What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

patty19 · 26 May 2009

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Oh for heavens' sake Patty, go to bed! You're worse than me! (You must have as much on your mind as me, albeit different spheres. I heard tonight in pub that a dear old friend died last Thursday - let's enjoy our horses, our country, our friends, as our laughs, while we can, hey?)

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LOL......dont concern yourself with what may be on my mind. Maybe you should take your own advice. I have insomnia.

I agree we should enjoy life while we have the chance. I am sorry about the loss of your friend.

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Let's all have a great gallop, next time we are on a lovely horse, in open country, and raise a glass of his favourite Weetwood Ales local brew to dear Norman. He was Cheshire Forest area, but didn't hunt, tho i returned his dog, using my pretty bitch as bait!!!

We've just lost Ian, now we lost Norman.

We must kick on, f*** to Jamie Gray!

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I no longer have a horse.

As for you comment about JG - I dont want to.

Brandysnap · 26 May 2009

I think we need the moderator to step in ASAP.

I have no intention of posting here again, as it feels so threatening, and just full of aggressive plonkers! who don't have a clue. Will write by old pigeon-post to editor's letters, using my full name, and hoping we return to sensible ways of communication.

I strongly suspect that 'Patty' is an MP. cos he/she bangs on and on and on and on, so i got fed up feeding (+paying for) printer, so i will be putting in my expenses claim, as i feel it's part of my job as a self-employed lady to claim for all, including printer costs. I have receipts for all £120 i've spent, let's hope Darling et al's lot account for all theirs...

There's going to be one huge revolution in our country, believe me. I hope there's no blood spilt, but there will be.

We need a total, utter change in how we have a say in who rules our countries. (Ie, Scotland, England, Wales + Ireland)

In meantime, i'm disappointed that H+H moderator hasn't intervened before now Well i ain't buying H+H next week, or week after, or after, or after .......

Happy Horse · 26 May 2009

Guys I know how tempting it is to keep winding Patty up but it is clear no proof of JG's 'innocence' is ever going to come to light from her. Why don't we let this lie, wait for the sentencing and be happy when justice is served.

Taboo1968 · 26 May 2009

Oh FGS GROW UP!!!! I remember the name being mentioned, it was her first name only and the fact that she had a private education.....
Mentioning her first name is hardly going to identify her is it??? But you forget the county she attends school in, was also mentioned...... SO WHAT, people are mentioning my first name all the time, they mention my sons first name as well, hardly a crime and definately not a lack of respect either!

Paddywhack · 26 May 2009

I had promised myself not to write anything more on this thread since we are away on holiday,but had to come in and have a peak and could not beleive that Patty is still ranting on,i read somewhere that she accused me of having verbal problems,but she is clearly the one that needs to take some immodium,i am sure that they got that across the atlantic. I am adament that she does not even live in this country,and just look when she is posting,she will probarly set her alarm now so that she will post an AM post just to prove me wrong.
She is winding everyone up,she knows chicken SH*T about J.G,the case or the trial..
I am now going back to enjoy my holiday,and its about time that this thread and Patty comes to an end.
He was found guilty = FACT
Sentencing is in a couple of weeks lets wait and see what happens then !
And also when anyone brings up some facts that is close to the thruth Patty insults that person straight away,also she is so bl00dy stupid quoting people that got her or him on ignore and she/him/it still thinks that I am a man

Over and out

Ellies_mum2 · 26 May 2009

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Peter green was speaking of his experience of a decomposing deer. It was said that although JG put fallen stock in places away from the live animals and covered them as best he could they were still exposed to the elements. The severe weather around that time was also mentioned as playing a part in the rapid decomposition. I dont have my notes with me which is very frusterating but this is what I remember off the top of my head. I do believe I have answered this question before but I cant find it.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm sure you will, but doesn't the weather slow down decomposition in Winter not speed it up.

I have always been led to believe that warm weather speeds up decomp due to insects etc and the heat causing the tissue to break down quicker. The cold preserves tissue

So therefore the dead horses could have lain there longer than a 'couple of weeks'

competitiondiva · 26 May 2009

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Actually you are wrong regarding the euthanasia, of course you cannot stop the seisure if they have warrants or with warranted officers but you can appeal, regarding euthanasia the rspca would only PTS an animal such as in this case under veterinary recommendation, this I can state as fact.

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Not actually true as the RSPCA do have the right to PTS without veterinary recommendation. See the Animal welfare Act. But it would be in extreme circumstances and I would like to assume that it would be justified. In some cases it hasnt been justified. We are all human after all and we all make mistakes. But I think most RSPCA inspectors would make a judgement based on what they believe is best for the animal.

But surely there lies within that right to make the decision to euthanise an element of accountability to the owner of the animal and the animal itself. An accountability which shows that the RSPCA was right to make that decision. The owner should have the automatic right to an independent thorough post mortem and should be encouraged to do so if the RSPCA want to appear transparent. A post mortem done on the back of a knackers lorry in a cruelty case is just not acceptable.

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I assume you are talking about this clause of the animal welfare act dozzie:

An inspector or a constable may act under subsection (3) without the certificate
of a veterinary surgeon if it appears to him
(a) that the condition of the animal is such that there is no reasonable
alternative to destroying it, and
(b) that the need for action is such that it is not reasonably practicable to
wait for a veterinary surgeon.

Please take note of the 'and' between (a) & (b) was there not a vet on site during the seisure???

Also from the defra website.
Inspectors are people appointed by local authorities or, in England, by the Secretary of State (in England) or the National Assembly for Wales (in Wales) with responsibility for animal welfare. In practice this can mean a local authority employee with responsibility for animal welfare, or an Animal Health (formerly State Veterinary Service) Officer.

RSPCA officer is not listed there.

And ontop of all this have you actually read Vet Robert Edgar Baskervilles evidence?? Please especially take note of the last sentence...

Robert Edgar Baskerville Veterinary surgeon senior partner Baskerville Hogan
Called by Katie Robinson at Mr. Grays request to assist . Arrived at Spindles Farm 6.30pm on 4th January 08. Describes the scene on arrival. Mr. Gray, Police Officers and RSPCA officials. Yard, barn .. at Spindles Farm ..3-4 inches deep in equine faeces and slurrypens 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 & 10 several inches deep in wet bedding, urine, faeces ..no dry areas for animals to lie down.a number of carcasses. .approx 8-10 in varying states of decay. Understood 90 horses in yard .. more in fields.three horses severely emaciated within hours of deathother .horses were dirty, underfed..impossible to carry out convention identificationKH1 KH3 euthanised because death imminent and would not respond to treatment KH2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,16,17,18,18a,19,and 20 considered at risk of death within hours unless removed to obtain urgent attention
Attended Spindles Farm on 5th Jan identified further animals requiring removal. KH15 so distressed and terminally ill, euthanized on his direction

So please apologise for the accusation that rspca officers shot this horse without a vets authorisation....

jacks_mum · 26 May 2009

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Yes it had lots of horses in and out of there. But they were not kept in there. The pony lying down near the trough went down that day 4th Jan. JG tried to get it up. That pony had been in a field. Before JG could move it again the RSPCA arrived. Those horses were put in that barn by the RSPCA. I know you wont believe this but it's the truth.

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sorry if someone else has already asked this - i am playing catch up after a weekend playing somewhere else but how do you KNOW it is the truth? By your own admission you didn't visit SF until the day following the raid, and that was your first visit according to what you have said on here. So as I see it, all you are passing on to us is heresay not proof, just another persons version of the truth which you have chosen to champion. Can you provide incontravertable PROOF that what you say and present to us as TRUTH is actually that?

patty19 · 26 May 2009

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Oh FGS GROW UP!!!! I remember the name being mentioned, it was her first name only and the fact that she had a private education.....

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And as the mother of the mentioned minor I chose not to mention her on a public forum, so no one else should have done so either. Unless of course you feel that is not a mothers right?

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Mentioning her first name is hardly going to identify her is it??? But you forget the county she attends school in, was also mentioned...... SO WHAT, people are mentioning my first name all the time, they mention my sons first name as well, hardly a crime and definately not a lack of respect either!

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Well if it's cool by you that your childs name is mentioned then thats just fine. If you remember the context in which Jhoward published this information you'll remember that she did so in a way to try and p!ss me off. BTW, she is the one who says I was very wrong to assume that as an adult who should be respectful of children she would understand my reason for asking her age. I said - Obviously I was wrong - meaning she lacked respect for children. She agreed to that.

AmyMay · 26 May 2009

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Robert Edgar Baskerville Veterinary surgeon senior partner Baskerville Hogan
Called by Katie Robinson at Mr. Grays request to assist . Arrived at Spindles Farm 6.30pm on 4th January 08. Describes the scene on arrival. Mr. Gray, Police Officers and RSPCA officials. Yard, barn .. at Spindles Farm ..3-4 inches deep in equine faeces and slurrypens 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 & 10 several inches deep in wet bedding, urine, faeces ..no dry areas for animals to lie down.a number of carcasses. .approx 8-10 in varying states of decay. Understood 90 horses in yard .. more in fields.three horses severely emaciated within hours of deathother .horses were dirty, underfed..impossible to carry out convention identificationKH1 KH3 euthanised because death imminent and would not respond to treatment KH2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,16,17,18,18a,19,and 20 considered at risk of death within hours unless removed to obtain urgent attention
Attended Spindles Farm on 5th Jan identified further animals requiring removal. KH15 so distressed and terminally ill, euthanized on his direction

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Nothing more to be said really - apart from roll on sentencing.

patty19 · 26 May 2009

More crap from PW. I have spoken to several people on this forum by phone - If they wish to make themselves known then they could verify that what PW is saying in regards to my location is nothing but rubbish. But tbh, I would not blame them if they did not make themselves know seeing that they will probably be pounced upon.

patty19 · 26 May 2009

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Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm sure you will, but doesn't the weather slow down decomposition in Winter not speed it up.

I have always been led to believe that warm weather speeds up decomp due to insects etc and the heat causing the tissue to break down quicker. The cold preserves tissue

So therefore the dead horses could have lain there longer than a 'couple of weeks'

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I'm no expert so all I can go by is what was said in the court room.

I would agree with you as I believe the hot weather speeds decomposition. But it wasnt the cold whether which was being refered to but rather the wet. Also, wild animals were mentioned too.

Thats all I can tell you and it's your right to take what you will from this. And I mean this in the nicest possible way.

dozzie · 26 May 2009

Inspectors are people appointed by local authorities or, in England, by the Secretary of State (in England) or the National Assembly for Wales (in Wales) with responsibility for animal welfare. In practice this can mean a local authority employee with responsibility for animal welfare, or an Animal Health (formerly State Veterinary Service) Officer.

RSPCA officer is not listed there.

Sorry. I had assumed it meant RSPCA inspector.

I never said the horse was shot without authorisation by a vet. NOT ONCE! EVER!

What I said was I believed my vet would have wanted further tests. However I had not registered it was the same horse as the one with the eye injury. I will also add that I dont think I am the only one to assume that the horse with the diarrheoa was a different horse to the one with the eye injury.

The pictures presented made me jump to a conclusion which was incorrect. Which is what I have been trying to say all along!

But we dont know if this horse was one being treated. I honestly cant make out from the picture of the eye injury what has actually happened. We dont know when it happened either. Not from the evidence. So we cant assume it has been left for weeks and we cant assume it has happened recently because we dont actually know.

We dont know the whole story.

In the same way we all assumed from what was written in the press that he was a meat man! He bought ponies for £1 and sold them to the meat trade. Yet there is no evidence of that.

But that created an image in our minds as to what sort of man he was right from the start and has continued to do that.

You and I both assumed he had to be selling to the meat trade abroad, but again there is no proof. There is clearly a market on the continent for traditional cobs, as there is a market over here.

So many comments have been made regarding the sort of trader he is and most of those comments have been based on media representation, village gossip and chinese whispers, and prejudice about travellers and meat dealers.

I dont know him at all so I wont make a judgement on the type of man he is. I did in the beginning but have come to realise that it was my own prejudices that led me to think what I thought. But other people, who also dont know him, are making comments which are so steeped in prejudice it beggars belief.

As for the drug smuggling...how would you feel if he was a member of your family and people were starting rumours like this? It is awful.

I do think it is time admin pulled this thread.

bexandspooky · 26 May 2009

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1 - What connection do you have with the greys?

2 - Why do you have such an interest in this case?

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OMG, you cannot be for real surely? I have answered these question in much detail and telling how I became so interested in the case. You either have not been reading what I have said or you just simply do not like or believe the answer I have given.
 Yep - I am afraid I am for real - I have read the threads right though and from what I can gather, you just happened upon Spindles Farm the day after the raid and came over all Nancy Drew, and thought that you would spend the next year and a half of your life investigating every detail, attending every court session and coming to the exact opposite conclusion to the rest of the country? I just dont get it!! I was asking those same questions again, in the hope that you could clarify why so that I might understand things from your point of view - at least I tried

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3 - For what purpose are you collating this information?

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Like I have said before, I did not set out to do this. I have explained this in detail to MH. I cant remember which thread but if you ask her she may remember.

 MH - Care to help me out? Thankies!!

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4 - Do you have evidence of the horses that were dug up?

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If you mean by way of photographs then no I dont but if they found in the way the RSPCA claim they were found, then Claire Ryder and Katie Robinson should both be sacked from their jobs for not doing anything about it prior to the RSPCA arriving at the farm on the 4th of Jan 08.

 Well maybe they should!! Although, to be fair on them, it depends on which fields contained the bodies, and which fields they visited - could be opposite ends of the farm, I am not familiar with the layout. My vet visited me the other day to a lame pony and never once looked at the stables - I could have had a stack of little bodies just rotting away and he wouldn't have been any the wiser - Luckily I am a good girl and no rotting corpses for me

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5 - Why did the horses in the above photo's remain decomposing for such a long period of time (note - due to the level of decomposition, I am assuming the length of time was more than say 'a couple of weeks' which would more than compensate for any christmas period delays)

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Peter green was speaking of his experience of a decomposing deer. It was said that although JG put fallen stock in places away from the live animals and covered them as best he could they were still exposed to the elements. The severe weather around that time was also mentioned as playing a part in the rapid decomposition. I dont have my notes with me which is very frusterating but this is what I remember off the top of my head. I do believe I have answered this question before but I cant find it.

 As someone mentioned previously, I would expect cold weather to delay the decomposition of a carcass, but then, I am no expert. I just base my assumption on the fact that we keep food cold to prolong it's use

Full of science, me!!

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Many thanks and look forward to your clarification!

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You're welcome.

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 Why, thank you.

It hasn't helped me change my opinion of what may have happened at SF, but I appreciate you trying. I do reiterate that if you feel a real injustice has been done, maybe sending a report of your findings to the media would be an interesting test - they do have alot of investigative power behind them

devonlass · 26 May 2009

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Oh please do get a life. Drugs????? Get real for goodness sake.

And you all have the nerve to accuse me of being unreal!?

PLEEEEEZ!!!!!!

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I have no idea if smuggling drugs was a motive in this instance,but your disbelieveing reply makes me wonder what kind of bubble you live in.
Do you have any perception of the influence and impact drugs have currently in our society??
Massive is the answer!!
You imply that the idea is far fetched that people would use animals to smuggle drugs into the country to make a quick buck,get real,people do it all the time.I have no idea if JG was doing this but it doesn't seem that it would be outside of his moral scope from what I have heard about him.Would actually make a lot of sense in regards to the state of the animals and how little he seemed bothered by it.

BTW in regards to your comment about shopping a drug dealer,my only advice would be be careful which one you shop or defending JG may be the least of your worries,mind you at least we would get a break from your irrational devotion for a while

I really still can't understand your mentality patty,you have to be saying that the RSPCA fabricated an entire case,at massive cost and effort just to get a conviction for JG,WHY??
It makes no sense whatsoever for them to do that,why would they bother??
I suppose it's also a coincidence that he had a previous conviction for animal cruelty?? I suppose that was all lies as well?? I do believe in coincidence,but there is a limit,or at least there is to any rational,logical thinking person.

I can confirm one thing for you anyway,jhoward is most definitely not a child (although she is quite short I'll admit

)
I have never found her disrespectful to children either as you mentioned,well not my children anyway,and she has seen them often enough.

patty19 · 26 May 2009

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sorry if someone else has already asked this - i am playing catch up after a weekend playing somewhere else but how do you KNOW it is the truth?

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Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

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By your own admission you didn't visit SF until the day following the raid, and that was your first visit according to what you have said on here. So as I see it, all you are passing on to us is heresay not proof, just another persons version of the truth which you have chosen to champion.

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No, I saw the beds for myself when I went to SF the day after the raid - That is not another persons version of truth.

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Can you provide incontravertable PROOF that what you say and present to us as TRUTH is actually that?

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Obviously not as the photos I presented have been questioned.

What incontravertable proof have the RSPCA provided to back up it's claims that the story it gave behind the images is actually the truth?

spaniel · 26 May 2009

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PATTY.....Given that you are so adament that you saw all these proceedings in court and that YOU saw these photos when they were produced in court could you answer something for me please??

Exactly HOW were you able to SEE all this evidence given, you are not on either the prosecution or the defence team???

There was no jury in this case so I must assume you were in the public gallery....do you have xray vision or maybe binoculars??

I would like a proper answer please not just the standard I was there and I saw rubbish that you have been coming out with....

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I saw the evidence BEFORE the judge.

Like I said, my contacts got me further than I gave them credit for. I also saw the evidence again after the trial.

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Simple questions.....HOW and UNDER WHOSE AURTHORITY please.

jacks_mum · 26 May 2009

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sorry if someone else has already asked this - i am playing catch up after a weekend playing somewhere else but how do you KNOW it is the truth?

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Because Claire Ryder gave evidence that she had never had any problems with the beds at SF. This leads me to believe that what Mr Gray said concerning that barn is the truth. Those photos were taken on the 4th of Jan, that barn was being cleared on the 9th but KH had a stop put to it. She denied this of course but her peers did not.

So as I speculated, you are going on hearsay as much as anyone else (most people (including yourself as you say you say you are neither a vet nor a legal person) not being directly involved in the case) here is 

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By your own admission you didn't visit SF until the day following the raid, and that was your first visit according to what you have said on here. So as I see it, all you are passing on to us is heresay not proof, just another persons version of the truth which you have chosen to champion.

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No, I saw the beds for myself when I went to SF the day after the raid - That is not another persons version of truth.

 your assertion (sp) that the beds where fine before the raid is another persons point of view that you are presenting to us as fact and truth. You only saw by your own admission, with your own eyes, the beds AFTER the RSPCA and other agencies had been in, so you are presenting us with hearsay and stating it is truth 

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Can you provide incontravertable PROOF that what you say and present to us as TRUTH is actually that?

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Obviously not as the photos I presented have been questioned.

What incontravertable proof have the RSPCA provided to back up it's claims that the story it gave behind the images is actually the truth?

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The images themselves are pretty damning, coupled with expert witness in the court rooms were enough proof to convince a judge that the evidence presented was truth. I appreciate that miscarriages of justice can and do happen but until solid proof that is not based on hearsay and is presented to me by someone credible (apologies if you consider that an insult but I don't know who you are so cannot consider you credible to me) then I will continue to believe that in this case justice has been done correctly.

patty19 · 26 May 2009

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Simple questions.....HOW and UNDER WHOSE AURTHORITY please.

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That is something I am not willing to disclose. It's not my place to name people.

devonlass · 26 May 2009

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Simple questions.....HOW and UNDER WHOSE AURTHORITY please.

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That is something I am not willing to disclose. It's not my place to name people.

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I would suggest not able,rather than not willing.Difficult to disclose information you don't actually have.Difficult also to name people who don't actually exist I guess.

Tell me patty,do you watch a lot of movies??

Happy Horse · 26 May 2009

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Simple questions.....HOW and UNDER WHOSE AURTHORITY please.

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That is something I am not willing to disclose. It's not my place to name people.

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Fairly vital though if you want any credibility at all.

Dahlia · 26 May 2009

I have just about read all of the threads re: JG and all I can really say is WOW!

Patty - You seem to be really trying hard to push this point about the disgusting barns the horses were pictured in wern't the actual ones that they usually resided in, these barns had lots of nice straw (very helpfully photgraphed by you - though this seriously could have been taken just about anywhere, in your own shed for all we know.... but I digress) To be honest, even if they had been photgraphed in luxurious stables, with lots of lovely bedding, the CONDITION of some of the horses pictured is still absolutely appalling and show prolonged neglect and animal abuse.

I seriously cannot see how you are so blind to cruelty pictured?

You said the fallen bay by the water trough, came in from the field and collapsed there where JG tried to move it? - WHY was the poor pony allowed to get into such an advanced emaciated state in the first place?
Just looking at the picture of that creature, it is a bagful of skin and bones - that deterioration does not happen over night - so stop banging on that the barns were switched for better snaps, even IF that is true, it is barely of any relevance!

An image speaks a thousand words.

Secondly, you kinda remind me of those crazy women who write letters to convicts on death row - I am sure they believe their beloved murder etc was totally innocent too! It is so bally bizarre that you are defending this piece of scum to the death, what is in it for you Patty?

People have all seen and read about Animal Horders, and I reckon JG is one of them.

sam1am · 26 May 2009

I just found this online, not sure if u have all seen it already but i though i'd share....i found it interesting anyway.

Press Release
For Immediate Release
7th April 2008

EQUINE LAWYERS HAIL AN HISTORIC VICTORY AGAINST RSPCA

ALL SPINDLES FARM RESCUE HORSES TO BE RETURNED OR SOLD

The action for the return of his horses brought by James (Jamie) Gray
against the RSPCA has taken a dramatic turn.

All twenty nine donkeys and Shetland ponies which the RSPCA seized must
be returned to the Grays, as the court ordered, forthwith.

The remaining ninety-six animals, including some valuable thoroughbreds,
will, as Mr Grays lawyers requested, be sold at auction.

Commenting on the courts findings, Anne Kasica of the SHG said:

Despite the case having been made a cause celebre by the RSPCAs Head
of Media, Henry Macaulay, the RSPCA faces yet another public relations
disaster following Judge Sandeep Kainths ruling on Friday in Oxford.

This is an enormously positive ruling. It shows that the RSPCAs whole
approach to welfare cases is wrong - it will not accept advice from
independent vets, for fear that they might say something it doesnt want
to hear.

The RSPCA prefers to take its aggressive courses of action, no matter
how unreasonable and wasteful they might be, just as long as they
increase the pressure on defendants.

Let us hope that this result will force the RSPCA to reconsider its
belligerent approach to cruelty cases.

Referring to the claim by Kirsty Hampton of the RSPCA that they had
intended to seek new owners for these horses before trial, Ms. Kasica
went on to say:

This is laughable. The RSPCA only seek new owners when they have a
court order for confiscation following a successful criminal prosecution
- so they can rehome expensive animals with acceptable people for a
substantial donation and then try to recover huge boarding costs from
the defendants.

As a result of the RSPCAs refusal to deliver up any of Mr. Grays
animals the RSPCA faces another huge costs bill from its own lawyers a
specialist firm instructed privately to present the RSPCAs case.

And yet the RSPCA accepted that all of the donkeys and ponies which
have been ordered back were in "good condition and claimed that they
were seized, not because of their condition, but because of concerns
about Mr Gray and his family.

As to the remainder, there was, the judge rightly ruled, no evidence
to show they were in any danger" and that a sale at auction was a
respectable, and traditional, way for horses to change ownership.

The idea of a sale in this case never arose until Mr Grays
application, and then the RSPCA resisted it. The RSPCAs idea was to
ensure that Mr Gray never got any money for his investment in the
horses, and that he should face a massive costs bill.

Kirsty Hampton is well-known to us. She has been involved in
considerable controversy and was responsible for making serious and
untrue allegations of cruelty against Mr and Mrs David Burden.

In their case, the RSPCA organised a meeting of witnesses, at which the
RSPCA ghosted a report which was later claimed to have been written by
an independent expert in sheep. Ms Hampton was present at that
meeting, and her case against the sheep farmers was thrown out.

Ernest Vine, also of the SHG, said:

There are countless defendants who are experiencing massive
high-profile seizures by the RSPCA, who are very aggressive and threaten
massive costs orders against them, whilst engaging in a huge media
campaign to increase the pressure still further.

For those still awaiting a private prosecution for cruelty by the
RSPCA, which usually takes six months to emerge, this must be very
heartening news.

Only this week David and Margaret Heading have had over a hundred
cattle seized from them by the RSPCA from East Farm in Thetford.

Their animals were transported to a place of safety by the RSPCA and
I understand that, as with Jamie Grays case, the RSPCA have not yet
suggested their sale.

Mr. Vine concluded:

The court in Mr. Greys case may have been persuaded to make the order
by the fact that the RSPCA claimed to have spent an incredible £153,000
boarding his animals so far.

Evidence given during the hearing by independent equine specialist vet
John Parker contrasted starkly with the RSPCAs highly prejudicial
press-releases.

Mr. Parker stated that none of the horses, donkeys and ponies had been
"caused unnecessary suffering, although some animals had arrived at Mr
Grays farm from a semi-feral origin. He found the bedding and general
condition of the farm to be of an "extremely good quality." And when
asked if he believed any animals would be at risk of cruelty if they
were returned, Mr Parker simply said "No".

The RSPCA is now under severe pressure to withdraw its private
prosecution against the Grays who face allegations of animal cruelty.
They are due before Oxford Magistrates on 28 April 2008.

The RSPCA is believed to be considering an appeal against Judge Kainths
ruling.

Ends

Word Total: 798

Notes to Editors: -

1. The result is another landmark victory for Jacqui Fulton, of Blythe
Liggins, who has represented Mr Gray and his family throughout

2. The RSPCA spends 44% of its annual income of over £100,000,000 (one
hundred million pounds) on its prosecutions department.

3. In the light of Judge Kainths findings, the RSPCA, which claims to
apply the Code for Crown Prosecutors, will have to satisfy Sally Case,
Head of Prosecutions, that it has considered whether each of the
allegations stands a reasonable prospect of success and is in the
public interest.

4. The RSPCA is a private body so there is no mechanism to challenge the
decision which Ms Case reaches.

5. Mr. Grays animals had been placed with organisations such as the
International League for the Protection of Horses (ILPH) and Redwings,
with whom the RSPCA has a special relationship and with whom it worked
on the raids which it conducted against Mr Gray.

6. Many of Mr Grays animals were seized on advice from independent
expert Nic de Brauwere, who is Head of Welfare at Redwings. Mr de
Brauwere claims to have been on hundreds of unannounced visits with
the RSPCA. He was severely criticised by District Judge Philip Browning,
when the RSPCAs private prosecution against Gina and Martin Griffin was
thrown out in Norwich.

7. Launching the RSPCAs usual attack on judges who have found against
them, Kirsty Hampton, who was responsible for the raids, said:

The decision to return the horses to the Grays is devastating. We had
hoped that the court would ask us to seek new owners for them who were
guaranteed to provide for their future welfare. An open sale to an
unknown bidder means that we cannot be sure of the level of future care
they will receive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An email received January 15 2008 maintains that the RSPCA is far from what the public tend to perceive.
"The RSPCA is corrupt. Those horrible people have told so many lies it's unreal.
My uncle is Jamie Gray, the man accused of animal cruelty recently in the press. I'm sure you must have heard about the case.

Here's just a little info to show how corrupt the RSPCA, and certain other Animal Welfare Organisations, are.

My uncle has all his vets' reports for his animals - receipts for the stacks of haylage he has delivered on a regular basis.

My uncle makes every effort to ensure that the wellbeing of his animals is second to none. An independent vet gave very good reports after vetting the animals, but the RSPCA officer in charge of the case wasn't happy with that so she had an RSPCA vet also check them. Apparently, this is "the worse case of animal cruelty he has seen in his 30 years as a vet". If this was the case then he must have been walking around with his eyes closed for the past 30 years.

I'm no expert but even I could see those animals were not neglected.

The RSPCA and other welfare organizations involved in this case have all seen the food on site - alone with fresh water and clean dry bedding. But they chose to leave this out of their speeches to the press.

The family has been hounded by the press - the very press who have published cruel, wicked lies about them. Their children can no longer go to school, and my aunt can't go to her local shops. Their entire village think they are guilty - and some of the villagers have too made up lies. Their phone is constantly ringing with either the press hounding them to say something or people calling and spouting abuse.

I understand the anger the public are expressing concerning the farm in Amersham, Buckenhamshire. However, the public have not been told the truth. The RSPCA and other AWO's, are lying through thier teeth, as are the villagers, who my uncle will most certainly want to see in court. He loves his animals and there is no way he would do what he is being accused of. One of the horses that was taken away was one my uncle actually rescued himself just a week before the RSPCA came in to his farm. But the RSPCA have not mentioned this although they have been made very aware of it.

All of his animals were checked by the vet just days before the RSPCA moved in.
They told the press that 30+ dead animals were found piled up against a fence. That is mammoth lie on its own.

I seriously do not know how these people sleep at night.
There are just too many lies reported in the press for me to mention.

These people should never be allowed to do this to innocent people. They are meant to be concerned about the welfare of animals not targeting good people who are animal lovers.

In the past I have made donations to the RSPCA, but NEVER AGAIN. Not after witnessing the kind of organization it actually is.

The public are donating millions of pounds to the RSPCA, yet don't actually know the facts about it. The RSPCA needs to be exposed for the corrupt organization that it is.

Instead of spending the donations of the good hearted public, in targeting innocent animals lovers, they should be using those resources to help the thousands of poor animals who truly do need their help. I'm sure there are some good officers on the ground who are trying to do a good job but sadly, none were in charge when the RSPCA entered my uncle's farm. It would seem that those officers trying to do a good job are a minority within the organization.

Thank you.

Charmaine.

tania01 · 26 May 2009

Jack mum i have asked the same questions about 5 times now,patty still goes round the houses answering it,

She has NO proof and now seems not to be able to get hold of ANY proof about anything.(funny that)

She has only heard from others about the grays life before.

AmyMay · 26 May 2009

Thankfully, Sam, Judge Sandeep Kainths order was suspended.

dozzie · 26 May 2009

I assume you are talking about this clause of the animal welfare act dozzie:

[ QUOTE ]
An inspector or a constable may act under subsection (3) without the certificate
of a veterinary surgeon if it appears to him
(a) that the condition of the animal is such that there is no reasonable
alternative to destroying it, and
(b) that the need for action is such that it is not reasonably practicable to
wait for a veterinary surgeon.

Please take note of the 'and' between (a) & (b) was there not a vet on site during the seisure???

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never said there wasnt.

[ QUOTE ]
Also from the defra website.
Inspectors are people appointed by local authorities or, in England, by the Secretary of State (in England) or the National Assembly for Wales (in Wales) with responsibility for animal welfare. In practice this can mean a local authority employee with responsibility for animal welfare, or an Animal Health (formerly State Veterinary Service) Officer.

RSPCA officer is not listed there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if the RSPCA is not listed, why have they any right to do any of what it says in the AWA?

I am genuinely puzzled. On one hand you are saying they dont have the right to euthanise without a vet because they are not appointed inspectors. Yet on the other hand they have the right to seize under the animal welfare act, according to the RSPCA. So they must be appointed inspectors surely?

Very confusing.

spaniel · 26 May 2009

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Simple questions.....HOW and UNDER WHOSE AURTHORITY please.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is something I am not willing to disclose. It's not my place to name people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fairly vital though if you want any credibility at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

PMSL Credibility???? Its not happening is it.

I can see someone sailing very, very close to legal proceedings here.

AmyMay · 26 May 2009

[ QUOTE ]
I can see someone sailing very, very close to legal proceedings here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I must admit that was my initial reaction reading Patty's response to you Spaniel.

jacks_mum · 26 May 2009

surely seeing the evidence BEFORE the judge gets to see it unless you are a part of the legal teams is stepping on VERY dodgy ground?

teddyt · 26 May 2009

[ QUOTE ]

My uncle makes every effort to ensure that the wellbeing of his animals is second to none. [ more likely that the welfare is next to nothing]

 I'm no expert but even I could see those animals were not neglected.

 You dont have to be sherlock holmes to see the horses werent exactly in top notch condition

 The RSPCA and other welfare organizations involved in this case have all seen the food on site - alone with fresh water and clean dry bedding. But they chose to leave this out of their speeches to the press. Shame the horses never saw enough of the food and clean bedding

 Their entire village think they are guilty
 Thats because they were found guiltyin a court of law

 He loves his animals and there is no way he would do what he is being accused of. I love my animals. When one dies i dont leave it to rot. I dont leave them tied to trailers to die either. Funny ways of expressing love

 I seriously do not know how these people sleep at night.
 I seriously dont know how the Grays sleep at night with those horses suffering outside their house

 They are meant to be concerned about the welfare of animals not targeting good people who are animal lovers. If those horses were loved i would hate to see what JG does to things he hates

[/ QUOTE ]

What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

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