What is the obsession..

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

What is the obsession with riding so behind the vertical in dressage on social media?!

I have been scrolling through Tik Tok (yes I’m too old, it’s a guilty pleasure) and every dressage account I see has a tense chomping horse practically chin to chest, I hate it!! One was even using it to advertise his business.. unbelievable.

No point to this other than to rant but I can’t bare it, especially when you can so clearly see a visible, tense faced horse at the end of the unrelenting hands.

I had to comment on one to say that it was embarrassing that he thought a video of his horse so behind the vertical was appropriate advertising for his business.. he called me uneducated. Screenshot attached of what I was seeing.

 

[meleeka]

I think times are changing, slowly, but they’ll always be those who think they know it all.

 

[Gloi]

What's the obsession with riders sitting in that odd position too?

 

[nikicb]

Not someone I would want to watch riding at all. There are moments in time when some horses do dip behind the vertical, but that does not seem to be the case in these pictures. The rein length and arm position are not something I would aspire to. Not sure if UK based though, so not sure what you can actually do about reporting (as in rollkur) other than to FEI?

 

[shortstuff99]

I'm not sure it has been helped by Big Name dressage riders doing the same and then getting big scores. Or even doing tours where they tell everyone that is the way to train to win.

Scarily I think there is less of it now, which tells you how bad it was before!

 

[J&S]

Dreadful, absolutely awful and horrid. What more can I say?!

 

[Dave's Mam]

Just looks unpleasant all over to me. The rider's position is so bizarre.

 

[ester]

well you can tell how he got those shoulder muscles. . .

 

[Lois Lame]

Gasp. When I enlarged the picture just now I also enlarged the rider's arms. They don't seem to fit.

 

[HollyWoozle]

I think it’s those riders who are uneducated sadly, or rather educated in the wrong way and have come to believe they should be aiming for something like this. It’s infuriating! I’m absolutely not a dressage rider but I do know a number of excellent horsemen and women and there is a stark difference between their horses’ ways of going and what is seen here.

You see/hear it all the time though sadly, with amateur riders as well. “He went so well, he finally put his head down” etc. as if head down is the ultimate goal without considering anything beyond that or what the logic is. I feel that we have to keep calling riders out on this as best we can until it becomes socially unacceptable to ride in this way.

 

[ycbm]

Rollkür is banned, long live rollkür!

I haven't seen that lately but what I do see a lot of is people with their arms straight or almost straight and their hands on either side of the horse's wither, and that seems to be spreading. Are trainers teaching people to do it?
.

 

[ycbm]

What is the obsession with riding so behind the vertical in dressage on social media?!

I have been scrolling through Tik Tok (yes I’m too old, it’s a guilty pleasure) and every dressage account I see has a tense chomping horse practically chin to chest, I hate it!! One was even using it to advertise his business.. unbelievable.

No point to this other than to rant but I can’t bare it, especially when you can so clearly see a visible, tense faced horse at the end of the unrelenting hands.

I had to comment on one to say that it was embarrassing that he thought a video of his horse so behind the vertical was appropriate advertising for his business.. he called me uneducated. Screenshot attached of what I was seeing.

View attachment 80631View attachment 80632

Since he was advertising a business, not posting personally, can you name him so we can check him out? I'd like to take a look at what else he's doing.
.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I think it’s those riders who are uneducated sadly, or rather educated in the wrong way and have come to believe they should be aiming for something like this. It’s infuriating! I’m absolutely not a dressage rider but I do know a number of excellent horsemen and women and there is a stark difference between their horses’ ways of going and what is seen here.

You see/hear it all the time though sadly, with amateur riders as well. “He went so well, he finally put his head down” etc. as if head down is the ultimate goal without considering anything beyond that or what the logic is. I feel that we have to keep calling riders out on this as best we can until it becomes socially unacceptable to ri
de in this way.

Drives me a bit batty. People only ride the part of the horse they can see/the front half. I have a friend who mostly talks about her horse letting her head down...and I'm always like, ok, what is the rest of the horse doing ? if I only rode the front of my horse, we'd not get so far along in our training. When I ride his hind end (the motor!), and get him working over his back, the head is where it's supposed to be.

We did sometimes have behind the vertical moments as a hole in our training, but not due to me cranking him in! Even the best riders may have a moment when the horse is btv. Just a moment, and I also wouldn't use it as an advertising or main photo.

 

[shortstuff99]

Rollkür is banned, long live rollkür!

I haven't seen that lately but what I do see a lot of is people with their arms straight or almost straight and their hands on either side of the horse's wither, and that seems to be spreading. Are trainers teaching people to do it?
.

Rolkur just evolved to low, deep round. I saw a blog post from someone interning at Helgstrand in Germany saying in a lesson they put the horses into low, deep, round in piaffe as it brings the back up. My classical dressage soul withered and died at that point.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Since he was advertising a business, not posting personally, can you name him so we can check him out? I'd like to take a look at what else he's doing.
.

Absolutely, leaving the business name at the bottom of the screenshot was no accident
Although it's covered by the image previewer so it's https://halfstepequestrian.com/

I think there are definite positive steps, I see one dressage page that a lot of people aren't fans of if I remember correctly, that makes videos to praise more open frames and calls out bad riding at top level, but there needs to be more. I remember too one approx 6yo girl doing an intro dressage warmup when I volunteered to steward and her mum was calling 'yes!' when the pony dipped btv from an otherwise nose out frame. I was just thinking that she was training yet another rider up to believe that is what to aim for - fiddle with the front end and ignore completely how the horse is actually working.

Of course there will be moments of btv in some training, but this evidently isn't that! It also looks like he has a rein going through the snaffle, draw reins-esque, plus the curb rein which I think is unecessarily harsh, but I can't actually see well enough in the photo to confirm.

 

[ycbm]

He's British? I really thought we were done with all that btv rubbish

The website is just a shop, it doesn't show any of his riding or training, just sells his clothing range.
.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

He's British? I really thought we were done with all that btv rubbish

The website is just a shop, it doesn't show any of his riding or training, just sells his clothing range.
.

Ahh okay, if you have tik tok he has lots of videos on there - I can't link it now as he blocked me ?

 

[ester]

https://www.facebook.com/JH96Dressage

 

[CanteringCarrot]

https://www.facebook.com/JH96Dressage

There's actually quite a bit of "normal" photos on there though ?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

There's actually quite a bit of "normal" photos on there though ?

Yeah I was quite surprised by this too.. pleased to see it, but makes it an even weirder video to use to advertise the business, and it wasn't in isolation either as there other similar videos

 

[shortstuff99]

He has a very strong contact in all of his videos.

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

As my brilliant coach used to say " Oh look ! It's not just the horse that's got it's head stuck up it's ar*e ! "

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

As my brilliant coach used to say " Oh look ! It's not just the horse that's got it's head stuck up it's ar*e ! "

This made me laugh more than it should have! I might adopt this phrase

 

[ycbm]

He has a very strong contact in all of his videos.

He has absolutely set fists and arms, no give at all. It also looks in most of the photos as if the horses he is riding have more action and a longer stride in front than behind, which is probably no surprise. But he also has a solid record, so I guess he'd have a point if he said who are we to criticise.
.

 

[shortstuff99]

He has absolutely set fists and arms, no give at all. It also looks in most of the photos as if the horses he is riding have more action and a longer stride in front than behind, which is probably no surprise. But he also has a solid record, so I guess he'd have a point if he said who are we to criticise.
.

That's why dressage stays the same, why would they change when they get the marks?

 

[milliepops]

You see/hear it all the time though sadly, with amateur riders as well. “He went so well, he finally put his head down” etc. as if head down is the ultimate goal without considering anything beyond that or what the logic is.

i would add to this, "he loved this [bit/martingale/noseband] because he just put his head down" when it's nothing to do with the horse's acceptance of the contact but an upping of the strength of equipment making the horse more submissive.

I ride my horse in a double bridle and she goes better in that than a snaffle but not because she "loves" it, more because it gives me enough influence to teach her things

don't know about this rider in particular, the FB page shows a slightly irritating SM influencer style which doesn't appeal to me but the ridden pics look pretty standard. It would probably pay to be a bit more selective about what he puts on tiktok by the sound of it. not my bag anyway!

 

[[153312]]

Why do they all lean so far back too??
What happened to straight lines from shoulder to hip to heel?

And...elbows?? Have they forgotten they have them?

My first thought was "ewww".

 

[lynz88]

I see the same plastered on FB everywhere....meanwhile the nose is far behind the vertical and the horse is dropped through the back (working either "long and low" or more "up") yet see comments about how amazing horse/rider look despite the rider also sitting vvveerrryyyy far back as well. It takes all my strength not to comment....especially on those that I personally know.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

But he also has a solid record, so I guess he'd have a point if he said who are we to criticise..

A record doesn't mean sh*t any more in dressage I personally think.. some of the things they reward just because they have a flashy horse or a big name are criminal.
Aside from that I am not saying he has no skill as a rider, just that some of his methods are unpalateable, which is just my opinion and one I would stand by.

 

[ycbm]

I'm not on Tiktok but I tried to find the video the thread is about. I only found this, is it funny? (You don't need the app for it to run, just say no.)

https://www.tiktok.com/@joshhill_official/video/6853736449720798470?lang=en