Why is winter turnout not a thing!?

[maggiestar]

Not at all. There are plenty enough folk, some on here, who have convinced themselves that stables are prisons , however little time the horse spends in there.

Stables can be places of rest and comfort for horses as long as they're also getting time to socialise, play, graze, roll, run, and please themselves.
I've seen how depressed and 'shut down' horses can become when their every movement is restricted and controlled.
I think an earlier poster suggested all weather turnout and maybe that's a solution for the future. It's obviously not easy, we do have a lot of rain in the UK and 99% of owners want to do the best for their horses, but I'm just speaking from my experience at this particular yard.

 

[sport horse]

Can one of the people who describe stables as 'prisons' please tell me the difference betweeen that and the sole tunrout paddocks that are so popular - ie electric fenced square of grass with no shade, no interaction with others and often no grass either?

 

[dorsetladette]

Can one of the people who describe stables as 'prisons' please tell me the difference betweeen that and the sole tunrout paddocks that are so popular - ie electric fenced square of grass with no shade, no interaction with others and often no grass either?

Combine the 2 and you have a concentration camp!

 

[chocolategirl]

I genuinely do not get this argument that stables are prisons. My horses love their stables. They mostly live out with field shelters, but they regard it as a treat to be able to come in whether for a few hours or overnight. They don’t stress if they have to box rest, either.

ETA It was a godsend on the night the canada goose brought down the power line in my top field. The horses were out, it was dark, the explosion of the lines coming down had freaked them out and we had no idea where was safe out in the field .

I grabbed them all in and they immediately settled, even when Scottish Power turned up and strangers were shouting to each other and vehicles were driving across our land with headlights on. They stayed in all night.

For some horses they are because they simply just don’t leave them for days or weeks on end ?

 

[chocolategirl]

Can one of the people who describe stables as 'prisons' please tell me the difference betweeen that and the sole tunrout paddocks that are so popular - ie electric fenced square of grass with no shade, no interaction with others and often no grass either?

I am one of those that describe some horses stables as prisons, and I think some owners need to imagine their own existence as being confined to a square room of possibly no more than 12x12, or in some cases, even smaller! and ask yourself would you be happy living like this day to day? Trapped, unable to get out when you want to, staring at the same view 24/7, maybe if you’re really lucky, getting out of your cell for an hour in 24. And you’re not the size of a horse ? horses are herd animals that need to interact with others and to forage for their food, they are not meant to be cooped up for long periods to suit their owners ?

 

[Cortez]

If fields were probably managed horses would not be standing in knee high mud. There is plenty of countries that have worse winter than the uk and winter stabling is not the norm .

Really? Where would that be then?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Okay so one of the potential yards has been ruled out - yard owner was lovely but it just wasn’t my kind of place. (The smaller yard with alternative daily winter turnout).

I have one more that has a vacancy, cheaper than where I am and daily winter turnout in herd with youngsters. I’m hoping this one has a good feel to it when I go for a look, it’s local too - 12 minute drive away! All bedding and forage on sight made by the farm so that’s handy too. Livery services available too! Seems to be very suitable.

I certainly wouldn't have a youngster in on alternate days. There is a yard near us that used to do that, they had 6 stables but only allowed 3 horses out each day in winter, they appear to have built a house there now.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I guess technically Iceland? They keep horses in herds/basically feral on fields. Or at least it appeared that way.

 

[Cortez]

I guess technically Iceland? They keep horses in herds/basically feral on fields. Or at least it appeared that way.

Are you replying to my question? If so Iceland hardly compares to the UK or Ireland. Horses there are often overwintered out in vast open, frozen tundras: not exactly like the UK's terrain, is it. And a lot of Icelandic horses spend the winter enclosed in barns and rarely get out at all.

 

[TheMule]

There are plenty of ways of keeping horses from needing to stand in mud for hours other than shutting them in a small stable for 18+ hours per day. It really doesn’t need to be an either/or choice

Group barns
Stables with pens attached
Surfaced turn out areas
Areas of hard standing to feed forage on within fields

These things require financial investment and perhaps that's where some people are restricted. Or we are so used to horses being kept in stables for so long that we have accepted it as normal and don't therefore consider the serious welfare implications, justifying it to ourselves (my horse seems happy, better than standing in mud etc)

 

[atropa]

OP I think the yard you went to see sounds like a vast improvement on where you are now, especially if you could pay to have turned out earlier or do something mid evening with her.
You're probably not jumping at the chance due to some of the replies on this post confusing your view - turnout is a highly emotive subject for most horse owners so replies can get very heated.
I personally would not keep any horse on a yard without some form of daily winter turnout, I would and have travelled up to an hour 15 each way previously on DIY for my mares to have daily turnout. I certainly would do my best not to keep a 2yo that way, even if it meant sending the horse away.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Are you replying to my question? If so Iceland hardly compares to the UK or Ireland. Horses there are often overwintered out in vast open, frozen tundras: not exactly like the UK's terrain, is it. And a lot of Icelandic horses spend the winter enclosed in barns and rarely get out at all.

It's a country that has worse winters than the UK and stabling is not the norm. So...that's why I said it. I never said it was like the UK. Not sure where you got that. Maybe I was just in a certain part in the winter, but mostly the horses were out as opposed to stabled. ??‍ Clearly you know better.

 

[Cortez]

It's a country that has worse winters than the UK and stabling is not the norm. So...that's why I said it. I never said it was like the UK. Not sure where you got that. Maybe I was just in a certain part in the winter, but mostly the horses were out as opposed to stabled. ??‍ Clearly you know better.

I've spent some time in Iceland with horses, yes. In the winter. Where I was staying the horses stayed in, all winter. Some farms have the horses out, and sometimes they die in the big snowstorms. If the weather here was like that in Iceland then certainly more horses could stay out in fields as the ground freezes and they would not be standing knee deep in mud. Since the weather here is not like that in Iceland the systems that pertain there are not relevant.

The reason that horses are kept in here are mostly to do with the state of the ground and the increasingly wet winters.

 

[splashgirl45]

It’s not an actual rule they have to be in before dark, the yo just said that’s usually when people bring in. She can have a run in the outdoor if needs be later on, or I can take her for a walk. It’s better than where I am currently anyway as you say.

I won’t be turning her away for winter though, it’s not an option I want to use as I will be showing over the winter (hopefully if covid allows)

stable is long and narrow, so 10ft wife 13ft long

just to reassure you about the size of the sable , my mare was a chunky warmblood cross,15.2 and she was fine in a stable which was 9ft 3 wide and 13ft long..she was not impressed at being disturbed..

 

[Buster2020]

Really? Where would that be then?

New Zealand , Canada etc . the uk doesn’t even have a bad winter compared to we don’t get crazy rain .

 

[Goldenstar]

New Zealand , Canada etc . the uk doesn’t even have a bad winter compared to we don’t get crazy rain .

Heres a question for you much would you pay for a 3.75 acre field with two stables on skids if it was available to rent .
No water no electricity nothing can be left parked there ( like a trailer ) .

 

[scats]

I genuinely do not get this argument that stables are prisons. My horses love their stables. They mostly live out with field shelters, but they regard it as a treat to be able to come in whether for a few hours or overnight. They don’t stress if they have to box rest, either.

ETA It was a godsend on the night the canada goose brought down the power line in my top field. The horses were out, it was dark, the explosion of the lines coming down had freaked them out and we had no idea where was safe out in the field .

I grabbed them all in and they immediately settled, even when Scottish Power turned up and strangers were shouting to each other and vehicles were driving across our land with headlights on. They stayed in all night.

Your horses have freedom though, and obviously associate stables with nice things such as coming in out of the rain or heat to have some hay and a snooze. All their needs are being met- food, shelter, safety, company... My horses equally enjoy their stable time, but they love their turnout time too.
To horses with no turnout, the stable becomes their whole existence. I’m not sure I’d go as far as calling it a prison, but for horses locked in 23 hours a day, I can see why people might compare it that.

 

[PSD]

just to reassure you about the size of the sable , my mare was a chunky warmblood cross,15.2 and she was fine in a stable which was 9ft 3 wide and 13ft long..she was not impressed at being disturbed..View attachment 53359

Ahh she looks comfy! I think the stable I viewed must have been a lot smaller than 10x13 as it really doesn’t look as wide as yours!

I decided against the yard. The stable just wasn’t big enough to make me feel comfortable, despite everything else being great. Yo will let me know if any bigger ones come up, she’s out 24/7 until November so I’m not in any rush to find anywhere

 

[Tiddlypom]

10x13 is plenty big enough for a pony. Ah, I see that you think it is smaller than that?

 

[ycbm]

I am one of those that describe some horses stables as prisons, and I think some owners need to imagine their own existence as being confined to a square room of possibly no more than 12x12, or in some cases, even smaller! and ask yourself would you be happy living like this day to day? Trapped, unable to get out when you want to, staring at the same view 24/7, maybe if you’re really lucky, getting out of your cell for an hour in 24. And you’re not the size of a horse ? horses are herd animals that need to interact with others and to forage for their food, they are not meant to be cooped up for long periods to suit their owners ?

I've never seen a horse read a book or play chess. I don't think the comparison of how a human feels about confinement compared to a horse holds much water.
.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I don't think horses conceptualise confinement in the same way we do. They just have needs that need to be met and the best way to satisfy their needs is for them to get turnout with companionship. If that's not possible then creativity is needed. And it's likely that some of their needs will be a little to a lot under-fulfilled.

It's like walking dogs. They don't NEED a walk but a walk is a very good way to satisfy their needs. If walks aren't possible you figure out how to satisfy the needs in other ways.

I think it's very difficult to keep a stabled horse entirely happy and healthy but it is possible with work.

 

[PSD]

10x13 is plenty big enough for a pony. Ah, I see that you think it is smaller than that?

it seems it when I look at the post further up of a bigger horse in a similar sized stable!

not to worry, I’m sure there will be something out there. There may even be a bigger one come up on the same yard yet!

 

[chocolategirl]

I've never seen a horse read a book or play chess. I don't think the comparison of how a human feels about confinement compared to a horse holds much water.
.

That’s your opinion to which you are of course perfectly entitled, but it’s about the autonomy to do those things, to me anyway. Locking a horse away in a small space is taking away its freedom. Everyone who does this, and is comfortable doing so, will always try and justify it, and tell themselves and everyone else, their horses are happy, I just happen to think the opposite is true. I would hate to be in that position, which is why I refuse to put my horses in it ?‍

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am one of those that describe some horses stables as prisons, and I think some owners need to imagine their own existence as being confined to a square room of possibly no more than 12x12, or in some cases, even smaller! and ask yourself would you be happy living like this day to day? Trapped, unable to get out when you want to, staring at the same view 24/7, maybe if you’re really lucky, getting out of your cell for an hour in 24. And you’re not the size of a horse ? horses are herd animals that need to interact with others and to forage for their food, they are not meant to be cooped up for long periods to suit their owners ?

Give or take a few hours, you have just described what most of the population have to do. Work - to earn a living from age 16 to 67. Most of us will work for a minimum of 40 years. I spend 5 days a week in a office 8 x 8, why do I do it ? - to pay for my passion of keeping horses.

So many owners have whimsical ideas of their horses roaming acres of land 12 months of the year with loads of friends. The reality is most horses kept like that will be vastly overweight. It is quite incredible how little grazing most horses actually need to remain vaguely slim and healthy. Most leisure horses are not in any form of meaningful work so the combination of acreage and no work is a recipe for disaster and heartbreak.

Why do we see horses in small electric fenced paddocks with little grazing - to keep many of them alive is the answer. All of mine would die if there were to be kept in the 'let them roam free and have fun' culture.

 

[ycbm]

That’s your opinion to which you are of course perfectly entitled, but it’s about the autonomy to do those things, to me anyway. Locking a horse away in a small space is taking away its freedom. Everyone who does this, and is comfortable doing so, will always try and justify it, and tell themselves and everyone else, their horses are happy, I just happen to think the opposite is true. I would hate to be in that position, which is why I refuse to put my horses in it ?‍

Just to be clear, I don't stable my horses. I'm not trying to justify anything I personally do. But I can't agree that you can compare how a human feels about being locked up with how a horse feels about it. Or with how much autonomy a horse has in the wild, come to that.
.

 

[chocolategirl]

Give or take a few hours, you have just described what most of the population have to do. Work - to earn a living from age 16 to 67. Most of us will work for a minimum of 40 years. I spend 5 days a week in a office 8 x 8, why do I do it ? - to pay for my passion of keeping horses.

So many owners have whimsical ideas of their horses roaming acres of land 12 months of the year with loads of friends. The reality is most horses kept like that will be vastly overweight. It is quite incredible how little grazing most horses actually need to remain vaguely slim and healthy. Most leisure horses are not in any form of meaningful work so the combination of acreage and no work is a recipe for disaster and heartbreak.

Why do we see horses in small electric fenced paddocks with little grazing - to keep many of them alive is the answer. All of mine would die if there were to be kept in the 'let them roam free and have fun' culture.

Exercise equals weight loss so I’ve actually found the opposite to be true. It’s the ones who are stationary for long periods in my experience that are the overweight ones, just like in humans. I’ve been running a yard for 24 years, and it’s always been the owners who don’t turn their horse out much, don’t exercise them, but feed them 2-3 feeds a day, plus ad-lib hay that are the problem ? our horses have at least 10 hours out daily in winter and 24/7 if desired, in summer. It’s a system that’s worked brilliantly for us, although we do have to spend a considerable sum of money on land management, my choice though?‍

 

[MagicMelon]

Im surprised so many livery yards are allowed to get away with it, surely no winter turnout suggests they have far too many horses on the land.

Im so lucky that I keep mine at home so mine are out 24/7. I dont have much land (2 horses on about 1.5 acres) but I have a open stables and a large hardcored area out the front with a bale ring feeder on - really saves the ground as they spend most of their time round it and out of the mud. I dont know why more places dont hardcore areas of their fields for exactly this. Personally I couldnt keep a horse on minimal turnout, I feel its so important. Could you consider renting a field?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Do you all in the UK have any kind of laws on how many horses per acre? I remember in a state I lived in over in the US there was a law of x horses per acre. I'm not sure how or if it was enforced though.

 

[splashgirl45]

Ahh she looks comfy! I think the stable I viewed must have been a lot smaller than 10x13 as it really doesn’t look as wide as yours!

I decided against the yard. The stable just wasn’t big enough to make me feel comfortable, despite everything else being great. Yo will let me know if any bigger ones come up, she’s out 24/7 until November so I’m not in any rush to find anywhere

when i viewed the yard this was the only stable available for me, as everything else was great, lots of grazing no restrictions on turnout,only condition was in at night in the winter, which i would do anyway, ok hacking and small yard with only 3 of us. plenty of storage for hay etc and locked tack room close to YO's house. i moved her and she was fine in the stable, i was quite shocked when i measured it as we had come from yards with 12 x 12 boxes. have you actully measured the stable? i believe yours is only about 13 hands so doesnt need a huge box especially as she will be out 24/7 in summer and in at night in the winter. as you are so happy with everything else i think you are mad to rule it out. i am really pleased i didnt rule my one out (which i was close to doing) as i had over 8 happy years there and only moved because it was sold for development..

 

[PSD]

when i viewed the yard this was the only stable available for me, as everything else was great, lots of grazing no restrictions on turnout,only condition was in at night in the winter, which i would do anyway, ok hacking and small yard with only 3 of us. plenty of storage for hay etc and locked tack room close to YO's house. i moved her and she was fine in the stable, i was quite shocked when i measured it as we had come from yards with 12 x 12 boxes. have you actully measured the stable? i believe yours is only about 13 hands so doesnt need a huge box especially as she will be out 24/7 in summer and in at night in the winter. as you are so happy with everything else i think you are mad to rule it out. i am really pleased i didnt rule my one out (which i was close to doing) as i had over 8 happy years there and only moved because it was sold for development..

No haven’t measured it, but decided against it for now. I’ve asked her to let me know if anything bigger becomes available as everything else was fantastic, daily winter turnout too which is a bonus