Would you leave? Help!

[Deltic Blue]

Hi everyone,

Sorry if this is a long one, I'll try and keep it as short as possible, but I just need some advice and reassurance that I'm making the right decision.

So we moved yards back in April to a yard which is lovely and suited to my mare, but we're now having issues with the YO.

To begin with, things were going well, YO was really helpful and approachable, but as time has gone on, I just get the feeling she does not like me/doesn't value me as a livery at all.

It all really started when my horse got injured and coming back into work. All was fine whilst on box rest, even offered the field behind her stable for a companion, which I really appreciated and kept on top of maintenance with the horses owner.

But when she was coming back into work, I started to ride her just around the yard as I felt comfortable with that, as I didn't want to take her in the school, or out on the road, having been out of work for 10 weeks, when she is an excitable/stressy horse and I'm not the most confident of riders.
I was told I wasn't allowed to do that as the yard is for leading horses on, not riding, and to go onto the hacking behind the yard which is just grass tracks, so I stopped and tried taking her onto the grass, where she was manageable, but got a bit wound up so I turned round and came back before she got worse.

I then decided to try again a few days later on the grass, went past the school where YO was, and got completely attacked by horseflies which wound my horse up so much, I did wonder if I'd get back without falling off. I'd never hacked up there before, so I wasn't aware of how bad the flies were, or I wouldn't have gone. YO then says, "oh you shouldn't hack down there at this time, the flies are really bad". But didn't tell me this before I went, only as I was coming back with my horse dripping with sweat and and very wound up.

I've now got a friend of a friend riding her for me, as I decided I'd happily pay someone to bring her back into work, as I'm just not brave enough.
The day she came down to first "try" her to see how they get on and if I liked her as a rider, YO had a go at me and told me I should have let her know. In my defence, I didn't know, and didn't think it would be an issue as we hadn't agreed to anything at that point and I was with her at all times, so it wasn't like I'd told her to go onto the yard on her own and ride my horse.
Ever since this point YO has been to put it politely, very rude to me and making me feel so unwelcome.

Yesterday, rider came over, we decided to try her straight in the school as opposed to going on the road which she's done a few times now and was relaxed and comfortable with.
YO was in the school with their son. I asked if we could come in and just walk around, since she can only walk. Told them my horse can kick if she feels trapped or a horse gets too close. YO's son proceeds to start cantering around the school, following and getting too close. My horse is now visibly upset and not happy with the situation at all. Rider tries to settle her down, which starts to work. So she stops to give her a long rein and try to relax. Horse then out of nowhere rears, and not just a small rear, quite a big one, which shocked us both as she has never reared like that before, she used to threaten when I first got her an hop, but never actually go up! The whole situation just blew her brains.

YO then comes at me and says , you should be putting IT on the lunge in very tight side reins. How are you happy with letting the rider get on her when she's this naughty. I don't feel you should be in here as she is a liability and will hurt someone. Questions my insurance and basically makes me feel like I shouldn't have asked someone to ride her. YO's son then says if IT kicks my horse I will kick off! So we were asked to leave the school.

By this point, I was in too much shock to even respond very well at how she had been speaking to me and making me seem like I forced the rider to ride her.
I didn't, I put an advert up asking for a confident, calm rider to come and bring her back into work following injury. Making them fully aware of the situation and that she is easily stressed.
I'm very annoyed that she feels she can refer to my horse as an it, when she knows full well what her name is and that she's a mare. When she was in work she complimented at what a nice horse she is and how well she was going. And now she thinks she dangerous. She's not at all, she just easily wound up and hasn't been in work for a good 11 weeks, so the situation just got too much for her.

Rider is not overly worried about how she behaved, so we took her down the road again, where she was calm and relaxed to be out of that situation. To ensure the ride was ended on a good note, and to calm her down, which did work.

I have been doing exactly as the vet has told me, no more than walk, which YO knows, so the suggestion of wacking her on the lunge and strapping her down really angered me.

YO has been increasingly rude and abrupt with me ever since she came back into work, and makes me feel like I don't know what I'm doing, and has questioned my morals as an owner one too many times now.
There's been too many rules created since I moved there, that I don't feel like I can do anything right anymore.
I've also recently found out that they won't allow any outside instructors to teach on the yard, we must use them. Which won't suit me and I have an instructor that I want to use.

I really don't feel welcome there anymore and I'm now looking to move ASAP.
My question basically is, do you think I'm making the right decision by moving, or would you stick it out?

Sorry for the rant, I'm just so upset at the situation and didn't know what to do

 

[Jojoeena]

Sorry you have been made to feel this way, is she like this with any of the other liveries ? Perhaps she is narked as you didn't ask her to ride for you (assuming that they offer this service)... I would be moving though as I couldn't be on a yard which I didn't feel comfortable at. Good luck in whatever you decide though

 

[muddygreymare]

Get out of there as soon as you can! Horses are to be enjoyed and this lady is making your time with your mare stressful and that's not on. Give your notice and find a new yard asap, you won't regret it

 

[Pigeon]

Yeah, move!! I did kind of see the YO's point with the no riding on the yard thing (most places wouldn't allow that) but it just got worse and worse. You could send your mare for rehab somewhere while you find a new yard?

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I would have moved when she told you to stop riding on the yard.

All the yards I have been on have allowed a horse to ride on the yard if it's just coming back into work.

 

[EBHouse]

Your horse is your "you" time, if you are not enjoying this time because of her then I would be inclined to take your business elsewhere provided you have somewhere else to go which is suitable. Good luck.

 

[Crackerz]

Firstly, don't worry about the rider - as you know, she is my best friend and she is calm and will stick to anything like glue and nothing in the world puts her off or knocks her confidence (which is why i tagged her in your advert!)

You just need to worry about the YO and yard - because you stressing about it will pass to your mare as she seems to be very sensitive. I recall you are not keeping the mare long term and want to sell this year? If that's the case, if she was mine i would just move her to a quiet yard and not worry whether they have a school or not. A nice calm relaxed atmosphere will do the pair of you the world of good whilst bringing her on to sell over the next couple of months.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, as a YO, I would be pretty narked about anyone riding on the yard or other people coming in without being notified prior. The former because its too damned dangerous as concrete and several gates going off it, the latter because I have a small yard. Its fine for a livery to bring friends etc, but not to have an un-announced person walk in on their own, not at all.

Also, would have been far better to not go into school with another in there, but to have pre-booked for exclusive use, or waited till YO's son was finished (quite frankly I would have been cross too about this if a kicker came in whilst my child (?) was riding).

However, that said - I dont agree with the lunge/side reins comment from your YO.

 

[Llanali]

Well, I would leave if I were you, because you are clearly upset. However I can see the other side.

I think riding on the yard is a bit odd, I wouldnt allow it I don't think, it's asking for stabled horses to be alert/ think something is going on, there could be tools laying about, peoples things, if the horse did something and became out of control its not a safe environment.

I also don't think it's the YO job to tell you that there might be flies. OK, it would have been considerate, but not really something to be narked about.

I also think its considerate and good manners to inform a YO that you have someone coming to ride your horse. They might wish to check your insurance/their insurance/ the riders insurance for a start, given someone else is making a profit/ working on their property.

The rudeness is not necessary but I think the reasonings are valid enough.

Again, I'd be annoyed if someone joined me in the school and announced I needed to be aware their horse kicked. I don't mind sharing but if the other horse was a kicker, I'd be cross if the other rider expected me to alter my programme. Why should the son not canter? He was there first.

Ahain, I don't agree with the lunging advice though.

Cross posted with above

 

[Deltic Blue]

Firstly, don't worry about the rider - as you know, she is my best friend and she is calm and will stick to anything like glue and nothing in the world puts her off or knocks her confidence (which is why i tagged her in your advert!)

You just need to worry about the YO and yard - because you stressing about it will pass to your mare as she seems to be very sensitive. I recall you are not keeping the mare long term and want to sell this year? If that's the case, if she was mine i would just move her to a quiet yard and not worry whether they have a school or not. A nice calm relaxed atmosphere will do the pair of you the world of good whilst bringing her on to sell over the next couple of months.

Thank you She wasn't put off at all, where as I was gobsmacked that she reared like she did. The plan is to sell her eventually, but I'm not going to put a time scale on it now as she needs to bought back into work very slowly and carefully, as she's still not 100% in trot, but the vet has given the go ahead for ridden walk work. I'm in no rush to sell her at all, so I'm going to give her all the time she needs to come back fighting fit.

I'm going to see a yard at the weekend, as I just want to go now. I'm not the only one she talks to like this, but the other liveries just ignore it, where as I want to enjoy my horse and not worry about doing something that they won't approve of.

I left the yard last night wishing I'd stayed at my old yard. Even though I couldn't school there because of the indoor that she didn't like, I didn't feel like I was constantly being scrutinised and I could enjoy hacking her out as there was lots of quiet hacking there. I'm just so upset and annoyed at how this has all panned out, the yard move was meant to be a happy one, and now I'm feeling like I'm walking on egg shells at the yard.

 

[smellsofhorse]

If you feel uncomfortable and can't enjoy your horse then yes move.

However I can totally undeestand a lot of what the yard is saying abs doing.

I think you sound very nervous of your horse which won't help her nervousness.
Walk her in hand around the arena.
Hack her in company.

 

[skint1]

I think there is only one way you can possibly stay at this yard-are you a prepared to suck up to them and listen to every utterance like it were from the lips of God himself to get in their good books? (and as I don't know them I have no idea if this would be advantageouos to you or not) Otherwise, sadly, I think you probably need to move, and you probably need to do it sooner rather than later.

Can you go back to the yard you came from? That always seemed like a nice place, I know it had the indoor school, but now you've got this rider to bring her on is that so much of a deal breaker?

 

[Crackerz]

Can you go back to the yard you came from? That always seemed like a nice place, I know it had the indoor school, but now you've got this rider to bring her on is that so much of a deal breaker?

I would try this. The rider you have has dealt with some horrendous horses so getting one settled in an indoor school would be one of her easier tasks for sure.


I'm shocked at the amount of people saying you would be miffed with people riding on the yard in walk!? I do masses with youngsters on the yard in winter (we dont have a school) and have backed many a pony on a concrete yard. Crazy rules - it's not like she was bombing around!!

Jeeeeeez i am glad i am at my yard, absolutely no issues from my YO at all.

 

[9tails]

Oh for sure you should move. YO has taken a dislike to you or your horse and she won't change her mind.

 

[paddi22]

i can kind of see where they are coming from on all the points.

- it is completely dangerous to ride on a yard, that would really annoy me on a yard. i don;t mind someone walking in and dismounting etc, but to be using it as an arena is dangerous. YO prob could see the horse was a potential rearer and if it went over on a yard surface rider could be seriously hurt.
-its not their job to remind you about flies, they mightn't have even remembered till you left
-you should have told them about the other rider
-it would make more sense to lunge (not strapping down rubbish though) but if you are letting a stranger get on a difficult horse then most people would lunge to see where the horses head was at
- i can see her point about insurance for another rider if horse has dangerious bahviours.

It sounds like you are struggling with this horse and completely out of your depth. I've been there before and its a horrible feeling. But the stuff the yard owner is saying is quite logical - they are probably just waiting for a disaster to happen.


The sound like the way they say them is winding you up, so you'd probably be happier on another yard.

 

[Deltic Blue]

I think there is only one way you can possibly stay at this yard-are you a prepared to suck up to them and listen to every utterance like it were from the lips of God himself to get in their good books? (and as I don't know them I have no idea if this would be advantageouos to you or not) Otherwise, sadly, I think you probably need to move, and you probably need to do it sooner rather than later.

Can you go back to the yard you came from? That always seemed like a nice place, I know it had the indoor school, but now you've got this rider to bring her on is that so much of a deal breaker?

I could in theory do that, but I just don't think it'll change things, and it's just not enjoyable anymore

It's something I'm seriously considering, moving back to my old yard, as the rider may well be able to get her to settle in the indoor school.

 

[skint1]

I would try this. The rider you have has dealt with some horrendous horses so getting one settled in an indoor school would be one of her easier tasks for sure.


I'm shocked at the amount of people saying you would be miffed with people riding on the yard in walk!? I do masses with youngsters on the yard in winter (we dont have a school) and have backed many a pony on a concrete yard. Crazy rules - it's not like she was bombing around!!

Jeeeeeez i am glad i am at my yard, absolutely no issues from my YO at all.

Same here!!

 

[skint1]

I could in theory do that, but I just don't think it'll change things, and it's just not enjoyable anymore

It's something I'm seriously considering, moving back to my old yard, as the rider may well be able to get her to settle in the indoor school.

I think it has to be worth a try. You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[ester]

OP, as a YO, I would be pretty narked about anyone riding on the yard or other people coming in without being notified prior. The former because its too damned dangerous as concrete and several gates going off it, the latter because I have a small yard. Its fine for a livery to bring friends etc, but not to have an un-announced person walk in on their own, not at all.

Also, would have been far better to not go into school with another in there, but to have pre-booked for exclusive use, or waited till YO's son was finished (quite frankly I would have been cross too about this if a kicker came in whilst my child (?) was riding).

However, that said - I dont agree with the lunge/side reins comment from your YO.

She didn't though? They were there together to try the mare out.

It is one thing I couldn't ever stand on a yard, people telling me who could and who couldn't ride my horse!

OP although I think the YO does have some valid points I think it sounds best you move, the whole situation sounds a bit toxic for you.

 

[Crackerz]

i can kind of see where they are coming from on all the points.

- it is completely dangerous to ride on a yard, that would really annoy me on a yard. i don;t mind someone walking in and dismounting etc, but to be using it as an arena is dangerous. YO prob could see the horse was a potential rearer and if it went over on a yard surface rider could be seriously hurt.
-its not their job to remind you about flies, they mightn't have even remembered till you left
-you should have told them about the other rider
-it would make more sense to lunge (not strapping down rubbish though) but if you are letting a stranger get on a difficult horse then most people would lunge to see where the horses head was at
- i can see her point about insurance for another rider if horse has dangerious bahviours.

It sounds like you are struggling with this horse and completely out of your depth. I've been there before and its a horrible feeling. But the stuff the yard owner is saying is quite logical - they are probably just waiting for a disaster to happen.


The sound like the way they say them is winding you up, so you'd probably be happier on another yard.

What do you think all the people do that don't have arena's or access to a field in a wet muddy winter? Why is walking around the yard to settle a horse under saddle whilst bringing it back in to work dangerous? It's a hell of a lot safer than taking an unsettled horse up the road...

Also, you have a horse that is ONLY allowed to walk, why would you put it on the lunge to see where it's head is? One of mine would explode on the lunge, but that is zero reflection to how he would be if i unhooked him and sat on him instead.

A normal sane YO would only pick up on things that were truly dangerous, none of which the OP has said has remotely come close imo.

God i love my YO!!

 

[Sukistokes2]

The bottom line is the YO was rude and patronizing to you, whether she had a point or not and it seems the sprog took his cue from the mother and was rude too! You are a paying customer and while you need to follow the rules that does not mean you need to listen to advice and be "told off" about your horse, when its clear you are following vet advice and getting someone more suited to the job to do the riding. I would be out of there asap. As others had said it should be your time with your horse!!

 

[Deltic Blue]

Just to add when I said I was riding around on the yard, I've only ever been walking, with supervision. The yard is mainly grass tracks, with the only gravel place being the lorry park. I was just sticking to the grass area near her stable, and she was always safely enclosed should I have fallen off, there wasn't the chance of her getting out onto the road.

In hindsight I can see everyone's point about asking for the rider to come down, however the rider is making no profit from me, and I didn't think it would be as big a deal for the first ride, as we hadn't agreed to anything at that time. Also about the flies, I guess my own common sense should have told me that.

I'm not scared of my own horse at all, she is a lovely horse and hasn't got a bad bone in her body, she's just excitable right now due to being off injured.
I happily ride her when she's in work, but I also did the same with my old boy who had time off due to an injury, I just prefer to ask someone braver to ride whilst they've got that edge still in them, then I'll happily get on and ride once she's less inclined to mess around, it's just the way I've always been, I'm not a brave rider.

The YO's son is also a grown adult, so he was more than capable of keeping his own horse away from mine, when I did say she can kick.

 

[paddi22]

I do masses with youngsters on the yard in winter (we dont have a school) and have backed many a pony on a concrete yard. Crazy rules - it's not like she was bombing around!!

.

do you really back on concrete? is there not a danger of a pony getting spooked or losing balance and slipping onto the concrete. i have backed very dopey quiet things at times, but would never start it on such a hard surface.

as regards telling the yard owner about the rider, there's also the point of making them aware that there will be stranger up on yard and in tack room etc. It's more for politeness sake than anything else.

 

[Deltic Blue]

What do you think all the people do that don't have arena's or access to a field in a wet muddy winter? Why is walking around the yard to settle a horse under saddle whilst bringing it back in to work dangerous? It's a hell of a lot safer than taking an unsettled horse up the road...

Also, you have a horse that is ONLY allowed to walk, why would you put it on the lunge to see where it's head is? One of mine would explode on the lunge, but that is zero reflection to how he would be if i unhooked him and sat on him instead.

A normal sane YO would only pick up on things that were truly dangerous, none of which the OP has said has remotely come close imo.

God i love my YO!!

I have to add that yes she can explode on the lunge, she is whip shy on the lunge and is more likely to run around on the lunge as she can do it, where as being ridden, she will walk happily.

 

[Deltic Blue]

as regards telling the yard owner about the rider, there's also the point of making them aware that there will be stranger up on yard and in tack room etc. It's more for politeness sake than anything else.

My point with this though, is that the first time she came up, she was with me at all times. I was planning on telling my YO that I had a rider/sharer if they got on, and could potentially be there alone a few weeks down the line. But I didn't want to tell her that this would be happening for definite, as I didn't know if she would want to take her on. But this first time, I was there with my OH and the rider, she wasn't on the yard on her own at all.

 

[EBHouse]

My point with this though, is that the first time she came up, she was with me at all times. I was planning on telling my YO that I had a rider/sharer if they got on, and could potentially be there alone a few weeks down the line. But I didn't want to tell her that this would be happening for definite, as I didn't know if she would want to take her on. But this first time, I was there with my OH and the rider, she wasn't on the yard on her own at all.

If the rider was there with you I don't see the problem. To me this is just the same as taking a friend (is she a friend?) to have a sit on, or my mom, or my boyfriend. It's nothing to do with the YO who rides your horse!

If she was there alone I would be inclined to tell the YO just out of politeness but it sounds like you planned to do this anyway.

If YO has rules such as don't ride around the yard, then they should be in a contract, spoken about when you first moved there, or possibly on signage around the yard. Some don't like it but you can't second-guess that and her being rude to you about it is unacceptable. If she'd told you in a polite manner I would feel differently about it

 

[applecart14]

Sounds like jealousy pure and simple to me. Its not just you OP, believe me!

My experiences of nasty yard owners:

I was told by one yard owner that it was entirely my fault my four horses died (heart attack in field, broken leg in field, wobblers syndrome and accident on fun ride) it was heartbreaking and totally soul destroying. Had been on that yard for ten years.

I have had a hay net string deliberately cut in half by another yard owner when I said I was leaving the yard after giving fair notice and being on the yard for over five years. I found it entangled around my horses feet when I got there later in the day.

I have had another yard owner yell at me on two separate occasions (one in front of my partner) because she was 'having a bad day' and the reason she was yelling at me was totally unjustified anyway! Had been on that yard for two plus years.

I have had another yard owner tell me that I was 'over reacting' and she started moaning at me for being a 'drame queen' when I stated that I was extremely worried about my horse who was going to Liverpool Hospital the following day (he was pts within two hours of arriving at said hospital). I had been on that yard for five years.

So you can see that in nearly 30 years of horse ownership I have not exactly yard hopped! Yet they still feel that they can be rude to those that they know will not retaliate. And I am a client and pay their wages!

 

[Deltic Blue]

If the rider was there with you I don't see the problem. To me this is just the same as taking a friend (is she a friend?) to have a sit on, or my mom, or my boyfriend. It's nothing to do with the YO who rides your horse!

If she was there alone I would be inclined to tell the YO just out of politeness but it sounds like you planned to do this anyway.

If YO has rules such as don't ride around the yard, then they should be in a contract, spoken about when you first moved there, or possibly on signage around the yard. Some don't like it but you can't second-guess that and her being rude to you about it is unacceptable. If she'd told you in a polite manner I would feel differently about it

Rider is a friend of a friend, and she also knows my YO as she used to have lessons from her, and even then she has been shocked at the way she speaks to me, as she does it in front of the rider.

 

[Crackerz]

do you really back on concrete? is there not a danger of a pony getting spooked or losing balance and slipping onto the concrete. i have backed very dopey quiet things at times, but would never start it on such a hard surface.

as regards telling the yard owner about the rider, there's also the point of making them aware that there will be stranger up on yard and in tack room etc. It's more for politeness sake than anything else.

Backed pretty much everything ever on concrete, maybe 20+ ponies & horses? Not had the luxury of a school. Neither has the YO and she's probably broken in far more. The yard is where they feel safest, where most things are doing with them so it's always been fine as adequate groundwork and prep has been done. In the winter, those of us without schools don't have much choice but to do things like that on the yard

 

[paddi22]

jesus you're braver than i am. I don;t have a school at home either, but just work on a patch of the paddock. i'm too old and don't bounce anymore, so concrete would freak me out!