Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
My collie I lost a few years ago was amazing at working at a distance without too much command but always kept and eye on where I was.
Working kelpies
- Thread starter Moobli
- Start date
My collie I lost a few years ago was amazing at working at a distance without too much command but always kept and eye on where I was.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
The Australian shepherd is either bob tailed or docked, don't know which.
satinbaze
Well-Known Member
The Australian shepherd can be born either natural bob tail or with a full tail which is then traditionally docked. However UK born Aussies often have tails, due to anti docking laws. Apparently you should not mate natural bob to natural bob as it causes spinal issues, just as Merle to Merle matings cause eye and liver issues
Lucyad
Well-Known Member
It's Australian Cattle Dogs that can come in 'stumpy tailed' versions, and I have never heard of the full tailed ones being docked here or in Aus (maybe a US thing?). Not Australian Shepherds. I have an ACD (blue heeler), and could do with a few 1000's of acres and some cows to keep her occupied, which might divert her from trying to round up the horses. Lots of training, agility and desensitisation is slowly beginning to work, but it is a real uphill struggle trying to control her natural herding urges!
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Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I have never seen a ACD (Blue or red heeler to me) with a short tail?
Lucyad
Well-Known Member
Me neither - there aren't very many with tails here, never mind stumpy tailed! I just read about them when researching the breed before getting ours. They are a separate breed - stumpy tailed ACD - but originating from same foundation stock. Few differences in colour and conformation standard too. No idea if there are actually any in uk at all.
Edited to add - oh, I have googled and you are right, you do get stumpy tailed Australian Shepherds too! Never seen one without a tail here. Wonder if it from the same gene as the stumpy ACD's - I suppose that way back they would have had similar foundation stock?
Edited to add - oh, I have googled and you are right, you do get stumpy tailed Australian Shepherds too! Never seen one without a tail here. Wonder if it from the same gene as the stumpy ACD's - I suppose that way back they would have had similar foundation stock?
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Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Indeed. I lived in Alsace-Lorraine and the architecture is far more German gothic fairy tale than French fancy! The annexing that went on back in the day was crazy. Lots of interesting names remain to commemorate the history. I lived in Metz, not very French sounding. :biggrin3:
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Yeah pretty much all the people spoke German and the food was very Germanic. Even though we were in France 
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Back on to my kelpie quest It seems to come over me once a year or so. Sadly just missed out on a litter, so may have to wait until next year unless I can find another suitable one before then.
It seems to come over me once a year or so. Sadly just missed out on a litter, so may have to wait until next year unless I can find another suitable one before then.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
erm, farmer friend is getting two mid-December from the same litter (lol) but they're coming from Devon/Somerset I think.
He moans about his during lambing and then seems to have memory failure later on in the year
He moans about his during lambing and then seems to have memory failure later on in the year
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Lol. Just read this again. The German federal herding championships for GSDs finished yesterday.
My fear for Kelpies like a lot of other breeds is that the traits that make them what they are will be bred out of them to make them more suitable for pet homes. And the people that what Kelpies for what they were naturally intended to do will have to look a bit harder.
My fear for Kelpies like a lot of other breeds is that the traits that make them what they are will be bred out of them to make them more suitable for pet homes. And the people that what Kelpies for what they were naturally intended to do will have to look a bit harder.
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Moobli
Well-Known Member
erm, farmer friend is getting two mid-December from the same litter (lol) but they're coming from Devon/Somerset I think.
He moans about his during lambing and then seems to have memory failure later on in the year
Ooh find out where please? I wonder if I could have one dropped off on the way past ...
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Yes, depressing isn't it.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
its already happening-lots of kelpies and crosses showing up on behaviour pages. I suspect the crosses are for what you mean though.
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MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
Ooh find out where please? I wonder if I could have one dropped off on the way past ...
will try and get some details for you
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Kelpies seem to be appearing in agility more regularly now too, and I believe there are even now "sport lines".
Moobli
Well-Known Member
will try and get some details for you
Thanks. Shallow I know, but I really want a red one (as well as one from good working parents)
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
Thanks. Shallow I know, but I really want a red one (as well as one from good working parents)
their current bitch is a red-expect I will just get a phone number forwarded to me
but will let you know. dont think they would go all that way for an unproven working line!there were a fair few cropping up on a FB dog training page that I had to leave (the page owners are good trainers-experienced and successful agility people, about 75% of their followers I wanted to smack upside their heads lol) due to people taking these breeds on and refusing to acknowledge their dogs' raison d'etre. The penchant for 'mini' aussies and mini sibes was especially perplexing although more of a US thing (for now)! I am better off being in denial about the whole thing.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
their current bitch is a red-expect I will just get a phone number forwarded to me
there were a fair few cropping up on a FB dog training page that I had to leave (the page owners are good trainers-experienced and successful agility people, about 75% of their followers I wanted to smack upside their heads lol) due to people taking these breeds on and refusing to acknowledge their dogs' raison d'etre. The penchant for 'mini' aussies and mini sibes was especially perplexing although more of a US thing (for now)! I am better off being in denial about the whole thing.
Sounds like a page to avoid like the plague!
Wonder if the pups are coming from Lyndhurst or Devonairs lines - which seem to be the two "big" breeders down south.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Do you call them 'red clouds' over here, or is that an Aussie thing?
Moobli
Well-Known Member
I have heard the term but not in working circles over here - they are just red or red and tan.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
I've never had a Kelpie nor anything to do with them. Though they're handsome animals and probably with more of a conformity to a 'Standard', those Collie-people who I've known who have had them, always seem to revert back to Collies. I always thought that if I took one on and didn't like it, what would happen to it.
I once went with a chum to buy some sheep and the guy, when we finally arrived, had a Huntaway. To say that it was vocal would be an understatement and I felt that the dog relied more upon its voice (which mostly the sheep ignored!) than any of the power which we look for in a Collie.
Alec.
I once went with a chum to buy some sheep and the guy, when we finally arrived, had a Huntaway. To say that it was vocal would be an understatement and I felt that the dog relied more upon its voice (which mostly the sheep ignored!) than any of the power which we look for in a Collie.
Alec.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Interesting. No black and tans? The red cloud was slightly different, tended to be a bit smaller than the black and tans, more collie like perhaps. Some would say 'Red Cloud kelpie' and some just 'red cloud'.
They didn't seem to have the finesse of a border but were bred to do a slightly different job, maybe?
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Sorry I didn't mean there weren't any black/tans - that seems to be the most popular colour or at least the most common. There are some kelpies that are good all rounders and use eye, a little like a stylish collie, but I think they have a more plain working style.
Kelpies great strengths seems to be in their tirelessness, stamina and ability to drive huge mobs of sheep over enormous distances. From my limited experience and knowledge (and with a healthy dose of generalisation!), it would seem that kelpies are slower to mature, less intense than collies (in that they can't take training pressure unlike collies who excel at it) so learn better in short training sessions and with on the job training. If we do get one, it will be very interesting to see the differences.
bonny
Well-Known Member
I have a kelpie/border collie cross so the best of both worlds although he looks like a pure Black and Tan kelpie. I got him from a farm in the borders where both parents are good working dogs and he's an absolutely brilliant dog. I've had collies all my life but I'd say he's better in everyway, easy to train, lovely nature and stunning to look at. His siblings all work and although my dog is a pet I have no doubt he would make an excellent working dog.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to hear from those, directly, who have cross-bred dogs and use them for daily work. The 'general' experience of those who crossbreed dogs in the hope that they'll take up the benefits from both breeds, in reality, is that the pups generally benefit from neither. Back in the 1800s there were those who decided to cross English Pointers with Labrador Retrievers in the hope that they would produce pups which would both point and retrieve. They ended up invariably, with pups which did neither!
It may be that the influences of the Pointer and Labs were so opposing to each other that they didn't stand a chance anyway, and it may also be that though the styles of the Kelpie and the Collie are different, the herding instinct is in both so it may well come to the fore. I'd be genuinely interested if those who keep these dogs as a first cross could join with us.
Kelpies for instance are considered to have an improved level of stamina, though perhaps a little more lackadaisical about their work, whilst I've had collies which are so intense that after less than an hour of focussed work, they're all but off their legs, despite the fact that they were fit dogs. I would be interested to hear of the benefits to the cross.
Alec.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Well I don't hang around ...
Male kelpie pup booked! The litter are three weeks old at the moment and I got the last dog puppy. Just a bit excited!
Male kelpie pup booked! The litter are three weeks old at the moment and I got the last dog puppy. Just a bit excited!
Moobli
Well-Known Member
I've never had a Kelpie nor anything to do with them. Though they're handsome animals and probably with more of a conformity to a 'Standard', those Collie-people who I've known who have had them, always seem to revert back to Collies. I always thought that if I took one on and didn't like it, what would happen to it.
I once went with a chum to buy some sheep and the guy, when we finally arrived, had a Huntaway. To say that it was vocal would be an understatement and I felt that the dog relied more upon its voice (which mostly the sheep ignored!) than any of the power which we look for in a Collie.
Alec.
OH had a wonderful Huntaway about 20 years ago but hasn't be persuaded back to one since ... especially when the assistant shepherd bought one and spent most of his time yelling at it to shut up
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Well I don't hang around ...
Male kelpie pup booked! The litter are three weeks old at the moment and I got the last dog puppy. Just a bit excited!
ooh
red?