What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

[Gingernags]

You need to be careful though, with all her "contacts" anyone crossing Patty might end up with a concrete blanket somewhere under a new road bridge!!!

 

[Taboo1968]

ROFL!!!!!

 

[Paddywhack]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to be careful though, with all her "contacts" anyone crossing Patty might end up with a concrete blanket somewhere under a new road bridge!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about her little gnomes from Pattyland ?

I will take care of them in one BIG kick

And besides they got to catch me first and with their little legs I will outrun them in a flash

 

[Janetterose]

why does everyone keep going on about this - everyone on both sides are sure that they are right, noone is getting anywhere and noone will be convinced that they are wrong. If people stops responding to Patty then who is she got to talk to? She is loving this! It just gives her more opportunity to air her views. Ignore her and eventually she will shut up and so will everyone else who has been supporting JG (hopefully)

 

[Paddywhack]

[ QUOTE ]
why does everyone keep going on about this - everyone on both sides are sure that they are right, noone is getting anywhere and noone will be convinced that they are wrong. If people stops responding to Patty then who is she got to talk to? She is loving this! It just gives her more opportunity to air her views. Ignore her and eventually she will shut up and so will everyone else who has been supporting JG (hopefully)

[/ QUOTE ]
You are SOO right,at the moment I am just taking the Mckey out of her,she has done that enough times with all of us.I am not discussing any J.G business,just having a bit of fun.
Hubby is watching football on our holiday,kids are playing with friends and I am bored

Will jump into the pool instead....

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]
why does everyone keep going on about this - everyone on both sides are sure that they are right, noone is getting anywhere and noone will be convinced that they are wrong. If people stops responding to Patty then who is she got to talk to? She is loving this! It just gives her more opportunity to air her views. Ignore her and eventually she will shut up and so will everyone else who has been supporting JG (hopefully)

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy a good debate. I am prepared to learn from Patty (although i havnt learnt anything worth knowing yet!) and likewise i aim to educate her that she is wrong! Whether that will ever happen i dont know but i do enjoy trying. Like PW, my OH is watching the football but i dont have a pool to jump in to

 

[Donkeymad]

QR

Patty, may I have answers to my questions please?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
PATTY- I have a question. You have said several times that people have jumped to the wrong conclusions (e.g. drugs)because they cant see how JG made money on the horses. Can you explain how he did make money then?

[/ QUOTE ]

How everyother trader makes money.

[ QUOTE ]
e.g. JG buys a horse for £1.

[/ QUOTE ]

So says the media.

[ QUOTE ]
Costs include travelling it at least once (diesel, lorry tax, lorry plating, driver wages), worming on the lorry (as you have said), Hay (£2.50+ bale, usually horses eat at least 1 bale a day), bedding, hard feed, water, business rates, veterinary treatment (as you have said) one call out & examination is £50+ without treatment, farrier, time/wages....

[/ QUOTE ]

And??? Are you saying that every trader is up to no good because you believe they cant possibly make money while having all the above to pay for?

[ QUOTE ]
Even at a purchase price of £1 there is a very tough job to make money on horses that were so thin and ill. So please explain how you think he did make his money?

[/ QUOTE ]

You show me 111 animals that were so thin and ill and I'll ask the same question.

[ QUOTE ]
If, as the photos and videos suggested (you cant deny the horses were thin and ill),

[/ QUOTE ]

How many thin and ill horses can be seen in the images?

[ QUOTE ]
he didnt even use much of his hay, bedding, hard feed, sufficient veterinary treatment, etc,

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this how exactly?

[ QUOTE ]
it makes it more of a possibility that money could be made by it being a numbers game. e.g 100 horses x £20 profit each compared to 5 horses x £100 profit each. You however deny that he didnt treat the horses badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 100% correct by saying that I deny he treated his animals badly.

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore please explain why you feel those horses were well looked after, as their body condition suggests otherwise, and how JG made money? Thank you, i am genuinely interested in your opinion and am waiting to be educated!

[/ QUOTE ]

He looked after them as well as any horseman should look after his horses. And looking after his stock is exactly how he made money.

I believe your questions are genuine - and good questions they are too, even if your opinion as to the why's and how's etc are wrong.

I have some questions of my own if you dont mind.

How many horses did you see in bad body condition? And how long did he own those particular animals?

How do you know he was not treating those sick animals?

How do you know those animals had not improved since he got them?

Thanks.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Dozzie,

you are so behind!

Spencer Wilton was SO last week... it moved on to Andrew Gould after that!

Keep up woman!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and how dreadful was that!? The Sun can say one thing one week and something different the next. And they name both men, one which is married.

You'd have thought they would learn not to mention names knowing how wrong they can be and have been.

But hey, in for a penny in for a pound - it's no concern of theirs when they publish [****] and screw people's lives up. They dont give a damn.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you imagine the sun reading this? The next thing will be JG is having an affair with KP!!!! Or KP has turned lesbian and is having an affair with Patty!!!

LOL!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Na, if I was into women it certainly would not be with someone like KP.

 

[tania01]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I have skipped the last three pages, the arguments are getting rather tedious.

patty, can I just ask, why do you not have your notes? Who has them? and why do you not have your own copies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Little donkey do you also expect her to answer this?

She will not answer anything that she does not like.

She has been asked numerous times questions that she has still refused to answer because she cant .

I have also asked among others asked some question yet will still not answer, yet if she wants an answer she will continue to ask.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]

You are SOO right,at the moment I am just taking the Mckey out of her,she has done that enough times with all of us.I am not discussing any J.G business,just having a bit of fun.
Hubby is watching football on our holiday,kids are playing with friends and I am bored

Will jump into the pool instead....

[/ QUOTE ]

Bloody hell PW, I sure hope you didnt pay to much for that holiday.

 

[Paddywhack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I have skipped the last three pages, the arguments are getting rather tedious.

patty, can I just ask, why do you not have your notes? Who has them? and why do you not have your own copies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Little donkey do you also expect her to answer this?

She will not answer anything that she does not like.

She has been asked numerous times questions that she has still refused to answer because she cant .

I have also asked among others asked some question yet will still not answer, yet if she wants an answer she will continue to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course she can't answer,she is full of sh*t and knows absolutely nothing ..when will you people realise that

 

[Donkeymad]

I can but ask. Patty? Please

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I have skipped the last three pages, the arguments are getting rather tedious.

patty, can I just ask, why do you not have your notes? Who has them? and why do you not have your own copies?

[/ QUOTE ]

No one has my notes I left them somewhere.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]

Of course she can't answer,she is full of sh*t and knows absolutely nothing ..when will you people realise that

[/ QUOTE ]

Several times you have told the forum that I know nothing.

Was it not you PW who also told the forum that Baskerville would not work for the likes of JG?

Bet you could have chewed ya foot off when you saw that it was you who knew nothing and was full of [****].

Enjoy ya holiday.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]


Little donkey do you also expect her to answer this?

She will not answer anything that she does not like.

She has been asked numerous times questions that she has still refused to answer because she cant .

I have also asked among others asked some question yet will still not answer, yet if she wants an answer she will continue to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you care to show me the questions I have not answered?

 

[patty19]

Serial liar, aka Paddywhack, luffs me doncha?

 

[Happy Horse]

QR

I just can't help myself!

Patty it is such a shame you 'left your notes somewhere' and are not able to present any proof to the forum that you have been promising.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes it had lots of horses in and out of there. But they were not kept in there. The pony lying down near the trough went down that day 4th Jan. JG tried to get it up. That pony had been in a field. Before JG could move it again the RSPCA arrived. Those horses were put in that barn by the RSPCA. I know you wont believe this but it's the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

So JG bought the sick pony in to a filthy dirty barn intending to move it to one of the nice clean fluffy ones? Why didn't he take it to one of the nice clean fluffy ones straight away if it was sick?

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?

Again, what proof do you have that the RSPCA moved them into the dirty barns for the video? With all the witnesses on site including police do you not think someone would have questioned it through the formal channels or are you saying that they were they all lying in court under oath?

 

[TGM]

Patty, you seem passionate about defending JG and rubbishing the RSPCA. May I ask you three questions:

1. Have you ever been convicted of any animal cruelty charges?

2. Have you ever had animals seized by the RSPCA?

3. Have you had any dealings with the RSPCA before the JG case?

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that you're Anne Kasica then?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're right Madhossy, that would explain a lot:

"Anne Kasica (46) of Felindre, Llandysul was convicted of 12 cruelty charges on horses in her care by magistrates. But she immediately lodged an appeal against the convictions and fines of £17,200. This meant that the RSPCA, who had seized all 12 horses, was unable to find new homes for them until after the appeal. However, Kasica withdrew her appeal at Swansea Crown Court on 24/10/00. RSPCA officers found the 12 emaciated horses in boggy fields near Llandysul and took them into care but two later died. Magistrates in the original case at Carmarthen ordered Kasica to pay £600 for each offence and costs of £10,000 a total of £17,200. But after withdrawing from an appeal hearing Kasica was told she would have no fines to pay because she had no way of paying them. The 10 horses that have been in care are now fit and healthy. A 10-year ban on keeping horses, which was imposed on Kasica by the magistrates, still stands."

 

[jacks_mum]

[ QUOTE ]

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the same question some pages ago and the reply I got :
[ QUOTE ]
Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically hearsay

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the same question some pages ago and the reply I got :
[ QUOTE ]
Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically hearsay

[/ QUOTE ]

Which means - and Patty feel free to answer this -

IT IS POSSIBLE that those conditions in the RSPCA photos are correct, that the horses were in filthy conditions as shows in the pictures taken there and then, and JG realising how much sh!t he was in (literally) could have cleaned out or bedded down empty barns so that when people came the next day - he could say look - take photos - my bedding is perfect?

So perfect there is not a dropping on it to show horses have been living in it...

That is possible isn't it?

And that Patty and others have seen just what JG wants them to see?

It might not be your opinion - but it IS possible as you were not there on the day of the raids or the day before, and all you have to go on is someone elses word?

 

[SpruceRI]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the same question some pages ago and the reply I got :
[ QUOTE ]
Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically hearsay

[/ QUOTE ]

If you were inviting Claire Ryder or any other vet to your premises to treat a horse, wouldn't you throw a bit of extra straw down and hide all the emaciated horses round the back out of sight?

Also, vets aren't in the habit of 'sniffing round'. They come to do the job, treat the horse, and then go.

 

[teddyt]

<font color="black"> Patty, yet again you havnt actually answered a question. Youve given a reply but not answers.

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="black">
e.g. JG buys a horse for £1.

[/ QUOTE ]

So says the media.

<font color="red"> e.g means for example Patty. But what do you say he paid for the horses?

<font color="black"> [ QUOTE ]
<font color="black"> Costs include travelling it at least once (diesel, lorry tax, lorry plating, driver wages), worming on the lorry (as you have said), Hay (£2.50+ bale, usually horses eat at least 1 bale a day), bedding, hard feed, water, business rates, veterinary treatment (as you have said) one call out &amp; examination is £50+ without treatment, farrier, time/wages....

[/ QUOTE ]

And??? Are you saying that every trader is up to no good because you believe they cant possibly make money while having all the above to pay for?

<font color="red"> Blimey youre thick! No, i never said every trader is up to no good. I dont believe you cant make money giving the above example. I KNOW! Its not rocket science. Its not even GCSE maths. A child of ten can work out that if something costs more than they sell it for then you dont make money.

<font color="black"> How many thin and ill horses can be seen in the images?
<font color="red"> Too many

<font color="black"> [ QUOTE ]
<font color="black"> he didnt even use much of his hay, bedding, hard feed, sufficient veterinary treatment, etc,

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this how exactly?

<font color="red"> Again, not exactly hard to work out. But as you are having trouble - Horses that are fed properly arent emaciated. Horses that are mucked out and have fresh bedding dont stand several inches in sh!t. 20% of horses in yards that care for their animals dont drop down dead.


<font color="black"> He looked after them as well as any horseman should look after his horses. And looking after his stock is exactly how he made money.
<font color="red"> Whose definition of looking after? Yours? JGs? Certainly not mine. My horses dont look anything like the ones from SF. But then they have enough food and vet treatment when needed so they dont drop down dead or need to be kicked to stand up.

<font color="black"> I have some questions of my own if you dont mind.

How many horses did you see in bad body condition? <font color="red"> Too many <font color="black"> And how long did he own those particular animals? <font color="red"> You know the answer to this (apparently) so why are you asking me?

<font color="black"> How do you know he was not treating those sick animals? <font color="red"> Because over 20 were dead

<font color="black"> How do you know those animals had not improved since he got them? <font color="red"> You obviously didnt pay attention when i answered this question earlier

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
QR

I just can't help myself!

Patty it is such a shame you 'left your notes somewhere' and are not able to present any proof to the forum that you have been promising.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt very much my notes would prove anything to you anyway. You wouldnt believe them anyway.

[ QUOTE ]


So JG bought the sick pony in to a filthy dirty barn intending to move it to one of the nice clean fluffy ones? Why didn't he take it to one of the nice clean fluffy ones straight away if it was sick?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there were other animals in the nice clean fluffy barns that needed moving around.

[ QUOTE ]
As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?

[/ QUOTE ]

According to witnesses from both sides.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, what proof do you have that the RSPCA moved them into the dirty barns for the video? With all the witnesses on site including police do you not think someone would have questioned it through the formal channels or are you saying that they were they all lying in court under oath?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

No they were not ALL lying under oath - Some just came right out and said how the animals were taken from the field and moved into that barn.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Patty, you seem passionate about defending JG and rubbishing the RSPCA. May I ask you three questions:

1. Have you ever been convicted of any animal cruelty charges?

[/ QUOTE ]

No never.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Have you ever had animals seized by the RSPCA?

[/ QUOTE ]

No never.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Have you had any dealings with the RSPCA before the JG case?

[/ QUOTE ]

No never.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the same question some pages ago and the reply I got :
[ QUOTE ]
Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically hearsay

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case all the oral evidence given by the prosecution witnesses is all hearsay?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As you did not go to the farm prior to the raid, how did you know the horses were not living in the dirty barns seen on the video? You say it is the truth - according to who as you didn't see it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked the same question some pages ago and the reply I got :
[ QUOTE ]
Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically hearsay

[/ QUOTE ]

Which means - and Patty feel free to answer this -

IT IS POSSIBLE that those conditions in the RSPCA photos are correct, that the horses were in filthy conditions as shows in the pictures taken there and then, and JG realising how much sh!t he was in (literally) could have cleaned out or bedded down empty barns so that when people came the next day - he could say look - take photos - my bedding is perfect?

So perfect there is not a dropping on it to show horses have been living in it...

That is possible isn't it?

And that Patty and others have seen just what JG wants them to see?

It might not be your opinion - but it IS possible as you were not there on the day of the raids or the day before, and all you have to go on is someone elses word?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, thats a total stupid possibilty. The RSPCA never gave notice that they were going to the farm. They just turned up.

 

[teddyt]

Question for patty - Why did the RSPCA just turn up at SF?
They must have had a reason to be there in the first place. The RSPCA dont just turn up for no reason.