When you're done with horses but horse is unsellable?

[Gallop_Away]

All along I've asked my vet if Lari would be a suitable candidate for retirement livery pain free and more recently blood bank pain free and he has said all along that he would be. He's never expressed any concern. The only issues come from riding him.

For what it is worth birker I am sorry things with Lari have not worked out for. I know you are doing your best to do right by him. Please don't take some of the flippant comments on this thread to heart. Please look after yourself.

 

[NR88]

So I assume your walls are covered in certificates for horse behaviour and you are talking from experience of having studied horse behaviour. What exactly makes you the expert that you can tell me that keeping a horse in retirement is wrong. The same for GallopAway? How the heck do you know, are you physic or something. Do share.

"He's happy because he was excited when I moved the fence to fresh grazing on his strip grazed field. He wouldn't do that if he was in pain". It is you would needs to do a whole lot of learning about horses, every aspect, before getting another.

 

[Birker2020]

"He's happy because he was excited when I moved the fence to fresh grazing on his strip grazed field. He wouldn't do that if he was in pain". It is you would needs to do a whole lot of learning about horses, every aspect, before getting another.

So he only runs around when I'm moving his fence because he's happy because he's going to get fresh grazing??I've never heard anything so daft in all my life. He often runs around, this has been part of the problem! Hence the gouge marks and skid marks where him and his friends have been cantering around waiting to come in, in the morning, or when they first get turned out in the evening. There are often marks on the grass from the night before and I can assure you no one moves his fence in the middle of the night

He's often seen by staff (when I'm 8 miles away at work) rearing at the horse over the fence who rears at him too, he will roll, get up and explode with all four feet off the floor! He does that whether we are moving his fencing or not!

I'd say he's running around because he's pain free and feeling much better, because of the £6K I've spent trying to get him right and not because he's in pain.

Honestly your reasoning is seriously flawed. Crikey you must spend every second of your life watching your horse at liberty and trying to interpret all this twaddle that you spout.

Anyway I have no more time to waste feeding you anymore NR88.

 

[Goldenstar]

So I assume your walls are covered in certificates awarded to you for studies in horse behaviour and you are talking from experience of having studied horse behaviour. What exactly makes you the expert that you can tell me that keeping a horse in retirement is wrong. The same for GallopAway? How the heck do you know, are you physic or something. Do share.

You are entitled to your opinion but not at the expense of being rude and shoving it down our throats with your attitude which I find very offensive. And a complete lack of understanding how prey animals behave let alone specifically equine behaviour

For crying out loud, comments like this are just not necessary.

I have to say this is the pot calling the kettle black .
How do you think I and others felt when you said we put down horses we can’t be arsed to look after .

 

[ester]

Why do threads consistently end up centred around the same person, sigh.

 

[meleeka]

I make a point of sneaking up on Ludo to watch him when he doesn't realise I'm there. Today he jumped out of his skin when I said hello after watching him through his window.

By doing this last summer, I caught him head shaking to an extreme level in the paddock. He didn't ever do it when he knew I was there, he was distracted, pleased I hope, by my presence. I was able to work out that he was allergic to his feed and suffering from UV intolerance because of it.

It's not enough, I'm afraid, to know that your horse looks happy and well when you are there, it may only look that way because it's happy to see you.
.

(Ignoring the pointless bickering)

This is partly why I have CCTV. I can watch them at liberty any time I choose and it’s been invaluable, not just to monitor health. For example I can make sure they are all getting their fair share of hay, or know that the hay lasts until 5am when I’m not there until 8.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Some pretty horrid comments on this thread all round ? it really is a shame how nasty the equine community can be towards each other on times. We all love our horses and try to do our best for them. I don't think it's helpful or kind to throw out the comments I have read throughout this thread; to question people's morals, label them bad owners, claim you know better than qualified vets, or indeed imply someone has had their horse pts because they can not be bothered to seek an alternative.

Please remember that we have no idea what people have gone through or are currently going through in the respect of a decision to retire a horse or have it pts, and try to be a bit kinder towards one another?

 

[FestiveG]

People make the choices they do, for many reasons. Those choices are valid for them and their circumstances, in the context of wider issues. People will struggle to sell horses that are up to work, in the next few months and others will struggle to keep horses to an adequate standard. People are having to choose between heating their homes and feeding their families. They bought these horses in very different economic circumstances, with no expectation of the current mess.

 

[ycbm]

Amazing how you think your own horse is pain free with spurs on its hocks because your vet has told you he is, yet for the rest of us whose vets have told us exactly the same thing about our own horses you cannot accept it.

Not very fair.

My vet didn't tell me any such thing but she tried her damndest to make him take a lame step and couldn't and I trust my own eyes.

Your horse has had treatment in all four legs, back and SI, don't write me snide messages like this, Birker!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Why do threads consistently end up centred around the same person, sigh.

Because they perceive everything is personally aimed st them, each and every word.... then get furious and come out with unpleasant name calling and denigrating posts, if you dont pat them on the head?

I find life much easier to have that person on ignore ?

Guys, whatever or however you choose to manage or despatch your ailing or elderly, is your decision, most take this wisely and some seek educated help.
I think most of us here work to the same common factor x

 

[Birker2020]

Some pretty horrid comments on this thread all round ? it really is a shame how nasty the equine community can be towards each other on times. We all love our horses and try to do our best for them.
Please remember that we have no idea what people have gone through or are currently going through in the respect of a decision to retire a horse or have it pts, and try to be a bit kinder towards one another?

Agree with you.

 

[Cortez]

Agree with you.

Really? Since you are the Motherlode of many of them I am surprised.

 

[paddy555]

It's not enough, I'm afraid, to know that your horse looks happy and well when you are there, it may only look that way because it's happy to see you.
.

but we could also apply exactly that same statement to ridden horses. Take the hunting type horse. He may well be in pain but the adrenaline of his mates cantering past makes him look happy and "sound" and out of pain. When he gets home and standing overnight in his box it may be a different story,

We are quite happy to overlook quite a lot for our ridden horses. After all we want to ride them and it is easy to say they are well. We would rather not fork out £1k for another saddle so we say the current one fits, we want it to go to an event so we say it appears quite happy in the trailer when in fact it may be going through hell travelling but is too stoic to comment.

I think we have to accept that horses are in pain some of the time and for some probably a fair amount of the time but they get on with things and we ignore it because we want to ride.
If we are happy to ignore pain so we could ride then I cannot see any reason to make so much of PTS horses after we have stopped riding rather than retire them when "pain" is said to be the reason. In fact some of them may be in less pain as they no longer have a rider bouncing up and down and being forced to work on a deep surface at a pace they may not be comfortable with. In the field they can wander at their own pace.

The description I use for all of my retired animals is "quality of life" If it doesn't have this then that is the end.

 

[Fieldlife]

All along I've asked my vet if Lari would be a suitable candidate for retirement livery pain free and more recently blood bank pain free and he has said all along that he would be. He's never expressed any concern. The only issues come from riding him.

This seems perfectly plausible to me. Some horses dont stand up to work, but will look sound if not worked. He's not in work now, if he would trot up sound in hand tomorrow, he would probably be okay retired in a field.

 

[Dexter]

Why do threads consistently end up centred around the same person, sigh.

You cant even put them on block as then the threads don't make sense. There are two of them who stop me from coming on here and I'm sure if I'm saying it others are feeling it.

 

[Birker2020]

This seems perfectly plausible to me. Some horses dont stand up to work, but will look sound if not worked. He's not in work now, if he would trot up sound in hand tomorrow, he would probably be okay retired in a field.

Yes I'm sure he will.

It will be 2 weeks tomorrow since he had his SI and his hocks medicated again. The vet said he could be ridden at this point although this won't be something I will pursue. So I'll be interested to see what he's like on the lunge, I expect there will be a big improvement this time.

 

[Chianti]

I reiterate: field sound = not sound. It may mean that you don’t see the horse limping at walk, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. We may all have our own morals, but some people seem to have extremely underdeveloped ones, or else are very blinkered in what they choose to see.

I find this all very complicated. My last horse was retired for ten years - on livery - at quite a high cost. I was lucky, in that at the time, I had a good job and could afford it. She was also my best friend and it didn't occur to me not to give her a life in retirement. She was a funny mare in that she went lame even in very light work, with a light rider, but appeared to be ok when retired. I expect if we'd lunged her on concrete, she wouldn't have been, but we obviously didn't do that. The year after I retired her the vet came to do her MOT. We trotted her up and she was sound but I knew if I put her back in work she'd be lame in a few weeks. We gave her a bute a day - just in case. Perhaps she did have the odd 'ouch' moment - so do I. Do we then say that that wasn't a good life for her, and she should have been PTS? When I retired her I said that as long as she was happy she would carry on and as soon as she wasn't that would be it. Ironically it wasn't lameness that forced the decision to PTS but a completely unrelated condition.

I find threads like this one very interesting in that they clearly demonstrate the different attitudes that we all have towards our horses. I think it would be useful to do a survey on this. There are obviously people who don't have to ride their horses but are happy just to have a caring relationship with them. Others seem to need to ride and others to compete in order to make ownership work for them. I'd like to know what the figures are for the different groups.

 

[cauda equina]

And then no doubt there would be exceptions within those groups - for example, the owner who has horses specifically to hunt or compete, but then a particular horse gets under their skin and is kept as a pet for as long as is feasible

 

[marmalade76]

I find this all very complicated. My last horse was retired for ten years - on livery - at quite a high cost. I was lucky, in that at the time, I had a good job and could afford it. She was also my best friend and it didn't occur to me not to give her a life in retirement. She was a funny mare in that she went lame even in very light work, with a light rider, but appeared to be ok when retired. I expect if we'd lunged her on concrete, she wouldn't have been, but we obviously didn't do that. The year after I retired her the vet came to do her MOT. We trotted her up and she was sound but I knew if I put her back in work she'd be lame in a few weeks. We gave her a bute a day - just in case. Perhaps she did have the odd 'ouch' moment - so do I. Do we then say that that wasn't a good life for her, and she should have been PTS? When I retired her I said that as long as she was happy she would carry on and as soon as she wasn't that would be it. Ironically it wasn't lameness that forced the decision to PTS but a completely unrelated condition.

I find threads like this one very interesting in that they clearly demonstrate the different attitudes that we all have towards our horses. I think it would be useful to do a survey on this. There are obviously people who don't have to ride their horses but are happy just to have a caring relationship with them. Others seem to need to ride and others to compete in order to make ownership work for them. I'd like to know what the figures are for the different groups.

These things can change as you go through life too, for me, as a kid, any horse or pony would have done, as a young adult, I wouldn't have bothered keeping a horse if I couldn't hunt & compete (I could get plenty of hacking on other people's horses which would save me the expense of keeping my own). Once I became a mother, my horses/ponies became more pets, I have no ambitions anymore, I'm a fair weather rider now, my confidence has lessened over time and there are times when I think it wouldn't bother me if I didn't have a horse I could ride but I would very much miss not having at least one to look after.

 

[Chianti]

These things can change as you go through life too, for me, as a kid, any horse or pony would have done, as a young adult, I wouldn't have bothered keeping a horse if I couldn't hunt & compete (I could get plenty of hacking on other people's horses which would save me the expense of keeping my own). Once I became a mother, my horses/ponies became more pets, I have no ambitions anymore, I'm a fair weather rider now, my confidence has lessened over time and there are times when I think it wouldn't bother me if I didn't have a horse I could ride but I would very much miss not having at least one to look after.

Yes. I appreciate that it would only show a moment in time but I think it would be interesting.

 

[Cortez]

I find this all very complicated. My last horse was retired for ten years - on livery - at quite a high cost. I was lucky, in that at the time, I had a good job and could afford it. She was also my best friend and it didn't occur to me not to give her a life in retirement. She was a funny mare in that she went lame even in very light work, with a light rider, but appeared to be ok when retired. I expect if we'd lunged her on concrete, she wouldn't have been, but we obviously didn't do that. The year after I retired her the vet came to do her MOT. We trotted her up and she was sound but I knew if I put her back in work she'd be lame in a few weeks. We gave her a bute a day - just in case. Perhaps she did have the odd 'ouch' moment - so do I. Do we then say that that wasn't a good life for her, and she should have been PTS? When I retired her I said that as long as she was happy she would carry on and as soon as she wasn't that would be it. Ironically it wasn't lameness that forced the decision to PTS but a completely unrelated condition.

I find threads like this one very interesting in that they clearly demonstrate the different attitudes that we all have towards our horses. I think it would be useful to do a survey on this. There are obviously people who don't have to ride their horses but are happy just to have a caring relationship with them. Others seem to need to ride and others to compete in order to make ownership work for them. I'd like to know what the figures are for the different groups.

I have no problem with keeping horses in retirement when they can no longer be kept sound for work. I have given almost all of my horses at least a year or two of retirement. I do have a problem with the term "field sound", this is just a euphemism for NOT sound and designed to make owners feel better. I am under no illusions about it though, the horses are in some degree of discomfort - as am I these days, with the arrival of old age. The dilemma is in the varying degrees of acceptability to owners. I have a low bar; others have higher ones.

 

[Fieldlife]

I find threads like this one very interesting in that they clearly demonstrate the different attitudes that we all have towards our horses. I think it would be useful to do a survey on this. There are obviously people who don't have to ride their horses but are happy just to have a caring relationship with them. Others seem to need to ride and others to compete in order to make ownership work for them. I'd like to know what the figures are for the different groups.

I dont think there are fixed answers though, even for any one person.

And what you say you'd do might be totally different to what you would actually do when faced with a situation. The same person might make different choices at different stages of life.

My answers would be different for different horses, different situations, different facilities etc. Some horses will retire happily to a field based situation and love it, some wont. Some conditions are painful / some relatively pain free if not in work. Some horses have conditions meaning they cant retire straightforwardly e.g. weight issues / weakness issues etc. Some horses do deteriorate as soon as they are not in regular work. Some massively improve.

I like to think I would always do right by the horse in question.

People have different views on whether life in any form is worth saving or whether quality of life and absence of pain and suffering is more important. There isnt one answer.

 

[Fieldlife]

I have no problem with keeping horses in retirement when they can no longer be kept sound for work. I have given almost all of my horses at least a year or two of retirement. I do have a problem with the term "field sound", this is just a euphemism for NOT sound and designed to make owners feel better. I am under no illusions about it though, the horses are in some degree of discomfort - as am I these days, with the arrival of old age. The dilemma is in the varying degrees of acceptability to owners. I have a low bar; others have higher ones.

I think field sound is defined as different things by different people . . .

Some people - field sound = visibly clearly lame in trot at all times.
Other people field sound = fully sound if not ridden / worked.
Yet more people field sound = sound if not on a circle or hard ground or sound most of the time.

Think the definition varies and you are using the first definition, but not everyone else is using that definition.

 

[Cortez]

I think field sound is defined as different things by different people . . .

Some people - field sound = visibly clearly lame in trot at all times.
Other people field sound = fully sound if not ridden / worked.
Yet more people field sound = sound if not on a circle or hard ground or sound most of the time.

Think the definition varies and you are using the first definition, but not everyone else is using that definition.

I don't use the term at all.

 

[Fieldlife]

I don't use the term at all.

You have repeatedly used the term and criticised people for keeping "field sound" horses in retirement in this thread. I am pointing out that the term has a variety of meanings.

 

[Birker2020]

I have no problem with keeping horses in retirement when they can no longer be kept sound for work. I have given almost all of my horses at least a year or two of retirement. I do have a problem with the term "field sound", this is just a euphemism for NOT sound and designed to make owners feel better. I am under no illusions about it though, the horses are in some degree of discomfort - as am I these days, with the arrival of old age. The dilemma is in the varying degrees of acceptability to owners. I have a low bar; others have higher ones.

I have never thought the use of the word paddock sound or field sound as being euphemism for anything, its just a turn of phrase that people round by me use. If they are retired they are paddock sound, there is no ulterior motive, no hiding of anything, not used as a substitute for anything sinister, its just another word and shouldn't be misconstrued as something else.

Gosh I didn't realise we had to pick our words so carefully... this forum gets more bizarre by the minute.

 

[Flame_]

I reiterate: field sound = not sound. It may mean that you don’t see the horse limping at walk, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. We may all have our own morals, but some people seem to have extremely underdeveloped ones, or else are very blinkered in what they choose to see.

Barely anything or anyone is 100% pain free and in pristine condition at all times, this definitely does not mean better off dead. Lameness has a spectrum and being unable to perform athletically without aggravating injury or joint pain doesn't mean that a horse no longer expected to do that will still be in equal discomfort. Many horses unable to stay sound in ridden work (though, of course, by no means all horses) are able to stay level and content when that demand is removed.

 

[scats]

To be honest, my version of field sound is a horse who can no longer stand up to any work or who may go lame if someone tried to bring it back into work, but as for living a normal life out in the field/herd with no athletic expectations, it is fine and comfortable.

 

[greenbean10]

Barely anything or anyone is 100% pain free and in pristine condition at all times, this definitely does not mean better off dead. Lameness has a spectrum and being unable to perform athletically without aggravating injury or joint pain doesn't mean that a horse no longer expected to do that will still be in equal discomfort. Many horses unable to stay sound in ridden work (though, of course, by no means all horses) are able to stay level and content when that demand is removed.

I agree and am getting completely confused by the point some posters are trying to make.

Yes, a retired horse can be in pain and you may not be able to tell, so can ridden horses. Does that mean we should put all horses down on the off chance that they are in some degree of pain but no one has spotted it?

Is anyone else completely lost?

 

[Tiddlypom]

My 'field sound' horses are sounder than many horses out there competing, according to my vets.

They wouldn't stay sound if they were out there being worked or competing with the other broken horses, but they are certainly serviceably sound for retired or semi retired life. Each one's quality of life is evaluated on a daily basis.

The prime criteria for the pasture ornaments is that they are happy pasture ornaments. If I can no longer manage them to keep any of them happy, the call will be made, and earlier rather than later.