would you let a pregnant friend ride your horse?

[Moomin1]

I don't disagree, and I certainly agree with khalswitz's point above about the likelihood of being sued.

Playing devil's advocate though, although parents are responsible, there are laws etc to stop them having total free rein. I'm thinking of theme parks not letting pregnant women ride rollercoasters. Are the theme parks denying the pregnant woman the means to take risks on the basis of avoiding responsibility? If so does it really matter whether your concern 're responsibility is moral or legal, given that it's two sides of the same coin? I'm going to say that it doesn't matter; if you don't want to be implicated, you don't, and the reason doesn't matter.

No, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme, because as I have said a few times now, an owner can do as they wish with their horse, whether it offends a pregnant woman or not, and whether it's for legal or moral reasons.

That's just reminded me, I was on rollercoasters at 11 weeks pregnant, and I even asked a park attendant what a particular ride involved, stating that I was pregnant. They were more than happy to let me on the ride, despite it having the usual warning on the board outside that pregnant women should not ride.

 

[khalswitz]

No, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme, because as I have said a few times now, an owner can do as they wish with their horse, whether it offends a pregnant woman or not, and whether it's for legal or moral reasons.

That's just reminded me, I was on rollercoasters at 11 weeks pregnant, and I even asked a park attendant what a particular ride involved, stating that I was pregnant. They were more than happy to let me on the ride, despite it having the usual warning on the board outside that pregnant women should not ride.

So, is the only acceptable justification that wouldn't offend a pregnant woman that of being sued??

 

[dogatemysalad]

I don't disagree, and I certainly agree with khalswitz's point above about the likelihood of being sued.

Playing devil's advocate though, although parents are responsible, there are laws etc to stop them having total free rein. I'm thinking of theme parks not letting pregnant women ride rollercoasters. Are the theme parks denying the pregnant woman the means to take risks on the basis of avoiding responsibility? If so does it really matter whether your concern 're responsibility is moral or legal, given that it's two sides of the same coin? I'm going to say that it doesn't matter; if you don't want to be implicated, you don't, and the reason doesn't matter.

It isn't a law that prevents pregnant women riding rollercoasters, it's advice. The signs mean the public are informed and can't sue because they didn't know the risks. People aren't generally trained in roller coaster riding and may not appreciate how jarring and sudden the movements are.

 

[Moomin1]

So, is the only acceptable justification that wouldn't offend a pregnant woman that of being sued??

Where did I say that exactly?

I said that I can understand that people would be worried about that, given the suing culture we live in. I didn't for one second say that the suing culture we live in is acceptable....

 

[khalswitz]

Where did I say that exactly?

I said that I can understand that people would be worried about that, given the suing culture we live in. I didn't for one second say that the suing culture we live in is acceptable....

No, sorry, didn't mean that to sound accusatory, was just asking. Just your comment about pregnant women being offended and your earlier comment about understanding that reason made me wonder if that was the only understandable reason from that perspective.

I'e never been, and never intend to be pregnant so I don't know.

Equally I agree the suing culture we live in is disgraceful but unfortunately one has to protect oneself... and in the scenario of parents suing after injury to children in horse riding I have firsthand knowledge of how vicious they can be...

 

[Spring Feather]

As in 'telling' that a lot of us feel a sense of responsiblity for the safety of an unborn child? On the contrary, I find it to be heart warming.

'Telling', as in the amount of people on here who do not think a pregnant woman is capable of rational and intelligent thought. It's her body, her baby and her decision, but apparently she needs other women telling her what she should do and what she shouldn't do presumably because they believe she's not capable of making that decision herself?

 

[Mince Pie]

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but this is it for me. It's not just falling either. A pregnant lady got knocked over at my old livery yard last summer and although she and baby were fine...it was just one of those thing, spooked horse, swung around, lady on floor (it was her sisters pony) and they were all absolutely petrified.

I don't think it's worth the risk in any way, shape or form. Good decision as I can only imagine how mortified you would be if something went wrong. You're too damn nice to let harm come to anyone chick xx

This has just reminded me of an incident that happened when a friend of mine was 38 weeks pregnant. We (my friend, her mum and I) were walking down a narrow track down to the summer fields to catch our horses, my dog ran past us from behind and managed to run into the back of my friend's legs meaning that she fell forward onto her stomach. When I think back on it I can still remember the utterly sick feeling I felt when it happened, and was petrified that she had damaged the baby (she was pretty huge though!). Luckily all was fine but I felt awful!

 

[Daytona]

No chance. I'm pregnant and I wish I could ride my horse I hate being sidelined but I never would ride her.

Sometimes you have to put something else before your own needs and being pregnant and stopping riding is one of them I think.

The general advice given by medical professionals is do not ride horses as you can fall off. And I don't care what anyone says it's a possibility you can't stop a horse falling over.

If you happy to live with the fact you could kill your child well then I guess that's a difo matter, but it's something I don't agree with. So I'd be telling her no way.

 

[Daytona]

Out of interest (and not having a go here, purely out of interest now), those that say they wouldn't allow a pregnant woman on their horse, would you pour a pregnant woman a glass of wine if she said she would have one at a barbeque, for instance?

No I would not nor would I hand her a cigarette

 

[Walrus]

No I wouldn't, purely for the selfish reason that if anything happened I'd have to live with the guilt that it was my horse, even though I'm sure everyone would say it was the mothers decision and she knows the risks etc. Apart from a little sit in the school the only people that ride my horse other than me are YO and instructor, essentially people who's job it is to ride clients horses and do it on a regular basis. I don't like the idea of anyone else riding mine, not because he's naughty or dangerous but if something happened and then, for example, they had to have time off work or couldn't drive, lost income etc I would feel awful.

 

[SadKen]

'Telling', as in the amount of people on here who do not think a pregnant woman is capable of rational and intelligent thought. It's her body, her baby and her decision, but apparently she needs other women telling her what she should do and what she shouldn't do presumably because they believe she's not capable of making that decision herself?

I'm not sure that's true SF, I think it's more complex than that. After all, most folks if not all would say that a pregnant lady riding her own horse is perfectly fine and they have no concerns/no view and no objection to that at all, and it's mum to be's decision. The interesting part of this thread is the motivation for saying no to allowing said lady to ride your horse, which offers a glimpse into social relationships and the effect of risk on them. I don't think most people would say no due to the risk of being sued, but because of the effect of an accident on their own psyche and their relationship with someone who is presumably a friend.

Adding another layer to this, I asked OH if he would allow a pregnant lady to ride his motorbike. He said yes, and I agree that I would. I think therefore for me the difference is in predictability; if someone who can ride crashes my bike, it is not the bike's fault and by extension not my fault; rationally, blame can't be assigned to me (unless the bike was defective in some way, which it wouldn't be), as it's an inanimate object and therefore predictable. Horses aren't predictable and have their own set of variables, so the reason for a fall would likely rest with the horse and by extension, me. This would have a devastating effect on my own psyche and my friendship with the person (that's human nature), and therefore is not worth the risk.

 

[dogatemysalad]

What I find interesting about this thread, is the number of people who find riding a horse such a high risk. I'm assuming we're not talking about XC or point to point here, as no one has mentioned it - just simply riding the horse.

I feel totally at home on my horses. They are well trained and know their job. I know how to ride and not fall off just doing normal activities.
If I was so fearful of impending doom, I wouldn't get in the saddle, pregnant or not.

It's patronising to think that a pregnant woman cannot make rational decisions for herself and isn't responsible for the wellbeing of her own child. Women have ridden for many years when pregnant so accepting that the horse is reliable and the woman has a good seat, the decision is hers.

 

[DiNozzo]

It's not your choice either. It's the choice of the parents.

But if you saw someone doing something really stupid that you liked and cared about, you would try to dissuade them from doing it wouldn't you? If it was like deciding to take methamphetamines? Its the same thing. It depends on the individual nd their idea of safe and dangerous.
As I've said repeatedly I would not and could not stop the pregnant women riding, but I would not allow her ride my horse, as I think its a dangerous and stupid thing to do- regardless of whose choice it is to put themselves in danger.

dogatemysalad, I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pregnant women can't make decisions for herself, just that she may make decisions others don't agree with and support- which they would be doing if they allowed her to ride their horse.

If someone was taking methamphetamines regularly, which is of course their choice, would you help them to take it? Most peoples answer will be 'No, of course not'. But presumably this person began taking the drugs whilst they were sound of mind and capable of making the decision? Its the same thing- you wouldn't support a drug habit because it is dangerous, you won't allow a pregnant women to ride your horse because it is dangerous.

 

[dogatemysalad]

But if you saw someone doing something really stupid that you liked and cared about, you would try to dissuade them from doing it wouldn't you? If it was like deciding to take methamphetamines? Its the same thing. It depends on the individual nd their idea of safe and dangerous.
As I've said repeatedly I would not and could not stop the pregnant women riding, but I would not allow her ride my horse, as I think its a dangerous and stupid thing to do- regardless of whose choice it is to put themselves in danger.

So, by definition, you're saying riding a horse is a dangerous and stupid thing to do. In that case, no one should ride.
I don't feel I'm going to break my neck when I ride, although there's always the possibilty. Driving a car in heavy rain on the motorway is riskier, should we ban preganant women driving in bad weather too ?

Years ago, pregnant women used to complain that doctors used to treat them like irresponsible children and patronised them with taking charge of their body and unborn child.
I though we'd moved on to more enlightened thinking.

 

[DiNozzo]

So, by definition, you're saying riding a horse is a dangerous and stupid thing to do. In that case, no one should ride.
I don't feel I'm going to break my neck when I ride, although there's always the possibilty. Driving a car in heavy rain on the motorway is riskier, should we ban preganant women driving in bad weather too ?

Years ago, pregnant women used to complain that doctors used to treat them like irresponsible children and patronised them with taking charge of their body and unborn child.
I though we'd moved on to more enlightened thinking.

Of course it is! There's a reason insurance companies class it as high risk sport! IMO the risk increases too much for pregnant women to allow her to ride my horse. She is welcome to ride anything else, but I won't help to put her (or anyone else in other situations) to put themselves at risk.
I accept that whenever I get on my horse, that there is the potential for me to die or be seriously injured, and that is my choice.
I will not put anyone else into a position of possible harm though- barring my instructor who is far more secure than I ever will be and so the risk factor for her is less.
If you had bothered to read my comments, I have repeatedly said that I cannot and would not stop pregnant women riding. I just would not let them ride my horse.
Actually, driving a car on the motorway is not riskier. The number of people who are injured in motorway accidents is high, but the number comparitvely who are badly injured/killed is low, giving it a lower risk factor than riding, which although fewer people fall off, there is a greater number of people who are badly injured/killed, giving it a higher risk factor than driving on a motorway in bad weather. There are figures out there, but I CBA to go and find them.

 

[Moomin1]

But if you saw someone doing something really stupid that you liked and cared about, you would try to dissuade them from doing it wouldn't you? If it was like deciding to take methamphetamines? Its the same thing. It depends on the individual nd their idea of safe and dangerous.
As I've said repeatedly I would not and could not stop the pregnant women riding, but I would not allow her ride my horse, as I think its a dangerous and stupid thing to do- regardless of whose choice it is to put themselves in danger.

dogatemysalad, I don't think anyone is suggesting that a pregnant women can't make decisions for herself, just that she may make decisions others don't agree with and support- which they would be doing if they allowed her to ride their horse.

If someone was taking methamphetamines regularly, which is of course their choice, would you help them to take it? Most peoples answer will be 'No, of course not'. But presumably this person began taking the drugs whilst they were sound of mind and capable of making the decision? Its the same thing- you wouldn't support a drug habit because it is dangerous, you won't allow a pregnant women to ride your horse because it is dangerous.

I have already said a number of times I would try to dissuade a pregnant woman riding my horse. I wouldn't stop her completely though....depending on the factors I have already pointed out.

 

[Apercrumbie]

It's the women's choice to ride. It's also my choice who rides my horse and we all make mental risk assessments when we decide this. I know that my conscience couldn't cope if something happened, so I am not willing to take that risk. Why does the pregnant woman's decision supersede my own?

 

[Moomin1]

It's the women's choice to ride. It's also my choice who rides my horse and we all make mental risk assessments when we decide this. I know that my conscience couldn't cope if something happened, so I am not willing to take that risk. Why does the pregnant woman's decision supersede my own?

As ive said numerous times, it doesn't. What you do with your horse is up to you. Similarly, why should your decision about an unborn baby supersede that of the mothers though?

 

[DiNozzo]

As ive said numerous times, it doesn't. What you do with your horse is up to you. Similarly, why should your decision about an unborn baby supersede that of the mothers though?

NO ONE HAS SAID IT DOES.

Not one person has said they would try to stop a pregnant women riding at all. Therefore the choice to ride is still the mother's.

It just means that the pregnant women cannot ride somebody else's horse.

She is more than welcome to ride another.

Why should the pregnant women be allowed to demand to ride another person's horse? If the owner isn't happy with it, then that is that.

 

[Apercrumbie]

As ive said numerous times, it doesn't. What you do with your horse is up to you. Similarly, why should your decision about an unborn baby supersede that of the mothers though?

Because it's my horse. Her decision could potentially affect me and our friendship hugely. She can make her own decisions, but not when it comes to my horse.

 

[Moomin1]

Because it's my horse. Her decision could potentially affect me and our friendship hugely. She can make her own decisions, but not when it comes to my horse.

I really don't see why it would affect a friendship. None of my friends would hold it against me if a decision they made resulted in anything happening to their unborn child. I've even had some offering for me to ride their quiet horses whilst I am not willing to ride my own at the moment.

 

[Gloi]

Because it's my horse. Her decision could potentially affect me and our friendship hugely. She can make her own decisions, but not when it comes to my horse.

I can see that that would affect your friendship, they'll remember who they felt patronised by.

 

[Apercrumbie]

I really don't see why it would affect a friendship. None of my friends would hold it against me if a decision they made resulted in anything happening to their unborn child. I've even had some offering for me to ride their quiet horses whilst I am not willing to ride my own at the moment.

Then perhaps you are underestimating the immense grief a woman suffers after a miscarriage. I know several women who became extremely bitter afterwards. That's lovely that your friends have offered, and as I have said there is no problem in that. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable and that is completely my prerogative.

I can see that that would affect your friendship, they'll remember who they felt patronised by.

But I'm not stopping them from riding, only riding my horse.

Anyway, I give up. Anyone and everyone can ride my horse, it clearly has nothing to do with me!

 

[MerrySherryRider]

NO ONE HAS SAID IT DOES.

Not one person has said they would try to stop a pregnant women riding at all. Therefore the choice to ride is still the mother's.

It just means that the pregnant women cannot ride somebody else's horse.

She is more than welcome to ride another.

Why should the pregnant women be allowed to demand to ride another person's horse? If the owner isn't happy with it, then that is that.

The woman hasn't demanded anything.
Until I read this thread, I hadn't realised how often I've cheated death by getting on a horse. Near enough every day for the last 50 years.
Had a broken toe once though, when a horse stood on it. Does that count ? Perhaps the insurance companies will refuse to give life insurance to horse riders if they read this thread.

 

[DiNozzo]

I can see that that would affect your friendship, they'll remember who they felt patronised by.

My friends would be glad of it, not patronised. Care over a friends physical and mental health is not patronising.

I feel quite patronised by the fact that you would want me to disregard my own principles and feelings to allow a pregnant friend to ride.

None of my friends would expect me to do that and I'm very surprised at the number of people on here who would expect me to.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

You can regard your own principles, just as I can disagree with your opinion.
During my own pregnancies, I carried on pretty much as normal, I made my own risk assessments. It's not an illness, and my judgement was not affected. I was incredibly protective of my unborn children, but wrapping myself in cotton wool would have been detrimental to my health and that of my children.
I was once patronised by co workers when pregnant. Thinking they were helping, they made it impossible for me to do my job, which resulted in them working extra hard. They couldn't respect my own judgement and were so ridiculously OTT about preventing me from doing a major part of my work, that I left to enable them to have a non pregnant co worker.

 

[ozpoz]

I'm not sure that's true SF, I think it's more complex than that. After all, most folks if not all would say that a pregnant lady riding her own horse is perfectly fine and they have no concerns/no view and no objection to that at all, and it's mum to be's decision. The interesting part of this thread is the motivation for saying no to allowing said lady to ride your horse, which offers a glimpse into social relationships and the effect of risk on them. I don't think most people would say no due to the risk of being sued, but because of the effect of an accident on their own psyche and their relationship with someone who is presumably a friend.

Adding another layer to this, I asked OH if he would allow a pregnant lady to ride his motorbike. He said yes, and I agree that I would. I think therefore for me the difference is in predictability; if someone who can ride crashes my bike, it is not the bike's fault and by extension not my fault; rationally, blame can't be assigned to me (unless the bike was defective in some way, which it wouldn't be), as it's an inanimate object and therefore predictable. Horses aren't predictable and have their own set of variables, so the reason for a fall would likely rest with the horse and by extension, me. This would have a devastating effect on my own psyche and my friendship with the person (that's human nature), and therefore is not worth the risk.

Thank you Sadken, for explaining the 'hard to explain' human dynamics of the situation! : )

 

[Moomin1]

You can regard your own principles, just as I can disagree with your opinion.
During my own pregnancies, I carried on pretty much as normal, I made my own risk assessments. It's not an illness, and my judgement was not affected. I was incredibly protective of my unborn children, but wrapping myself in cotton wool would have been detrimental to my health and that of my children.
I was once patronised by co workers when pregnant. Thinking they were helping, they made it impossible for me to do my job, which resulted in them working extra hard. They couldn't respect my own judgement and were so ridiculously OTT about preventing me from doing a major part of my work, that I left to enable them to have a non pregnant co worker.

100% this.

A scenario. A friend/riding instructor etc has ridden a particular horse for the past nine years, let's say. They are very competent, experienced, and in all honesty more so than yourself. That person then tells you (those who would refuse a pregnant person riding their horse), tomorrow, that they are ten weeks pregnant, however they say they wish to continue riding your horse, having discussed it in depth with their partner, the father of the child. By someone saying that they are no longer entitled to ride that horse, they ARE superseding that woman's choice over her unborn baby, simply because you know that they are more than capable of riding that horse, which they have known inside out for nine years. Therefore you are making a decision PURELY on the fact she is pregnant. Not because you are worried she may not handle the horse, or she doesn't know the full dangers of the situation (ie if it was just a friend asking for a sit on the horse one day).

I would be interested to know if those that say they wouldn't allow a pregnant woman to ride their horse, would also stop them from being around their horse on the ground, ie leading, doing chores etc?

 

[khalswitz]

100% this.

A scenario. A friend/riding instructor etc has ridden a particular horse for the past nine years, let's say. They are very competent, experienced, and in all honesty more so than yourself. That person then tells you (those who would refuse a pregnant person riding their horse), tomorrow, that they are ten weeks pregnant, however they say they wish to continue riding your horse, having discussed it in depth with their partner, the father of the child. By someone saying that they are no longer entitled to ride that horse, they ARE superseding that woman's choice over her unborn baby, simply because you know that they are more than capable of riding that horse, which they have known inside out for nine years. Therefore you are making a decision PURELY on the fact she is pregnant. Not because you are worried she may not handle the horse, or she doesn't know the full dangers of the situation (ie if it was just a friend asking for a sit on the horse one day).

I would be interested to know if those that say they wouldn't allow a pregnant woman to ride their horse, would also stop them from being around their horse on the ground, ie leading, doing chores etc?

I would let the instructor in that scenario. For a friend on MY horse if would be no as I know what he's like and I know no one else rides him so no one else knows him well, as I said.

Personally, I would offer to help with groundwork/any lifting etc before I would stop a pregnant woman riding my horse, as I feel that is more problematic.

 

[noodle_]

ive not read the entire thread and im assuming after 15 pages a fight has broken out lol



simple answer NO..........

if she came off on my horse idnever forgive myself

if she had her own horse however let her get on with it....but on mine...no....