What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

[dozzie]

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[ QUOTE ]


In January!! You must have some pretty amazing grass where you come from!

[/ QUOTE ]

I do have good grass yes but probably should have said changes in the sugar levels which can occur at that time of year due to the frosts etc. Hence why some horses get laminitis in January even though they may not be overweight.

Whatever.

I dont believe my vet would have put down that horse without further tests first. I will ask him at some point.

 

[jhoward]

im just going to point out that patty hasnt said anything new atall.

every word that she has spat out has been near enough exactley the same info that is avalible to us all via the details of the case.

she doesnt know anything guys, only the voices in her own head.

 

[RantBucket]

That's true jhoward, maybe she should have counselling for the voices!

 

[gingermuffin]

Patty, please don't trouble yourself with finding out about JG's attendance at Folkestone Mags this week. I shall contact the listings office first thing on Tuesday morning for confirmation of the date and exact charges.
Unfortunately I am unable to believe everything you have been told and passed on to this forum to be the truth, please note that I am not suggesting that you have lied.
You may remember your absolute denial that JG had a previous criminal conviction, you claimed he won on appeal whereas the truth was the 2006 conviction was upheld.
Following through with my legal thread, does anyone know the outcome of the hearing on the 20th April at High Wycombe Mags where JG was facing 3 charges of failing to disclose a criminal record when applying for a transportation licence and 2 counts of failing to dispose of animal carcasses?

 

[brighteyes]

<font color="blue">“Patty Wainthropp” </font>

Sorry, that's sooo funny

 

[the watcher]

patty, I am entitled as the next person to have a view and express it - you are just as entitled to believe i am wrong, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Setting aside anything I might have known about JG before the raid and seizures, there is no real mention in any of the court papers regarding JG having any interest in properly producing animals for sale. He should have been able to produce a passport of each and every animal, together with a vaccination record, together with some notes as to veterinary treatment if necessary, together with notes on how the animal is to handle and to ride or drive, whether it loads well, is good for the farrier (that's a laugh, but let's play this game a little longer) and dentist and some kind of schedule for feeding for condition and workload.

Workload - ha, there is no sign at all that any of these animals were ridden or driven regularly - they certainly were not being produced as working animals. This raises the question, what were they to be sold as?

So, my opinion stands. these were either cheap badly bred animals, or nicer horses that had fallen on hard times into the unsympathetic and cruel hands of this family.

To address your point on travellers and horses - do you see the world through rose tinted glasses? Yes, some have very nice horses - an equal number or more have skinny inbred knackers.

How did he have the money to buy more horses? Cr*p horses are cheap at auction, you could fill a lorry for £1000 - it would cost you a good deal more than that to keep and feed them though - this is where the effects of the economic crunch can be seen throughout the country as horses are being sold, sent to rescue centres or just discarded as they cost money to keep properly.

 

[shellonabeach]

PATTY

Spaniel asked a question on the post started by jhoward which you omitted to answer:

[ QUOTE ]
PATTY.....Given that you are so adament that you saw all these proceedings in court and that YOU saw these photos when they were produced in court could you answer something for me please??

Exactly HOW were you able to SEE all this evidence given, you are not on either the prosecution or the defence team???

There was no jury in this case so I must assume you were in the public gallery....do you have xray vision or maybe binoculars??

I would like a proper answer please not just the standard I was there and I saw rubbish that you have been coming out with....

[/ QUOTE ]

I for one would be very interested to hear your answer to this question.

And while you are at it please would you provide me with the information "from your notes" which you promised regarding the sick horses on the SF video.

 

[horseygirl28]

[ QUOTE ]
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Patty has nothing to back up her statements either yet you believe her!

[/ QUOTE ]

But Pattys statements do not need backing up because i know they are all true.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this how exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just do

 

[gingermuffin]

PMSL!!!!!
Now going back out into the sunshine to enjoy another Pimms
Cheers!

 

[competitiondiva]

Patty please could you answer me a question?...

You state that JG sold horses abroad to Holland and other countries and by your own admission he bought low end quality horses and ponies. What was he selling these animals abroad for if not meat???? If this is the case he clearly is in the meat market.

This of course bares no relevance to the case, it's just that you have denied that he is in the meat trade so I wondered what he sold these horses for?

Also I just want to clarify one thing?

In your view then if JG is innocent of charges then can you guarantee that every horse, pony and donkey at SF which was sick, injured and/or underweight received the correct feeding, veterinary medication and care each needed? And this could be proved with veterinary records????

 

[dozzie]

http://www.irishcob.nl/IndexEng.htm

I thought the same as you but there clearly is a market for irish cobs on the continent.

There are also organisations for Irish/traditionals in other European countries too.

ETA Found this too.
http://irishcobsociety.net/Belgie/

 

[teddyt]

PATTY- Som more questions for you to answer please, seeing as you know so much about JG-

1) You are against animal cruelty and believe it should be punished. Can you explain, exactly, why you dont feel the horses in the videos of SF are suffering? I.e. why you think its acceptable for horses to have their eyes closed through infection, unable to stand, etc?
2) Just why were there so many dead horses? If JG treated poorly animals (as i expect you wil say in answer to Q1) then why were there so may dead and ill ones? And why werent they disposed of when dead?
3) If, as you say, JG was dealing in riding horses, why were so many of the horses either dead, half dead, seriously ill/emaciated, scared and unhandled. If he had these horses to make money how exactly was he making money on horses in such a state?
4) You said in a previous post that JG bought more lorry loads of horses, in response to someone who thought maybe he couldnt afford to keep the original ones. Why exactly did he do this when clearly the ones he already had were in a state?

All in all my point is that you maintain JG is not guilty of animal cruelty and dealt in riding horses. Yet the overwhelming evidence suggests otherwise, hence he was found guilty. Exactly why he had those horses is unclear, but you certainly havnt presented any evidence to back up your claims they were well cared for and produced for riding. There is a sordid reason for his ownership of those horses and as i said earlier, no justification whatsoever for the state they were in.

 

[Happy Horse]

Patty still hasn't been able to answer the question why a supposedly genuine caring dealer didn't bother to have any post mortems carried out when his horses began dying of unknown causes. He made no attempt to identify the cause and had no way of knowing whether it would spread to the other horses. He was happy to just let them rot.

 

[Happy Horse]

[ QUOTE ]
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Patty has nothing to back up her statements either yet you believe her!

[/ QUOTE ]

But Pattys statements do not need backing up because i know they are all true.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this how exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just do

[/ QUOTE ]

It must be true then! Did you know the word gullible has been taken out of the dictionary?

 

[RantBucket]

I think nocturnal Patty will be jumping out of bed any time now, ready to give us the benefit of her pearls of wisdom – O goody gumdrops!

 

[QUICKFIRE]

IMO I think nocturnal pratty is in the same bed as JG and is as disillusional as him if she thinks thoses horses were well looked after, perhaps she is on the drugs he was smuggling,

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
The beds were NOT in the condition as reported

They quite clearly are in all the images with horses in shown in the video. You have shown a picture of an empty barn and a close up of some fresh straw. Like I say you have shown nothing to prove what you are saying - the video shows the evidence to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO they was not. That barn was not being used. I have explained this and this was given in evidence in court. Plus Claire Ryder told the court that she never had any concerns about the beds, feed, water..etc. That barn was used for those photos. I dont expect you to believe me but it's the truth.


I showed you beds that were at the farm when I went there on the 10th of Jan 08. And I showed you a bed with a little donkey lying down and part of her mother can be seen standing beside her.

I am not disagreeing that the barn in the video was not good but that is not all Mr Grays barns.....those animals were moved into that barn by the RSPCA.

Mr Gray was having that barn cleared out on the 9th when the RSPCA arrived and got the police to stop the man in his machine from doing any more. Kirsty Hampton denied this in court but her peers didn't. They told the court exactly what Mr Gray told the court.

The photos of the haystack, a close up photo of the fresh straw, and the photo that looks a bit blury of a barn with straw, were taken by me on the 10th of Jan 08.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]


So you went the day after the seizures so had no idea of the conditions the horses were actually being kept in as you did not see any horses in any of the barns during your visit? Is this correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is absolutey correct.

However, Claire Ryder knew the conditions and how they were being kept, and she didnt have a problem with it. Kirsty Hampton like me, didnt have a clue but she saw one dirty bed and overlooked the rest which were clean. Notice how she didnt mention these beds nor the fact that she had a man removed who was cleaning that barn when they arrived at SF.

Who informed the media?

Who wanted the publicity?

How did that news helicoptor know were to hover?

Where is the justification for the RSPCA to walk onto someones property, kill 3 horses plus a foal, refuse the owner the right to a second opinion, and not offer an independent post mortem, then destroy the evidence?

Then to make allegations that 111 horses were starved or emaciated. Some were emaciated without a doubt, but not 111! (2 or 3 I believe - one was a rescue by JG)

The RSPCA had no idea at that time if JG had owned them a day a week or a month. They should not have made those allegations.

Yet good old KH and RS gave live press interviews claiming all this.


Please people dont ever be so naive to think you and your animals are safe - YOU'RE NOT!!

 

[bexandspooky]

*sighs* Patty, I shall ask my questions for the 3rd time - my post that was ignored in the other post is copied below in Purple writing.

If you want people to believe what you are saying, you are going to have to start answering some of this stuff

<font color="purple">Ok - I understand that you havent ever said all of the dead horses were dug up, but that wasn't actually the question I asked.

I shall break it down into a few more basic lines so that we are both clear what it is I am trying to establish

1 - What connection do you have with the greys?

2 - Why do you have such an interest in this case?

3 - For what purpose are you collating this information?

4 - Do you have evidence of the horses that were dug up?

5 - Why did the horses in the above photo's remain decomposing for such a long period of time (note - due to the level of decomposition, I am assuming the length of time was more than say 'a couple of weeks' which would more than compensate for any christmas period delays)

As you say that you have answered these things before and they were lost, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering them again?!

Many thanks and look forward to your clarification!
</font>

Your ignoring of questions like this make you difficult to believe.

 

[Happy Horse]

Don't be ridiculous - those barns had horses in them to get into those conditions and the barns with the horses in and the pony down by the trough are disgusting! It's funny he complains about not being offered a post mortem when he chose not to have any done himself when the horses started dying.

If JG knew someone was going in for a look the next day he could well have put fresh beds down so you would try and convince people that is how they were. The pictures tell a different story and you can't deny that. Your pictures prove nothing at all and as you never actually saw any of the animals on the day they were seized you really know nothing at all about what the vets and Inspectors reported. As has been said many times you haven't proved anything despite saying you have evidence that would do so.

Is there anyone in the case that you are not accusing of lying other than JG and his prosecution witnesses? It is a cover up to end all cover ups if your story is to be believed.

Still I am sure the sentence will prove the case

By the way other than spouting off on here are you doing anything else if you are so convinced he is innocent?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]


Sorry so your civilized then?as you yourself have used that before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not - but then I'm not the one making the claim that I'm never rude.

[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you stop beating around the bush and answer the questions that you keep avoiding?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have answered questions over and over again. But if people dont wish to reply like civilized adults then I wont answer like one.

Sorry but I do not respect people being are uncivil to me - so they can stick their questions where the sun dont shine. Rude? Yes, I believe so.

 

[RantBucket]

F5
F5
F5
I wonder if Patty will answer bexandspooky questions, this will be interesting.....
F5
F5
F5
No not yet....

 

[brighteyes]

It's like Groundhog Day.

 

[RantBucket]

Come on people say “pretty please” when asking Patty a question
And “thank you very much” when she replies or you will never get a proper reply

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]
PATTY- Som more questions for you to answer please, seeing as you know so much about JG-

1) You are against animal cruelty and believe it should be punished. Can you explain, exactly, why you dont feel the horses in the videos of SF are suffering? I.e. why you think its acceptable for horses to have their eyes closed through infection, unable to stand, etc?
2) Just why were there so many dead horses? If JG treated poorly animals (as i expect you wil say in answer to Q1) then why were there so may dead and ill ones? And why werent they disposed of when dead?
3) If, as you say, JG was dealing in riding horses, why were so many of the horses either dead, half dead, seriously ill/emaciated, scared and unhandled. If he had these horses to make money how exactly was he making money on horses in such a state?
4) You said in a previous post that JG bought more lorry loads of horses, in response to someone who thought maybe he couldnt afford to keep the original ones. Why exactly did he do this when clearly the ones he already had were in a state?

All in all my point is that you maintain JG is not guilty of animal cruelty and dealt in riding horses. Yet the overwhelming evidence suggests otherwise, hence he was found guilty. Exactly why he had those horses is unclear, but you certainly havnt presented any evidence to back up your claims they were well cared for and produced for riding. There is a sordid reason for his ownership of those horses and as i said earlier, no justification whatsoever for the state they were in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Patty, here is my previous post, maybe you missed it so havnt answered my questions? They are genuine questions and it would be helpful if you could answer them.

 

[bexandspooky]

Anything Patty?

Do you have me on user ignore perhaps?

I hope not as I believe that I have been nothing but civil and inquisitive - look forward to your reply.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
patty, I am entitled as the next person to have a view and express it - you are just as entitled to believe i am wrong, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you are but when you say things like....

there was no real sign of them being brought on as suitable riding horses, or having their condition improved to the point where they would attract a higher price.

I have to ask the following questions.....

How do you know that Mr Gray was not trying to improve their conditions?

How do you know that they had not improved since Mr Gray brought them?

How do you know that none of the animals were riding horses?

How do you know that none of them were riding horses when Mr Gray brought them?

[ QUOTE ]
Setting aside anything I might have known about JG before the raid and seizures, there is no real mention in any of the court papers regarding JG having any interest in properly producing animals for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell there's no evidence that he starved his animals to death - that he's a meat man or drug smuggler. Thats all nothing but rubbish.


[ QUOTE ]
He should have been able to produce a passport of each and every animal, together with a vaccination record, together with some notes as to veterinary treatment if necessary, together with notes on how the animal is to handle and to ride or drive, whether it loads well, is good for the farrier (that's a laugh, but let's play this game a little longer) and dentist and some kind of schedule for feeding for condition and workload.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he showed none of the above? Nor explained where some of those documents were? Or the court could not have got those documents as Mr Gray suggested they do?

Sorry to burst your bubble MH but all the documents Mr Gray produced to the court refuted every claim the RSPCA bought against him.


[ QUOTE ]
Workload - ha, there is no sign at all that any of these animals were ridden or driven regularly - they certainly were not being produced as working animals. This raises the question, what were they to be sold as?

[/ QUOTE ]

What proof do you expect then?

[ QUOTE ]
So, my opinion stands. these were either cheap badly bred animals, or nicer horses that had fallen on hard times into the unsympathetic and cruel hands of this family.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did tell the forum that PW's condition was contagious.

Have you seen those colts? They dont look to badly bred to me tbh. Have you seen the shetlands and donkys? They look pretty good bred too.

[ QUOTE ]
To address your point on travellers and horses - do you see the world through rose tinted glasses? Yes, some have very nice horses - an equal number or more have skinny inbred knackers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.....dont mean they starve or neglect them though. And a good horse makes a traveling man very proud.

[ QUOTE ]
How did he have the money to buy more horses? Cr*p horses are cheap at auction, you could fill a lorry for £1000 - it would cost you a good deal more than that to keep and feed them though - this is where the effects of the economic crunch can be seen throughout the country as horses are being sold, sent to rescue centres or just discarded as they cost money to keep properly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Mr Gray was short of money but brought horses by the lorry load to do what with them exactly?

 

[tania01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Sorry so your civilized then?as you yourself have used that before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not - but then I'm not the one making the claim that I'm never rude.

[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you stop beating around the bush and answer the questions that you keep avoiding?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have answered questions over and over again. But if people dont wish to reply like civilized adults then I wont answer like one.

Sorry but I do not respect people being are uncivil to me - so they can stick their questions where the sun dont shine. Rude? Yes, I believe so.

[/ QUOTE ]



PATTY i will ask you nicely yet again for the 5th time.


How can you prove what you know when you never knew of the grays before this came to light.?

You never knew of there lifestyle before but seem to or been fed crap before, can you prove ther innocent before this came to light?

Can you answer the questions that everyone keeps asking you that you keep on avoiding?

 

[dozzie]

Patty has stated she didnt know them and isnt related to them.

She has answered the question time and time again.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
PATTY

Spaniel asked a question on the post started by jhoward which you omitted to answer:

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
PATTY.....Given that you are so adament that you saw all these proceedings in court and that YOU saw these photos when they were produced in court could you answer something for me please??

Exactly HOW were you able to SEE all this evidence given, you are not on either the prosecution or the defence team???

There was no jury in this case so I must assume you were in the public gallery....do you have xray vision or maybe binoculars??

I would like a proper answer please not just the standard I was there and I saw rubbish that you have been coming out with....

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
I for one would be very interested to hear your answer to this question.


[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the evidence BEFORE the judge.

Like I said, my contacts got me further than I gave them credit for. I also saw the evidence again after the trial.


[ QUOTE ]
And while you are at it please would you provide me with the information "from your notes" which you promised regarding the sick horses on the SF video.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant provide anything from my notes because I have not get them with me yet and wont have them with me for a while, but I will try to get this information another way.