What's going on with necks?

[ycbm]

What's going on? Horse after horse after horse getting bad x rays on their necks. I've lost one this year, a neighbour had loss of use on one this year, several forum members have retired or PTS this year alone.

Has something changed? Did we just never x ray necks before and only recently realise it's an issue? Or are there really more neck problems, and if so why?
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[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I think it probably a combination of things, more recognition that an issue starts in the neck, more advise to go for diagnostic testing, including x-rays and more horses living in small paddocks, having to do sharp turns if they want to play with their companions and I'm afraid I always suspect working on artificial surfaces when things that we 'never heard of in the old days' suddenly become common.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Forced into an outline too early ? Age classes never seem right to me, 4 year olds doing the work in a frame of a 6 year old.

 

[Roxylola]

I think its multifaceted personally. I think forums like this are not a good sample - generally here we have educated owners who are more likely to notice issues and investigate than the average owner - I'd potentially include your neighbour in that group as someone who insures against loss of use they obviously use the horse for something more than happy hacking.
Additionally you have horses being worked in an outline more at a younger age - and being bred to facilitate that conformationally. Are we or have we bred in faults we didnt know were faults at a low grade but due to putting more pressure on and breeding more for a specific shape etc have we unintentionally bred weaker necks?
Surfaces, circles, less and less turnout, horse prices have gone up (rightly I think) but then are people seeing a youngster as an investment and keeping them "safe" rather than letting them rough off in fields?
Also, better diagnostics, more availability of tools to diagnose, more information available to owners who push for investigation.
And again with rising costs are we more prepared to investigate than we would have bothered with a £300 job from clitheroe or beeston?
I think a big thing is information being widely available now though, if you're that way inclined it's easier than it's ever been to do some research yourself.

 

[ester]

I'm not sure, only one of the ones I know was the sort of horse to be worked in an outline as a youngster/aimed at age classes. All the others have been cobs with minimal expectations on them performance wise. I guess we might not have scanned them so much previously.

 

[paddi22]

I had a horse on a livery yard years ago and a physio kept commenting on how much stiffer his neck was compared to the last time she saw him on another yard. I put it down to him being fed from a high hayrack and also Haynets. he also was in came in at 5pm so he was stood rest of the time with his head out looking out door. the turnout paddock was small there too, so he wasn't grazing or moving with his head down enough. I have him out 24/7 now and his neck issues disappeared.

 

[ycbm]

Loads of ideas, they all seem really reasonable. If you add them all together you can see how there would be a big increase in neck problems being found.

Roxylola I'm mostly not judging from the forum. Local vets are reporting a big increase in neck issues (and I forgot a second neighbour this year too!). Those vets blame draw reins but I'm not so sure. Draw reins have never seemed less popular to me.
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[ycbm]

paddi do you think haynet use has increased? In the first ten or so years I kept horses in livery and haynets were uncommon, the hay was chucked on the floor and when it was gone they ate straw beds.

ETA and of course small hole and ultra small hole nets are a new invention altogether.
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[The Jokers Girl]

What's going on? Horse after horse after horse getting bad x rays on their necks. I've lost one this year, a neighbour had loss of use on one this year, several forum members have retired or PTS this year alone.

Has something changed? Did we just never x ray necks before and only recently realise it's an issue? Or are there really more neck problems, and if so why?
.

Mines had issues with neck due to having soaked hay in a haynet. Physio says its due to the harsh action of pulling the hay sideways which their necks are not designed to do.
Now gets hay at ground level. Once lockdown is over in December physio coming back, hoping that's sorted it. Who knows though?

 

[blodwyn1]

I think it could be due to small holes haynets and trying to restrict forage for overweight horses with restricted turnout. They violently twist their necks trying to get the hay.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes haynets, especially small-holed ones. In fact the modern way of keeping horses, without taking proper account of their real needs. When I was learning about keeping horses, they were mostly fed from either the floor or a manger, if they were stabled and, whatever their job, the majority spent several months living out. Privately owned horses worked in straight lines more than anything else, hunting or hacking, while RS horses tended to work on grass, or earth surfaces and have a mix of work, rater than just schooling in endless circles.

 

[milliepops]

On a personal level I'm much more aware of iffy signs.
Everyone thought I was crazy with both of mine (except one very good physio)

Perhaps like other "of the moment" ailments its just that as awareness increases, more get diagnosed instead of just being clumsy or a bit useless

 

[TPO]

Haynets
Surfaces
"Schooling" over hacking
Gadgets
Better diagnostics
It's this years "thing" so at the front of peoples minds to look out for/ask vet to investigate
Lack of understanding about how to work/train correctly so the front end gets "positioned" by various means

 

[DirectorFury]

I read a study not long ago about the congenital malformation of C6 and C7 in horses with TB breeding - I do wonder how much of what the vets are seeing has been present from birth and how much is down to riding and management.

 

[milliepops]

One of mine is definitely injury related and the other is suspected to be the same so surfaces, haynets and all the other things we can beat ourselves up over are irrelevant. I think there are more like that which just go undiagnosed because they aren't ever asked to be properly straight, supple and using themselves in a "correct" way. Both of mine would have gone along unnoticed for a lot longer outside of sports horse type of environment I expect.

 

[Rowreach]

paddi do you think haynet use has increased? In the first ten or so years I kept horses in livery and haynets were uncommon, the hay was chucked on the floor and when it was gone they ate straw beds.

ETA and of course small hole and ultra small hole nets are a new invention altogether.
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I'm sure there were neck problems before which, like a lot of things we now know to look for and can diagnose more easily, were probably missed or ignored as something else. But I'm 100% sure that the use of haynets and small hole ones in particular is causing a huge new problem for a lot of horses.

 

[P.forpony]

[QUOTE="ycbm, Draw reins have never seemed less popular to me.
.[/QUOTE]

On the face of it perhaps...
I actually have seen far more use of them in the past 3 years in so many settings, from happy hackers to professionals. It’s just seems to have gone behind closed doors now.

Interestingly the only time I had back soreness issues with my 14hh was on an immaculate (and wonderful in almost every way) purpose built full livery yard... all the stables looked magnificent filled with 17.2 warmbloods, but she struggled to look over the door.

 

[TPO]

The thing is correct use of draw reins is fine but it's that old adage a razor blade in the hands of a monkey (or summat like that)

MP makes a good point and at the opposite end to the spectrum frimmwhat ive seen on yards with "compromised" horses. Good riders/trainers asking for straightness and knowing what correct feels like will pick up on subtle things quicker.

 

[Tiddlypom]

IME hay nets and hay racks were more commonly used back in the ole days (1970s) than now. We are now much more aware of the issues with haynets, and feeding from the ground is more commonly practised.

 

[paddy555]

IME hay nets and hay racks were more commonly used back in the ole days (1970s) than now. We are now much more aware of the issues with haynets, and feeding from the ground is more commonly practised.

yes they were commonly used but they had larger holes in the nets and hay pulled easily through the bars of a hay rack so there was no great force required with either. Soaking hay was not as common then and wet hay is harder to get out than dry.
Presumably that was the reason small hole nets were invented because the horse was pulling the hay out far too quickly.

I think there are terrible issues with small mesh hay nets. If you have ever tied one up in the normal position and watched a greedy pig start pulling wet hay out the force on the neck is incredible. They pull it even harder as hay is so restricted due to keeping weight down so they are trying to eat it even faster.

I agree with much of post 11. I don't think the modern way of horse keeping and riding has done them any favours. It's no wonder there are problems.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I read a study not long ago about the congenital malformation of C6 and C7 in horses with TB breeding - I do wonder how much of what the vets are seeing has been present from birth and how much is down to riding and management.

One of mine has arthritis in his neck, just few small changes.

We only found it as he had a rotational fall with my sister jumping and hurt his poll / c1 vet was out the next day but couldn't find anything straight away. We gave him some time off and physio but is was four ish months later when he was getting very heavy in the hand and bracing against the bit we sent him in (much to the view of most of the yard that we were "over reacting")
His neck muscles had gone into such a spasm that they were pulling his c1 off to the left and not allowing him to relax. They found the arthritic changes on I think c5/6 when the xrayed the neck.

Lots of laser therapy and then the one that actually helped was the acupuncture. He had to be sedated for it as he doesn't do needles but you could see the muscles relaxing after a brief vibration.


One of the horses on my yard is going in for a neck ultrasound and xray this week. His behaviour has changed over the last month to a horse completely different than he normally is. Vet came out today and he reacted badly over his neck being palpitated.

 

[paddi22]

paddi do you think haynet use has increased? In the first ten or so years I kept horses in livery and haynets were uncommon, the hay was chucked on the floor and when it was gone they ate straw beds.

ETA and of course small hole and ultra small hole nets are a new invention altogether.
.

yeah I don't really remember Haynets years ago. I don't think they'd have had the patience to fill them on some yards back in the day. hay was just thrown in over the door, or when they hayracks were put in, they had massive gaps and it fell through anyway. you'd have to imagine the twisting and pulling at Haynets isn't a natural movement and would have to have some effect.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

IME hay nets and hay racks were more commonly used back in the ole days (1970s) than now. We are now much more aware of the issues with haynets, and feeding from the ground is more commonly practised.

I wouldn't have said so.

 

[ycbm]

No, I wouldn't either , because back then they were hemp, and horribly difficult to manage, and I only remember them used for transporting hay when the horse was travelled somewhere.
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[Goldenstar]

it’s the issue du jour atm .
Horses have always got neck problems now it’s recognised and diagnosed .

 

[Tiddlypom]

We did use hay nets in the stable, and so did most others in Pony Club. Different coloured draw strings (homemade from baler twine) for each horse. Maybe that was just local practice.

Yes, the hay nets were made of hemp, which was a bit smelly. The holes were quite large.

I’ve been told that the latest idea on good practice is not just to feed from the floor, but to hang nets at different heights as well as having some hay on the floor, so that the horse is using different muscle groups to feed.

 

[ycbm]

it’s the issue du jour atm .
Horses have always got neck problems now it’s recognised and diagnosed .

So the question is why wasn't it recognised and diagnosed before?
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[BBP]

I have to admit I was pretty shocked when BBPs neck and back X-rays came back completely clean, you couldn’t hope to see nicer X-rays. Yet he’s a horse whose natural posture out in the field is head up, looking for danger, with a big old under neck muscle and hollow back. I was convinced that that, combined with his field acrobatics, would make him an ideal candidate for neck and back issues to show up on X-ray.

I think social media has a lot to do with the increased diagnosis of it. Like with PSSM and ulcers, there is a lot more information floating around out there now, that is accessible to owners, who then spot signs sooner and get vets to investigate earlier.

Certainly as a teenager I rode in draw reins, fed from haynets, rode in lots of circles on all sorts of surfaces, and my horses were ‘fine’. And yet they probably weren’t fine. There were probably lots of signs that things were wrong that I missed, because I wasn’t surrounded by the same information I am now.

Plus we now hear about the diagnoses more. Years ago if my horse was diagnosed with something only me and the vet knew, I didn’t share it all over the internet.

 

[Xmasha]

It’s something I’d love an answer to, and something I beat myself up about . I lost my first homebred to neck arthritis at the age of 9 . I keep looking back for signs that I missed that I could have sorted out earlier . But recently it’s been brought to my attention that a couple of horses by the same stallion have been PTS while still relatively young . Both owned by people I know . I did a bit of Googling , and found a couple of others also deceased at an early age . Weirdly enough they where all geldings too. These where all sports horse types, bred to jump .
Harry was never put in draw reins or over schooled . He had a haybar and plenty of turnout . Maybe there is an inherent weakness passed down that particular line. If only the stud books monitored things like this .

 

[ihatework]

I doubt it’s any different to any other condition that is more frequently diagnosed these days, and multi factorial

Advances in veterinary techniques

Increase in reporting/awareness means subtle non specific symptoms are noted earlier

Changes in horse management

An element of poor riding for some

I believe some will have a genetic predisposition

Injury - I’ve seen a few cases in ex racers that when digging into their history had crunching falls. Youngstock can do utterly daft things, especially when learning about pressure on their heads. Pulling back on any, but particularly young spinal joints can’t be good