Why is winter turnout not a thing!?

[millikins]

I have seen a big difference in how my land copes after ponies went barefoot. I have light, free draining soil and grass cover is far better with unshod hooves. Fields currently look awful but that's because it didn't rain in Spring but the winter ruts were rolled easily.
I hope you find a yard that suits you PSD

 

[PSD]

I fully agree with the whole costing money and land becoming very sparse.

I really wouldn’t mind paying extra for the right set up, horses welfare is paramount to me and if I couldn’t provide the right living conditions I’d sell her. The only reason I “coped” last winter (my first winter there) was because my other horse had laminitis and was in complete box rest. It was tough having her in 24/7 even with her being very poorly so I couldn’t imagine it with a youngster that will be climbing the walls.

place I’m viewing tomorrow is lovely, I had a drive up earlier and it’s very local. Lane is smooth (massive bonus!) it’s up on a hill so I’m assuming the land drains well as their winter fields stand up well apart from around the gate which is understandable really. I can cope with that.

they also have a young herd that is apart from the older ones, they split the herds into appropriate groups, so older ones, younger, ones who need less grass and those that need more. It seems absolutely perfect in all honesty, I really hope when I have a good look around it pleases me just as much

 

[Bambelina]

Mine can be out 24/7....the yard is around 90 acres with about 25 horses on it.....you can choose to rotate your field or not, and can choose wether to have them in or not, it’s DIY too.
I have always wondered why people have so many horses on yards where there isn’t enough turnout for it to be year round, daily, and for
Long periods of time. I’ve heard the excuse “business rates mean that yard owners need more horses to be able to run” but then I think just don’t run a yard if you have to compromise on horse welfare to make it work!
I understand some limitations such as in at night, but I just don’t see how turnout for an hour a few days a week can benefit any horse?

 

[Baywonder]

It al depends on the land available I suppose. My old boy was on DIY - out day and night in the summer, and stabled at night in the winter. It would all depend on the weather and how the fields were coping. Some years they would need to be in at the end of September, but other times it has been mid-December. Thankfully, we were never restricted to how long we were able to turn them out for each day, even in the depths of winter.

 

[Mule]

The beast is a menace. He digs massive trenches in the field so he can have a mud bath (naturally he's grey) I nearly fell in to one yesterday. His winter trenches are a million times worse.

 

[chocolategirl]

I worked on a yard as a groom with no winter turnout. All I can say is I didn't stay long because it felt more like a jailer's job.
The poor animals were kept inside their cells all day except for the odd social hour in the indoor school or when their owners turned up to ride them. Horrible practice, horrible place.
There were many mental health problems among the horses and three of them were regular escape artists. Good for them.
I'd think hard about the ethics of keeping a horse if it had no ability to express natural behaviour. It makes me so sad.

This is my take on it too? if more people thought of their horses stables as prisons, I think maybe their attitudes might be different., but possibly not. I think it’s a case of out of sight, out of mind. Horses just withdraw into themselves and switch off. Just because your horse appears to accept their solitary confinement, doesn’t mean it actually does. It’s a massive welfare issue imo ?

 

[Michen]

This is my take on it too? if more people thought of their horses stables as prisons, I think maybe their attitudes might be different., but possibly not. I think it’s a case of out of sight, out of mind. Horses just withdraw into themselves and switch off. Just because your horse appears to accept their solitary confinement, doesn’t mean it actually does. It’s a massive welfare issue imo ?

It doesn’t have to be like that though. Mine was box rested with walking for four nearly five months. He was happy as Larry and he’s as buzzy and hot as they come- going into the box hunting fit.

He was exercised both ends of day, hand grazed, groomed and fussed. He remained cheerful and himself throughout.

The issues arise when stabled horses don’t get sufficient exercise or interaction IMO.

 

[scats]

At my old yard, although it had a winter field that we alternated mares and geldings, it would be absolutely trashed within 6 weeks and it was frankly dangerous with horses at the gateway and thick deep mud that sucked your wellies off.
However, the yard had 5 decent sized rubber turnout paddocks that you were free to use as much as you wanted. It made winter doable. Hard work but doable. You could get the horses out for an hour or two play and leg stretch in the morning and again later on, plus ride, so you could have them out of the box for 5 hours a day.

As much as many horses appear to accept being in boxes for 23 hours a day and out for just an hour while ridden, I do think they suffer from the lack of social interaction with others and the chance to just have a leg stretch and a play. I bought a pony once from someone who didn’t use to turn him out in winter, or indeed ride him, he just used to tie up on the yard while she mucked out and then go back in the box. The day I bought him (it was winter), I turned him out in the rubber paddock with my other horse and he ran around in absolute joy, bucking and squealing. The poor thing had missed that interaction with others and the freedom to have a bit of a leap about.

It would, I imagine, be deemed unacceptable to crate a dog for 23 hours a day and just take him out for his daily walk and then put him back in his crate, so it does baffle me somewhat that it seems acceptable to put horses in a very similar situation for 4-6 months of the year.

 

[PSD]

At my old yard, although it had a winter field that we alternated mares and geldings, it would be absolutely trashed within 6 weeks and it was frankly dangerous with horses at the gateway and thick deep mud that sucked your wellies off.
However, the yard had 5 decent sized rubber turnout paddocks that you were free to use as much as you wanted. It made winter doable. Hard work but doable. You could get the horses out for an hour or two play and leg stretch in the morning and again later on, plus ride, so you could have them out of the box for 5 hours a day.

As much as many horses appear to accept being in boxes for 23 hours a day and out for just an hour while ridden, I do think they suffer from the lack of social interaction with others and the chance to just have a leg stretch and a play. I bought a pony once from someone who didn’t use to turn him out in winter, or indeed ride him, he just used to tie up on the yard while she mucked out and then go back in the box. The day I bought him (it was winter), I turned him out in the rubber paddock with my other horse and he ran around in absolute joy, bucking and squealing. The poor thing had missed that interaction with others and the freedom to have a bit of a leap about.

It would, I imagine, be deemed unacceptable to crate a dog for 23 hours a day and just take him out for his daily walk and then put him back in his crate, so it does baffle me somewhat that it seems acceptable to put horses in a very similar situation for 4-6 months of the year.

When you put it that way (about the dog in a crate) it actually does make you realise how awful it is to have them in all winter and only ridden once a day.

I’m having a look at a place today, my only major concern at the moment is the fact we have to do roadwork to get to the bridle paths - which isn’t really a concern at all when I factor everything else in. If I chose to move, I’d have to get her bombproof in traffic in hand before she’s backed regardless so what better way to do it haha!

Friend of mine is a long standing livery there, said her only “issues” are the fact there’s a LOT of grass (she has a podgy pony!) and the fact it isn’t direct access to off road hacking. Not really massive issues in my eyes

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I have attached a few photos of my field taken yesterday. The one of a single hoof print is from the far side of our 14 acre field, the whole field is pretty well covered like this but the grass conceals it. The other pictures are of a paddock that was only grazed for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. Most of it looks lovely as the grass has regrown but under the grass it is still as rough as the pictures. It is a nightmare to walk over and I wouldn't risk a horse on it. We had no chance to get on the land with a roller before it was too hard to do any good.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I have attached a few photos of my field taken yesterday. The one of a single hoof print is from the far side of our 14 acre field, the whole field is pretty well covered like this but the grass conceals it. The other pictures are of a paddock that was only grazed for a few weeks in Jan/Feb. Most of it looks lovely as the grass has regrown but under the grass it is still as rough as the pictures. It is a nightmare to walk over and I wouldn't risk a horse on it. We had no chance to get on the land with a roller before it was too hard to do any good.

I think I just rolled my ankle looking at those pictures!


Reminds me of when one of the large dirt paddocks gets like that in the winter (so it is not always in use). Then the divots and holes fill with ice, because of course it rains and then freezing temps come. So it is a recipe for a broken leg (horse or human)! One livery who never really cared if her horse was out all winter, suddenly decided to turn him out in that paddock, without asking, the day it turned into a total danger zone. People are so clueless!

 

[Tiddlypom]

This is my take on it too? if more people thought of their horses stables as prisons, I think maybe their attitudes might be different., but possibly not. I think it’s a case of out of sight, out of mind. Horses just withdraw into themselves and switch off. Just because your horse appears to accept their solitary confinement, doesn’t mean it actually does. It’s a massive welfare issue imo ?

I genuinely do not get this argument that stables are prisons. My horses love their stables. They mostly live out with field shelters, but they regard it as a treat to be able to come in whether for a few hours or overnight. They don’t stress if they have to box rest, either.

ETA It was a godsend on the night the canada goose brought down the power line in my top field. The horses were out, it was dark, the explosion of the lines coming down had freaked them out and we had no idea where was safe out in the field .

I grabbed them all in and they immediately settled, even when Scottish Power turned up and strangers were shouting to each other and vehicles were driving across our land with headlights on. They stayed in all night.

 

[Frumpoon]

I genuinely do not get this argument that stables are prisons. My horses love their stables. They mostly live out with field shelters, but they regard it as a treat to be able to come in whether for a few hours or overnight. They don’t stress if they have to box rest, either.

ETA It was a godsend on the night the canada goose brought down the power line in my top field. The horses were out, it was dark, the explosion of the lines coming down had freaked them out and we had no idea where was safe out in the field .

I grabbed them all in and they immediately settled, even when Scottish Power turned up and strangers were shouting to each other and vehicles were driving across our land with headlights on. They stayed in all night.

If they aren't in there all the time then of course aren't prisons you silly woman, you are just deliberately obfuscating

 

[PSD]

Had a look at second yard.

stable is quite a bit smaller but it would be big enough for now until she grows. It’s inside a barn, of which no horses were in which I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not, she wouldn’t have any company or be able to see much if/when I brought her in - but to be honest it wouldn’t be very often that she’d be in more than half an hour anyway. In winter they come in before dark, which can be 3pm some days here. Again, not really a massive problem but if she’s in a smaller stable from 3pm until I arrive the next morning just after 9, it’s a long time.

everything else was spot on. So I’m not sure if I’m just being picky now!

 

[Tiddlypom]

If they aren't in there all the time then of course aren't prisons you silly woman, you are just deliberately obfuscating

Not at all. There are plenty enough folk, some on here, who have convinced themselves that stables are prisons , however little time the horse spends in there.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Again, not really a massive problem but if she’s in a smaller stable from 3pm until I arrive the next morning just after 9, it’s a long time.

Not really ideal for a youngster. Would she be in the barn on her own when in overnight in winter, or would she have other horses about then?

 

[PSD]

Not really ideal for a youngster. Would she be in the barn on her own when in overnight in winter, or would she have other horses about then?

no the barn would be full in winter. It’s just because it’s summer that they’re all out, stable is 10x13 and she’s approx 12.3 (haven’t measured her)

 

[Errin Paddywack]

If everything else is what you want the size of the stable wouldn't worry me. If you have to compromise on other things that is different.

 

[chaps89]

That's alot better than where you are but still a long time in for a youngster in winter. Can you not do a tea time trip to the yard to turn her out in the school for an hour or so (depending on whether t/o in the school is allowed and how busy it might be) or hand graze her, or get down earlier in the mornings?
I think I'd send her away for this winter at least.
It sounds like a better set up for as and when you decide to back her though. Could you maybe pay a retainer on it until spring next year if you plan to back her then?
Fwiw, I have a 14.1hh in a 10 x 15 stable and it's massive for her, a 10 x 13 for something a couple of hands smaller would be ok for me I think.

 

[TheMule]

Had a look at second yard.

stable is quite a bit smaller but it would be big enough for now until she grows. It’s inside a barn, of which no horses were in which I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not, she wouldn’t have any company or be able to see much if/when I brought her in - but to be honest it wouldn’t be very often that she’d be in more than half an hour anyway. In winter they come in before dark, which can be 3pm some days here. Again, not really a massive problem but if she’s in a smaller stable from 3pm until I arrive the next morning just after 9, it’s a long time.

everything else was spot on. So I’m not sure if I’m just being picky now!

That is 18 hours everyday in a small box. For a 2year old.

 

[PSD]

That's alot better than where you are but still a long time in for a youngster in winter. Can you not do a tea time trip to the yard to turn her out in the school for an hour or so (depending on whether t/o in the school is allowed and how busy it might be) or hand graze her, or get down earlier in the mornings?
I think I'd send her away for this winter at least.
It sounds like a better set up for as and when you decide to back her though. Could you maybe pay a retainer on it until spring next year if you plan to back her then?
Fwiw, I have a 14.1hh in a 10 x 15 stable and it's massive for her, a 10 x 13 for something a couple of hands smaller would be ok for me I think.

It’s not an actual rule they have to be in before dark, the yo just said that’s usually when people bring in. She can have a run in the outdoor if needs be later on, or I can take her for a walk. It’s better than where I am currently anyway as you say.

I won’t be turning her away for winter though, it’s not an option I want to use as I will be showing over the winter (hopefully if covid allows)

stable is long and narrow, so 10ft wife 13ft long

 

[PSD]

That is 18 hours everyday in a small box. For a 2year old.

it’s either that or stay where I am.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Sounds much better than where you are and 10 x 13 is a reasonable size especially for a pony. Since it isn't mandatory to come in by 3 and there are other options too has to be an improvement on current yard.

 

[Sail_away]

Are there any yards further away that would have better turnout? I get not wanting to send her away and that you’d like to show her but what about a yard say an hour away? That you could get up to once or twice a week, so still doable for shows and you’d get your weekly pony time.

 

[PSD]

Are there any yards further away that would have better turnout? I get not wanting to send her away and that you’d like to show her but what about a yard say an hour away? That you could get up to once or twice a week, so still doable for shows and you’d get your weekly pony time.

an hour away is too far for me to travel and having her on full livery isn’t an option financially. I’m not even sure why I’m being so fussy, usually I would jump at the chance to go somewhere that I looked at this morning!

 

[dorsetladette]

It’s not an actual rule they have to be in before dark, the yo just said that’s usually when people bring in. She can have a run in the outdoor if needs be later on, or I can take her for a walk. It’s better than where I am currently anyway as you say.

I won’t be turning her away for winter though, it’s not an option I want to use as I will be showing over the winter (hopefully if covid allows)

stable is long and narrow, so 10ft wife 13ft long

That stable would be fine for the size pony you have. Is there an option to move to something bigger if/when someone else moves off? Would the youngstock herd be coming in at that time also?
If your wanting to show I'm assuming you'll be wanting to do some practise/prep of an evening anyway so pony wont be stood in completely from 3pm til 9am.
Is another option to ask if pony can to turned out in a morning for you as say 7am or earlier depending when people are about.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

That set up wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I usually come around 5 or so to work the horse anyway. So come in, short stay in the stable, work/interaction/grooming/whatever, back in the stable with hay until the morning.

 

[PSD]

That stable would be fine for the size pony you have. Is there an option to move to something bigger if/when someone else moves off? Would the youngstock herd be coming in at that time also?
If your wanting to show I'm assuming you'll be wanting to do some practise/prep of an evening anyway so pony wont be stood in completely from 3pm til 9am.
Is another option to ask if pony can to turned out in a morning for you as say 7am or earlier depending when people are about.

There are livery services so having her turned out first thing could be an option! Which would make it better for both of us. Thanks, I hadn’t thought of that!

there would be the option to move to a bigger stable should one come up and she grew out of hers yes

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Sounds like that yard would be a good match for you then.

 

[dorsetladette]

Sounds like that yard would be a good match for you then.

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When you moving?