horseygirl28
Well-Known Member
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Paddywhack are you a cross dresser?
Your secret will be safe with me
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Paddywhack are you a cross dresser?
Your secret will be safe with me
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What was Jamie Grays' line of business?
- Thread starter SpruceRI
- Start date
patty19
Well-Known Member
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And well said teddyt
This man is reportedly (by Patty) a horse trader.
But not trading in meat ponies? Most of the ponies shown had no 'meat' on them.
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Wrong!!! Most of the ponies had plenty of meat on them.
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And not as riding ponies given that many were young or pregnant.
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Where they ALL young or pregnent? No I didnt think so!
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He isn't a breeder as such.... the horses he buys in are already pregnant.
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SOMETIMES buys in pregnent mares. Some mares not in foal -some were stallions and geldings. Kind of impossible for them to get preggers wouldnt you say?
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As teddyt said, 2 people to look after over 100 horses at a time isn't enough, unless they all lived out on ample grazing and were fed like cattle at feeders by a tractor.
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Just goes to show how much you know about the running of a farm.
The troughs in the fields are self filling and the hosepipe in the middle of the yard reaches every pen.
JG did use a tractor to take large bales of hay into the fields but it was broken at the time of the raid. He used a large wheel barrow to distribute hay and hard feed around the barns. While his tractor was broken he used his vehicle to pull the bales of hay into the fields.
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So what EXACTLY is his trade?
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Horses.
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Who buys his horses and for what purpose?
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JG buys the horses.
To sell on.
And well said teddyt
This man is reportedly (by Patty) a horse trader.
But not trading in meat ponies? Most of the ponies shown had no 'meat' on them.
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Wrong!!! Most of the ponies had plenty of meat on them.
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And not as riding ponies given that many were young or pregnant.
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Where they ALL young or pregnent? No I didnt think so!
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He isn't a breeder as such.... the horses he buys in are already pregnant.
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SOMETIMES buys in pregnent mares. Some mares not in foal -some were stallions and geldings. Kind of impossible for them to get preggers wouldnt you say?
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As teddyt said, 2 people to look after over 100 horses at a time isn't enough, unless they all lived out on ample grazing and were fed like cattle at feeders by a tractor.
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Just goes to show how much you know about the running of a farm.
The troughs in the fields are self filling and the hosepipe in the middle of the yard reaches every pen.
JG did use a tractor to take large bales of hay into the fields but it was broken at the time of the raid. He used a large wheel barrow to distribute hay and hard feed around the barns. While his tractor was broken he used his vehicle to pull the bales of hay into the fields.
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So what EXACTLY is his trade?
[/ QUOTE ]
Horses.
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Who buys his horses and for what purpose?
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JG buys the horses.
To sell on.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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they DONT turn up unless somebody has raised a reason for them to turn up.
how do i know this? i used to work for the rspca.
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Yeah more bull!!
If you worked for the rspca your mouth would have run away with you long before now.
they DONT turn up unless somebody has raised a reason for them to turn up.
how do i know this? i used to work for the rspca.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah more bull!!
If you worked for the rspca your mouth would have run away with you long before now.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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I'm guessing that you're Anne Kasica then?
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If you're right Madhossy, that would explain a lot:
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Is this you Patty?
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Oh please!!
Heaven knows how many people I am supposed to be. Ask your friends who I am I'm sure they'll come up with several different names as they have done over the past 16 months.
I'm the queen of Sheba.
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I'm guessing that you're Anne Kasica then?
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If you're right Madhossy, that would explain a lot:
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Is this you Patty?
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Oh please!!
Heaven knows how many people I am supposed to be. Ask your friends who I am I'm sure they'll come up with several different names as they have done over the past 16 months.
I'm the queen of Sheba.
patty19
Well-Known Member
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So they were well covered when he bought them, but became emaciated in the time they were on his property, is what you're saying?
And then in the next breath, you say that's not true. No wonder we're all confused with your explanations.
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No I'm not saying that.
He had less than a handful of poor horses that he bought in but it does not mean those horses were half dead.
Answer me a some questions please.
Do you know that those animals did not arrive at SF in poor condition?
Do you know that their conditions had/had not improved since JG brought them?
Do you know how long he had owned them before they were seized?
So they were well covered when he bought them, but became emaciated in the time they were on his property, is what you're saying?
And then in the next breath, you say that's not true. No wonder we're all confused with your explanations.
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No I'm not saying that.
He had less than a handful of poor horses that he bought in but it does not mean those horses were half dead.
Answer me a some questions please.
Do you know that those animals did not arrive at SF in poor condition?
Do you know that their conditions had/had not improved since JG brought them?
Do you know how long he had owned them before they were seized?
TheresaW
Well-Known Member
And round and round we go again!
teddyt
Well-Known Member
Patty- no, meat trading isnt illegal. But travelling horses live for meat is unpalatable to alot of people. How exactly do you feel about the Hook not Hoof campaign?
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
Use the tune of "Rain rain go away"
"Patty Patty go away and don't come back another day"
And please use your brain for ONCE and don't quote me,
I CAN'T SEE IT IT AND PLUS I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU GOT TO SAY,YOU ARE A FAKE LIVING IN PATTYLAND WITH GREEN FROGS JUMPING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH,YOU KNOW ABSOLUTE NOTHING,I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HORSES AND YOU KNOW IT,J.G WAS FOUND GUILTY ACCEPT IT AND GET ON WITH YOUR SAD LITTLE LIFE....
WITH THAT OFF MY CHEST I AM OFF TO ENJOY THE REST OF MY DAY
"Patty Patty go away and don't come back another day"
And please use your brain for ONCE and don't quote me,
I CAN'T SEE IT IT AND PLUS I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU GOT TO SAY,YOU ARE A FAKE LIVING IN PATTYLAND WITH GREEN FROGS JUMPING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH,YOU KNOW ABSOLUTE NOTHING,I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HORSES AND YOU KNOW IT,J.G WAS FOUND GUILTY ACCEPT IT AND GET ON WITH YOUR SAD LITTLE LIFE....
WITH THAT OFF MY CHEST I AM OFF TO ENJOY THE REST OF MY DAY
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Patty- no, meat trading isnt illegal. But travelling horses live for meat is unpalatable to alot of people. How exactly do you feel about the Hook not Hoof campaign?
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
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Sad Patty is asleep across the continent
Patty- no, meat trading isnt illegal. But travelling horses live for meat is unpalatable to alot of people. How exactly do you feel about the Hook not Hoof campaign?
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
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Sad Patty is asleep across the continent
Rana
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
BUSHFIRE INQUIRY blog - : www.sosnews.org/bushfires
24/7 news service NEWSFRONT - : www.sosnews.org/newsfront
editor@sosnews.org
www.sosnews.org
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I'm sure this is very interesting, but it relates to the Australian RSPCA. A completely different organisation with it's own systems and politics.
BUSHFIRE INQUIRY blog - : www.sosnews.org/bushfires
24/7 news service NEWSFRONT - : www.sosnews.org/newsfront
editor@sosnews.org
www.sosnews.org
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure this is very interesting, but it relates to the Australian RSPCA. A completely different organisation with it's own systems and politics.
RantBucket
Well-Known Member
Maybe Patty is in Australia, the H&H administrator will know the answer to that.
jacks_mum
Well-Known Member
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Answer me a some questions please.
Do you know that their conditions had/had not improved since JG brought them?
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well I suppose death was an improvement for some of them, or perhaps more of a blessed release
Answer me a some questions please.
Do you know that their conditions had/had not improved since JG brought them?
[/ QUOTE ]
well I suppose death was an improvement for some of them, or perhaps more of a blessed release
horseygirl28
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Patty- no, meat trading isnt illegal. But travelling horses live for meat is unpalatable to alot of people. How exactly do you feel about the Hook not Hoof campaign?
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
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I think you need to get your facts straight.
And may I ask, how do you know for a fact JG sold horses for meat abroad??
I think the answer is you dont know that for a fact, because you are wrong.
Patty- no, meat trading isnt illegal. But travelling horses live for meat is unpalatable to alot of people. How exactly do you feel about the Hook not Hoof campaign?
Dont be so naive Patty, of course JG sold horses for meat abroad and he bought back horses from Holland because it makes more sense than bringing back an empty lorry. I suggest he didnt own up to selling horses for meat because somewhere along the line it wasnt all above board, hence he kept it quiet to avoid further investigation and the possible uncovering of a less than legal actvity or a more serious charge than animal cruelty. He may have sold some coloureds as riding horses but not the number of horses he got through. There just isnt the market for that number of non-descript horses. Other than in the meat trade.
Wake up Patty, i dont know what you have been told but live export for meat is JGs business, possibly with a little sideline. We're at page 19 now and you have had a fair chance at answering the question, so ive answered it for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you need to get your facts straight.
And may I ask, how do you know for a fact JG sold horses for meat abroad??
I think the answer is you dont know that for a fact, because you are wrong.
dozzie
Well-Known Member
But he was selling a lot of horses in Europe. How often did he take a lorry across to Belgium of Holland? He may not have been selling to the abbatoirs but he could have been selling to the farmers/dealers who fatten them.
But that is not a crime is it?
Maybe he was involved in bringing horses back for the French Rescue Sites too. Maybe dutch sport horses? Who knows? It is pure speculation. Again, not a crime in the eyes of the law providing all the paperwork is in order.
But that is not a crime is it?
Maybe he was involved in bringing horses back for the French Rescue Sites too. Maybe dutch sport horses? Who knows? It is pure speculation. Again, not a crime in the eyes of the law providing all the paperwork is in order.
gingermuffin
Member
Maybedaisey, the question of JG's previous conviction is very puzzling. looking at the court docs online RSPCA officer Phillip Wilson gave evidence to the court on the 28th January of a previous conviction on the 26th sept 2006 at West Herts Mags under the Animal Act 1911. On appeal at St Alban's Crown Court on the 15th Feb 2007 where the appeal against conviction and sentence was dismissed.
If that was incorrect surely the defence would have put it right?
As to the other charges that information was reported on line by Horse and Hound on the 2nd April and also 20th April.
Are they also wrong?
If that was incorrect surely the defence would have put it right?
As to the other charges that information was reported on line by Horse and Hound on the 2nd April and also 20th April.
Are they also wrong?
competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
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JG has been convicted
It is not the first time he has been investigated and found guilty in relation to offences of cruelty against his animals.
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I have explained about the previous offense and I hope it will be corrected at sentencing.
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Sorry patty I may have missed this but his previous conviction for animal cruelty in 2006 was upheld on appeal, why do you think/believe he won the appeal???
And does it really matter everyone whether he was a horse trader to the meat trade or not, I believe he was a dealer in all horses where he thought there maybe a quick pound in it, this may sometimes mean selling to the riding market, some to the meat etc etc. It really doesn't matter as it is irrelelvant to the case.
Whatever his business, there is no excuse for having 31 dead carcases on site, another 3 horses needing euthanasia on seisure and another 15 horses within hours of death if not seized immediately...... If your defense is that he bought these horses in this condition then he was obviously a bad dealer, why spend money on a horse that is near to death? There'd be no money to make in them, in fact it would cost him in vets bills, possible euthanasia and disposal (oh sorry he didn't dispose of them!!! LOL!)
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JG has been convicted
It is not the first time he has been investigated and found guilty in relation to offences of cruelty against his animals.
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I have explained about the previous offense and I hope it will be corrected at sentencing.
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Sorry patty I may have missed this but his previous conviction for animal cruelty in 2006 was upheld on appeal, why do you think/believe he won the appeal???
And does it really matter everyone whether he was a horse trader to the meat trade or not, I believe he was a dealer in all horses where he thought there maybe a quick pound in it, this may sometimes mean selling to the riding market, some to the meat etc etc. It really doesn't matter as it is irrelelvant to the case.
Whatever his business, there is no excuse for having 31 dead carcases on site, another 3 horses needing euthanasia on seisure and another 15 horses within hours of death if not seized immediately...... If your defense is that he bought these horses in this condition then he was obviously a bad dealer, why spend money on a horse that is near to death? There'd be no money to make in them, in fact it would cost him in vets bills, possible euthanasia and disposal (oh sorry he didn't dispose of them!!! LOL!)
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
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"And does it really matter everyone whether he was a horse trader to the meat trade or not, I believe he was a dealer in all horses where he thought there maybe a quick pound in it, this may sometimes mean selling to the riding market, some to the meat etc etc. It really doesn't matter as it is irrelelvant to the case.
Whatever his business, there is no excuse for having 31 dead carcases on site, another 3 horses needing euthanasia on seisure and another 15 horses within hours of death if not seized immediately...... If your defense is that he bought these horses in this condition then he was obviously a bad dealer, why spend money on a horse that is near to death? There'd be no money to make in them, in fact it would cost him in vets bills, possible euthanasia and disposal (oh sorry he didn't dispose of them!!! LOL!)"
This was the point of my question.
Trying to understand what his trade was?
I've no problem with meat traders either as long as the horses are properly cared for and transported all the time they are alive.
After all, it's no different to sheep/cattle farming.
But I just couldn't see why the chap would have emaciated horses in his barns.
Even if you bought them like that, you'd fatten them up for sale wouldn't you?
And he must have the paperwork for each horse that states when he bought it, so surely for the ones that were below correct weight, he could prove that he'd not had them long?
Again, that's my query? Had they started off being fine and got to that stage through his mis-management?
Even Patty can't answer that one surely? She didn't reside with JG? Or did she?
If he didn't keep his paperwork in order then he was truly an idiot.
Anyway, 19 pages later and I'm none the wiser, though it's been an interesting debate.
Over and out!
maybedaisy
Well-Known Member
Gingermuffin I don't understand your point. I said that he did have previous convictions.
Evidence of previous bad character/convictions are normally only heard at sentencing as they can prejudice the case.
Evidence of previous bad character/convictions are normally only heard at sentencing as they can prejudice the case.
maybedaisy
Well-Known Member
Patty its certainly not normal to find dead Horses on any yard.
Yes I agree horses can come onto yards in poor condition. We have one at the moment, but we don't have any dead ones. He maybe thin but he is clean, has a clean stable, plenty of food and is not crammed into a dirty barn.
Yes I agree horses can come onto yards in poor condition. We have one at the moment, but we don't have any dead ones. He maybe thin but he is clean, has a clean stable, plenty of food and is not crammed into a dirty barn.
jacks_mum
Well-Known Member
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There'd be no money to make in them, in fact it would cost him in vets bills, possible euthanasia and disposal (oh sorry he didn't dispose of them!!! LOL!)
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Not sure he was in to euthansia was he? More like let them drop and die
There'd be no money to make in them, in fact it would cost him in vets bills, possible euthanasia and disposal (oh sorry he didn't dispose of them!!! LOL!)
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Not sure he was in to euthansia was he? More like let them drop and die
Sugarplum Furry
Well-Known Member
Slightly off topic, but wasn't JG in court this week on transportation charges? Any news on that?
RhiannonE
Well-Known Member
After watching those videos and reading all about the evidence (I know you can't believe everything you read but surely the evidence has to be 99% factual & proved for it to be allowed to be used) I can't believe anyone would stick up for this guy.
I know not everyone has horses as pets and they are sometimes a business but that's no excuse to neglect them.
Madhossy- I also would like to know what his line of business was, just out of curiousity really! I suppose part of me thinks that whether he was trading them for meat, selling them as riding ponies or breeding from them surely he would have benefitted from treating them better?? No horse in poor condition will fetch much for anything so it doesn't make business sense! My uncle's a farmer and he breeds cattle for meat and all his cows live in huge barns etc -similar set up to this guy but everything is well looked after, the conditions are good etc - his cows are in good condition and he gets the best possible price for them.
If they supposedly "arrived in that condition" then why have so many when he obviously couldn't cope with them.
I don't suppose we will ever know what he really did business wise - not unless we ever meet someone who knew him or had business dealings with him! I live fairly near so maybe one day I might!
I know not everyone has horses as pets and they are sometimes a business but that's no excuse to neglect them.
Madhossy- I also would like to know what his line of business was, just out of curiousity really! I suppose part of me thinks that whether he was trading them for meat, selling them as riding ponies or breeding from them surely he would have benefitted from treating them better?? No horse in poor condition will fetch much for anything so it doesn't make business sense! My uncle's a farmer and he breeds cattle for meat and all his cows live in huge barns etc -similar set up to this guy but everything is well looked after, the conditions are good etc - his cows are in good condition and he gets the best possible price for them.
If they supposedly "arrived in that condition" then why have so many when he obviously couldn't cope with them.
I don't suppose we will ever know what he really did business wise - not unless we ever meet someone who knew him or had business dealings with him! I live fairly near so maybe one day I might!
gingermuffin
Member
Maybedaisy, I think it's now possible to put evidence of aprevious offence to the court. The DJ referred to the2006 conviction in his findings of fact on page 12 paragraph 43.
Patty had been denying that the conviction still held and I was trying to make the point that the defence hadn't questioned it.
The last bit was to make the point that it wasn't just a case of sorting out a little muddle but that there were still outstanding cases according to H and H news.
I tried to find out the result from the Court and also Kent trading Standards but they wouldn't give out any info.
Sorry for the confusion, trying to multitask, looking after baby granddaughter and horses and failing miserably!
Patty had been denying that the conviction still held and I was trying to make the point that the defence hadn't questioned it.
The last bit was to make the point that it wasn't just a case of sorting out a little muddle but that there were still outstanding cases according to H and H news.
I tried to find out the result from the Court and also Kent trading Standards but they wouldn't give out any info.
Sorry for the confusion, trying to multitask, looking after baby granddaughter and horses and failing miserably!
jrp204
Well-Known Member
After 20 sodding pages this argument is getting nowhere, i still don't understand why Patty is still defending this man. She says she's not sh*gging him, is she his mother? for gods sake why would anyone fight his corner when he has several convictions for virtually the same thing! As to his line of business perhaps he runs continental tours for horses, may explain all the to ing and fro ing, but no one has told him he supposed to feed his customers as well as himself.
RhiannonE
Well-Known Member
I agree - she has to have some connection with this man because why else would she back him up so much even though the courts have found him guilty on several charges??
Maybe she's a friend of the teenage son.
Maybe she's a friend of the teenage son.
PoppyAnderson
Well-Known Member
patty - question for you. The thinest, poorest looking horses on the farm, how long had they been in JGs possession, ie, how long had he owned them for?
Tea_Biscuit
Member
I'm convinced that Patty's true motivation in this case has little to do with the guilt or innocence of JG and everything to do with her mistrust of the RSPCA and other like organisations. Whatever her issue is with these groups the JG case - and this forum - provided a very public platform for her to push her own agenda whatever it may be.
I daresay that if the condition of those animals had become public and no one moved to rescue them Patty would be shouting just as loudly - about the 'bad RSPCA and how could they allow this to continue'.
I daresay that if the condition of those animals had become public and no one moved to rescue them Patty would be shouting just as loudly - about the 'bad RSPCA and how could they allow this to continue'.
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
ive edited my post, it was a reply to patty and to be frank shes really not worth any of my effort, we all know shes full of utter tosh.
RantBucket
Well-Known Member
What time is it in Pattyland?
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
not dark yet.. she wont rise for a bit LOL