What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

[patty19]

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For what its worth, I think that the corpses found in the field was horses that were imports and were used to bring drugs into the country the same what they do with dogs, but then thats just my thoughts.

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You are very close to the truth there

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As wrong as you are I have to say that the contents of your comment could never be attributed to yourself because you're always so full of crap.

Like I said - [****] flies from didcot.

 

[patty19]

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In my opinion i think you are all talking a load rubbish.

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For what its worth, I think that the corpses found in the field was horses that were imports and were used to bring drugs into the country the same what they do with dogs, but then thats just my thoughts.

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You are very close to the truth there

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Paddywhack, what proof do you have of this to be able to make such a sweeping statment??

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NONE - PW is just full of verbal diarrhea. And going by some of the comments from other posters on this thread it seems it may be contagious.

 

[SpruceRI]

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Sounds a stupid question I know, but reading the transcript from the Court, what did he actually do with the horses he bought from markets?

Surely starving them would bring in less meat money, than fattening them up?

Or did he just have too many in, and couldn't cope with the turnover?


www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgment_guidance/index.htm <font color="red"> </font>

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He was a horse trader - not a meat trader as some have said.

He imported and exported horses to and from Holland and Belgium but it appears his main dealings were here in the UK.

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It is said that he bought horses from Holland, but why? And he sells back again. But why?

I don't understand where there is money to to be earnt here?

Surely it is cheaper fuel-wise to at least buy horses of a similar ilk in this country?

And more profit to sell in this country too? If they're not meat ponies, and certainly not riding ponies, what is the trade?

 

[patty19]

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It is said that he bought horses from Holland, but why?

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Duh, it's what some traders DO.


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And he sells back again. But why?

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I didnt say he takes the SAME horses back.

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I don't understand where there is money to to be earnt here?

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Going by your 2 previous comments I can quiet believe that you dont understand.

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Surely it is cheaper fuel-wise to at least buy horses of a similar ilk in this country?

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I said he did business in THIS COUNTRY also.

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And more profit to sell in this country too? If they're not meat ponies, and certainly not riding ponies, what is the trade?

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You obviously DONT understand much about horse trading.
See above. Also, it was said that he sells alot of coloured horses in holland.

And yes, he did riding ponies too - as well as trotters.

 

[Onyxia]

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ask patty she will know

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She will tell us that although she has vital evidence to prove what the rest of the world know to be fact is not true,but cant possibly tell

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So YOU and the rest of the world KNOW that the ridiclous claims on this thread are FACTS?

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See the

? Means it's a cheeky post,not a serious one

I dont know the ins and outs,and I doubt that you do.
If you knew and could prove as much as you say you would have been part of the trial not just in court to watch.
I have not tried to second guess any event,we dont know how or why the dead horses ended up on the ground half rotted away so dont see any value to trying to guess why that happened or trying to guess why there where horses in poor health at the farm.

I do,however trust the evidence provided by the Horse Trust and co,as did a court of law.
I cant see any gain to the charities from this but mostly,if I had been inJG's shoes with my personal and professional name being dragged through the shite the first thing I would do is get online and post EVERY photo of healthy horses I had on EVERY horse forum out there-and yes I know he couldnt have dont that one he was charged,but there was a fair while between the horses being taken and charges being made.
IF it is all lies,from the first second I would have been telling anyone who would listen my side of the story,JG diddnt seem to care

 

[miss_bird]

I cannot see why that man would pay for horses in bad condition and ship them to the uk for profit, i say this as i am moving back to the UK with my horses and it costs a fortune, so you would not be shipping horses in unless there was a profit, and seeing the way he left his horses i cannot see a profit in that as a dealer.
Yes there is either another reason or he is the most dumb business man on the planet

 

[Paddywhack]

I am loving this thread,a raw nerve has been touched and some people are getting very aggresive/defensive

I don't know the inside out but living very locally to the smithies and the story is that J.G is in an illegal business using his ponies for a different purpose than we think,that's why he has been stopped so many times transporting his ponies,they are keeping an eye on him that.s the reason why some are neglected since they have served the purpose and are not needed anymore......His family in Iver wants nothing to do with him,they also use my local tack shop and are very chatty and are not being quiet about it..the local smithies are not happy J.G since not all traveler families are bad

 

[M_G]

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Sounds a stupid question I know, but reading the transcript from the Court, what did he actually do with the horses he bought from markets?

Surely starving them would bring in less meat money, than fattening them up?

Or did he just have too many in, and couldn't cope with the turnover?


www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgment_guidance/index.htm <font color="red"> </font>

It is said that he bought horses from Holland, but why? And he sells back again. But why?

I don't understand where there is money to to be earnt here?

Surely it is cheaper fuel-wise to at least buy horses of a similar ilk in this country?

And more profit to sell in this country too? If they're not meat ponies, and certainly not riding ponies, what is the trade?

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Quite a few dealers in the UK will take over to Holland/Belgium a lorry full of UK youngsters (usually coloured pikey ponys) and bring back a lorry load of warmbloods its common practice

 

[gingermuffin]

I'm so pleased to have brightened poor Patty's dreary night time hours!
I used to work in Dover and it was not uncommon for illegal good to be smuggled in horseboxes and trailers. The confiscated trailers were lined up underneath the viaduct and they and the horses went to auction after the trial.
And talking of trials Mr Gray is in Folkestone Mags on the 27th and 28th of May. The case is being brought by Kent Trading Standards and relates to tranportation offences. One charge I believe relates to travelling horses in a lorry with inadequate partitions. One has to ask why anybody travelling a horse with value, unlike a meat animal, would want to risk damaging it?

 

[horseygirl28]

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In my opinion i think you are all talking a load rubbish.

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For what its worth, I think that the corpses found in the field was horses that were imports and were used to bring drugs into the country the same what they do with dogs, but then thats just my thoughts.

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You are very close to the truth there

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Paddywhack, what proof do you have of this to be able to make such a sweeping statment??

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NONE - PW is just full of verbal diarrhea. And going by some of the comments from other posters on this thread it seems it may be contagious.

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I totally agree with you patty.

 

[horseygirl28]

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I am loving this thread,a raw nerve has been touched and some people are getting very aggresive/defensive

I don't know the inside out but living very locally to the smithies and the story is that J.G is in an illegal business using his ponies for a different purpose than we think,that's why he has been stopped so many times transporting his ponies,they are keeping an eye on him that.s the reason why some are neglected since they have served the purpose and are not needed anymore......His family in Iver wants nothing to do with him,they also use my local tack shop and are very chatty and are not being quiet about it..the local smithies are not happy J.G since not all traveler families are bad

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Paddywhack it seems clear to me you really like stirring up trouble.

 

[Happy Horse]

Interesting to see you changed your post horseygirl - why the change of heart? I also see the odd lame sheep in a field but never two days running so presumably they are removed and treated. Not many farmers have bodies of rotting animals lying about their farms to arouse interest either.

 

[horseygirl28]

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Interesting to see you changed your post horseygirl - why the change of heart? I also see the odd lame sheep in a field but never two days running so presumably they are removed and treated. Not many farmers have bodies of rotting animals lying about their farms to arouse interest either.

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In my opinion i just think that everything Paddywhack is saying on this thread is total rubbish. And the statements that Paddywhack has made on this thread have NO proof to back them up, so in my opinion they are all false statements.

 

[Happy Horse]

Patty has nothing to back up her statements either yet you believe her!

 

[the watcher]

I have no idea how he made any money, since most of the horses he appeared to purchase were very much at the lower end of the scale and there was no real sign of them being brought on as suitable riding horses, or having their condition improved to the point where they would attract a higher price.

However, i have seen this before, having had dealings with people (almost exclusively travellers) who have horses - because they say it is in their blood, in their family and in their traditions, and often neglect those horses to the point of starvation and death. i don't understand those people either.

And when JG had horses removed from him and obviously didn't have the proper facilities or time or possibly funds to provide for those, he was seen out at sales buying more, by the lorry load.

It is all a bit beyond me.

 

[Quadro]

patty you say that PW has verbal diaorrea (sp) but the phrase "pot, kettle, and black" spring to mind !!!!!

 

[dozzie]

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Not many farmers have bodies of rotting animals lying about their farms to arouse interest either.

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That is because the disposal laws for farm animals are much clearer. Farmers are required, by law, to have fallen stock removed within 24 hours.

In Europe the rules would be the same for horses but over here the situation is different as horses are not considered agricultural animals.

It is partially explained on the Defra website.

TBH I couldnt find much out about the law in regards to disposal of horses.

 

[Happy Horse]

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Not many farmers have bodies of rotting animals lying about their farms to arouse interest either.

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That is because the disposal laws for farm animals are much clearer. Farmers are required, by law, to have fallen stock removed within 24 hours.

In Europe the rules would be the same for horses but over here the situation is different as horses are not considered agricultural animals.

It is partially explained on the Defra website.

TBH I couldnt find much out about the law in regards to disposal of horses.

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From the DEFRA website:

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ll horses when they die (unless they are kept as pets – see Q&amp;A below) must be disposed of without delay in accordance with the EU Animal By-Products Regulation 2002. This means they must be delivered to a premises approved under the regulation for proper collection and disposal (e.g. hunt kennels, knacker yard, incinerator operator).

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Clearly the quantity of animals he was keeping were not pets so he was in breach. Details can be read here http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/by-prods/fallen/horses.htm

In theory if he applied to the local authority and managed to pursuade them that each and every animal that died was a family pet then he may be ok to bury them but I think it is safe to say the local authority knew nothing about the rotting bodies and that they were most definiteyl not family pets (unless Patty can prove otherwise!)

More info here http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/by-prods/fallen/disposalqa.htm#2

The DEFRA website also states that where fallen animals have to be kept awaiting collection FOR A REASONABLE TIME they should be securely covered to prevent access by carnivorous animals.

 

[dozzie]

That is what I read too. Some of the horses were part of his business and some were pets he had had for a long time. He may well have had permission to bury his pets. Again, our own prejudices make us assume he didnt.

Defra suggests that fallen stock should be covered in Tarpaulin or similar. Who can say they werent before the RSPCA took the photos? The RSPCA would have had to remove covers to get the photos. Of course, if they were proved to have been covered the likes of certain people would scream that he was trying to cover up the evidence. LOL! So a bit of a no win situation really!

 

[Happy Horse]

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That is what I read too. Some of the horses were part of his business and some were pets he had had for a long time. He may well have had permission to bury his pets. Again, our own prejudices make us assume he didnt.

Defra suggests that fallen stock should be covered in Tarpaulin or similar. Who can say they werent before the RSPCA took the photos? The RSPCA would have had to remove covers to get the photos. Of course, if they were proved to have been covered the likes of certain people would scream that he was trying to cover up the evidence. LOL! So a bit of a no win situation really!

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It is easy enough to find out if there was permission to bury any animals. It has to be granted by the local authorities. Either way the bodies were not going to be disposed of within a 'reasonable time' to get in that state - covered or not although it does say in the court documents that the dogs were eating the carcasses. Patty has also said the rain affected the decomposition so it sounds from her as if they were uncovered as well. I think I have read about one dead animal that was a pet (a shetland or a donkey) and he was supposed to be getting a part for a machine. There was no mention at all the other dead ones were pets.

I am sorry I can't see any justification for it and I don't see how anyone else can although you are entitled to your opinion. By the way I asked you if in your opinion the horses I posted pictures of from the video with the damaged eye and the severe diarrhoea were suffering - I'd be interested to hear your views? What would your advice be if someone posted them on the forum looking for advice?

 

[siennamum]

I'm quite suprised you are defending JG/Patty tbh Dozzie. You always strike me as 'normal' and yet are agreeing with a poster who is delusional &amp; has a wierd agenda and a man who starved and abused hundreds of horses. Don't get it tbh.

When travellers move on from sites it's not unusual to find dead horses shoved in ditches, by and large their animals are worm ridden half starved and abused.
Why it's difficult for you to accept that JG did all of the above but on a more industrial scale is odd.
Those of us who know what travellers do to their poor horses are entirely unsuprised at his actions and can see why the RSPCA &amp; the like went out of their way to shut him &amp; his vile family down.
Shame they can't be starved, beaten and made to live in their own [****] really.

 

[Paddywhack]

Paddywhack it seems clear to me you really like stirring up trouble.

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Yeah right and you are not ??????? I am local here and it's very obvious that I know hell of a lot more than you do,It's COMMON knowledge around here so unless you live in this area please be quiet

 

[brighteyes]

Well, there are always two sides to a story. Just can't imagine a good enough one in this instance.

 

[RantBucket]

Yes that's true, one side that thinks animal cruelty is totally unacceptable and must be punished, and the other that spends lots and lots of time searching for reasons why they must tell us that good old JG is an OK sort of guy, and all this is some terrible misunderstanding and that the courts have made a ghastly mistake in finding him and his lovely family guilty.

 

[teddyt]

Just feel like putting my view on this forward. Havnt followed all of his closely, so have only just watched the video of all the dead horses, thin ones, etc. It actually bought a lump to my throat, the suffering was sickening. How anyone can justify the apalling state of those horses is beyond me. There IS NO JUSTIFICATION. So....
I appreciate the drug smuggling story may seem far fetched to some but not to me. Its a distinct possibility. There has to be a sideline there somewhere. I just dont get that a dealer would be so addicted to buying horses that he just left some to die because he had so many. Others taking pot luck if they were sold on or left to rot. Maybe it was a numbers game, JG literally just picking random horses to move on and make a few quid. If one got ill he just left it to recover or die. However i strongly suspect there is more to this whole story.

Whatever the situation the Gray family are sick. They have no morals, conscience or sense of shame. Anyone who can keep animals in those conditions (or in the case of PATTY - anyone justifying those conditions) deserves to experience those conditions themselves. They should suffer, as the horses have. Word actually fail me to describe how apalled i am.

 

[patty19]

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See the

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Ok, my bad - sorry.

 

[Fizzimyst]

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I thought it was urine too.

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Yep its PMU Pregnant Mares Urine

 

[RantBucket]

Well said teddyt, you have said exactly what the great silent majority must be thinking. It's a shame the rather too vocal minority of JG’s loyal disciples don’t keep their ludicrous ideas to themselves! After all he has just lost the case – show a bit of decency and keep silent until after JG is in prison please you are embarrassing yourselves.

 

[siennamum]

Ditto, quite right Teddyt.

 

[patty19]

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I am loving this thread,a raw nerve has been touched and some people are getting very aggresive/defensive

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Aggresive? By telling people what I'm sure some of them already know - that you are full of [****]?


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I don't know the inside out

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That is the truest thing I have seen come from you in the past 16 months. Keep it up

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but living very locally to the smithies and the story is that J.G is in an illegal business using his ponies for a different purpose than we think,that's why he has been stopped so many times transporting his ponies,they are keeping an eye on him that.s the reason why some are neglected since they have served the purpose and are not needed anymore......

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Oh silly me - I was starting to think you were recovering from verbal diarrhea. The "Smithies" who you keep banging on about are friends of JG. The 3 brothers A. Smith, J. Smith, and the other A. Smith. There are more of this family but here's just 3 to keep you on your toes.

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His family in Iver wants nothing to do with him,they also use my local tack shop and are very chatty and are not being quiet about it..the local smithies are not happy J.G since not all traveler families are bad

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Bla bla bla......more [****] flies from didcot. Oh, and just incase like most things that you have not got a clue about - JG is NOT a traveler.

One of his sisters is a school teachter - something I doubt very much would be the career choice of a traveling woman.

I apologize to any Traveler who may be on this forum. I'm not prejudice in any way shape or form....