Woman killed, seven dogs seized

twiggy2 said:
Not sure you can rule out any of the dogs on size, they may not have killed her but could easily kill or seriously injure a small child or baby.
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If that’s the case why waste time trying to work out which dogs were guilty, just PTS them all and save the dogs suffering. There were two sausage dogs involved. How are they going to know which one caused the bite (if there was one).
 
meleeka said:
If that’s the case why waste time trying to work out which dogs were guilty, just PTS them all and save the dogs suffering. There were two sausage dogs involved. How are they going to know which one caused the bite (if there was one).
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Because the dogs that were no part of the attack are innocent and if nothing else the owners deserve to know that.
I dont know the answers to how they will find out which one did or didn't do what, I am not a forensics scientist. Maybe its as straightforward as one has a broken tooth or teeth missing, maybe one is bigger than the other?
My point was just because you believe that one of the sausage dogs could not delivered the bite or bites that killed her does not mean they were not active in the attack, if they were they may or may not have been the dog or dogs that started the whole frenzy?
 
A really heartbreaking situation for the owners.

I wonder what type/ breed the other two dogs were as I think it was only five that were mentioned.
 
I care and also don't care what breeds these dogs are. To some extent I do, from a curiousity standpoint, and to see if they're of breeds that have a "record" of poor behavior in public, so to speak. At the same time though, I feel as though any breed could get sucked into a pack mentality situation and act "out of character" depending on the circumstances.

I know some people "love" to hear when it's a Pitbull, Bully or "XL Bully" and/or whatever other breed that is often deemed dangerous so that they can continue their crusade against the breed, and while I feel as though certain breeds don't belong in the hands of many owners or homes (like keeping a big LGD in a tiny urban flat with little exercise and no constructive training), we're the idiots that keep setting them up to fail.

I see so many people promoting aggression and literally training/encouraging aggressive behaviors in Cane Corso's for example, and then breeding from those more aggressive dogs. Then they keep them in a small space/home, don't exercise them (they're a fairly active breed/mastiff), or train them properly, and when the dog bites or attacks, blame the dog(s) and ban the breed! Obviously it's a breed I care about, seeing as I own one and have interacted with many, and if the breed has to eventually die in some places/countries in order to save them from being in the hands of idiots and behaving poorly, then so be it, I suppose.

I guess I'm just sick of it. I think people have too much free access to all sorts of dogs. Some are more tolerant of idiots, poor training, and other mistakes, so it doesn't matter as much, but some breeds don't suffer fools and without spot on training can be hellions. So should we live in a world of only "idiot proof" dogs? I mean, because people aren't ever going to get their proverbial sh*t together.

While your odds of being mauled are indeed far less with some breeds, I hate to hear the, "I knew it!" stuff when it comes out that a dog involved in an attack was a Pitbull, for example. I mean, I don't know how to f*ck up a Labrador, but I'm sure it's possible. It may be easier to f*ck up a Pitbull that already has shite breeding.

In the meantime, yeah, we should ban breeds because we can't seem to ban idiots from society, and even if there were a 2 dogs per dog walker law of sorts, would it really be followed and enforced? I also think that many dog walkers would up and quit because they're profit wouldn't be nearly as a high as when they could walk 4+ dogs.

So what exactly do we do to prevent incidents such as what happened to the woman walking those dogs in this case? Sort of a rhetorical question because the answers can be easily found, but not necessarily exercised.

It's not rocket surgery re how they'll find out which dogs bit the woman and where, but perhaps I say this as someone who has watched and/or read a lot of True Crime genre stuff. I do think it's a shame that these dogs have to remain in police custody for so long. I don't think it has to be that long, but I don't know their backlog or how they prioritize cases...and what red tape is involved. Plus, they're "just dogs who were involved in an attack" so some people just don't give a toss about what is happening with the actual dogs.

It's really an unfortunate situation for everyone involved, especially the woman who lost her life. Could it have been avoided if she walked less dogs at once? Possibly. Are there things that we can learn from the situation? Sure. Will anything change? Doubt it. Just more people will be afraid of dogs and certain breeds will likely get more ammo to be used against them. The cycle continues.
 
I agree , it’s not the breed it’s the idiots who own them and the idiots who breed for aggression and weird looks. It needs to be made more difficult to own a dog and ideally it would be good for all new owners to go on a course with their puppies to learn the correct way to look after and train them. It will never happen as it will cost money so I don’t know what the answer is .
 
I see that the police have announced that no criminal charges will be brought, which makes sense as I guess no one was really at fault, and certainly not criminally so. The poor woman that died was just doing what many dog walkers seem to do without any repercussions, i.e. was out with more dogs than one person could control, but this time it went tragically wrong. I wonder if it will make any other walkers who take out multiple dogs at once rethink that idea? Perhaps dog owners employing walkers will also realise they should ask how many dogs are being exercised at once, but perhaps it then becomes unaffordable.

We then get back to the endlessly discussed point (on here anyway) that there are probably many people who buy dogs without fully understanding the associated responsibilities and costs. Maybe some of the seemingly over-stringent requirements of the rescue centres around how long dogs can be left etc. are not actually unreasonable, but of course often no such requirements are made of people who buy dogs, especially if dodgy breeders are involved.

Just add it to the list of issues concerning dogs that are never going to be fixed.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Inquest adjourned til June 29. She was a professional dog walker.

Her left jugular vein was perforated, among other wounds. She had to be identified by dental records.

Utterly dreadful.
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It is dreadful and I feel very sorry for her family but I am afraid that the responsibility lies with the dog-walker and I hope and trust that the Coroner will find in accordance with that. I imagine that the verdict will be 'Death by Misadventure'.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
It is dreadful and I feel very sorry for her family but I am afraid that the responsibility lies with the dog-walker and I hope and trust that the Coroner will find in accordance with that. I imagine that the verdict will be 'Death by Misadventure'.
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Victim blaming at its finest, how is it not death by dog attack ? The police have eight dogs, we don’t even know how many dogs she was walking or yet what happened.
 
stormox said:
I don't see why the dogs that were being walked can't go back to their homes. I can't see that this one horrendous incident will turn them all into killers.
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I think it's (a lot) more complicated than that. Wouldn't a dog that has caused someone's death be automatically destroyed? This case is difficult because there were so many dogs on the scene/ involved, so I assume they don't know which ones were involved in the attack and/ or which ones caused the lady's death. Well, they may have an idea. Presumably any that can be proven to have been significantly involved in the attack will be put to sleep, but any that can be shown not to have been involved will be returned to their owners. I assume this is a process that could take a long time.
 
marmalade76 said:
If she had to be identified by dental records, she must have been very badly mauled.
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Yes it sounds like it but it may have been just one bite that killed her. A horrible thing to happen but probably each of those dogs on there own would have ok but in the heat of a fight, all tangled on leads and scared they all probably thought they were fighting for there lives and the poor lady was just in the way or trying to split them up. That may not be what happened but it may have been. A very sad accident.
 
HashRouge said:
I think it's (a lot) more complicated than that. Wouldn't a dog that has caused someone's death be automatically destroyed? This case is difficult because there were so many dogs on the scene/ involved, so I assume they don't know which ones were involved in the attack and/ or which ones caused the lady's death. Well, they may have an idea. Presumably any that can be proven to have been significantly involved in the attack will be put to sleep, but any that can be shown not to have been involved will be returned to their owners. I assume this is a process that could take a long time.
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No. A dog that trips someone or knocks someone over and they hit their head or go into shock, for example should not be automatically destroyed. That is still a dog causing someone's death.
Horses cause deaths all the time and do not get destroyed.

At risk of repeating myself, how they determine which dogs were involved in the individual bites can be assessed through a number of means, but agree it will take a long time.
 
I read in one article the other lady who got bitten was attacked first then they turned on the dog walker. I think the other lady may have let her own dog run into the pack being walked and she picked it up and got bitten thus starting the mayhem.
 
bonny said:
Victim blaming at its finest, how is it not death by dog attack ? The police have eight dogs, we don’t even know how many dogs she was walking or yet what happened.
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There will be no individual prosecutions so you might want to take that up with the police/judiciary. The issue is that she was not in control of the number of dogs and types of dogs that she had, tragic as the situation is.
If we imagine that the dogs attacked/killed someone else and not her, it is likely that she would have been prosecuted for having dogs out of control, not the owners, if that makes sense.
 
stormox said:
I read in one article the other lady who got bitten was attacked first then they turned on the dog walker. I think the other lady may have let her own dog run into the pack being walked and she picked it up and got bitten thus starting the mayhem.
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That's just speculation/what an article said though, it's for the court to determine what happened.
 
CorvusCorax said:
No. A dog that trips someone or knocks someone over and they hit their head or go into shock, for example should not be automatically destroyed. That is still a dog causing someone's death.
Horses cause deaths all the time and do not get destroyed.

At risk of repeating myself, how they determine which dogs were involved in the individual bites can be assessed through a number of means, but agree it will take a long time.
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Sorry, I did mean a dog that had attacked someone and caused their death. I assumed that was obvious but clearly not!
 
HashRouge said:
Sorry, I did mean a dog that had attacked someone and caused their death. I assumed that was obvious but clearly not!
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If a small dog bites someone through fear or accident, not badly, and they get blood poisoning and die (IE they do not die of trauma or blood loss) should that dog be PTS? I know we're going off on a tangent here but there are myriad ways for a human to die because of a dog.
 
meleeka said:
One can only hope she was already dead by that point :(
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The report in the link above said that there were multiple bites in the neck area. That wouldn't have necessitated a dental records identification but there was no mention of bites to the face. I would think that if a number of dogs on leads pulled a person/body along a surface for even a fairly short distance there would be a lot of damage to the face - just think of the gravel rash if you fall off a horse and slide a short distance.
 
To be honest, I don't understand why the dogs must be kept in a kennel rather than getting sent home under the condition that they must be leashed and muzzled when in public. If there were any concerns, presumably they could do a behavioural assessment to check that they're fit to return home.
 
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