the feedback and criticisms they receive and are working to refine the programme to encompass improvements that lessen the risk of misinterpretation by students and are currently redirecting it into a learning programme that focuses more on developing the depth of knowledge and insight in students before teaching them ever increasing levels of techniques and tasks. I am looking forward to attending their conference in August at Solihull to see how their programme has developed to incorporate the many valid and reasoned arguments put forward about the shortcomings in their system.

If I could offer my own thoughts to this discussion it is that there is so much to learn from all good horsemen and women and they come in all shapes and sizes, from all different sorts of disciplines and backgrounds and teach under all types of ‘brands’ and ‘labels’. I think an earlier post talked about good horsemanship and bad horsemanship and I think this really is the essence of what we are all discussing here. I have seen, and still see, some pretty poor examples of horsemanship (including Parelli), across the broad spectrum that exists in this country, but I also see some truly excellent and inspirational horsemanship from all sorts of trainers, teachers and competitors and it would be wrong for anyone to dismiss any of them as having nothing to teach us or add to our portfolio of knowledge, skills and attitudes just because they are unfamiliar to us. I honestly don’t think it matters what you do or don’t wear, what type of stick you use, or what you do or don’t put on your horses head, it’s the essence of why you’re doing it, having a just and fair approach and intrinsic love for your horse that matters. As long as these things are in place your horse knows it and you’ll have a great partnership.

I know I’m fortunate in the fact that I have had the opportunity to study with many excellent horsemanship teachers, including Pat and Linda Parelli, and I thank them regularly for the insight and tools that their programme has given me. I hope that the influences of good horsemanship continue to improve and progress all the training systems we have available to us in this country and I welcome the Parelli team to Stoneleigh.

 

[Sparklet]

[ QUOTE ]
I never realised the terrible things we unwittingly do to our horses, how forgiving they are.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of interest, what were the terrible things that you unwhittingly did to your horse pre-Parelli?

Am I right in thinking that you event your horse, how has Parelli made a difference to the way you approach the three phases?

Sorry for all the questions I just wanted to know a bit more about it all.

 

[tiga7592]

[ QUOTE ]
Careful JoeJoe, you will be getting an insulting letter from Patrick Print!

[/ QUOTE ]

Little known fact No 999....Patrick Print is a supporter of Natural Horsemanship and organized a BHS Instructors Conference on the subject a couple of years ago which was very well received. It was presented by Dave Stuart and Charlotte Dennis who were, at that time, Parelli Instructors.

 

[Shilasdair]

Tiga 7592 says
'It was presented by Dave Stuart and Charlotte Dennis who were, at that time, Parelli Instructors. '
Why do the (previously apparently evangelical) Parelli Instructors quit Parelli?
I'm only curious as I've heard this of a lot of ex-Parelli people who start to distance themselves...
S

 

[HDT]

The Reason Dave and Charlotte decided not to sign their contract was to set up a business of Natural Horsemanship of their own.
They opened up a yard which not only incorporated Natural Horsemanship but dressage and showjumping events as well.

Unfortunately the business falied to take off and a year later the premises were up for sale. Dave and Charlotte continue to hold courses and I often receive emails advertising them.

I may be wrong but I think one reson for setting up independantly is to make a better living rather than only teaching. It's not an unusal thing to do as many people in may jobs decide to branch out on their own.

 

[SavvyHorse]

I personally think people leave so they can just do their own Horsemanship thing and from a lot of people's attitude towards Parelli itself I think they find they can reach other students who may have a negative attitude to PNH itself by being just NH instructors.

Also when they leave Parelli they can incorporate other things in their curiculum ie. natural healing or barefoot trimming, alternative treatments etc which when you're a PNH Instructor you cannot do.

Just my opinion though!

 

[HDT]

Yeah that is true, as a licensed instructor you have to follow certain rules. Dunno what they are though.

 

[silversox]

I've just had a call from my friend who keeps her horse at Alden Livery, Upton, Nr. Didcot who tells me that there is a Parelli demonstration there tomorrow, Sat. 26th.

Now I've always been open minded about these different techniques and as I don't ride anymore I can be less biased than some, so tomorrow I shall see for myself.

Apparently my friend's horse is being used as part of the demonstration and that'll be fun!! She bought it as a quiet hack but it turned out to be slightly more 'forward going' than she expected!! She is quite a nervous rider and although she has had the animal nearly a year, she still hasn't cantered it!! It dosn't help that it used to be driven and starts pacing as soon as she applies the aids to canter!

Like I said, I shall go there with an open mind...... and my camera.

 

[Tina33]

I copied the paragraph below from this week's Parelii E-news. Apparently they have won a big marketing award. It struck me that this is what they do best. Not that there is anything wrong with that, they should be proud. As consumers we should remember this award when they suggest that we absolutely must have only their equipment to be successful. They are brilliant marketers and have the awards to prove it!

From the e-news:
The Savvy Club Member’s Website and Liberty & Horse Behavior Home Study Program were entered into a competition called the All Industry Marketing (AIM) Awards. This competition honors the best Marketing (advertising and PR) and Publishing work in the equine and western lifestyle industry. The national awards ceremony was held May 19th in Scottsdale, Arizona and Parelli Natural Horsemanship won big!

 

[Tinypony]

"Why do the (previously apparently evangelical) Parelli Instructors quit Parelli?"
I know the answer to this, in the case of some. You need to understand what the Parelli organisation was like when it first started. Pat P was in Australian and invited certain trainers to join him. Some declined, some accepted. (And more joined around the world in the following years). Imagine you live in the middle of nowhere on your Aussie property, you are studying the Parelli programme, which consists of a list of tasks that you have to demonstrate to pass each level. It was that basic. These experienced horsemen demonstrated the tasks, posted off the vid, and back came their certificate. It didn't mean they were doing things the way Pat would, but it demonstrated their skills. At that time you could become a Parelli instructor without even attending a lesson with Pat. My friend Irena Halfpenny was an instructor and only ever attended one clinic with him (she's a quiet little person and didn't like it). So many of the original and early instructors were experienced and skilled horse people in their own right.
As the Parelli organisation grew, study packs were produced etc, there was a need for them to make sure they had some quality control and standardisation of what was being done in their name. Some instructors were told to change the way they taught as a result. It took a while, but the restrictions on what they could do, added to the rules and regs about where and when they could teach, and the commission Parelli would take, and the demands of Pat, sometimes at short notice, to drop everything and go for a meeting with him... I think you can imagine how they started to feel. So, a lot of them left. It's as simple as that. Some left by not going to a meeting that was called, and were then "sacked" - but that is really a case of did they jump or were they pushed.
There's not anything sinister in why the instructors left, and still do. There's not anything sinister about why people like me leave either, I just decided that it wasn't for me, I didn't like some aspects of what was taught, and moved on.