What would you pay for this horse?

Leo Walker said:
How?? You wont use vets but by the sound of it you are happy to access POMs and dish them out yourself. The mind boggles!

This horse is worthless. I paid just over meat money for mine when he wasnt sound but I was 99% certain I could get him right. I did. To me hes priceless. On the open market you can add a zero to what I paid. But it cost me a lot in time and money to get him there and I was aware the whole time it could go horribly wrong.

Unless this horse is to be a companion or you want to drop 1k+ on it as well as about a thousand hours of good quality schooling, then run not just walk away. Mine was reserve champion out showing when he was still lame to my eye, thats how subtle it was! I also knew without a shadow of a doubt that it wasnt foot related.

If you do the odd pootle round the block then you arent going to be able to rehab something barefoot.

I dont understand why you are even looking at this horse? If you want it, take it on and hope it stays field sound, but dont fool yourself that you will take on a lame horse and turn it into some sort of competition superstar by not diagnosing or treating the lameness.
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Interested in why you bought a lame horse who is now sound but the OP can’t ?
 
If by conventional treatment you mean pain relief, x rays, minor or major surgery, vaccinations, dentals, nerve blocks....and I could go on forever....then how do you manage if a horse has an issue? It's one thing not to use a conventional farrier but a completely different kettle of fish to avoid "conventional" veterinary treatment.
 
Because I assessed his lameness and had a team of professionals on hand to treat.work him. I also do more with mine than hack around the block which is essential for barefoot rehab, and also vital in the case of my boy.
 
Leo Walker said:
Because I assessed his lameness and had a team of professionals on hand to treat.work him. I also do more with mine than hack around the block which is essential for barefoot rehab, and also vital in the case of my boy.
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Maybe the OP has more experience than you ?
 
I also need to point out that I am an idiot! It could so easily have gone very wrong. At some point it will bite me on the bum! What I do is high risk gambling and I do it on the basis that I am getting horses out of a bad situation so if I cant fix them then I will PTS without a second thought.
 
Leo Walker said:
Anyone who thinks a lame horse can be fixed without vetinary input via a barefoot rehab but only hacks round the block is naive in the extreme!
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I disagree, a vet could be needed but with a young, small horse who is already ridden away, the problem is unlikely do be anything that serious. Most lame horses come sound by simply giving them time and a good farrier is far more useful than most vets.
 
Nudibranch said:
If by conventional treatment you mean pain relief, x rays, minor or major surgery, vaccinations, dentals, nerve blocks....and I could go on forever....then how do you manage if a horse has an issue? It's one thing not to use a conventional farrier but a completely different kettle of fish to avoid "conventional" veterinary treatment.
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I don't vaccinate. I do however use the vet for certain things but not for lameness.
 
It's a gamble. I agree that the horse is not worth much in the current state and potential doesn't mean much if the horse will only be required to potter round the block twice a week.

Is the lameness fore or hind limb?

Why has the owner not investigated? Are they denying the lameness or not prepared to spend the money on investigations and treatment?

My guess is you have an idea of what is causing the lameness and based on your suggestion of a barefoot rehab you are expecting soft tissue issues in a fore limb. If this is correct, you like the horse and you're confident you can complete the rehab it may be worth a token payment. However you need to be prepared for the horse not to come sound and accept you may need to PTS or retire if the lameness persists.

Go in to this with your eyes open, hope for the best but plan for the worst.
 
Reading between the lines despite lack of official diagnosis / any workup it sounds like you've got a theory at least on why the horse may be lame. You also sound reasonably confident that you can get the horse right enough for what you'd like to do with it (otherwise guessing you wouldn't be considering taking on). May be worth taking a punt for a few hundred £ but as there's the chance you may be wrong on cause of lameness and it may turn out not to be fully fixable (or to be fixable with significant financial outlay) then spending more than this is likely to bite you in the bum
 
Diddleydoo said:
It's a gamble. I agree that the horse is not worth much in the current state and potential doesn't mean much if the horse will only be required to potter round the block twice a week.

Is the lameness fore or hind limb?

Why has the owner not investigated? Are they denying the lameness or not prepared to spend the money on investigations and treatment?

My guess is you have an idea of what is causing the lameness and based on your suggestion of a barefoot rehab you are expecting soft tissue issues in a fore limb. If this is correct, you like the horse and you're confident you can complete the rehab it may be worth a token payment. However you need to be prepared for the horse not to come sound and accept you may need to PTS or retire if the lameness persists.

Go in to this with your eyes open, hope for the best but plan for the worst.
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It's forelimb. No idea what it is. Owner is being very open about it being lame but if they know why it's lame, they're not letting on. Would be prepared to pts if necessary. Wouldn't pass on.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
I don't vaccinate. I do however use the vet for certain things but not for lameness.
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So my horse.
Intermittent lame last year, farrier noticed he was more difficult to trim th. Gavr him six weeks rest then sent him in for a work up.

What would you have done?
How would you have fixed the lamness?
 
Slightlyconfused said:
So my horse.
Intermittent lame last year, farrier noticed he was more difficult to trim th. Gavr him six weeks rest then sent him in for a work up.

What would you have done?
How would you have fixed the lamness?
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I have a totally different regime in the first place. I don't shoe and so I see any changes in the feet very quickly. Horses are on a track system and I watch how they move over various surfaces. We have pea gravel and they move over it confidently, for example but it means I can immediately if one is more cautious on it. I carefully manage diet and exercise and horses pretty much self trim.

Any work up at the vets results in same thing - Bute, box rest and remedial shoeing, which is the opposite of what she needed typically.
 
Leo Walker said:
Anyone who thinks a lame horse can be fixed without vetinary input via a barefoot rehab but only hacks round the block is naive in the extreme!
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I've done three, essentially that way. Walk in hand on roads. Walk ridden on roads. Trot when sound to trot. When sound at trot they are sound at canter but if you never do it it doesn't matter. Provided they walk enough to trim their own feet, that's all a barefoot rehab actually is.

I don't have a track or pea gravel, the OP does. That makes things even easier.
 
It might make it easier if the lameness is in the foot but that just a guess with any proper diagnostics who knows what’s wrong with the horse .
Stuff likes this makes me very cross .
Poor horses their lives are a lottery .
 
I'm guessing the lameness is subtle or the owner would be more reasonable. I wouldn't pay any money for it. If all you want to do is hack around the block, I'd go on Dragon Driving or Preloved and find a sound one.
 
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Goldenstar said:
It might make it easier if the lameness is in the foot but that just a guess with any proper diagnostics who knows what’s wrong with the horse .
Stuff likes this makes me very cross .
Poor horses their lives are a lottery .
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Diagnostics, especially if it does turn out to be soft tissue in the foot which can't be diagnosed without MRI, cost a fortune that not everyone has to hand. The most common causes of lasting lameness are in the foot. If the horse is only mildly lame, the owner is experienced and has the facilities, it makes sense to try a track rehab and shoe removal before paying any vet bills, I think.
 
Goldenstar said:
It might make it easier if the lameness is in the foot but that just a guess with any proper diagnostics who knows what’s wrong with the horse .
Stuff likes this makes me very cross .
Poor horses their lives are a lottery .
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If you know what you're looking at, you can pretty much tell whether it's in the foot and/or something else.

I agree with the poor horses and lottery comment. They're in the lap of the gods, like all animals sadly. They could go to someone who drives them mentally insane by box resting them for weeks/months on end, with their feet withering up and cripples them with remedial shoeing, only to be sold on at auction when they don't come right OR they could come to me, live out in a herd in a natural lifestyle, with their feet feeling better and more comfortable for the first time in their lives and then, if all things fail, they'll be quietly pts at home with no stress and trauma. I know which one is prefer.
 
ycbm said:
Diagnostics, especially if it does turn out to be soft tissue in the foot which can't be diagnosed without MRI, cost a fortune that not everyone has to hand. The most common causes of lasting lameness are in the foot. If the horse is only mildly lame, the owner is experienced and has the facilities, it makes sense to try a track rehab and shoe removal before paying any vet bills, I think.
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Exactly. I also have the money to pay for MRI but it doesn't change my approach, so I choose not to.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Exactly. I also have the money to pay for MRI but it doesn't change my approach, so I choose not to.
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I am the same. I sometimes long for a return to the days when vets called to a mildly lame horse with no obvious cause would say 'turn it away for three months and see what you've got then'.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Exactly. I also have the money to pay for MRI but it doesn't change my approach, so I choose not to.
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But that’s “not using a Vet” that’s making a decision of cost v. Benefit. If a test will not change the outcome or treatment then there’s no point in doing it! I wouldn’t mri either, X-ray and ultrasound are enough imo.

Do you at least vaccinate for tetanus? Who does their teeth? (We don’t use Vet we use a properly qualified dentist)

We had a horse with intermittent lameness. Sound in walk. Minimal lameness in trot; probably 2-3/10s at most. No heat/swelling/cuts/pain on pressing up and down leg. No history of falls etc.
we gave 2 weeks off in case was an abcess brewing that was yet to be sore on hoof testing. Kept in large yard were could still walk around.
No change and nothing showed up. Was definitely in the leg and not higher up.
Got Vet out, he X-rayed as nothing to see external - horse had cracked the Pastern about 5mm length.
Was never sore, swollen or heat from area. Not even a cut elsewhere on the leg. Most likely a field injury we think. He was kept in a large shed for 8 weeks with gradual increase in walking area and access to outside yard from shed. Then was turned out onto a flat field starting with 2 acres for a couple of weeks then had full 5. Completely recovered and sound. Took time and patience - mri wouldn’t have changed the management but without the X-ray for a mild intermittent lameness we wouldn’t have known about the crack and could have caused more harm.

We couldn’t have found that ourselves - Not using a vet would have been irresponsible and would have caused harm to horse.
 
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Not wanting to pay for an mri is a complete red herring I have never had an mri done for lameness .
Much can done by a good experianced vet with a combination of assessments of different surfaces flexions and nerve blocking it’s nonsense to say I don’t want to pay for an mri so I am doing nothing .
 
Not vaccinating for tetanus is like playing Russian roulette with your horse .
I have seen a horse die from tetanus and it’s a terrible thing .
 
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