When would you expect livery yards to reopen

[ester]

fwiw I am ignoring the cycle paths here because they are mixed use paths and it is impossible to distance
I am also giving pedestrians on a path much more space though checking behind first (just aware it might look a bit erratic to a car driver)

This has meant that I have found 2 stretches of road which are practically unrideable on the left hand side of the lane, so it might look to others that I am riding in the middle of the road but I am continually checking if I am going to have to try and move over.

A very nice chap went all the way round a roundabout and back again on sunday as he thought I might have a puncture, I didn't I was sorting something else out and do go fully prepped for on the road repairs anyway but was nice of him to ask.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

You think that it is ‘disgusting‘ that GAs are being rationed at the moment ?

The reasons for not giving a GA unless it is an emergency is because the GA presents a much elevated risk of inadvertent CV19 transmission to the surgical team, especially to the anaesthetist. You will have read about the significant number of medics who have died of CV19. Much work is currently going on as to how to allow more routine operations to
take place, but with satisfactory protection for the hospital staff.

Cycling itself is not particularly dangerous as long as it is done sensibly, but in my bro’s area there are many more cyclists than usual out, often with little experience, and they are burning off their lockdown frustrations at speed and crashing. Life threatening injuries will always go to theatre if necessary, but currently not the more run of the mill ones.

This is the text that bro (a surgeon) sent me. It is, of course, referring to cyclists but the general principle of what happens if you break bones atm still stands.

During this time of lockdown boredom taking risks on the road and trails in ***** is becoming a major cause of injuries.
Cars and motorcycles taking the opportunity to speed along the almost empty roads leads to the 'usual' life changing or threatening accidents as per last night.
However the most common disease which has led to emergency major surgery in the last few weeks is " Bicycle related injury".
Only the really serious incidents are getting to theatre as with the increased anaesthetic risk of operations with the virus, less life changing injuries are being accepted and treated by slings or plaster and wait.
From fractured femurs and arm bones for the orthopedic surgeons and ruptured bowels for me, the cyclists are becoming the most common cause of major trauma operations.
Do readjust your thinking when both on cycle paths and off-road trail biking.
A lot more people than usual are getting their cycles out to burn off both calories and frustration.
Just remember as you set off on your bike to let off steam, that many people do not 'do' pain and physical immobility very well. So being stuck inside at home with a painful broken major bone for months will not improve your sense of humour.
Be sensible‘

So be aware of that in your risk assessments.

ETA And don’t blame my bro, he is not an orthopaedic surgeon, so that is not his choice to make.

I didn’t say that. I said it’s disgusting if you NEED surgery including if you don’t get it and could suffer long term and be unable to function properly as a result. And yes of course if you can avoid it you should. I’m not blaming any individual. In my close family I have a nephew GP who formerly trained as an anaesthetist for two years before switching as he couldn’t cope with working nights and his obstetrician wife still performing several c sections a day so I do get to hear a lot about it.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I can believe that. The major road that goes to the yard has become a cyclist slalom course. I like riding my bike as much as anyone, but no amount of money could ever convince me to ride a bike (or a horse) on that road. It's fast, narrow, busy, and wiggly.

There was a group of 4 mamils cycling in the woods at the weekend that sounded like a bunch of baboons, they cycled past me at a high rate of knots walking my dog and I said something about social distancing and they made some rude remarks back.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Urgent trauma operations for injuries with the potential to be life threatening or life changing are still going ahead, and have throughout the pandemic.

The bar for a theatre slot has been raised rather higher, though, for injuries that do not come into that category, which will leave some people with a more protracted and uncertain recovery. It’s easier to successfully realign a complicated fracture under GA, for sure.

Seeing as there is a huge backlog of elective surgery including for cancer because of CV19, I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised that orthopaedic surgery is any different?

Anyhow, it is what is currently happening, so be aware and take care, folks.

ETA And like ester I sometimes cycle in the middle of the road to facilitate social distancing from pedestrians, or to avoid a pot hole, though my trusty rear view mirror helps me keep close tabs on following traffic.

 

[ester]

I've tried a bar end mirror but can't get it looking the right way .
and I need one on the other side for getting of one of said cycleways as it's a horrible angle you meet the road at you'd need to be an owl to see.

 

[Arzada]

fwiw I am ignoring the cycle paths here because they are mixed use paths

Exactly. It's time to call them what they are which is shared paths. People refer to cycle paths when in reality there are very few cycle paths.

 

[southerncomfort]

I'm a bit bemused by the idea of following BHS advice to be honest. Its been a very long time since I thought of them as being relevant to be honest let alone some sort of equine governing body. I can see why BHS registered yards might feel compelled to follow their advice but why would anyone else consider them to be any kind of authority?

 

[ester]

Exactly. It's time to call them what they are which is shared paths. People refer to cycle paths when in reality there are very few cycle paths.

People only slow long enough to swear at me through their car windows, rather than to find out why I might be on the road instead . Even in normal times walkers complain if you are on the path, car drivers complain if I'm on the road.

What I would really have liked them to do is not hide the paths behind grass verges which means you can only pop on/off them at the end points. My main one you commit before a blind bend both ends.

 

[Winters100]

Right so you’re left crippled and in pain and cannot work for the rest of your life because you should have had surgery? Or does this only apply to people who doctors think don’t deserve it because it’s their choice? Of course that that would be totally unethical. Just as well you’re not one. Surgery should obviously avoided wherever possible in normal circumstances but performed for best outcomes where needed. And yes I’m sure some surgery can wait. A friend who broke her arm just prior to lock down made her own choice not to have surgeryas she wanted to avoid hospitalisation.

No, this is not what I am saying. I really doubt that anyone will be left "crippled" as a result of the clinical decisions being taken at the moment, if they are it is as a result of an error in judgement (which of course sadly happens in any walk of life). And no doctor who I have met takes account of their like or dislike of a patient, or indeed the actions of that patient, when making these decisions. But the fact remains that, as Tiddlypom correctly says, at present there will be people who will not have surgery, when under normal circumstances it would be the likely choice. Whether any of us like this or not is immaterial, and it is no different for someone having an accident or someone suffering from an illness which would benefit from immediate surgery, but which can wait in these circumstances.

 

[Arzada]

People only slow long enough to swear at me through their car windows, rather than to find out why I might be on the road instead . Even in normal times walkers complain if you are on the path, car drivers complain if I'm on the road.

Well round here the roads are way safer than the shared paths. I have yet to encounter an off lead out of control dog on the roads so as a result I have not been attacked by a Doberman, run into by a large 'oodle' nor ambushed and taken down by a Springer appearing as if by magic (actually from hiding in a ditch) in front of my wheel!

Whatever you do ester you will be in the wrong! I used to worry about the freely offered 'advice' thinking I was somehow in the wrong but it's not the case. It's that you can't do right for doing wrong.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hi
My livery yard is closed and I haven't seen my ponies since 15th of March. When would you expect livery yards to open again? This is a small yard with only 3 liveries. The yard owner lives on site with their family, none of which are especially vulnerable. I saw a suggested 3 stage plan for the UK online but can't seem to add the screenshot to this post.

Basically 11th may for hairdressers and none essential shops, 18th May for businesses under 50 people and 23rd June for pubs and gyms.

What's your opinion on when yards should open?

Mine has not closed, we left it to livery to be sensible and keep the 2 meter distance, it is too much for me to do the whole lot single handed.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The BHS are gearing themselves up to provide an update to their current advice during the pandemic. We shall all wait agog for these pearls of wisdom.

As we all know, the UK Government will be providing updated information on lockdown restrictions at a briefing in the late afternoon or early evening of Sunday 10th May,

The British Horse Society will provide an updated statement to the equestrian community on Monday 11th May by 16.00 hours, once details have been clarified and understood. We will publish new advice and guidance for horse owners, BHS approved centres and our Accredited Professional Coaches, on the same day. We will then, of course, provide further communication to our members, supporters and additional stakeholders in the days ahead.

We understand how important it is that we are able to provide and share useful and relevant information with the whole equestrian community and will be working on that immediately the UK Government position is formally communicated.

https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/press-centre/news/2020/may/bhs-update

 

[DirectorFury]

Good lord, there’s a very self-important tone in that statement! We shall all wait on tenterhooks for the guidance of our equine overlord, the BHS.

 

[WandaMare]

I would actually expect the BHS statement to be quite formal like that tbh. Statements from the BHS can be important to horse related businesses when deciding on their own individual policies, they give them more credence and would probably affect their insurance if anything were to happen.

As a small business owner myself, I find that are customers are much more respectful of our rules when they see they are in compliance with regulatory bodies than if they think we are putting them together ourselves.

 

[southerncomfort]

But is the BHS a regulatory body?

Presumably it can only regulate riding establishments that are BHS registered? Outside of that I tend to see it as an organisation that campaigns on behalf of horse owners and equine businesses.

It doesn't have any authority over anyone though. Giving *advice* is fine (if it is science based and backed by government rules/advice) but they are not rule makers themselves.

 

[ycbm]

The BHS are gearing themselves up to provide an update to their current advice during the pandemic. We shall all wait agog for these pearls of wisdom.

As we all know, the UK Government will be providing updated information on lockdown restrictions at a briefing in the late afternoon or early evening of Sunday 10th May,

The British Horse Society will provide an updated statement to the equestrian community on Monday 11th May by 16.00 hours, once details have been clarified and understood. We will publish new advice and guidance for horse owners, BHS approved centres and our Accredited Professional Coaches, on the same day. We will then, of course, provide further communication to our members, supporters and additional stakeholders in the days ahead.

We understand how important it is that we are able to provide and share useful and relevant information with the whole equestrian community and will be working on that immediately the UK Government position is formally communicated.

https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/press-centre/news/2020/may/bhs-update

Let's hope they don't choose to add stuff the government hasn't actually said this time.

.

 

[Gingerwitch]

My old yard is haemorrhaging full liveries, the yard cannot survive with the DIY only revenue, and I have just had to threaten them with small claims to get my deposit back. All they keep saying is they cannot afford to refund my deposit this is just shy of £1800 - I had 3 on full livery, they are going to attempt to pay me half next week and half first week of June. They have asked if I want to move back..... erm No thank you.

Why did i leave - because we were banned from attending the yard when DIY liveries were still allowed to hack, bath and basically socialise whilst everyone on Full Livery was barred from the yard.

My new but old yard, I was here before but moved due to the travel time, has been very good about the whole issue, they understand that these are someones horses and have introduced slot times, we are not allowed to ride over the bank holiday weekend and have been told go to yard, get your jobs done and do your chatting on one of the apps, if you are seen taking liberties with either your time on the yard or riding or standing around in groups then that individual or group will be banned from the yard until someone from Staff is around to supervise them.

Their has been one warning shot for three folk whom were on the yard for over 6 hours last bank holiday weekend, as they decided to lift their rubber mats and wash their floors, but other than that everyone has towed the line.

Edited to say, we are normally allowed to ride in a maximum of pairs around the yards land or individually only in the school, all bar farriers and vets have been stopped from coming to the yard.

 

[Frumpoon]

I think it's unacceptable to prevent liveries seeing their horses aside from in very rare circumstances where it really isn't possible to put any alternative measures in place. I would certainly have moved mine if my yard had taken that attitude (not that it was ever a risk here!).

I also think that the reactions of the BHS and other bodies has been pretty rubbish - facilitating yard owners in this sort of measure, and discouraging people from riding even where this is possible in terms of biosecurity. Given the equine obesity crisis, turning away and not working horses at this time of year is terrible advice. Obviously I'm not advocating putting equine welfare above human welfare - but there is a middle ground, where biosecurity measures can protect humans while maintaining suitable workloads and managements to protect horses.

This with bells on

 

[WandaMare]

But is the BHS a regulatory body?

Presumably it can only regulate riding establishments that are BHS registered? Outside of that I tend to see it as an organisation that campaigns on behalf of horse owners and equine businesses.

It doesn't have any authority over anyone though. Giving *advice* is fine (if it is science based and backed by government rules/advice) but they are not rule makers themselves.

No its probably not a regulatory body in the strictest sense, I agree, but its the closest thing and does carry some weight. It not always easy to get some customers to cooperate at the best of times and having some guidance is useful, and the more formal it sounds the better.

ETA I think stopping any liveries from visiting their horses at all was unnecessary. While yards could have taken on more of the care duties, I would have said weekly visits to check on horses welfare was essential. The last thing we need is more welfare cases.

 

[Frumpoon]

My old yard is haemorrhaging full liveries, the yard cannot survive with the DIY only revenue, and I have just had to threaten them with small claims to get my deposit back. All they keep saying is they cannot afford to refund my deposit this is just shy of £1800 - I had 3 on full livery, they are going to attempt to pay me half next week and half first week of June. They have asked if I want to move back..... erm No thank you.

Why did i leave - because we were banned from attending the yard when DIY liveries were still allowed to hack, bath and basically socialise whilst everyone on Full Livery was barred from the yard.

My new but old yard, I was here before but moved due to the travel time, has been very good about the whole issue, they understand that these are someones horses and have introduced slot times, we are not allowed to ride over the bank holiday weekend and have been told go to yard, get your jobs done and do your chatting on one of the apps, if you are seen taking liberties with either your time on the yard or riding or standing around in groups then that individual or group will be banned from the yard until someone from Staff is around to supervise them.

Their has been one warning shot for three folk whom were on the yard for over 6 hours last bank holiday weekend, as they decided to lift their rubber mats and wash their floors, but other than that everyone has towed the line.

Edited to say, we are normally allowed to ride in a maximum of pairs around the yards land or individually only in the school, all bar farriers and vets have been stopped from coming to the yard.

Good grief Ging, I thought my Livery bill was a lot!!!!!!

 

[Gingerwitch]

Good grief Ging, I thought my Livery bill was a lot!!!!!!

I know and the yard wondered why I was fed up at being banned from seeing mine, but because you are full livery it appears to be considered that you are not a real horse owner. Mine are on full livery so I can ride them and they have a routine, one call at work and I can be anywhere in the UK, so their needs come first.

I had cut down on number of horses as I did have 5 at one time.. went down to 3 but going back up to 4 in a few weeks time (long story).

So do not think I am up myself but I am a responsible person, I have to be for the job I do, I pay on time, in front usually by a month, I do not ask for favours, I expect a yard to be run as a business so if they want £5 to go and fetch a rug off from the middle of a field because its now 32 degrees then so be it, I will pay it and not moan. But in return for that I expect to be treated as a customer/client.

The upside of the move also means that my livery bill reduces but it increases my travel time, which is a bit of a pain.

 

[SO1]

I am going to see my pony today. It means a great deal to me to be able to see him even if only once or twice a week as I live on my own so the only contact I have at the moment with a living being is with him.

With some form of social distancing expected to remain in place indefinitely until there is a vaccine non BSH yards who are closed to liveries should be starting to think how they can run their business so it can adjust to the new normal & comply with social distancing. Riding is primarily an outdoor activity. It should be fairly easy for people to keep 2 meters away from each other on a yard especially smaller ones.

If workplaces are going to be asked to do rotas & stagger start times maybe Monday to Friday 9-5 will no longer be the norm. We will have to get used to different ways of working yards will need to adapt. Yards that can't will not be economically viable long term.

My YO has been very good allowing us a couple of visits a week & to ride. She has horses herself & said she thought about how she might feel if she couldn't see her horses for several months & based her decision on that. I am not on a BSH approved yard so she has can be more flexible perhaps. Also most people are sensible & it is not a very busy yard, before this there were weekends where I was the only livery up riding in the afternoon.

 

[Frumpoon]

I know and the yard wondered why I was fed up at being banned from seeing mine, but because you are full livery it appears to be considered that you are not a real horse owner. Mine are on full livery so I can ride them and they have a routine, one call at work and I can be anywhere in the UK, so their needs come first.

I had cut down on number of horses as I did have 5 at one time.. went down to 3 but going back up to 4 in a few weeks time (long story).

So do not think I am up myself but I am a responsible person, I have to be for the job I do, I pay on time, in front usually by a month, I do not ask for favours, I expect a yard to be run as a business so if they want £5 to go and fetch a rug off from the middle of a field because its now 32 degrees then so be it, I will pay it and not moan. But in return for that I expect to be treated as a customer/client.

The upside of the move also means that my livery bill reduces but it increases my travel time, which is a bit of a pain.

Did they honestly think that people would stay and carry on paying that sort of money to be told they couldn't come at their own convenience?

My old yard lost 6 full liveries with another 1 due to leave and 3 more have given notice

 

[Gingerwitch]

Did they honestly think that people would stay and carry on paying that sort of money to be told they couldn't come at their own convenience?

My old yard lost 6 full liveries with another 1 due to leave and 3 more have given notice

Hi Frumpoon, yes they did and could not see any reason as to why we would not be happy to just keep paying, if everyone on the yard had been banned it would have sat a little easier but the yard was a combination of 5 day, 7 day full livery and DIY. The DIY's were allowed to do anything including riding out in groups and bathing, but the 7 day liveries ie me where banned, until last bank holiday when they suddenly realised they needed us to do the normal bank holiday cover. The 5 day liveries were banned Monday to Friday but could do what they wanted on a Saturday and Sunday.
I tried to reason with them, but gave up, got in touch with my previous yard and they moved a couple of their own around so I could move.

I would have happily worked with them i.e. gone with a time slot etc.

 

[Smiffypig]

Our yard has honestly been brilliant in comparison to some others I’ve read about on here.

we have over 200 horses across a couple of yards on a single site.

we’re all still allowed to go up as normal - the only caveats have been dont hang around chatting, don’t use someone else’s tools, don’t hack off the property and don’t ride over the bank holidays (I don’t know why the bank holidays specifically but we can ride other time’s). They’ve also asked those still working to stick to their normal routine and outlined quiet hours for those of us who are furloughed to visit.

The yard staff are sanitising door handles, taps, gates etc regularly throughout the day.

if I hadn’t been able to see my horse since March 15th my mental health would have really suffered. I hope you get positive news after Sunday’s update but if not I’d be looking at moving yards for sure.

 

[Kat]

Loving the bit where the BHS say they will give advice once the new guidelines have been "clarified and understood"

What a shame they didn't make sure they fully understood the original rules before issuing advice.

They have been ridiculous over all this even going as far as to suggest people should post pictures of themselves riding on social media ?

 

[ester]

Given their previous I can't see why anyone would be paying much attention to them.

Also, I don't quite get why people would want the information from a different source to gov? All they are doing is putting their own interpretation on stuff which may be right or wrong.

Shearwater did a bit of an insurance back track yesterday too.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Given their previous I can't see why anyone would be paying much attention to them.

Also, I don't quite get why people would want the information from a different source to gov? All they are doing is putting their own interpretation on stuff which may be right or wrong.

Shearwater did a bit of an insurance back track yesterday too.

Hi Ester, what did Shearwater do ?

 

[JFTDWS]

They have been ridiculous over all this even going as far as to suggest people should post pictures of themselves riding on social media ?

Which, of course, might be one reason why I've posted more photos and videos on my public page than usual. Usually I keep rubbish videos / stills / day to day drivel off there but I object very strongly to this bizarre idea that nobody should post happy photos because there's some unpleasant stuff going on right now. News flash: there's awful stuff happening all the time. Just because the people dying from infectious diseases aren't in your neighbourhood doesn't mean they matter any less. Obeying government guidelines doesn't have to be miserable.

 

[Abi90]

Which, of course, might be one reason why I've posted more photos and videos on my public page than usual. Usually I keep rubbish videos / stills / day to day drivel off there but I object very strongly to this bizarre idea that nobody should post happy photos because there's some unpleasant stuff going on right now. News flash: there's awful stuff happening all the time. Just because the people dying from infectious diseases aren't in your neighbourhood doesn't mean they matter any less. Obeying government guidelines doesn't have to be miserable.

Quite, if no one was allowed to be happy or do things because other people are suffering or it’s not fair then no one would do anything ever.

Life isn’t fair. We all have our own joys and our own problems. This should have taught us to make the most of life not the opposite.