Why are there no good livery yards?

[Gingerwitch]

Not trying to hijack thread, but why do you have a horse if you would never go near it if you didn't have to???

Because you sometimes need to "have to" go if your juggling work, sick or injured family, your elderly confused mum, house work it's too easy to drop the one you think has been sorted when you run out of energy or time.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I can't imagine anything worse than insisting that yard managers are BHS trained...

Can you imagine them coming round to sniffily you that you’re putting on a rug the incorrect way? Or insisting you wear gloves to turn out your steady as a rock cob?

 

[JFTDWS]

Can you imagine them coming round to sniffily you that you’re putting on a rug the incorrect way? Or insisting you wear gloves to turn out your steady as a rock cob?

I don't think they'd appreciate my throwing rugs on loose horses in fields while wearing trainers, no gloves, no hat... TBH it's a good thing if I've not forgotten to put trousers on

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I don't think they'd appreciate my throwing rugs on loose horses in fields while wearing trainers, no gloves, no hat... TBH it's a good thing if I've not forgotten to put trousers on

What a visual! One summer when the horse stayed out, I’d trek along, flyspray, carrots and hoof pick in hand and deal with him loose. I always wore trousers, tho. I’m funny that way!

I’ve worn nothing but trainers since lockdown, I just have to skip out of his way when he shuffles round in his box.

 

[JFTDWS]

What a visual! One summer when the horse stayed out, I’d trek along, flyspray, carrots and hoof pick in hand and deal with him loose. I always wore trousers, tho. I’m funny that way!

I’ve worn nothing but trainers since lockdown, I just have to skip out of his way when he shuffles round in his box.

It's not a good visual, for sure. I swap between shorts for yard stuff and jeans for riding (mostly ). Sometimes I get distracted mid-swap and find myself in the field half naked. I have issues

No shoes, no drama with trainers here

 

[Cinnamontoast]

It's not a good visual, for sure. I swap between shorts for yard stuff and jeans for riding (mostly ). Sometimes I get distracted mid-swap and find myself in the field half naked. I have issues

No shoes, no drama with trainers here

No shoes?! I couldn’t do our rather stony lane with no shoes! The horse has boots on for it!

 

[JFTDWS]

No shoes?! I couldn’t do our rather stony lane with no shoes! The horse has boots on for it!

Well the horses have no shoes. I usually have trainers on, but ... well it wouldn't be the first time I'd lamed myself by standing on a flint barefoot in the field!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Well the horses have no shoes. I usually have trainers on, but ... well it wouldn't be the first time I'd lamed myself by standing on a flint barefoot in the field!

??

 

[TotalMadgeness]

I've had horses at 8 livery yards varying from large riding schools to private smallholdings. 6 were full livery, 1 was supposed to be full livery but turned out to be DIY when I got there, and 1 was full DIY.

On the full livery yards my main issues were with:
- Bad hay or bad haylage (basically the cheapest crap they could get)
- Not enough hay/haylage fed to the horses (even when I asked)
- Stingy on bedding (one place said my horse would get 2 bales of shavings a week turned out to be 1)
- Turnout issues - refusing to accommodate my horse so I had to leave

The first yard I ever went to simply starved my horses. I was totally gobsmacked & I tried to say something but was given a load of cobblers in return. I moved.
Another yard refused to turn my horse out because he couldn't get on in a herd he needed just one companion. I offered to buy and fit an electric fenced strip and they refused. I was really upset as I loved the yard, it had great facilities and was very close to home. But my horse was suffering being stuck in 24 hours a day so I had no choice but to move him to another yard miles away from home and they promptly gave him his own strip with a companion. This was a huge extremely busy yard but the care was impeccable and the YOs utterly amazing. Unfortunately I had to give up horses during a bad time in my personal life so sold the horse and left. Years later I went back to do a first aid course and the YOs recognised me straight away and were so pleased to see me.
Another yard bullied me off the yard because my new horse was deemed to be a problem horse. I had complained about his care so immediately I became a problem too!! Again gutted.
The next yard to that one was great though - just a small private yard but YO took care of my horse like it was her own. She bought the best hay she could get her hands on for a start! The horse blossomed and guess what, was no longer a problem horse. Sadly, though, I'd lost my confidence by then and eventually sold the horse and left.

I now have my own place.

 

[YorksG]

The usual answer given to us non-landowning plebs.

How rude! How you inferred that from my post I do not know. If you have two people who keep horses, they will have differing views on the subject.
Yards are over socked to pay the bills, because horse owners frequently do not want to pay the amount per horse that would sustain the yard.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

How rude! How you inferred that from my post I do not know. If you have two people who keep horses, they will have differing views on the subject.
Yards are over socked to pay the bills, because horse owners frequently do not want to pay the amount per horse that would sustain the yard.

You said:

“The only way to ensure you have exactly what you want is to buy your own I'm afraid.”

Which is the line trotted out by anyone who has their own place. Well not all of can afford that no matter what we do or how hard we work.

Most people are only asking for civility, honesty and value for money.

I don’t think I was rude just stating how many of us feel we are treated as.

 

[YorksG]

You said:

“The only way to ensure you have exactly what you want is to buy your own I'm afraid.”

Which is the line trotted out by anyone who has their own place. Well not all of can afford that no matter what we do or how hard we work.

Most people are only asking for civility, honesty and value for money.

I don’t think I was rude just stating how many of us feel we are treated as.

So suggesting that I was saying that all those who don't own land are plebs is not rude?
If you rent a furnished house and want a jacuzzi bath installed and your landlord says no, then you can't do it. If you buy your own house then you can install a jacuzzi.

 

[sarahann1]

The yard I’m on now is small, 100% DIY, cheap as a chips and very well maintained. Cheery YOs who leave us to sort our horses, good sized arena and great hacking. They don’t advertise, it’s word of mouth only and you basically only get on if you already know someone and they vouch for you. Makes for a very friendly/happy yard. I hate this culture of bashing DIY owners as being untidy or careless etc.

The previous yard was one of the more expensive in the area, good facilities, mostly good liveries and generally really quite well maintained. I only moved from it because I wanted better hacking and I needed to be on a yard where I could see my horse should we have another stricter Covid lockdown happen.

Good yards are very definitely out there.

 

[Ish2020]

How rude! How you inferred that from my post I do not know. If you have two people who keep horses, they will have differing views on the subject.
Yards are over socked to pay the bills, because horse owners frequently do not want to pay the amount per horse that would sustain the yard.

I not trying to start anything but it seems that you diging at me and others than stating your opinion . Not everyone has the lucky to be able to afford a house with a lot land.

 

[Mrs B]

I both keep my horse and work at the yard I am on and honestly it is perfect for me. Decent turnout paddocks and my mare has a corale attached to her stable so she can be out all the time. It's part-livery or full livery at request. When on full livery, my stable is always immaculately mucked out. Theres a 20 x 40 rubber & sand school and access to hours of hacking. I also work there so know the level of care the horses receive from all the people there. Yes of course mistakes do get made...we are all human...but they are rare and only happen once after being bought up. It is pricey though. My livery bill would be about £500 a month including hay, parking for my horsebox and incidentals. But happy to pay it as I know my Y/O makes nothing from it.

That really encapsulates much of it up though, doesn't it? The bit I highlighted, especially in red.

Running land and a yard is extremely expensive. And most livery prices haven't kept up - if they had, I suspect many people on here (me included) would not be able to keep a horse at all. I pay £25 a week for a great stable, my own paddock with shelter, 30x60 school with lights and jumps, fab hacking straight out of the yard into the forest and of course all the electricity, water, muck heap removal & wear-and-tear expenses included. That's £3.57 a day.

That's only possible because the owner lives on site and works her socks off for a fraction of bugger-all. But £25 is apparently the going rate around here, so that's the way it stays. When I was in Oxfordshire, I last paid £25 for DIY in about ... hmmm ... when was Foot & Mouth? 2001? But when the livery went up, it was only by £2.50 a week.

I was on a part livery arrangement for one year in 2014. Stable, field, mucking out, bedding and feed. It was £520/month, so around £17 a day. When you deducted the rent the YM was paying and the cost of everything she provided, she wasn't even working for anything approaching minimum wage either.

I've been very lucky in that since leaving home in 1985, all the YOs or YMs have been good and I've only moved because I had to due to property sold etc

But any way you look at it, these days unless you're charging/paying top whack, the sums just don't add up.

 

[YorksG]

I not trying to start anything but it seems that you diging at me and others than stating your opinion . Not everyone has the lucky to be able to afford a house with a lot land.

I was simply stating facts. The only way you can guarantee the quality of where you keep your horse, is if you own the place you keep it.
There is no value judgement in that

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Due to people looking for small yard livery, I have been asked a few times recently for space, as recently as yesterday.
From a few responses on this thread towards YOs, I think it's much easier for me to add a few hours at the coal face than add liveries. Thank you for the timely reminder

Edited to add, £30 per DIY or 2.2 hours in the office, no comparison really....

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I was simply stating facts. The only way you can guarantee the quality of where you keep your horse, is if you own the place you keep it.
There is no value judgement in that

Don’t you think it’s patronising though? As if we can’t understand that?

Feels like you’ve judged that we’re too stupid to realise that?

 

[blitznbobs]

It’s threads like this tbh that remind me never to have liveries. Harsh maybe but it’s easier to do a few hours more work and a lot less hassle.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I have been very fortunate & there are 3 or 4 yards within a few minutes of each other that are mainly DIY but are fantastic yards & very reasonable on price. I won't go into price as this varies so much depending the area of the UK you are in. The quality of a yard is down to the YO & the liveries. Our YO vets every applicant before allowing them to come onto the yard. Another thing is work ethic of the YO. Some yards the owner just wants to make money without doing any maintenance etc & that's a recipe for disaster. Our YO & her husband keep on top of maintenance & if I see something needs doing then I just do it, everyone helps everyone else. I mean it, we all get on, there is no bitchiness, or anything like that, It just doesn't happen. (Strange but true, honest). WE have numerous people phoning asking for stables, some want one, others 2 & sometimes more, we are normally up to quota & if a stable comes available it is filled rapidly, following vetting. I have been here for 4 years with several horses & I can't see me leaving, it's great.

 

[YorksG]

Don’t you think it’s patronising though? As if we can’t understand that?

Feels like you’ve judged that we’re too stupid to realise that?

So what is your answer to the problem, given that you cannot make YOs behave differently?

 

[sport horse]

Judging by the way people are interacting on this thread it is hardly surprising that the atmosphere in many yards is dexcirbed as 'bitchy'. Another one here who would not wish to have a livery in their yard. Why on earth would you work your self to a bone for a pittance and to get nothing but grief?
I am sure that many of us who have had liveries in the past could compile a list of complaints about the behaviour of thier liveries but frankly it is not worth it , we have all just walked away.

 

[scats]

I think in most cases, you have to make sacrifices. We suffer from a huge lack of yards with suitable turnout here. We are one of the most horse-populated parts of the UK and a relatively tiny area. There are a lot of yards around here that either have good riding facilities but a severe lack of grazing and little or no winter turnout... or pretty decent turnout but a lack of facilities.

I am very lucky to have landed on a brilliant yard with amazing turnout, own fields so no mixing with others and we manage it ourselves. Stables are a decent size and we have a manege and on site hacking. Compromises are that the on-road hacking would mean negotiating a hideously busy main road that has a lane coming off it so is just hell on Earth. Such a shame as we are 2 roads from the beach, but one of those roads is the hell road and it’s just not worth it in my opinion. We also have no option for services, but we do help each other out. There are only 5 of us on the yard, all friends. I currently have a barn of 6 stables to myself and the others are in the other barn. YO is a diamond, we love her to pieces. She’s not around much, but we all look after the place like it’s our own and she trusts us with it. I do miss more varied hacking, but my girls get turnout all year round and this is far more important to me. I have a wagon, so can box anywhere to hack I feel I want to.

Edited to add- YO doesn’t advertise the yard and it’s word of mouth and recommendations only. If someone enquiries, the YO asks us if we know them and what we think. She always says she would rather have a smaller yard with liveries she trusts who cause her no issues, than a full yard with the wrong people or a trouble maker in there upsetting the applecart.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

So what is your answer to the problem, given that you cannot make YOs behave differently?

There is no solution to crap yard owners except to move somewhere else and hope that they are better. Unless of course you buy your own place (as you said) but that is simply not an option for the majority, I’m sure they would as I would if they had the means. It’s not a revelation though is it? Sometimes people just want to share their pain and feelings of helplessness when they find themselves and their horse suffering because of the whims of some yard owners. I stress that I don’t think all YO’s are rubbish nor all liveries saints. I’ve met many a weird livery too. I hope I’m not one of them. I’ve been at my yard a decade so not done too badly.

 

[Polos Mum]

Maybe because there is no 'right' answer for all horses and all people - everyone wants what's 'right' for there horse but that's totally different for 100s of people.
If you land on a like minded yard - great, if you land on a different thinking yard it's hell
I don't think any (many) YO or liveries set out with the intention of doing the 'wrong' thing but the range or what is right is soooo wide in the horse world.

I was on one yard that spent the annual maintenance budget one year on some beautiful art for the walls of the barn (despite the 2 schools being un-rideable in due to lack of proper surface) - the owners thought they were doing the right thing

 

[sport horse]

As a comparison Dog Day care at a place near me is advertising on the internet - their charges are £35/day Monday to Friday and £50/day weekends and that is only for DAY care. Boarding is £45/day. That equates to £275/week for day care and £315/week for boarding. The great advantage for anyone choosing to go into this business as opposed to liveries is that they only see the owners when they drop off/pick up their dogs. Unlike liveries who are kicking about the yard for as long as they want, arguing with each other and moaning!!

If I need to make an income I guess I will go into doggie day care!!

 

[be positive]

I don't think they'd appreciate my throwing rugs on loose horses in fields while wearing trainers, no gloves, no hat... TBH it's a good thing if I've not forgotten to put trousers on

I was BHS trained, I am fairly H&S aware in many ways mainly trying to avoid accidents by being one step ahead, years of experience does not prevent accidents but does give you a head start, I rarely wear gloves to handle the horses, I do sometimes when lunging, a hat is for riding and walking one on box rest, if I remember to put it on, I do not own a BP as I stopped jumping xc some time ago so it was binned when it was out of standard, I regularly chuck rugs on a loose horse and my footwear in summer is definitely not suitable for wearing near horses I would definitely fail my exams now

I have a few safety rules for liveries when riding, hats obviously at all times, hi viz hacking but otherwise within reason they can do as they like, I know their tack is safe and that they have enough common sense to be relatively safe.

 

[DZ2]

There is certainly lack of good yards in my area, and I'm confident there is a market for full/part (don't know about DIY) livery yards with good facilities and turnout. There are owners out there who are happy to pay fair costs but can't find what they need. At my last yard arena deteriorated to be completely unridable in dry weather with several horses going lame, and owner (pro showjumper) was not willing to spend money on new surface. Liveries kept leaving and they wouldn't make a connection. Surely it's just logical to invest in vital facilities and attract new customers?

And I was struggling to find somewhere to move because I wanted both good menage (for competition horse) and lots of turnout. There are plenty of yards nearby (and I'm in the busy area just north of London) and while some have good turnout, good school is a lot more of a challenge, and to have both seemed impossible. Very luckily new place just opened up nearby which is absolutely perfect. It's a medium size yard, new owners are investing money to renovate the farm. They've just built excellent school, lunge paddock is half way done and lots of things I could live without (but are still nice to have) are on the way like arena mirrors/solarium etc. Turnout is excellent and it's not overstocked at all. They manage to pay several full time staff. They charge what the going rate is for full livery in the area, and place filled very fast. I'd happily pay more if I had to to be here, and other liveries too. But this place is such a rarity, around here at least. Owner aren't a charity and it it appears they make profit, demand is obviously there, so why can't others do it to?

 

[Cortez]

There is not enough money in the world that could induce me to run a public livery yard. I did run one for a year. Never, ever again.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

There is not enough money in the world that could induce me to run a public livery yard. I did run one for a year. Never, ever again.

Would you pop over and mind mine when I go on holiday?

Btw, no holiday yet planned ?