When is mentally damaged too damaged

[PipsqueakXy22]

I’m a bit confused by your post. Do you not want to keep the horse? I can’t really work that out.
Is the catching issue putting a dampener on it do you think? Because otherwise it sounds like you enjoy him.
Forget about the backstory and what may or may not have happened, that’s irrelevant and I actually think quite unhelpful in this instance because I feel it has put human feelings on him and you are now struggling to see past it.
He’s a horse. He does horse things. Not all horses have a fabulous zest for life but it doesn’t mean he’s unhappy and I can guarantee that he’s not spending his days worrying about the day he gets passed on again.
Treat him well, give him safety, food, some pals and be someone constant in his life.
Is he turned out with a friend to get some scratchy time etc?

I can’t speak for OP but I guess when I was in a similar situation I often had fears over if I was doing the right thing, if he’d be better off with someone else… etc. I sometimes thought my horse hated me and that I was making him miserable by asking him to do things and if I should just give up for both of our sakes and have him as a field ornament where he’d be happy left alone, i also don’t feel like I’m someone who needs loads of love and affection and validation from a horse, but when your horse pins his ears at the sight of you all the time it just made me wonder what he was thinking. That was my thoughts anyways. I’m assuming that’s kind of what OP is feeling now and just wants reassurance she is doing the right thing by him

 

[pistolpete]

I’d recommend consulting a behaviourist like Ben Hart. Or try some tellington touch on him.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

Have a look at Richard Maxwell. He's doing UK wide demos shortly.

His books Maximise your Horsemanship and 20mins a day to unlock your horse's talent are probably the most relevant.

Using his circling groundwork turned my uncatchable (5hrs to walk down after being left out alone to "encourage" her to be caught was the record) into am easy to catch. After doing that work if she ever made to walk off I could just circle her and get her to turn in to me.

I know how frustrating it is having an uncatchable and how it can affect the tone of the rest of the time spent with the horse.

Agree with the others that a year isn't long especially with a horse used to being passed around.

To go against the grain I think a fi Al permanent home is a much better option than a retirement home. He sounds like a very useful sort and seems almost a shame to retire him.

Second this! Richard maxwell is brilliant

 

[Winters100]

So this is a video of one of these 'communicators'

I could not bring myself to watch the whole video, but from what I did see the horse said:

He appreciates the clean bed
He has seen other horses leaving so wonders if he is staying (a competition yard, so you do not need to be Sherlock to imagine that some horses are sold)
He said something about another horse that was lame, maybe him or maybe one of the other horses around (again not very difficult to imagine that in a stable this size some horse would have been unsound). Owner confirms that one of his other horses is lame, and she then says the horse speaks about it as if it is family
He once had a saddle that was not fitting perfectly

Honestly I do not know how these people stay in business!

 

[scats]

I can’t speak for OP but I guess when I was in a similar situation I often had fears over if I was doing the right thing, if he’d be better off with someone else… etc. I sometimes thought my horse hated me and that I was making him miserable by asking him to do things and if I should just give up for both of our sakes and have him as a field ornament where he’d be happy left alone, i also don’t feel like I’m someone who needs loads of love and affection and validation from a horse, but when your horse pins his ears at the sight of you all the time it just made me wonder what he was thinking. That was my thoughts anyways. I’m assuming that’s kind of what OP is feeling now and just wants reassurance she is doing the right thing by him

Sometimes Millie looks at me like I’m something she’s just stepped in ?. But I try not to take it too personally! She’s just not a fussy, cuddly type who wants human company. She likes horse company and grass or a haynet. She quite enjoys our hacks and stuff together and is very amenable to my requests, but the reality is I’m just the two legged provider of food and she’d rather be with Polly than me.
That’s fair enough.

 

[teapot]

I'd have him in a heartbeat OP!

IDs are intelligent and sometimes I think misunderstood as a specific type/expectation placed upon them, when they can actually be anything from stoic and quiet to cheeky in your face gits. A year isn't long in the scheme of things for him to truly relax and settle.

 

[Regandal]

My best horse ever was an ex-hireling. To say he disliked humans was an understatement, but he eventually warmed up towards them. Just takes time and consistent treatment.
If you do decide to move him on, I would be very interested!

 

[bouncing_ball]

I can’t imagine not trying an obviously unhappy horse in a turnout with company situation. Yes you’d have to address the catching issue. Yes you might need professional help to do so. Worth it I think.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think you've attributed far too much weight to what the "communicator" has told you!

Do you like the horse? Does he do the job you want? Yes? Then keep him and accept him for what he is right now. Work on the catching issue. It's a training issue not emotional trauma. Give him treats.

Give him time! They takes while to come round, especially if they've had a few homes.

He's a horse, not a romantic poet.

 

[Winters100]

He's a horse, not a romantic poet.

This made me laugh out loud! Brilliant!

 

[Red-1]

I suspect it is the time of year. It is tough, just before spring.

He sounds lovely. I think I appreciate him (from afar) even more if he thinks badly of humans yet is still kind and mannerly.

To put it in perspective, I once had a mare where she was so shut down, we celebrated when she bit Mr Red for the first time. Why? Because she had expressed an opinion. It was the first time she had dared to. It took time but she came out of her shell.

One thing we found was that she was better when allowed to be a horse, as in not pressured to also be a friend. The real bonding time with her (and a couple of others we had) was when she was ill (she had an eye operation after getting a cancer- the others less dramatic) and we nursed her.

I seem to think you have had a wobble at this time of year before, forgive me if I am wrong. I would decide to decide what to do on 1 June.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I think that the OP has previously stated that he was fed up with horses, and was thinking of getting out of them. I know that feeling...

That was before he got this latest horse. Is it 'this' horse, or is it horses in general that the OP is disenchanted with?

Maybe it's time to move on to other things. The horse sounds like a decent sort, and many of us would be pleased to own him.

 

[M&M&G]

I wonder too whether it is the time of year and to give yourself some space and see how you feel in the spring.

I would not take too much notice of the communicators messages but instead think about what you are communicating with him. Perhaps you are unconsciously putting too much emotional pressure and expectation on him. I was doing the same with my horse albeit different pressure and expectation and found my connection was vastly improved through a Trust technique practitioner. It's hard to explain but I had to let go of all that and just be present and observe. Some of the cues are so small and subtle, blink and you'll miss them (sometimes it is a blink!). But once tuned in you may realise that your horse is communicating and trying to connect in a way that you are missing.

Good luck, I hope you find what you are seeking with him X

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Too damaged for what? When I saw the thread title I assumed this would be a issue of risk/safety with an explosive horse.

I have 2 mares, neither of whom are friendly. Amber is not scared of people she is just aloof and prefers to be left alone. But she has a great work ethic and I love the bones of her. Her resting bitch face has never bothered me one bit nor have I ever worried about her.

Lottie is extremely wary of people. She is not generally a stressy nervous horse. She is actually pretty relaxed about things but does flinch in the stable if you move too quickly, is head shy and over-reacts to humans doing anything she isn't expecting. My RI gave er a prod to move her nearer the mounting block and she went into orbit. Loading her is easy but you couldn't initially tie her to the twine hanging down from the ceiling as the raised hand freaked her out. First day she threw her head and whacked it on the trailer roof and shot out backwards. After that she was fine to reload - the trailer wasn't the problem but the hand. That makes me sad because everything about those reactions tells me she has learned to be scared of people and because I honestly believe she would like to be affectionate. I think her natural inclination is to seek comfort. She is quite affectionate when we are loose in a field but chases people away from her stable. But she is much more comfortable when she is working as I think she knows what to expect more. But my sadness about her wariness never translates to 'should I sell her?' Why would I? I like her MORE because she works hard for me despite her feelings about humans in general. And makes me feel MORE committed to helping her relax and find comfort with me. And by seeking comfort I don;t mean she has to become affectionate/cuddly. But I do want her to feel relaxed and safe around me.

I am not makling her anxious, she brings the anxiety to the party herself and I like to think I will offer a good home becasue I care and want the best for her and spend a huge amount of time on relationship buillding/trust.

Re the catching - I was told she was hard to catch when I got her. She was hard to catch on day 1 but then became very easy at my old yard with crap grazing. But then she moved to much better grazing and catching became an issue again. I spent weeks working on it. And finally we nailed it on a sunny afternoon where I caught and released her 6 times, left it for an hour then caught her 4 more. Only ending when she finally 'caught me'. And she now 'catches me' every time. It takes time and effort. And you need a system/plan. But there are plenty of people out there who can help you with that.

If you don't want the horse then feel free to sell on. But ther is no reason why this horse is 'too damaged' to live a happy useful life with you.

 

[Spotherisk]

My gelding is 30 this year and I’ve owned him 25 years, always been on diy or kept at home, he still wouldn’t thank me for a hug! He will tolerate a quick one then walk away or shut down, but if there’s a problem he looks to me. OP your horse sounds very genuine.

 

[Goldenstar]

Catching is a trained thing if a horse is bad at striking off into canter then you work to improve that .
I think catching is just another thing you spend time on if it’s a weakness .
OP ought to delete the so called AC comments from her mind .
It’s not as if this person has seen the horse .
It’s not easy to find a horse that does a job under saddle safely I would not be selling one that did without getting some help to train the catching .

 

[Antw23uk]

Thank you all for some much needed (and some hard to take) support. I think being on my own at home it can sometimes feel overwhelming and lonely, not helped by the weather and lack of facilities. I really appreciate everyone's time to respond.

 

[Equi]

I’m going along the same lines as everyone else. I think you’ve created this story for him in your head and are putting all your own baggage onto him. He’s a horse. As long as he has company, food and a decent handler he will be happy. My old lad took a few years to settle he was something similar, a horse that had had a good life but then went into the loaning/hireling type life and came back damaged both physically and mentally. There wasn’t a bad bone in his body though so I worked with him through his bad days and eventually they became nonexistent but it definitely did take a good two years.

 

[tda]

When I read the first few paragraphs of this post and got to the part about not turning out in company it made me a little sad, because that , to me, is exactly what the horse needs!
Think people sometimes get confused to what a horse needs to be happy/comfortable.

 

[Goldenstar]

Thank you all for some much needed (and some hard to take) support. I think being on my own at home it can sometimes feel overwhelming and lonely, not helped by the weather and lack of facilities. I really appreciate everyone's time to respond.

I wish you only good things with him .
Beware overthinking with horses .
Get some help with the catching .
At the very least try to get into a smallish bare paddock on his own and do the give a snack and leave thing .
Get a field safe head collar and put a short piece of rope on it and leave it on .
Once he will take food from you progress to touch the rope giving the snack and walking away , then sometimes lead him a few steps and then leave and so on some horses will need you to top this approach through out there lives and I routinely go up to my horses in the field and leave without catching them through out their time here usually in summer .
I have only had one who remained difficult she was bottled raised and very quirky but even she came to in the end .

 

[eahotson]

My old horse was a bit like that.I don't think he had been badly treated as such but I was his fifth home in nine years! On top of which he was in a lot of pain from a badly fitted saddle,harsh incorrect schooling.He also had COPD although at his vetting (which he passed) the vet said viral infection.
He was visibly upset when he changed hands and they do know! A few months later I took him to a camp and he was very relaxed.He knew he hadn't changed homes.He was difficult to catch for the staff (but never for me funnily enough).He was though very shut down.It took a while for him at feel settled I think, feel better physically i.e. properly fitted saddle,physio and COPD managed correctly.He was worth it. A lovely boy who owned no one anything.
He is now retired in a retirement home for horses and he settled there very quickly and very well.

 

[Goldenstar]

When I read the first few paragraphs of this post and got to the part about not turning out in company it made me a little sad, because that , to me, is exactly what the horse needs!
Think people sometimes get confused to what a horse needs to be happy/comfortable.

People need a horse they can catch in a non stressful way .
To train this the horse needs to be alone in a paddock while OP works on this .
You can train horses to be caught in a group of horses however I assume Op is in livery and I don’t think it’s practical to expect others to accept someone driving a horse around a field to stop it grazing or drinking as its disruptive to the other horses that’s how I trained the bottle fed mare ( I was young and fit then ) .
Horses are expensive to keep they need to develop the skills they need to find and keep good homes being caught is one of those skills .

 

[Ownedby4horses]

OP, you’ve got some very good advice, one thing I must have missed is that he turned out alone? Horses are herd animals and he needs company.

My mare had to be kept separate from my three tiny tots for Some time, as she was aggressive to a bigger gelding we had on livery (after very careful lengthily introductions), she is now turned out with the three little ones (her attitude changed when they were transported from the UK to here together and she became “friends” and she’s a different horse again, now she has company. Initially she was a little reluctant to come in without them but very quickly resolved when I brought her in for regular fuss and treats and nice things.

We are all feeling disheartened at this time of year, we’ve been down to minus 14 windchill here and this year has felt extremely hard. Hang on in there, being on your own at home is tough. He needs a buddy (or two!).

 

[Antw23uk]

People need a horse they can catch in a non stressful way .
To train this the horse needs to be alone in a paddock while OP works on this .
You can train horses to be caught in a group of horses however I assume Op is in livery and I don’t think it’s practical to expect others to accept someone driving a horse around a field to stop it grazing or drinking as its disruptive to the other horses that’s how I trained the bottle fed mare ( I was young and fit then ) .
Horses are expensive to keep they need to develop the skills they need to find and keep good homes being caught is one of those skills .

Thanks Goldenstar, I appreciate everyone's comments but often know when you respond we seem to be on the same page. He is kept at home but surrounded by horses and ponies (very equestrian area) so easily described as individual turnout. Its too disruptive and upsetting for everyone involved when he is turned out with others, he knows exactly how to hide behind them and move them into your way, it just turns into a mess no matter how quiet and calm you stay. I wont rule it out long term, especially as i am planning a track system this year, but for now we are where we are with the individual turnout. The fields arent big, his friends surrounding him rarely go anywhere and certainly not altogether so he grooms and socialises with them. We'll work on the catching and i will get some help in to support.

 

[SEL]

I had to keep one on individual turnout for human safety for a while - in fact until I got her a companion that she adored. Sometimes what isn't ideal is necessary

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Hang in there OP, it will get easier, especially as the lighter mornings and evenings are starting. ?.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Can you get him a pony friend?

 

[milliepops]

having difficult horses that you have to manage by yourself in not-perfect circumstances is really knackering at the best of times and as already mentioned this time of year is especially tough. KOKO.

 

[SOS]

having difficult horses that you have to manage by yourself in not-perfect circumstances is really knackering at the best of times and as already mentioned this time of year is especially tough. KOKO.

Can I ask what KOKO means?

 

[milliepops]

Keep On Keeping On