Would you investigate further?

[FinnishLapphund]

I'm just not sure who I can go to? The one people rave about locally is the one that missed my mares issues 4 times and just told me she needed riding through it!

It really is something I have no energy for, and I'm probably being over sensitive but with home not great, work just frustrating and all of this I just feel totally overwhelmed.

I will have a think but not really anyone else I can go to.

Judging only by what you've written on this thread, I'm not sure your current veterinarian sounds to be much better to hold on to in a storm.
Argh, it's bad enough when it is difficult to find out how to fix your horse, without adding difficult to find a good veterinarian to your list of problems.

But I can tell you one thing, you are not being over sensitive. You have too much on your plate, and when life is like that, it is perfectly normal to not have the energy to deal with someone nitpicking about feed buckets being stacked in precisely this or that way.

I presume that you didn't just open the door to the feed room, and threw in some feed buckets, without that you tried to leave the feed buckets in a somewhat proper order.
As I tell my mum, if you absolutely want something done in a specific way, do it yourself. But if you still want others to do it, either accept that they might do it a bit different, or set it up so that it is easy for others to do it "right".

 

[w1bbler]

Do lots of reading up for rehab plans.
Concentrate on getting your horses core strong, stretches, exercises, straighness training etc. Google / Facebook are your friend. Changing your horses way of going may help resolve multiple issues.
I've spent the last year rehabbing (ulcers kissing spine navicular). I felt very lost & alone after my horses diagnosis, but a full groundwork plan really helped me to focus.
With multiple issues its hard to know what came first, but if the horse moves better generally, lands better on its feet then it helps every part of the animal to be more comfortable.
If you suspect there are other issues it may help them, or help you to see them.

 

[BBP]

Do lots of reading up for rehab plans.
Concentrate on getting your horses core strong, stretches, exercises, straighness training etc. Google / Facebook are your friend. Changing your horses way of going may help resolve multiple issues.
I've spent the last year rehabbing (ulcers kissing spine navicular). I felt very lost & alone after my horses diagnosis, but a full groundwork plan really helped me to focus.
With multiple issues its hard to know what came first, but if the horse moves better generally, lands better on its feet then it helps every part of the animal to be more comfortable.
If you suspect there are other issues it may help them, or help you to see them.

I agree with the above 100%. We are all different, some of us *need* to know as much as possible, others are happy to proceed as if it is x, y, z. If you work on the basis that you know the hinds are under run and work to correct this successfully, then that is a win even if you didn’t know exactly what was going on.

I’m like you though and wanted to know as much of the picture as I could. Someone on here suggested I was blaming all sorts of things instead of ‘actively treating‘ his muscle myopathy (I still don’t know what they meant by that). I had been given a diagnosis of mild chronic PSD in one hind leg but to me that alone didn’t explain his horrible issue with getting up, even if it might have explained some lameness behind. I’ve been making good progress with an excellent osteopath, a trimmer willing to listen and adapt, and a lot of massage, with a bit of in hand work, but my gut said I was missing part of the picture and I just wanted to know what that was.

So today I’ve spent the day back at the vets with him. After the trot ups and lunging they yet again said he looked pretty good (and compared to the other horse in for a workup he looked fantastic), but to their credit they proceeded to do back and neck X-rays, back ultrasound and rectal ultrasound to view the sacroiliac region from inside. We also x-rayed the hind feet.

For me it was worth doing, although he’s not insured, as it’s given me extra information to understand how each thing influences the other, how what I do may benefit or aggravate it, and also information for my osteopath and trimmer to work with. I can educate myself on his physiology better. Other people might be happy to rehab without knowing those things. To be honest I may well keep doing what I’m doing, just with more awareness.

 

[tristar]

i`d have done what you have done, if that`s any help, if you don`t look, you don`t find and if you don`t find at least it some reassurance you are hopefully not damaging something with rehab

 

[Michen]

You’ve got to find a good vet who cares and who you can work with. I thank my lucky stars every day with my vet, we get on so well and he’s brilliant- it makes stressful situations that much easier. I know he will get advice when needed, present me with the facts, advise as he feels appropriate but give me all the options and take into consideration everything not even just the medical side.

It sounds like your boy MAY have complex issues so even if you don’t carry on any other investigations now, try and get yourself in the hands of a vet you can strike up a really good working relationship with. You’ll feel so much better for it, and less alone.

 

[Bernster]

The RVC have practice vets not just referral. That’s who I use. If that helps. Gonzales is great and seems highly rated.

 

[Dyllymoo]

The RVC have practice vets not just referral. That’s who I use. If that helps. Gonzales is great and seems highly rated.

Its just a bit hit and miss about getting there/ back. If the M25 is knackered it can take hours (It did for me on the way to drop him off)

 

[Bernster]

Aye the m25 is a nightmare at times. You may be too far but the vet practice is like any other, they come to you. They also refer into the RVC but you have access to their practice vets, who are just like any other day to day visiting vets.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Yep I'm probably too far away unfortunately. I would worry about an emergency as well. Thank you though

 

[ponyparty]

I probably would get hinds Xrayed in your position just because I'm also a worrier and underrun heels can cause such a lot of issues. I am obsessed with Progressive Equine Services at the moment haha I swear I don't work for them! The guy's a farrier who does assessments and gives advice on hooves all over the world and from memory it won't cost the earth:

https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/posts/4412970285443077

But to be fair, your farrier sounds proactive. I'd be very disappointed in vets advice re: rehab. Actually, historically, my vet told me to basically lunge the crap out of my arthritic horse in a pessoa, so I'm not convinced they all know what they're talking about when it comes to long term rehab definitely one to research yourself. I (and others on here) can recommend some places to start if you like?
Just to add, your yard environment doesn't sound very supportive which is probably making what's already a difficult situation even harder for you. I don't really have any suggestions around this (apart from move yards! Not always that easy though) but know that you're not alone and no matter what's going on there, you can always ask here and get a friendly response

 

[Dyllymoo]

I probably would get hinds Xrayed in your position just because I'm also a worrier and underrun heels can cause such a lot of issues. I am obsessed with Progressive Equine Services at the moment haha I swear I don't work for them! The guy's a farrier who does assessments and gives advice on hooves all over the world and from memory it won't cost the earth:

https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/posts/4412970285443077

But to be fair, your farrier sounds proactive. I'd be very disappointed in vets advice re: rehab. Actually, historically, my vet told me to basically lunge the crap out of my arthritic horse in a pessoa, so I'm not convinced they all know what they're talking about when it comes to long term rehab definitely one to research yourself. I (and others on here) can recommend some places to start if you like?
Just to add, your yard environment doesn't sound very supportive which is probably making what's already a difficult situation even harder for you. I don't really have any suggestions around this (apart from move yards! Not always that easy though) but know that you're not alone and no matter what's going on there, you can always ask here and get a friendly response

Thank you, such a lovely response. Unfortunately moving at the minute isn't going to happen. To be honest I don't really care for people's support on yards, I've always been happy to just to go it alone, as long as the horse is happy. I thought he was but he has been charging around his field the past 2 days so maybe not.

If you could send me some links that would be great. I have a super vet physio who specialises in rehab cases (actually I think she is in Horse & Rider this month) and she has asked me to call her on Friday so we can make a plan for his rehab. She likes to give me a week or two at a time and then relook at how things are going, rather than a 6 month plan as inevitably horses don't like sticking to plans! I think I just feel a bit lost at the minute.

Thank you again

 

[ester]

That sounds like an excellent plan, not all vets are good at rehab plans, some vets aren't the best at considering them for ponies/cobs etc- this has seemed the case sometimes if they are a particularly sports horse/TB heavy practice.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Why don’t you give your vets a call and book him in for a review prior to starting riding him again? I’d be quite upset (mainly as I’d feel like I must have let them down!) if one of my clients didn’t speak through their concerns with me prior to just switching vets with an ongoing case.

I know it’s really difficult, but sometimes treating and rehabbing these things takes time. Make a plan with them that if he’s not doing better in X number of weeks then he has nerve blocks etc as required, or is referred back to the RVC?

 

[AandK]

I think you have the same vet physio as me OP... Where are you based? If RVC is out due to M25 being a nightmare could you not try going west to somewhere like Liphook for a second opinion on his current issues? There is also a big vet hospital near me (Sussex Equine) who are my vets.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Why don’t you give your vets a call and book him in for a review prior to starting riding him again? I’d be quite upset (mainly as I’d feel like I must have let them down!) if one of my clients didn’t speak through their concerns with me prior to just switching vets with an ongoing case.

I know it’s really difficult, but sometimes treating and rehabbing these things takes time. Make a plan with them that if he’s not doing better in X number of weeks then he has nerve blocks etc as required, or is referred back to the RVC?

Problem is I'm just not really sure what to say to them, and they weren't particularly forthcoming with anything. when I asked for a prognosis (in the worst case vs best case scenario as I know it depends on a million and one things and vets don't like to say "oh yes he will be out jumping 1m before you know it, in case he doesn't for whatever reason) I got a shrug and then told the worst case and that was it. So it left me feeling that he had a slim chance of becoming a field potato and that was it, which was really confusing.

I know that when I got his report for his feet my vet went on leave and another vet had to explain it to me (I had to call them and ask someone to call me to go through it as frankly it was in vet language and it could have meant anything, good or bad).

I just feel so sad if I'm honest. I want J to be fit and healthy as much as he can, I know his arthritis wont disappear and it will eventually get worse, but I haven't even had a conversation about how long potentially the injection in his neck could last, and if I should be worried if he is still shaking his head/ neck mid ride.....

I know I sound like a broken record I just don't know what to do. If I go for a second opinion somewhere else will that cause issues with my insurance as unfortunately, due to personal issues, I'm not in a position to be able to throw money at him. Of course if he needed an operation or something I would find a way, but for investigations or "going over old ground", I'm just not sure.

Even Sue Dyson gave me a better understanding of what was wrong with my mare, and a prognosis (which was awful but at least she was honest!).

 

[Dyllymoo]

I think you have the same vet physio as me OP... Where are you based? If RVC is out due to M25 being a nightmare could you not try going west to somewhere like Liphook for a second opinion on his current issues? There is also a big vet hospital near me (Sussex Equine) who are my vets.

I'm in Kent. I did think about Liphook but as mentioned just now I'm unsure about getting a second opinion and if my insurance would cover it. If they cant then I'm just not sure what to do.

I'm hoping once I have spoken to the my physio tomorrow we can get going, but I just don't know if I'm fully appreciating the gravity of his issues, if I'm expecting him to come back to "full" (he was only ever hacking, but I was hoping to do riding club things with him) work, or if I just need to make him comfortable.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Problem is I'm just not really sure what to say to them, and they weren't particularly forthcoming with anything. when I asked for a prognosis (in the worst case vs best case scenario as I know it depends on a million and one things and vets don't like to say "oh yes he will be out jumping 1m before you know it, in case he doesn't for whatever reason) I got a shrug and then told the worst case and that was it. So it left me feeling that he had a slim chance of becoming a field potato and that was it, which was really confusing.

I know that when I got his report for his feet my vet went on leave and another vet had to explain it to me (I had to call them and ask someone to call me to go through it as frankly it was in vet language and it could have meant anything, good or bad).

I just feel so sad if I'm honest. I want J to be fit and healthy as much as he can, I know his arthritis wont disappear and it will eventually get worse, but I haven't even had a conversation about how long potentially the injection in his neck could last, and if I should be worried if he is still shaking his head/ neck mid ride.....

I know I sound like a broken record I just don't know what to do. If I go for a second opinion somewhere else will that cause issues with my insurance as unfortunately, due to personal issues, I'm not in a position to be able to throw money at him. Of course if he needed an operation or something I would find a way, but for investigations or "going over old ground", I'm just not sure.

Even Sue Dyson gave me a better understanding of what was wrong with my mare, and a prognosis (which was awful but at least she was honest!).

That’s difficult, I’m really sorry that’s how you feel with them.

It may be worth seeing if you could speak to the clinician that saw him at the RVC - even if it’s just over the phone or via email? Being the specialists in such conditions and used to reviewing the CT images etc. they will hopefully be best placed to advise you on the prognosis. The other option in my opinion would be booking him in for a review at the RVC when he’s ready to start being ridden again - that way there’s no bad blood/awkwardness between your ‘normal practice’ (for continuing using them for things like vaccinations, emergencies etc.) and the insurance should be ok with it as not going over same ground etc. I don’t think going for a second opinion elsewhere when you have already been to one referral hospital will be the best use of your insurance money I’m afraid as they’ll likely want to repeat all of the same things.

 

[Dyllymoo]

That’s difficult, I’m really sorry that’s how you feel with them.

It may be worth seeing if you could speak to the clinician that saw him at the RVC - even if it’s just over the phone or via email? Being the specialists in such conditions and used to reviewing the CT images etc. they will hopefully be best placed to advise you on the prognosis. The other option in my opinion would be booking him in for a review at the RVC when he’s ready to start being ridden again - that way there’s no bad blood/awkwardness between your ‘normal practice’ (for continuing using them for things like vaccinations, emergencies etc.) and the insurance should be ok with it as not going over same ground etc. I don’t think going for a second opinion elsewhere when you have already been to one referral hospital will be the best use of your insurance money I’m afraid as they’ll likely want to repeat all of the same things.

The thing is my vet told me to ride 2 weeks ago, I was walking him out under saddle as per physio instructions to keep him moving, but he had new shoes and a week off. Physio is calling today with his rehab plan. All the RVC did was his CT scan and when I asked about results they said they would not be able to discuss them that my vet would. Do you think they would discuss them with me now that my vet has injected him etc.? Its such a hard one. If I have to take him to the RVC again as a referral I will but he is such a sweet boy I hate leaving him anywhere, he does get a bit worried by new people and surroundings

 

[Lady Jane]

@Dyllymoo where do you live? The RVC is fairly close to me and I've always had good experiences with them when I have been referred - they are not my regular vet. My regular vet is very supportive so just wondered who you were using? Maybe PM me?

 

[milliepops]

I'm in Kent. I did think about Liphook but as mentioned just now I'm unsure about getting a second opinion and if my insurance would cover it. If they cant then I'm just not sure what to do.

I'm hoping once I have spoken to the my physio tomorrow we can get going, but I just don't know if I'm fully appreciating the gravity of his issues, if I'm expecting him to come back to "full" (he was only ever hacking, but I was hoping to do riding club things with him) work, or if I just need to make him comfortable.

hope the physio was useful. I was thinking of you on Friday as I've just had another diagnosed with neuro issues bloody horses I think these things are probably much more common than we think, sadly.

 

[Lady Jane]

The thing is my vet told me to ride 2 weeks ago, I was walking him out under saddle as per physio instructions to keep him moving, but he had new shoes and a week off. Physio is calling today with his rehab plan. All the RVC did was his CT scan and when I asked about results they said they would not be able to discuss them that my vet would. Do you think they would discuss them with me now that my vet has injected him etc.? Its such a hard one. If I have to take him to the RVC again as a referral I will but he is such a sweet boy I hate leaving him anywhere, he does get a bit worried by new people and surroundings

That is so weird - I have had a face to face debrief with my RVC consultant every time I've collected my horses - unfortunately I have had several trips there. They RVC also send their report to me as well as my vet, and then I discuss with my vet?

 

[Lady Jane]

@Dyllymoo I don't know any vets in the Kent area, I'm Beds/Bucks/Herts borders. I really would change your regular vet. Your existing vet would need to hand everything over so you wouldn't need to start from scratch. If you go to this link you can search by area and speciality. https://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/home/
Good luck

 

[shamrock2021]

The problem is that you have claimed for so much vet bills on your insurance . Chances are they are not going to pay out If you do more investigations you would Probably be paying for the vet bills yourself.

 

[Dyllymoo]

hope the physio was useful. I was thinking of you on Friday as I've just had another diagnosed with neuro issues bloody horses I think these things are probably much more common than we think, sadly.

Unfortunately she couldn't fit us in and the J came in with a nice cut to the front of his hock.

He has been on box rest for 2 days now.

Oh no im so sorry ?

 

[Dyllymoo]

@Dyllymoo I don't know any vets in the Kent area, I'm Beds/Bucks/Herts borders. I really would change your regular vet. Your existing vet would need to hand everything over so you wouldn't need to start from scratch. If you go to this link you can search by area and speciality. https://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/home/
Good luck

Thank you. Its knowing who to change to though. I need someone local enough in case of emergency call out and that I can get to reasonably quickly for visits. Its so tough to know what to do

 

[Dyllymoo]

The problem is that you have claimed for so much vet bills on your insurance . Chances are they are not going to pay out If you do more investigations you would Probably be paying for the vet bills yourself.

Not strictly true. I've only claimed £650 from my vet and £1800 from RVC. If the vets "recommend" further investigation though then that would be covered or it could be deemed a new claim for something unrelated.

 

[milliepops]

Thank you. Its knowing who to change to though. I need someone local enough in case of emergency call out and that I can get to reasonably quickly for visits. Its so tough to know what to do

you can be registered with more than one vet. that might solve those worries? have the local one for emergencies and use someone further away for complicated things.

 

[Dyllymoo]

you can be registered with more than one vet. that might solve those worries? have the local one for emergencies and use someone further away for complicated things.

I did call rvc but they didn't know what to suggest. I was hoping to have a chat with the physio to see her thoughts.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Still unsure what to do. Vets cant get me in until 17th November. Physio is coming back out on Monday as J doesn't feel himself and kept stumbling yesterday. I'm just exhausted.

I think its also the realisation that I will never "fix" him. You cant fix the arthritis he has, it is degenerative. This makes me so sad its untrue.

 

[milliepops]

I'm sorry Dyllymoo it's the pits, i know how you're feeling.