Disillusioned
New User
For info, I am a long time forum user under a different name but needed to be anonymous for this.
So, I am a very experienced livery yard manager and for several years, I have been renting and running a yard. I provide full and part livery full includes turning out, bringing in, mucking out, bedding, feed and hay (good quality, ad lib); part is the same but without mucking out and bedding. (The terms of my lease dont allow me to offer DIY.) The horses are turned out every day of the year, I have a decent 20x60 school, good hacking and the yard is well located for local venues.
There have been many threads which have culminated in this post, particularly the recent one regarding costs of extras and what people consider a reasonable charge/service. Ive got a few points to make, so please bear with me!
Firstly, the cost of livery in general. My prices are quite reasonable for my area of the country, and I provide a high standard of care. However, when I put the prices up by £30 per month last year (previous rise was 3 years prior), there were mutterings from some of my owners. (The rise was due to costs of hay and feed rising over time and increases in my yard rent and insurance amongst other things, so quite justifiable.)
As all yard owners/managers know, we cannot charge what would actually be a realistic price for livery because only a minority would then be able to afford it! I tried to think of something to put it into context against and the best I could come up with was renting a room in a house. Round here, you cant get a room for less than £450 per month. If you think of DIY livery as your horse lodging on someone elses property, how many people could afford that as a starting point?
And then the cost of extras for DIYs/what is actually included in the service for part/full livery....
There have been comments about how long it should take to pick out feet and that it is an unskilled job. When I pick a horses feet out, Im not just removing mud and stones. As I run my hand down the horses leg to pick the foot up, Im automatically checking for any heat/cuts/swelling, etc. Im also checking the shoes all there/twisted/loose/risen clenches? Any sign of heat in the hoof/bruising/thrush? If unshod, any cracks? All in the few minutes the job takes me. Surely this is worth the £1.50 some people begrudge paying?
Rug changes not just a case of drag one off and chuck another on. Again, Im checking - is the rug damaged/rubbing/leaking? Is the horse too hot/cold? Making sure Im putting the appropriate rug on for that horse. As well as giving the horse a general condition check.
Turning out/bringing in. Im giving the horse a general once over here too. Is it stiff/lame/any cuts or knocks? Filled legs? Eaten breakfast/last nights hay? Drunk usual amount? And obviously, if there are any injuries, I will treat them accordingly and notify the owner.
If the horse is young/green/ill-mannered, then I am by default also training it to be polite and easy to deal with for no extra cost.
I know all my horses beds regardless of whether I muck them out or not. So I can tell if the bed is too neat/messy/dirty/clean for that horse. I know all my horses characters and quirks and what is normal appearance and behaviour for each one. Therefore I will notice quickly if something isnt right and deal with it appropriately.
Taking into account the above, and the time spent on indirect labour such as poo-picking, general field/yard/arena maintenance, admin, etc, a basic daily labour charge of £10 per horse on my yard wouldnt seem unreasonable. But that would be £300 per horse per month before any other costs. And would then need a bit more added onto the full liveries for my mucking them out.
Ah yes, the other costs. There are the obvious ones such as hay, feed, etc. But also things such as the yard rent, insurance, rates, maintaining/replacing yard equipment and fencing, maintaining first aid kits, fire extinguisher checks, National Insurance, etc. Some years I pay tax, others my earnings havent gone above the tax-free allowance. And if a box is empty, then my income drops by a few hundred a month, but there is actually minimal difference in the outgoings.
If you add the £300 labour charge to, say, a £400 lodging (to use my previous comparison) charge to cover all other costs, that would put my part livery at £700 per month. A lot more than what it is at present and considerably more than my current full livery price! But if I was able to charge this sort of money then I would actually be able to earn a reasonable living.
And there is the issue. I now cannot long-term earn a reasonable living unless peoples ideas of what livery should realistically cost move forward. I never expected to make a fortune and I know this sort of work is a lifestyle choice. But please bear in mind that without people like me making this choice or property owners choosing to provide equine facilities, whether a basic field or all the bells and whistles, people would not be able to make the lifestyle choice to own a horse. I do genuinely love my job, and I know I am good at it my happy relaxed horses and owners are proof but unfortunately appreciation and job satisfaction dont pay the bills. I have 25+ years experience, qualifications, have over the years managed yards of 30+ horses and teams of staff. In many other industries, Id be on pretty good money. But not in horses.
Unfortunately I can no longer afford, or want, to subsidise other peoples horses.
The reason for the new user name and for not going into more detail about me and my yard is so hopefully no-one will recognise me.
This is because, on 1st August, I will be handing a letter to the owners of my yard giving the required period of notice to terminate my lease. And depending on what the owners then decide to do with the yard, I may have to give notice to my liveries, and I wouldnt want anyone to find out from here before I tell them myself.
So, I am a very experienced livery yard manager and for several years, I have been renting and running a yard. I provide full and part livery full includes turning out, bringing in, mucking out, bedding, feed and hay (good quality, ad lib); part is the same but without mucking out and bedding. (The terms of my lease dont allow me to offer DIY.) The horses are turned out every day of the year, I have a decent 20x60 school, good hacking and the yard is well located for local venues.
There have been many threads which have culminated in this post, particularly the recent one regarding costs of extras and what people consider a reasonable charge/service. Ive got a few points to make, so please bear with me!
Firstly, the cost of livery in general. My prices are quite reasonable for my area of the country, and I provide a high standard of care. However, when I put the prices up by £30 per month last year (previous rise was 3 years prior), there were mutterings from some of my owners. (The rise was due to costs of hay and feed rising over time and increases in my yard rent and insurance amongst other things, so quite justifiable.)
As all yard owners/managers know, we cannot charge what would actually be a realistic price for livery because only a minority would then be able to afford it! I tried to think of something to put it into context against and the best I could come up with was renting a room in a house. Round here, you cant get a room for less than £450 per month. If you think of DIY livery as your horse lodging on someone elses property, how many people could afford that as a starting point?
And then the cost of extras for DIYs/what is actually included in the service for part/full livery....
There have been comments about how long it should take to pick out feet and that it is an unskilled job. When I pick a horses feet out, Im not just removing mud and stones. As I run my hand down the horses leg to pick the foot up, Im automatically checking for any heat/cuts/swelling, etc. Im also checking the shoes all there/twisted/loose/risen clenches? Any sign of heat in the hoof/bruising/thrush? If unshod, any cracks? All in the few minutes the job takes me. Surely this is worth the £1.50 some people begrudge paying?
Rug changes not just a case of drag one off and chuck another on. Again, Im checking - is the rug damaged/rubbing/leaking? Is the horse too hot/cold? Making sure Im putting the appropriate rug on for that horse. As well as giving the horse a general condition check.
Turning out/bringing in. Im giving the horse a general once over here too. Is it stiff/lame/any cuts or knocks? Filled legs? Eaten breakfast/last nights hay? Drunk usual amount? And obviously, if there are any injuries, I will treat them accordingly and notify the owner.
If the horse is young/green/ill-mannered, then I am by default also training it to be polite and easy to deal with for no extra cost.
I know all my horses beds regardless of whether I muck them out or not. So I can tell if the bed is too neat/messy/dirty/clean for that horse. I know all my horses characters and quirks and what is normal appearance and behaviour for each one. Therefore I will notice quickly if something isnt right and deal with it appropriately.
Taking into account the above, and the time spent on indirect labour such as poo-picking, general field/yard/arena maintenance, admin, etc, a basic daily labour charge of £10 per horse on my yard wouldnt seem unreasonable. But that would be £300 per horse per month before any other costs. And would then need a bit more added onto the full liveries for my mucking them out.
Ah yes, the other costs. There are the obvious ones such as hay, feed, etc. But also things such as the yard rent, insurance, rates, maintaining/replacing yard equipment and fencing, maintaining first aid kits, fire extinguisher checks, National Insurance, etc. Some years I pay tax, others my earnings havent gone above the tax-free allowance. And if a box is empty, then my income drops by a few hundred a month, but there is actually minimal difference in the outgoings.
If you add the £300 labour charge to, say, a £400 lodging (to use my previous comparison) charge to cover all other costs, that would put my part livery at £700 per month. A lot more than what it is at present and considerably more than my current full livery price! But if I was able to charge this sort of money then I would actually be able to earn a reasonable living.
And there is the issue. I now cannot long-term earn a reasonable living unless peoples ideas of what livery should realistically cost move forward. I never expected to make a fortune and I know this sort of work is a lifestyle choice. But please bear in mind that without people like me making this choice or property owners choosing to provide equine facilities, whether a basic field or all the bells and whistles, people would not be able to make the lifestyle choice to own a horse. I do genuinely love my job, and I know I am good at it my happy relaxed horses and owners are proof but unfortunately appreciation and job satisfaction dont pay the bills. I have 25+ years experience, qualifications, have over the years managed yards of 30+ horses and teams of staff. In many other industries, Id be on pretty good money. But not in horses.
Unfortunately I can no longer afford, or want, to subsidise other peoples horses.
The reason for the new user name and for not going into more detail about me and my yard is so hopefully no-one will recognise me.
This is because, on 1st August, I will be handing a letter to the owners of my yard giving the required period of notice to terminate my lease. And depending on what the owners then decide to do with the yard, I may have to give notice to my liveries, and I wouldnt want anyone to find out from here before I tell them myself.