What was Jamie Grays' line of business?

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
huh.. no. so there! *sticks tounge out*

[/ QUOTE ]

Jhoward, it is against my better jugement to debate/argue with children. May I ask your age? - because this is not the first time that I have thought you were younger than you sound but I have given you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bexandspooky]

Oh come off it Patty, how many times would you like to avoid answering the same simple questions?

If you would like to recap on all of my previous posts, I asked nicely, and made every attempt to look at what you are trying to put across objectively.

You surely cannnot blame me for getting a little frustated, as you still have not actually managed to clarify one of the points that I have asked for clarification on directly.

You have stated that you have previously answered them, yet cannot find where these answers are in your posts, so how you expect me to is beyond me!

I have not replied to anything that Dozzie has said, as all I want to do is establish is these simple yet apparently unanswerable points.

As I have previously said - your silence makes you difficult to take seriously.

 

[jhoward]

sorry, couldnt resist. things get a bit tedious at times and being an adult very dull.

my age is absoluty feck all to do with you.

i am eternally grateful for your benefit of the doubt, but please dont worry yourself as i really dont need your approval.

 

[jhoward]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no you plank, it had 2 attachements! i can see that your trying to accuse me of something here, well really dont bother.

as i offered to send the email to anyone that could down load and post the attachements with many more pictures of the horses. theres clearly nothing amiss. so do me a favour and dont go down that route. i CAN PROVE what im saying you bloody well cant can you? huh.. no. so there! *sticks tounge out*

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I give you my email address will you send it to me?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Now patty, i started off with respect for you. Unfortunately i quickly lost it due to the fact you dont answer questions with a straight reply, either by ignoring them or replying with another question. If you answered a question appropriately it wouldnt get asked again, would it?
Many of your 'facts' also dont add up. If you are to gain respect you need to earn it. Horse welfare means alot to me, hence i have been drawn into this to try and gain an understanding of the horror of SF. As yet you have been unable to convince me that JG is innocent. Indeed i am more and more disgusted the more i learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh please!!! I'm not sure about you but from day 1 everyone saw JG as a monster.

Where are your questions and I will happy to go fine them and answer them but if you dont like the answers then it's fine to just say so instead of going off the deep end.

And as for respect having to be earned - I was very respectful and understanding to the outrage when I first came here but people just wanted to believe all the [****] so they were disrespectful to me from day one. Maybe you should tell others that in order for them to be respected they must earn it.

My personal opinion is that we should be respectful to all people unless they give us a reason not to be. And I was respectful to everyone on this forum even after they shouted me down and abused me - this was because I understood their outrage.

But now however, after telling the forum all this last year, they still felt it was fine to be disrespectful.

There are two people on this forum who I dont have an ounce of respect for. Jhoward and Paddywhack. That said, if Jhoward is a child I will forgive her ignorance and just wont bother speaking to her anymore. Infact I'll put her on ignore - something I have never done to anyone.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no you plank, it had 2 attachements! i can see that your trying to accuse me of something here, well really dont bother.

as i offered to send the email to anyone that could down load and post the attachements with many more pictures of the horses. theres clearly nothing amiss. so do me a favour and dont go down that route. i CAN PROVE what im saying you bloody well cant can you? huh.. no. so there! *sticks tounge out*

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I give you my email address will you send it to me?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

 

[jhoward]

no point in me replying to patty as shes put me on ignore *crys*

 

[competitiondiva]

I've now come to the conclusion that Patty may have answered the questions previously but cannot remember her answers and cannot find them on here. She won't answer the questions again incase someone has saved the original answers and doesn't want the two compared!

As far as evidence is concerned. If there were evidence proving JG's innocense it would have been given in court if not why?? If it was shown in court it obviously wasn't credible evidence or the evidence of the prosecution was more reliable. Either way in a court of law he was found guilty. If there is other evidence then I think JG might be taking it up with Patty himself as I'm sure he would want to know why evidence to prove his innocense was witheld!!

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, couldnt resist. things get a bit tedious at times and being an adult very dull.

my age is absoluty feck all to do with you.

i am eternally grateful for your benefit of the doubt, but please dont worry yourself as i really dont need your approval.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jhoward, I know your age has F*CK all to do with me but I simply wanted to know if you were a child as I'd prefer not to debate/argue with a kid. As an adult who should be respectful of children, I would have thought you would have understood why I asked. Obviously I was wrong.

 

[jhoward]

yes you are very wrong.

 

[teddyt]

I like to know the facts before i make a judgement. I do not see life through rose tinted glasses and i know the difference between pet horses and those that are farmed. But as i have said many times, i am yet to be convinced of genuine reasons why those horses were in that state.

That is because there is no genuine reason why over 20 out of 115 horses were found dead in various states of decomposition. Your explanation of cyathostome infestation just doesnt work, especially as you maintain the horses were wormed and seen to by vets. No, encysted cyathostomes dont show up on worm counts but if you use an appropriate wormer they can be treated.

There is no justification for dragging and kicking a horse unable to stand and leaving it to die tied to a trailer.

A large number of horses were emaciated/very thin. One pony doubled its weight in a couple of weeks at a sanctuary. If JG was really building these poor horses up why couldnt he do this?

I could go on and on about the reasons why JG is guilty of cruety to these horses. I have developed this point of view from reading your posts and others. I havnt jumped to conclusions, nor assumed the worst. Just looked at the evidence (or lack of it from you, in JGs defence) and summised that there is no justification for the state the horses were in.

 

[dozzie]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you are wrong regarding the euthanasia, of course you cannot stop the seisure if they have warrants or with warranted officers but you can appeal, regarding euthanasia the rspca would only PTS an animal such as in this case under veterinary recommendation, this I can state as fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not actually true as the RSPCA do have the right to PTS without veterinary recommendation. See the Animal welfare Act. But it would be in extreme circumstances and I would like to assume that it would be justified. In some cases it hasnt been justified. We are all human after all and we all make mistakes. But I think most RSPCA inspectors would make a judgement based on what they believe is best for the animal.

But surely there lies within that right to make the decision to euthanise an element of accountability to the owner of the animal and the animal itself. An accountability which shows that the RSPCA was right to make that decision. The owner should have the automatic right to an independent thorough post mortem and should be encouraged to do so if the RSPCA want to appear transparent. A post mortem done on the back of a knackers lorry in a cruelty case is just not acceptable.

 

[Taboo1968]

QR - Pardon the pun but..... talk about flogging a dead horse!!!! Is there any REAL proof that he is innocent? NO, thats why he was found GUILTY...... and the conversation is just going round in circles and is turning exactly the same way as it did last year, with people constantly having a go at each other...... Maybe this time could be better spent with the horses or doing housework!!!

 

[dozzie]

I am not doing the horses at this time of night

And I am certainly not doing housework!

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not doing the horses at this time of night

And I am certainly not doing housework!

[/ QUOTE ]

I am - just off to do late night stables - always do about 11.30 pm! AND just ironed half a dozen shirts for the OH!

 

[dozzie]

FGS woman! Make your OH iron his own shirts! He has arms doesnt he?

ETA Apologies to your OH if he doesnt have any arms. How assuming was that comment. Sorry.

 

[Brandysnap]

Hi Quickfire,

I believe you.

Would you be happy to make this more public? I'm thinking Jeremy Vine here.

It's been a huge welfare issue, with lots of questions, in our own H+H forum. Maybe RSPCA + BHS may like to get involved?

If they don't, then we really need to think about how many of them are listening, how much of charity money is actually given to causes which us donors think are important, rather than to admin costs/salaries? (Closely allied with how much of our taxes are spent on MPs' luxuries?)

Doubt if anyone's listening, but i'm voting Independent Party next time! BS x

PS: Is Patty really Jamie Gray?

PPS: Let's watch this post disappear, as did Quickfire's.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
More than ever I'm now convinced that Patty is connected with an anti RSPCA group such as SHG and she's using JG's plight in an attempt to discredit them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not connected to the SHG but I think they are fantastic for their efforts. They publish some pretty interesting stuff and advice. But it would seem people here would rather turn a blind eye to anyone or anything that has anything negative to say about the RSPCA. But I would advise anyone who ownes animals to have a look at their advice about your rights were the RSPCA is concerned.


[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if the family are getting a bit twitchy about Patty's campaign which has lead to suggestions of dark dealings.
Are they now living in fear of a dawn raid by the drugs squad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are aware that if any of that family did happen to look at this forum and saw these ridiculous accusations, that they could do something about it.

I get whats going on here. Because you all believe what you have been told, and believe the fictitious story behind the images, you cant see how he made a living so you'll just make something up that you think could be the truth.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
no point in me replying to patty as shes put me on ignore *crys*

[/ QUOTE ]

IF it turned out that you were a child.

But you have told me you are not a child and I can see no reason why you would lie about you age. Therefore, I'm not putting you on ignore.

Why will you not send me that email if I give you my email address?

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Jhoward, I know your age has F*CK all to do with me but I simply wanted to know if you were a child as I'd prefer not to debate/argue with a kid. As an adult who should be respectful of children, I would have thought you would have understood why I asked. Obviously I was wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
yes you are very wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought as much after you announced my daughters name and means of education on this public forum last year after I had a phone conversation with you in which was interupted by my daugher who's name and education I mistakenly mentioned. Yet again I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you only did that because you were angry with me, even though that is no excuse for you publishing my childs name and means of education on a public forum. However, I no longer will give you the benefit of the doubt after this admission concerning your lack of respect for children.. - Which tbh, I think is a disgrace.

 

[Brandysnap]

Please let's get back to real things.

And away from Pony Club Mother tantrums.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Quickfire,

I believe you.

Would you be happy to make this more public? I'm thinking Jeremy Vine here.

It's been a huge welfare issue, with lots of questions, in our own H+H forum. Maybe RSPCA + BHS may like to get involved?

If they don't, then we really need to think about how many of them are listening, how much of charity money is actually given to causes which us doners think are important, rather than to admin costs/salaries? (Closely allied with how much of our taxes are spent on MPs' luxuries?)

Doubt if anyone's listening, but i'm voting Independent Party next time! BS x

PS: Is Patty really Jamie Gray?

PPS: Let's watch this post disappear, as did Quickfire's.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question has risen before but to answer you - no I am not JG.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]

1 - What connection do you have with the greys?


2 - Why do you have such an interest in this case?

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, you cannot be for real surely? I have answered these question in much detail and telling how I became so interested in the case. You either have not been reading what I have said or you just simply do not like or believe the answer I have given.


[ QUOTE ]
3 - For what purpose are you collating this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I have said before, I did not set out to do this. I have explained this in detail to MH. I cant remember which thread but if you ask her she may remember.

[ QUOTE ]
4 - Do you have evidence of the horses that were dug up?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean by way of photographs then no I dont but if they found in the way the RSPCA claim they were found, then Claire Ryder and Katie Robinson should both be sacked from their jobs for not doing anything about it prior to the RSPCA arriving at the farm on the 4th of Jan 08.

[ QUOTE ]
5 - Why did the horses in the above photo's remain decomposing for such a long period of time (note - due to the level of decomposition, I am assuming the length of time was more than say 'a couple of weeks' which would more than compensate for any christmas period delays)

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter green was speaking of his experience of a decomposing deer. It was said that although JG put fallen stock in places away from the live animals and covered them as best he could they were still exposed to the elements. The severe weather around that time was also mentioned as playing a part in the rapid decomposition. I dont have my notes with me which is very frusterating but this is what I remember off the top of my head. I do believe I have answered this question before but I cant find it.


[ QUOTE ]
Many thanks and look forward to your clarification!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're welcome.

 

[Brandysnap]

So why do you feel so strongly that you have to defend what most of us perceive as a total [****]? I teach in uni, in non-horsey sphere, just curious, your comments re horsey world will help my teaching (maybe). Working towards positivie things always, + thanks for giving me a new (albeit old) perspective one. And may you think a little wider in future...

We either tolerate the current situation, or we make our views clear.

Putting it another way, we either accept what we have now, or we fight for something better. I'm personally of the mind that we should neither tolerate the likes of Jamie Gray

in our society, any more than we should tolerate MPs who've taken the piss out of us, by using our money, thinking we'd never know...

• 
  
  Well, that's just me. I'm just a simple country girl from Liverpool,
  
  who's going to vote Independent Party. And if there isn't a candidate locally, i want to know why, and i'll request a different voting system.
  
  BS x

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think Patty sounds like that discredited expert witness Madeleine Forsyth acting for JG with an axe to grind! Who else would be so desperate!

[/ QUOTE ]

And who was she discredited by? - A judge who has no veterinary experience. Same goes for John Parker, not a shred of his evidence was relied upon either. Funny that!!!

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
I've now come to the conclusion that Patty may have answered the questions previously but cannot remember her answers and cannot find them on here. She won't answer the questions again incase someone has saved the original answers and doesn't want the two compared!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh please. I have no reason what so ever to lie. There is enough people on here to remember what I have said - surely not all of them would forget what I have said.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as evidence is concerned. If there were evidence proving JG's innocense it would have been given in court if not why??

[/ QUOTE ]

It most certainly was give in court.


[ QUOTE ]
If it was shown in court it obviously wasn't credible evidence or the evidence of the prosecution was more reliable. Either way in a court of law he was found guilty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really wish people from this forum were in that court.

[ QUOTE ]
If there is other evidence then I think JG might be taking it up with Patty himself as I'm sure he would want to know why evidence to prove his innocense was witheld!!

[/ QUOTE ]

And why exactly would JG take anything up with me?Please do behave yourself.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
So why do you feel so strongly that you have to defend what most of us perceive as a total [****]?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont care what most of you percieve. If I know different then I will go against the grain for what I know is right. I am not a follower unless I have good reason to be. And in this case I have good reason not to be.

I dont feel so strongly that I have to defend. I am defending because I know what is right. I would do the same for anyone in any circumstace. I know the person that I am often offends people but I will always defend what is right. Most people will go with the flow for an easy life and/or popularity but I'm not like most people.


[ QUOTE ]
I teach in uni, in non-horsey sphere, just curious, your comments re horsey world will help my teaching (maybe). Working towards positivie things always, + thanks for giving me a new (albeit old) perspective one. And may you think a little wider in future. BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh believe me.......I have thought as wide as wide could possibly get.

You may want to teach your students to stand for what they know is right no matter what the rest of the world may think or say.

Just noticed there is more to your post - answering it now.

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]


We either tolerate the current situation, or we make our views clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe I have done just that.

[ QUOTE ]
Putting it another way, we either accept what we have now, or we fight for something better. I'm personally of the mind that we should neither tolerate the likes of Jamie Gray

in our society, any more than we should tolerate MPs who've taken the piss out of us, by using our money, thinking we'd never know...

• 
  
  [/ QUOTE ]
  
  People who do actually commit the crimes JG has been accused of should never be tolerated in any way shape or form.
  
  [ QUOTE ]
  Well, that's just me. I'm just a simple country girl from Liverpool,
  
  who's going to vote Independent Party. And if there isn't a candidate locally, i want to know why, and i'll request a different voting system.
  
  BS x
  
  [/ QUOTE ]
  
  [/ QUOTE ]
  
  Good on you!!

 

[patty19]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh most definately it was Patty who started the post of the man who killed the dog in order to drum up more anti rspca support! There will always be those who disagree with the rspca but the fact is that they do act within the law despite what patty may say because if they didn't they would be the first to be strung up for any mistake, and any decent defense solicitor would be able to get the case thrown out of court for such acts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest you take a look at the SHG then tell me you wouldnt have issues with the rspca.

Just because it has not personally happened to me does not mean I should find such actions towards decent hard working people and their animals acceptable. Infact it infuriates me.

 

[Brandysnap]

Post deleted by Brandysnap