Would you investigate further?

[Dyllymoo]

Obviously J has been diagnosed with neck arthritis and an imbalance in his left fore. He has just had his new shoes done by a specialist farrier. (thread here: https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/wwyd-tripping.793741/)

I had to push for foot xrays as vets wanted to just treat his neck, but physio said the neck was "caused" by something (not trauma due to it being on both sides and the areas) and its likely from the feet. We had both fronts xrayed to look for navicular and vets didn't find any but found the imbalance. Farrier has looked at the xrays and thinks he sees something but wanted to send to his friend to have a better look. I know he is busy but I haven't heard anything since (I have messaged today).

He mentioned J's hinds are as bad (heels collapsed) as his fronts and he wouldn't be surprised if there was something going on in those (or possibly hind limb/ back area). Nothing has showed up at the vets (they concentrated on his front left as being 1/10 lame but even then when they found his neck issues they weren't interested in anything else).

I am now thinking if there is something wrong behind wouldn't it be better to find it now (especially before the insurance runs out), rather than trying to rehab him and then finding in 6 months we need to start again or do something different?

I'm a known worrier, I know this, but I cant help but feel a niggle that maybe we are concentrating too much on the front end.

What would we go for? Xrays of hind feet, scans of suspensories? Xray of back to rule out kissing spine?

Obviously I don't want to "waste" the insurance money, but at the same time if there is something not right behind as well as in front surely we need to try and sort both together?

 

[milliepops]

what have you got left in the insurance pot and what kind of prognosis have vets given so far for a return to work? sorry if you've put that info somewhere else.

basically i think that if they were fairly optimistic about the neck issue responding to treatment so far and a return to the kind of work you'd be happy with, and there's money left to cover it, then I'd be more inclined to look at the hind feet IF farrier thinks he needs that info to address what he's seeing.

if the prognosis was more conservative... then possibly not, but then as you know I have retired my horse with a neck issue as I knew she wasn't going to stand up to the level of work I had intended. so I'm probably less inclined to throw the kitchen sink at a horse that's compromised anyway.

personally i don't think at this point I'd be setting off looking at the suspensories etc, just because you already have an answer to the tripping and now you're addressing the feet which I think you already knew were problematic. I don't personally think at this point that I'd be overly concerned about other things, plus if expecting insurance to cover it you'd need to have a reason to suspect them. other than the fact that hind suspensories go wrong fairly readily *in general* I am not sure why you would suspect them with J (though again might have missed something )

 

[Bernster]

It’s always tricky knowing how much to prod and poke v seeing if current plan does the trick. For my ks horse, we ended up on a long road of rehab over a few years but I’m not sure we could have done it differently and avoided that heartache.

Vets do tend to focus on what they can immediately diagnose and treat but if nothing has been flagged on the hinds, it sounds like you’d be on a bit of a wild goose chase? Fine if you have the insurance cover and there is something to check for, otherwise you might search for something and if nothing found, insurance might not cover it. That’s the dilemma I’m in currently having too!

 

[SEL]

Have you got 12 months on the insurance from onset of claim? I'd see how the current changes go and if you're 6 months down the line and you think there is a problem then start looking at the hind end. It may go under the current claim or be the start of a new one - often dependent on how the vet writes it up!

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks all. To be honest the vet didn't give any prognosis on his neck, which I found a bit odd. She said I could find someone to start riding him/ ride him if I dared after so many weeks of waiting for the injection to work. She wasn't interested in looking at the 1/10 lameness in feet. The report that I got for his feet was "explained" to me over the phone by another vet, but no other mention of anything other than "remedial shoeing".

The red flag to me was what the farrier said about his hind feet. He has said we can wait to see if the heels start to look better after 5 weeks (in between shoeing) and if they don't he will need the same shoeing as the fronts, but I would be inclined to get the hinds xrayed for that as he would then be able to see if there is anything odd in there (although he may not need them).

Both my last horses had suspensory issues and so I guess that is in the back of my mind.

Re: insurance, I'm not sure what is left. vets have been VERY slow to send the claim over to them, and the insurance company has been even slower at coming back to me. I'm guessing I probably have around £2500 left but I'm hoping to claim some of the remedial shoeing (but not sure how much they will let me claim if any). Its 12 months from end of July as I was honest about when he had his fall and I think that's the date they will take it from.

Vet said the xrays of his fronts wouldn't be able to be under the same claim as I had requested them even though he was 1/10 lame (and that was noted) and she said they would investigate at some point.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I agree with all of the above see how the rehab goes get his feet sorted and see where you are, chances are if something else is found and not connected to your claim by rights you can start another, I did on my horse vet just did a letter to insurance stating it was not connected and I had 2 claims running on one leg.

 

[milliepops]

you've been so badly treated by your vets, I really feel for you
Mine bend over backwards to be helpful and make sure it's all crystal clear, I also find they sort out claim forms really swiftly cos everyone wants to get the bills paid! it must feel like it's made unnecessarily difficult for you, what a pain in the bum.

 

[Dyllymoo]

you've been so badly treated by your vets, I really feel for you
Mine bend over backwards to be helpful and make sure it's all crystal clear, I also find they sort out claim forms really swiftly cos everyone wants to get the bills paid! it must feel like it's made unnecessarily difficult for you, what a pain in the bum.

Its why I was looking for another vet not long ago, but unfortunately no-one locally that I trust. I did think by going through the insurance they would be a bit more proactive with bills, but they haven't. RVC cant tell me my final bill for the CT either as it goes to my vets and then they send on. Madness really. I just feel like they wont tell me what they actually think as they are worried I could sue them for something! Its why the vet was adamant I shouldn't ride him but get someone else to.... weird.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You can often only claim for part of remedial shoes so if his regular shoes are say £50 and the remedial shoes are £80 they normally only pay the difference.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Agree with mp the vets sound poor, when my horse goes in for a work up I go into the vets sit down with him and he goes through all the images and explains it all then we discuss a plan of treatment.

 

[Dyllymoo]

You can often only claim for part of remedial shoes so if his regular shoes are say £50 and the remedial shoes are £80 they normally only pay the difference.

His normal shoes are £80 and remedial are £250 at the minute (possibly £320 next time depending if his hinds need padding)…. lets hope they pay the difference

 

[milliepops]

His normal shoes are £80 and remedial are £250 at the minute (possibly £320 next time depending if his hinds need padding)…. lets hope they pay the difference

that should be specified in your policy. but yes I'd say it's usually as above that the standard cost of shoeing is paid by the owner and the "extra" is billed to insurance,but you might have a total amount you can claim for this kind of treatment so worth checking that out. it's sometimes lumped into a sum available for other stuff like physio.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

His normal shoes are £80 and remedial are £250 at the minute (possibly £320 next time depending if his hinds need padding)…. lets hope they pay the difference

Jesus that's expensive! Why are they having pads?

 

[Dyllymoo]

Jesus that's expensive! Why are they having pads?

To help with the concussion. His heels are lower than his frogs.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

The thing I would worry about is that since the farrier have said that he suspects that there is something going on in the back hooves/back end as well, is there a risk that if you later decide to investigate the back hooves/back end, that the insurance company becomes grumpy because you didn't investigate it straight away when the farrier said something about it?

 

[Dyllymoo]

The thing I would worry about is that since the farrier have said that he suspects that there is something going on in the back hooves/back end as well, is there a risk that if you later decide to investigate the back hooves/back end, that the insurance company becomes grumpy because you didn't investigate it straight away when the farrier said something about it?

Thing is, the farrier wont do a report or anything so even if I did investigate later they wouldn't know he said about it? Unless he decides to do his hind feet then maybe.... but they wouldn't cover for the remedial shoeing of those which is where it all gets a bit cloudy if Im honest.

I'm just so tired of not really getting any concrete answers and forward plans. And I'm also sick of being told I don't stack feed buckets properly or I close gates on people (when it was the wind and I was half a field away!)… such is life I guess!

 

[ihatework]

I think you are going to need to try and manage expectations on concrete plans and answers, sometimes the vets just don’t have them and you need to take a deep breath and just go through the process in a stepwise fashion.

Sometimes more difficult said than done, but it’s too easy to wind yourself up into a frenzy and not achieve anything. Horses huh!

 

[Dyllymoo]

I think you are going to need to try and manage expectations on concrete plans and answers, sometimes the vets just don’t have them and you need to take a deep breath and just go through the process in a stepwise fashion.

Sometimes more difficult said than done, but it’s too easy to wind yourself up into a frenzy and not achieve anything. Horses huh!

I get that, I really do, but I feel being told to "Lunge for two weeks and then ride the horse if you want, or better still get someone else to" isn't really my idea of a rehab plan. Plus they haven't followed anything up, so how do I know if the injections have been helpful? He was happy to walk out at first, but then went back to being sluggish and pulling for his neck at the end of a ride. He is also still occasionally stumbling/ tripping, so is that because of his neck or his feet? Who knows. And does that mean I should stop walking him out?

 

[AandK]

That doesn't sound helpful at all, and I would be pushing for more of a rehab plan and also when they would next like to see him to assess. When was he injected and also when was he shod?

 

[Dyllymoo]

That doesn't sound helpful at all, and I would be pushing for more of a rehab plan and also when they would next like to see him to assess. When was he injected and also when was he shod?

I just don't think they are that bothered. He was injected on 15th September and he was shod on Friday (9th October).

 

[AandK]

They should be bothered, can you not get a second opinion?

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Thing is, the farrier wont do a report or anything so even if I did investigate later they wouldn't know he said about it? Unless he decides to do his hind feet then maybe.... but they wouldn't cover for the remedial shoeing of those which is where it all gets a bit cloudy if Im honest.

I'm just so tired of not really getting any concrete answers and forward plans. And I'm also sick of being told I don't stack feed buckets properly or I close gates on people (when it was the wind and I was half a field away!)… such is life I guess!

That sounds good with the farrier, to me.

About the rest, oh to have a functioning crystal ball that could tell us where the problem is, and what to do about it. And when you have such more difficult problems to deal with, those smaller irritations like being blamed for the wind blowing a gate shut on someone when you're half a field away from it, is probably something you don't have the energy to deal with.

Any chance you could try another veterinarian? Other than that I can only cross my fingers, and hope that what you're already doing + a bit of time, turns out to be what is needed to fix the problems.
{{{{Hugs}}}}

 

[Dyllymoo]

They should be bothered, can you not get a second opinion?

I'm just not sure who I can go to? The one people rave about locally is the one that missed my mares issues 4 times and just told me she needed riding through it!

 

[Dyllymoo]

That sounds good with the farrier, to me.

About the rest, oh to have a functioning crystal ball that could tell us where the problem is, and what to do about it. And when you have such more difficult problems to deal with, those smaller irritations like being blamed for the wind blowing a gate shut on someone when you're half a field away from it, is probably something you don't have the energy to deal with.

Any chance you could try another veterinarian? Other than that I can only cross my fingers, and hope that what you're already doing + a bit of time, turns out to be what is needed to fix the problems.
{{{{Hugs}}}}

It really is something I have no energy for, and I'm probably being over sensitive but with home not great, work just frustrating and all of this I just feel totally overwhelmed.

I will have a think but not really anyone else I can go to.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Unless he is showing discomfort on his hind feet I would be inclined to just leave them how they are, I understand in doing the front as his been lame and they are not balanced. If your really not happy get a second opinion you are entitled to it you can ask for a referral to one of the big equine practices and get them to do a full work up, did he go to the RVC?

 

[Dyllymoo]

Unless he is showing discomfort on his hind feet I would be inclined to just leave them how they are, I understand in doing the front as his been lame and they are not balanced. If your really not happy get a second opinion you are entitled to it you can ask for a referral to one of the big equine practices and get them to do a full work up, did he go to the RVC?

He went to the RVC for his CT of his neck, but nothing else.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

He went to the RVC for his CT of his neck, but nothing else.

You could of got them to do all the investigation for you but I appreciate you didn't realise how your regular vet was going to be like. See some small vets will refer to a large hospital some don't it's just how it is sometimes, it's such a shame as he was there.

 

[Dyllymoo]

You could of got them to do all the investigation for you but I appreciate you didn't realise how your regular vet was going to be like. See some small vets will refer to a large hospital some don't it's just how it is sometimes, it's such a shame as he was there.

The only reason he went there was that the CT scanner at my vets isn't big enough. My vet is the vets everyone's smaller vets get referred to. Unfortunately he had already had scan and xrays of his neck and a lameness work up at my vets. They just needed to check if the spinal column was impeded with the arthritis.

 

[IrishMilo]

personally i don't think at this point I'd be setting off looking at the suspensories etc, just because you already have an answer to the tripping and now you're addressing the feet which I think you already knew were problematic. I don't personally think at this point that I'd be overly concerned about other things

My thoughts too.

 

[ester]

You have a tangible thing to treat
I think searching for anything else right now could end up being a bit of a wild goose chase that your insurance might not cover.
I do understand your need to have things set out clearly and fixed but it doesn't always happen.