ester
Not slacking multitasking
Great, seems like you don’t need to trouble the experienced forum for any more advice for you to ignore then
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Why can’t I just do stuff with my horse? Is there a good calmer to help?
- Thread starter Kirstineridesagain
- Start date
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Nancykitt
Well-Known Member
An interesting thread, especially as I have zero experience of mares & foals. I suppose it was the sense of frustration/ urgency in the thread title that caught my eye.
As an newbie owner back in the day I wondered why I couldn't just 'do stuff' with my horse. People on the yard were going out for lessons, local shows, clinics etc.
The reason I couldn't do stuff with him was because he was a green and cheeky cob and I was a newbie. We had great support from honest people who told us that we needed to get basics sorted out before we did anything other than gentle hacks. I was initially frustrated but prepared to wait because my instructor knew more than me.
My daughter was at an age where she wanted to do stuff and we were lucky enough to acquire a 'been there. done that, ready for anything' Connie who was happy to go to the local show a week after he arrived with us and proceeded to give us 13 excellent years of doing stuff - dressage, SJ, showing, hunting, fun rides, XC.
In time, our cob became a horse we could do stuff with. But it took years - and some blood, sweat and tears. He is now coming up to retirement and has taught us so much.
When it comes to horse ownership, I had to learn to manage my expectations. Now we have Ozzy and I doubt that we'll ever be able to do a lot of 'stuff' with him. But that's OK because all we want is a nice hacking cob - however, I'm prepared that this might take a very long time. And a lot of learning (for us and him!) in the process.
Sometimes the answer is simply time. And patience, of course. No calmer could ever be a substitute.
(On another note, I remember once spending a lot of money on entry fees only for our wagon to develop a last-minute fault. Lost the money (and had to pay for the wagon to be sorted out).
I bet this has happened to a lot of us!)
As an newbie owner back in the day I wondered why I couldn't just 'do stuff' with my horse. People on the yard were going out for lessons, local shows, clinics etc.
The reason I couldn't do stuff with him was because he was a green and cheeky cob and I was a newbie. We had great support from honest people who told us that we needed to get basics sorted out before we did anything other than gentle hacks. I was initially frustrated but prepared to wait because my instructor knew more than me.
My daughter was at an age where she wanted to do stuff and we were lucky enough to acquire a 'been there. done that, ready for anything' Connie who was happy to go to the local show a week after he arrived with us and proceeded to give us 13 excellent years of doing stuff - dressage, SJ, showing, hunting, fun rides, XC.
In time, our cob became a horse we could do stuff with. But it took years - and some blood, sweat and tears. He is now coming up to retirement and has taught us so much.
When it comes to horse ownership, I had to learn to manage my expectations. Now we have Ozzy and I doubt that we'll ever be able to do a lot of 'stuff' with him. But that's OK because all we want is a nice hacking cob - however, I'm prepared that this might take a very long time. And a lot of learning (for us and him!) in the process.
Sometimes the answer is simply time. And patience, of course. No calmer could ever be a substitute.
(On another note, I remember once spending a lot of money on entry fees only for our wagon to develop a last-minute fault. Lost the money (and had to pay for the wagon to be sorted out).
I bet this has happened to a lot of us!)
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
My mum knows someone who paid the entry fee to a show, hired a lorry, and even bought a new velvet plaited browband then drove to the show with the horse still in the stable ..... Feeding ten pound notes into a wood burner would be cheaper than horse ownership
SEL
Well-Known Member
I was jumping yesterday - low key because we are training to not explode in warm ups - and they'd had loads of cancellations. The secretary said it all seems to be riders and lorries that have broken rather than horses for once!
I have lost 3 x entry fees for the lorry misbehaving over the past few years.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
very accurate comment.
Dopeydapple
Well-Known Member
Many years ago I hired a box to take my ex racer to a show ( it was our 3rd outing since buying her the previous year), she had been working great at home, good at previous outings, loading well into YOs box, loaded great on the day, all set for a lovely day out, she came down the ramp like a fire breathing dragon, tried to get her focussed and calmed down but she wasn't having any of it, put her back in the box after 10 mins and went home again. No idea what was wrong with her that day, never acted like it again but it wasn't worth fighting and stressing her out more.
nutjob
Well-Known Member
Some of the comments are from people with actual knowledge and experience of breeding and bringing on youngsters. The delivery may be a bit abrupt but they clearly offer some input in terms of personal experience and advice. Totally fair comments however they are received.Great, seems like you don’t need to trouble the experienced forum for any more advice for you to ignore then
However, many of the posts on this thread contain no useful information at all and are just varying levels of abuse targetting the OP. I rather suspect some of the people involved in these type of posts have no experience of breeding and limited experience in travelling / competing / training with young or novice horses. Certainly what they have typed into this thread is not in any practical way helpful at all.
I rather fear that since Birker left these members may be missing their whipping boy / girl.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think most of us were just 
as to the reasoning of the plan, I know I certainly was, for the most part I think advice given on here is well thought out and considered based on the individuals circumstances. It's currently being perfectly demonstrated by the kind and helpful responses a prolific historical troll is getting on a variety of posts. Personally I'm pro a peaceful vibe.
as to the reasoning of the plan, I know I certainly was, for the most part I think advice given on here is well thought out and considered based on the individuals circumstances. It's currently being perfectly demonstrated by the kind and helpful responses a prolific historical troll is getting on a variety of posts. Personally I'm pro a peaceful vibe.KikiDee
Well-Known Member
I have refrained from commenting on the foal situation tbh as I have no experience of weaning my own youngstock, and the limited experience I do have was on showing yards where it is done pretty brutally. I can't comment on how settled/unsettled the mare was/might have been/should have been.
I only wanted to offer the perspective of don't feel disheartened that others 'appear' to be having an easy time as behind the scenes it's often a very different picture!
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
I haven't bred myself and never intend to: I'm far too neurotic! But I got Diva when she had just had her baby weaned - on first viewing, they were still together; on taking her home, they'd been separated - and she was a completely different horse. It took a long time for her to switch out of 'mum mode' back to just being the Diva I'd viewed and fallen in love with. But it was all very new to me too and I was too busy worrying about whether I had checked her teats properly for mastitis for going anywhere (except round the field to remember our manners in hand even if we were anxious), to ever even cross my mind. Everything was about her being chill with this new situation life had thrown her way. Like OP I was novicey (I still am), I didn't have facilities and my instructor was my mum and the horse.
Things were slow though. Frustratingly at the time but in hindsight I'm glad I didn't rush things - especially knowing what I know now about how much she has going on medically - though hopefully for both OP and her horse, this isn't something that will become an issue for them.
Things were slow though. Frustratingly at the time but in hindsight I'm glad I didn't rush things - especially knowing what I know now about how much she has going on medically - though hopefully for both OP and her horse, this isn't something that will become an issue for them.
Attachments
nutjob
Well-Known Member
It may be that not everyone is aware of the alter ego(s) of that one. I wouldn't have noticed their reappearance but for the comment of another member.
Not aimed at you at all. It's good to get different perspectives.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Oh I'm sure most aren't aware, that's why it kind of demos that the forum tends to take people at their face value/take as it finds
Nancykitt
Well-Known Member
The first post did paint quite a negative picture of a stressed/anxious horse and some people gave what looked like very good advice based on extensive experience.
I agree that some of the posts were a little sharp, but it was obvious to me that the general consensus was to wait and not go to the clinic as there was obviously a risk that it could have made things worse for the mare.
However, the mare did go to the clinic and it seems that on this occasion the risk paid off. Perhaps some posters felt a little cross that the collective advice wasn’t considered- and that the fee for the clinic seemed to be a factor. So I think most of the abrasive comments came after the post about the clinic.
People come on here and ask for advice. I do it myself. If I asked for advice about Ozzy (as I do) and pretty much every response was ‘don’t do x’, I can understand why people would feel a bit miffed if I did it anyway.
I think everyone is genuinely trying to do their best - but I so think there was an element of naivety in saying ‘why can’t I just do stuf etc when the horse in question has a recently weaned foal.
(And I have to say that I’ve learnt a lot from reading the posts!)
I agree that some of the posts were a little sharp, but it was obvious to me that the general consensus was to wait and not go to the clinic as there was obviously a risk that it could have made things worse for the mare.
However, the mare did go to the clinic and it seems that on this occasion the risk paid off. Perhaps some posters felt a little cross that the collective advice wasn’t considered- and that the fee for the clinic seemed to be a factor. So I think most of the abrasive comments came after the post about the clinic.
People come on here and ask for advice. I do it myself. If I asked for advice about Ozzy (as I do) and pretty much every response was ‘don’t do x’, I can understand why people would feel a bit miffed if I did it anyway.
I think everyone is genuinely trying to do their best - but I so think there was an element of naivety in saying ‘why can’t I just do stuf etc when the horse in question has a recently weaned foal.
(And I have to say that I’ve learnt a lot from reading the posts!)
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
I think you are actually being rather unfair, although I partially agree with your first statement, the second one is both unnecessary and not true in my opinion.
I think that majority of us have actually enjoyed the forum more since the dramatic debacle that surrounded every post by the former member who you mention is no longer an issue on the forum. I think bringing that remark onto this thread is not pertinent and only serves to turn this into something more problematic than it actually is or needs to be.
You could have made your point without that comment if you truly wish to avoid the forum and this thread in particular gong down that former tedious and unpleasant route.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The older/more experience I get the more I realise that although I have always 'just done stuff' there were times when in hindsight it would have been better not to and I think a bit more carefully about it now.
There was time Frank went to the vets for a work up and on spotting a tractor on the horizon went full on dolally welsh, vet asked if he always did that and I was like good god no we'd never go anywhere if he was
. That was a few years down the line, the hindsight is that for the first year of having him I should have done a lot fewer outings rather than just cracking on.
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
People (non specific) do love a righteous pile on, I don't think thats controversial to say. Human nature I think. Also probably human nature to see someone take an objectively big risk against all advice and be a bit miffed that they didn't get stung 
I'm the person taking progress at a glacial pace as I'd rather never "do" anything than overface my precious, anxious little sweetheart so seeing someone be "unprepared" by my insane standards and "get away with it" is so common it doesn't make me feel anything anymore
I'm the person taking progress at a glacial pace as I'd rather never "do" anything than overface my precious, anxious little sweetheart so seeing someone be "unprepared" by my insane standards and "get away with it" is so common it doesn't make me feel anything anymore
Nancykitt
Well-Known Member
Also probably human nature to see someone take an objectively big risk against all advice and be a bit miffed that they didn't get stung
You could be right - but I’m sure that at least some of us were relieved that things went well, no-one got hurt and the mare was OK - even if advice was disregarded. I honestly don’t want anyone to get stung!
However, the mare went from being described as a fire-breathing dragon and spinning/whinnying/ stressed out to ‘easy to handle and well-mannered.’ So I’m not entirely sure why advice was sought?
I think that some people, over the years, have asked for advice hoping it was what they wanted to hear only to do their own thing when the consensus wasn’t what they expected. Not sure if this is the case with this particular post, but it’s definitely happened in the past.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
my pony mare has had several foals and I have been involved in 3. I didn't comment as all are different and it can be a fast moving situation. In the first one the foal was taken way (about 3 miles) and the mare put back in her field. I went to see her the following day and fire breathing dragon would have been a total understatement. She was crazy beyond belief and I was going to get it, she hated me (I had previously been the love of her life) for what I had done to her and the foal. (this was not my decision) I visited her daily.. Within a couple of days she had totally calmed down and got on with life and we were back to the love in.
The next foal I led her out of the gate with the foal alongside (5mo) the foal ran off and the mare said good riddance, let it go and I hope it never comes back. I had to take them back into the field as I couldn't have a 5mo foal running around loose. She was finally separated the following morning and never for one minute looked back. I led her out of her herd and away from the foal without a backward glance. We got home and I doubt she gave the foal a 2nd thought. The third foal I had intended to leave on for her to wean but had to remove the foal at around 7 months as she was not up to it. Both were on my place and we had a bit of screaming for a couple of days but they lived side by side separated by a fence and she was fine,, certainly not distressed.
3 very different reactions from the same experienced mare and behaviour changes within a very short time.
Sometimes we can go too quickly, sometimes too slowly. If I had been Kristine I may well have taken the mare out of the field on the Sat to see how she behaved. If she freaked leaving the herd then put her back and if she left and loaded well carried on to give her something to think about. There is no right or wrong.
I find that sometimes you have to press on so you have a big confident horse who trusts you to push the boundaries and make the decisions. It is too easy sometimes for the anxious little sweetheart to assume their precious position when they could and would be happy doing more.
Exasperated
Well-Known Member
Ha, ha! Never, you do surprise me, shurely shome mishtake?
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I very much doubt that you would have considered giving the mare a calmer, even if you had known of one yourself, without asking strangers on a forum, in order to get her on the lorry on Saturday morning though.
I am very glad that the excursion went well but still have no clue why it was arranged.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I think most of us were just
Now wondering who and what threads...
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I could understand forcing the issue more if it was for an important vet work up or emergency vet visit
A clinic or competition are absolutely NOT important, nor essential
A clinic or competition are absolutely NOT important, nor essential
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I have never given a horse a calmer in my life and I don't ask strangers on a forum for horse behaviour advice. You only have to look on this thread for what happens when you do that. I look at the situation myself on the ground as I (or my vet perhaps if they are involved) are the only ones with first hand knowledge of the situation. If you ask on a forum you get what is perhaps well meaning advice from people some of whom may never have come across the situation and don't know the animal concerned anyway. Then when you reject the advice the nastiness as on here starts.
Mrs Jingle
Well-Known Member
Well I can't speak for others but personally any criticism I made was based purely on the OP's very frivolous and revealing statement that if it hadn't been for the loss of money she would have cancelled!
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Well quite!
KikiDee
Well-Known Member
To be fair I think that statement has been a bit misconstrued. I took it as “if I hadn’t already paid I’d probably have made my excuses and wimped out of going but I’m glad I did as it all worked out and gave me the confidence to do more”. I appreciate given the thread history it could equally be read as “I didn’t give a damn how my horse was feeling as I’d already paid and I wasn’t going to lose my money”, but I don’t think that was OP’s sentiment.
There’s lots of times when I say “if I hadn’t already entered/committed to taking a friend/plaited up etc. I wouldn’t bother going” purely because I don’t really want to do something.
There’s lots of times when I say “if I hadn’t already entered/committed to taking a friend/plaited up etc. I wouldn’t bother going” purely because I don’t really want to do something.
HaplessHorse
Well-Known Member
I kept my response fairly neutral, with some (hopefully) helpful pointers, as I do see why she thought this was workable. Not my personal choice, but her horse isn’t being actively neglected/abused, so it’s entirely up to her in the end.
I do get that this forum can be a bit prickly when it comes to advice for less active people. Soon after I joined, I asked for weight management advice for my ponies, and even though I made it very clear that I was taking on board the advice that I felt would be most appropriate to my horses, I still had a lot of angry/frustrated replies and a bit of a pile-on. But the advice that I took worked, and I’ve got healthy and mostly happy ponies (one is grumpy at the min, she’s in season, I think we can all relate).
However, that thread did seriously make me question my ability as an owner (I had already been feeling crap at that point), and it did make me question whether I should a) quit horses, and b) quit this forum. Wasn’t a nice feeling, at all, but I am grateful to those who offered genuine, helpful guidance.
I’ve also found that when people are on a defensive footing, they’re less likely to take advice, in general.
I do get that this forum can be a bit prickly when it comes to advice for less active people. Soon after I joined, I asked for weight management advice for my ponies, and even though I made it very clear that I was taking on board the advice that I felt would be most appropriate to my horses, I still had a lot of angry/frustrated replies and a bit of a pile-on. But the advice that I took worked, and I’ve got healthy and mostly happy ponies (one is grumpy at the min, she’s in season, I think we can all relate
). However, that thread did seriously make me question my ability as an owner (I had already been feeling crap at that point), and it did make me question whether I should a) quit horses, and b) quit this forum. Wasn’t a nice feeling, at all, but I am grateful to those who offered genuine, helpful guidance.
I’ve also found that when people are on a defensive footing, they’re less likely to take advice, in general.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
OP did say they had to go as they had rented a box and it was a lot of money, before they went.
KikiDee
Well-Known Member
I must be alone in thinking that’s not completely unreasonable
“at least give it a go” to me means see if mare will leave the field and load reasonably calmly and there’s a chance of going. I wouldn’t jump to assuming it means “must go at all costs”. I’m assuming given OP’s concerns that started this thread, that she wasn’t prepared to try and take a hysterical horse to the clinic hence the initial vent/dilemma.I’m not debating whether the horse should have gone in the first place or not, without seeing a horse with my own eyes I’ve got no idea if it was coping or not. But I think the ‘I’d already paid’ statement is being zoned in on a bit unfairly.
MuddyMonster
Well-Known Member
I always think it helps to think of HHO is essentially like a giant livery yard. There will be people who want to give advice regardless of how little they know or the fact they haven't had any lessons other than the 5 they had back in 1956 and their stable management knowledge began and ended about the same time too, there are people that might have lots of theory but little practical experience, someone that loudly proclaims thry have 30 years experience - but it's 30 years with the same horse doing very little, those that just repeat the same advice they were given without understanding the reasoning behind it, those that like to pretend they are giving advice but just want to talk about themselves, some that believe turmeric and sage will fix 99% of problems and their psychic friend can fix the other 1% and some that geniunely have gems of advice to give.
And honestly? Probably all of it is useful in the right circumstances.
Sometimes the anonymous aspect helps, sometimes it hinders.
But, as much as they are entitled to give their advice, the other is just as entitled to ignore it completely or pick or choose what you want. If they don't like it, that's for them to work on why (and more often than not, they hsve their own 'stuff' to work on). Please don't let other's ruin your enjoyment of your horses.Most of us are just.trying to do our best with what we have available to us at the time.