What's going on with necks?

[WandaMare]

My cob cross mare started with neck arthritis at 11. She always found it difficult to work in an outline and didn't enjoy school work so I never pushed it, she was used mainly for hacking. I think it was the haynets with her, she was a massively good doer and came to me as a broodmare and significantly overweight. It was always a job to keep her weight in check and I had to stop using small holed nets because the aggression and frustration she displayed while eating was inevitably going to cause her some back or neck problems. I wouldn't use them with horses again, I prefer using a normal haynet or hay rack now.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Forced into an outline too early ? Age classes never seem right to me, 4 year olds doing the work in a frame of a 6 year old.

i noticed that we had more joint issues once yards were relying on walkers more, especially with the larger horse who is maturing about 7, the continuous bend was putting more strain on the joints as they were developing.

because of the cost of training and breeding, i personally think as AA has said to much to young before the horse is mature enough, this is more of an observation than a criticism

 

[SEL]

Certainly as a teenager I rode in draw reins, fed from haynets, rode in lots of circles on all sorts of surfaces, and my horses were ‘fine’. And yet they probably weren’t fine. There were probably lots of signs that things were wrong that I missed, because I wasn’t surrounded by the same information I am now.

Plus we now hear about the diagnoses more. Years ago if my horse was diagnosed with something only me and the vet knew, I didn’t share it all over the internet.

I'd never heard of PSSM until I randomly came across an internet article and had a lightbulb moment about my mare. 25 ish years ago I rode a gypsy cob for a while who these days I would test for it - back then I just thought she could be sluggish and lazy until she warmed up. I'm another who winces at times thinking back on horses I used to ride who I thought were fine but were very likely not. Pretty sure my old warmblood would be diagnosed with kissing spine now but I don't think I knew what it was when I had him - certainly the 'bring the horse into the hospital and we'll run a huge swathe of diagnostic tests' wasn't mentioned.

I think problems with the necks were never thought to correlate to problems under saddle. Fortunately we are better informed now and hopefully horses have better treatment as a result.

 

[Nudibranch]

Increased awareness is definitely a factor. How many things do we know about now that didn't "exist" when we were kids?
I suspect breeding from stock on either side without a proven performance/soundness record is also a big part. I lost one at a young age to multiple issues including neck. He wasn't right even before the age of 2 (I bought him at weaning). Never set foot in an arena, wore basic saddle and bridle, only ever hacked out to build his strength and balance (fail). Lived out 24/7 and ate his hay from the ground. But he was a big horse, with what may have been some inbreeding, so I am almost certain he was born that way.

 

[Melody Grey]

I partly blame insurance- driving a culture to investigate more in equine hospitals with more powerful equipment than used to be accessible back in the day when much more was done at home in the field.

 

[Melody Grey]

The other part of the blame is endless lunging and schooling on artificial surfaces with gadgets (admittedly, in knowledgeable hands some are helpful).

 

[IrishMilo]

it’s the issue du jour atm .
Horses have always got neck problems now it’s recognised and diagnosed .

I think this is the crux of it. These issues have always been there, same for KS, PSD, PSSM etc., we just never had the foresight or resources before.

 

[tallyho!]

https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

 

[Xmasha]

https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

Thats really interesting, thanks for posting. My lad had one shoulder larger than the other. Makes sense.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We did use hay nets in the stable, and so did most others in Pony Club. Different coloured draw strings (homemade from baler twine) for each horse. Maybe that was just local practice.

Yes, the hay nets were made of hemp, which was a bit smelly. The holes were quite large.

I’ve been told that the latest idea on good practice is not just to feed from the floor, but to hang nets at different heights as well as having some hay on the floor, so that the horse is using different muscle groups to feed.

I think it probably was. My RI who also taught Pony Club and was an influential member of the local Hunt would not use them because she remembered seeing a pony strangle itself in one, when she was a child. I don't know why she couldn't find an adult to sort it out but she would be child in the 1930s/40s, so obviously they were in use to some degree then but certainly not on her yard and not on the farm where we kept our first horse.

 

[milliepops]

I’ve been told that the latest idea on good practice is not just to feed from the floor, but to hang nets at different heights as well as having some hay on the floor, so that the horse is using different muscle groups to feed.

yes I have also been recommended this by a physio, it's to simulate how they browse when at liberty.

 

[ycbm]

https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

This is what I expected when I took my TB for neck x rays. Unfortunately, he didn't have it. But he did have big arthritic changes at C4/5, 5/6 and 6/7 that I don't think can have been caused any other way than by an undisclosed crunching fall, possibly while in training as a hurdler, before I bought him. I suspect now that it's why he never ran.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

yes I have also been recommended this by a physio, it's to simulate how they browse when at liberty.

It was chiro vet who mentioned it to me. I can’t remember who she said had done the study.

We were musing how something which has been drummed into you for years ‘Must Feed From The Floor’/‘haynets are bad’ gets turned around when new evidence comes in.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

The other part of the blame is endless lunging and schooling on artificial surfaces with gadgets (admittedly, in knowledgeable hands some are helpful).

I'm a huge hater of gadgets, as most are used in the wrong hands and incorrectly. What ever happened to hard work, perseverance and dedication to get your horse working nicely. So many are hoicked into an "outline" their chin between their knees and the horse is still sunken backed and towing its hind end ?

 

[Cortez]

I've only ever had one horse with a neck problem (oh, and a wobbler whose lesion was in the neck), and his neck arthritis was diagnosed as relating to pulling back and crashing over when a foal. Friend-who-is-a-vet specialising in orthopedics says neck injuries are most common in thoroughbreds off the track (he's in the US), so not connected to being ridden on the bit. People have been using hay nets since the Middle Ages, so I don't think it's that alone either. Perhaps it's just the ailment de jour, kissing spines used to be, or ulcers, navicular, etc., etc.

 

[Somewhat Off The Way]

Genuine question, why would an artificial surface cause neck problems? And are some surfaces worse than others (I.e. rubber vs sand)

 

[Goldenstar]

We did use hay nets in the stable, and so did most others in Pony Club. Different coloured draw strings (homemade from baler twine) for each horse. Maybe that was just local practice.

Yes, the hay nets were made of hemp, which was a bit smelly. The holes were quite large.

I’ve been told that the latest idea on good practice is not just to feed from the floor, but to hang nets at different heights as well as having some hay on the floor, so that the horse is using different muscle groups to feed.

We do this nets with small holes hanging away from the walls so they swing freely ( lie a wreaking ball )encourages browsing type behaviour and from the floor loose .

 

[Arzada]

Interestingly the only time I had back soreness issues with my 14hh was on an immaculate (and wonderful in almost every way) purpose built full livery yard... all the stables looked magnificent filled with 17.2 warmbloods, but she struggled to look over the door.

I think that in an average resting position even the eyes of a 17.2 would be below the top of a standard door so pretty much all horses when looking out/resting over a stable door are in an unnatural/forces rest pose. And yes it's harder for the smaller horses.

 

[tallyho!]

This is what I expected when I took my TB for neck x rays. Unfortunately, he didn't have it. But he did have big arthritic changes at C4/5, 5/6 and 6/7 that I don't think can have been caused any other way than by an undisclosed crunching fall, possibly while in training as a hurdler, before I bought him. I suspect now that it's why he never ran.
.

Oh poor lad. There's some interesting articles on that website about that too... especially about ex-racers and how you can tell what injury they may have had and what to look out for. There's definitely been some very interesting dissections and discussions on FB lately by Sharon May-Davies and Dr David Marlin. Lots of case studies but very informative.

 

[Goldenstar]

My experience is that sore fore feet can cause arthritic necks .

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Y'know, I've wondered this too, but have no answers.

I saw something similar with Kissing Spine though. I had never heard much about it for many, many, years. Then all of the sudden cases were being diagnosed every where. I don't know if awareness spread or what.

I do get nervous about my horse eating from nets. I hang them lower and the soaked one has larger holes, but still.

 

[Melody Grey]

My experience is that sore fore feet can cause arthritic necks .

And back problems....and suspensory issues....and just about everything else mechanical!

 

[IrishMilo]

My experience is that sore fore feet can cause arthritic necks .

Think this one is possibly a chicken/egg situation.

 

[oldie48]

It seems posts like this tend to bring out our own prejudices with regard to how we care for and ride our horses. I've only owned/ridden for the past 20 years or so but I think the access that we have to diagnostic tests, the regular use of therapists such as physios etc and the of good information on the internet means we are just more aware of issues than we were in the past. I also think we have improved the care of horses generally and we are much less likely to ascribe behavioural issues to temperament so will look at physical issues first. I never heard of neck issues 20 years ago but I bet horses still had them, same goes for ulcers, EMS, PPSM etc

 

[pastit]

Small holed haynets are dreadful as is the practice of double netting. Owners are pleased when they find hay left in the morning. To me it proves that the horse has given up most likely because his neck hurts. Also I think the TB genes are more widespread than they ever used to be, albeit in crosses or retrained racers, and due to everyone chasing the same winner, the gene pool is poorer. There's been a big rise in hoof problems too - same origin I think.

 

[IrishMilo]

Small holed haynets are dreadful as is the practice of double netting.

I hate it. Not only bad for muscles but also teeth and mental health.

 

[ester]

Like lots of things it's a matter of balance though, sometimes you have to do things you'd rather not to avoid other health issues.

 

[milliepops]

Like lots of things it's a matter of balance though, sometimes you have to do things you'd rather not to avoid other health issues.

yes, and also not all horses attack haynets in a violent or frustrated manner, my welsh eats hers the same way whether in a hay bar on the ground or in a small holed net, she delicately selects a mouthful without tugging or awkwardly pulling. i use a small holed net for her because they are the biggest nets I can find, for some odd reason it's hard to find big nets with big holes. TB won't eat hay that's been on the ground so he has multiple big hole nets.

 

[Regandal]

This is interesting.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Predominantly_Observed_in_Thoroughbred_Horses

 

[tallyho!]

My experience is that sore fore feet can cause arthritic necks .

And vice versa - imbalance anywhere will put something else out elsewhere...

Nothigs ever perfect and lets face it imbalance begins in the womb and then humans come along.