would you let a pregnant friend ride your horse?

[Moomin1]

ive not read the entire thread and im assuming after 15 pages a fight has broken out lol



simple answer NO..........

if she came off on my horse idnever forgive myself

if she had her own horse however let her get on with it....but on mine...no....

I've honestly just tried to sit here and imagine a scenario where my horse throws a pregnant woman off, resulting in her losing her child. I'm trying to picture how I would feel. Guilty is not one of the feelings. UNLESS of course that person was a complete novice who had no idea what horses were capable of, or I had lied to her about my horse's temperament in some way in order to get her to ride. If she was fully aware of the risks associated with getting on a horse, and was fully aware of how my horse can behave, and she was of fully sound mind, then I'm afraid guilt wouldn't come into it for me. I would feel terribly sorry and bad for her, but no, she made that informed decision herself.

Now if I had ASKED her to ride for whatever reason, or persuaded her to, then that would be a whole different kettle of fish, and I would never forgive myself then..

 

[Patterdale]

So it's ok to stop someone from riding your horse because you are worried that you might be sued, but not because you feel some responsiblity for the foetus?

That's sad .

Isn't it?

It's not your choice either. It's the choice of the parents.

Wrong actually. If it were MY horse, it would be completely MY choice.

'Telling', as in the amount of people on here who do not think a pregnant woman is capable of rational and intelligent thought. It's her body, her baby and her decision, but apparently she needs other women telling her what she should do and what she shouldn't do presumably because they believe she's not capable of making that decision herself?

Of course pregnant women are capable of making rational decisions.
I am 34 weeks pregnant and I'd like to think my mind hasn't turned to mush.

But the point is - no ones saying they CAN'T ride, just that they wouldn't be happy for them to ride THEIR horse.
This is because it brings the horse owner into the decision making/potential for guilt process.

If the woman owned her own horse and decided to ride it, great. I'm not riding personally as my horse was just backed when I got pregnant. But I have lots of friends with suitable horses who HAVE ridden and been absolutely fine. Their horse, their body, their choice.

By giving permission for them to ride your horse, you are enabling them to do a high risk activity which they would not otherwise have been able to access. This is where the feeling of responsibility would come into it for me.

Nothing to do with HER feelings, more to do with my feelings of responsibility for the situation. If she had her own horse, then it would be her choice. If she was asking to ride my horse, then it would be my choice.

I don't see what's so objectionable about this?

 

[Moomin1]

Isn't it?



Wrong actually. If it were MY horse, it would be completely MY choice.



Of course pregnant women are capable of making rational decisions.
I am 34 weeks pregnant and I'd like to think my mind hasn't turned to mush.

But the point is - no ones saying they CAN'T ride, just that they wouldn't be happy for them to ride THEIR horse.
This is because it brings the horse owner into the decision making/potential for guilt process.

If the woman owned her own horse and decided to ride it, great. I'm not riding personally as my horse was just backed when I got pregnant. But I have lots of friends with suitable horses who HAVE ridden and been absolutely fine. Their horse, their body, their choice.

By giving permission for them to ride your horse, you are enabling them to do a high risk activity which they would not otherwise have been able to access. This is where the feeling of responsibility would come into it for me.

Nothing to do with HER feelings, more to do with my feelings of responsibility for the situation. If she had her own horse, then it would be her choice. If she was asking to ride my horse, then it would be my choice.

I don't see what's so objectionable about this?

Wrong actually. It is YOUR choice who to allow riding your horse. It is not YOUR choice what risks that woman takes with HER unborn child. That brings me back to my repeated comments about it being an owner's choice what they do with their horse, but IMO it is superseding a woman's decision to take that risk if you make that decision PURELY because she is pregnant, and not due to her general ability or the horse's temperament coupled with it...

ETA, the only responsibility I have with regards people riding my horse, is to ensure that I make a judgement on whether that person is capable of handling and riding my horse enough to get on, and whether they are fully aware of the possible risks associated with getting on my mare, and that they are sure that they want to take those risks. It is not my responsibility to ensure that by them then getting on my horse, it doesn't then cause them any further problems linked with their health state. That is down to them..

 

[noodle_]

I've honestly just tried to sit here and imagine a scenario where my horse throws a pregnant woman off, resulting in her losing her child. I'm trying to picture how I would feel. Guilty is not one of the feelings. UNLESS of course that person was a complete novice who had no idea what horses were capable of, or I had lied to her about my horse's temperament in some way in order to get her to ride. If she was fully aware of the risks associated with getting on a horse, and was fully aware of how my horse can behave, and she was of fully sound mind, then I'm afraid guilt wouldn't come into it for me. I would feel terribly sorry and bad for her, but no, she made that informed decision herself.

Now if I had ASKED her to ride for whatever reason, or persuaded her to, then that would be a whole different kettle of fish, and I would never forgive myself then..

my horse lobbed someone off once. almost broke her neck the way she landed [bronked her over a wall and seating bank was horrific].... a week before she had seen the horse deck me in the same manor and knock me out, i stopped breathing and dont remember a thing...

she knew the risks when getting on the horse. If she HAD broke her neck god knows i would have never forgiven myself. Things were strained after wards anyhow

point is - since then, I wouldnt let any people I cared about ride in more risky circumstances as is...riding is risky anyhow and i sure as hell wouldnt let a pregnant woman ride my horse -

i feel guilty... dosent change my mind whether you [or anyone else] dosent agree....

so still no - she wouldnt be riding my horse.


ets - it isnt a horse i own now...thank god...

 

[SadKen]

100% this.

A scenario. A friend/riding instructor etc has ridden a particular horse for the past nine years, let's say. They are very competent, experienced, and in all honesty more so than yourself. That person then tells you (those who would refuse a pregnant person riding their horse), tomorrow, that they are ten weeks pregnant, however they say they wish to continue riding your horse, having discussed it in depth with their partner, the father of the child. By someone saying that they are no longer entitled to ride that horse, they ARE superseding that woman's choice over her unborn baby, simply because you know that they are more than capable of riding that horse, which they have known inside out for nine years. Therefore you are making a decision PURELY on the fact she is pregnant. Not because you are worried she may not handle the horse, or she doesn't know the full dangers of the situation (ie if it was just a friend asking for a sit on the horse one day).

If it was an instructor who I was paying, I'd be more inclined to allow riding to continue as there is a professional relationship and the instructor is entitled to carry on doing her job if she wishes to. If a friend, I still think I'd say no. Not because the person can't handle the horse but because there is always a chance that the horse could act unpredictably; the risk is to a friendship, not a professional relationship. If you feel guilty following an accident and miscarriage, you can ultimately end a professional relationship if it makes you uncomfortable. If it's a friendship you can do this but it would be very difficult, hence the risk is not worth it.

Those of you who have kids or are expecting, can you be sure that nothing would change between you if you fell from a friend's horse and lost a baby? I can't say, so that's a genuine question.

 

[Moomin1]

If it was an instructor who I was paying, I'd be more inclined to allow riding to continue as there is a professional relationship and the instructor is entitled to carry on doing her job if she wishes to. If a friend, I still think I'd say no. Not because the person can't handle the horse but because there is always a chance that the horse could act unpredictably; the risk is to a friendship, not a professional relationship. If you feel guilty following an accident and miscarriage, you can ultimately end a professional relationship if it makes you uncomfortable. If it's a friendship you can do this but it would be very difficult, hence the risk is not worth it.

Those of you who have kids or are expecting, can you be sure that nothing would change between you if you fell from a friend's horse and lost a baby? I can't say, so that's a genuine question.

Yes, I can be completely sure. If that person made me fully aware of what that horse was capable of to the best of their knowledge prior to me getting on, then that decision was one taken by me.

 

[Patterdale]

I give up, it would seem that some people simply want to argue for the sake of it. So crack on.

Anyone who feels they want to can ride my horse, newborns, 90 year olds, people recovering from major surgery, anyone. Clearly it has nothing to do with me, and God forbid I offend anyone by daring to voice an opinion on what they want to do with MY horse :rolleyes3:

They can come and help lamb a few rotten ewes too if they want to. I know they're MY sheep and all, and yeah I'm aware of the risks of zoonotic abortion, but hey, if she wants to come into MY shed with MY sheep, who the hell am I to have a say in it?

(Oh, unless I thought she might sue me. She'd be out the gate then before her feet touched the floor, obvs)

:rolleyes3:

Once again, if a woman wants to ride HER horse, or HER motorbike, or go cheese rolling in HER hill, or smoke 100 of HER cigarettes, or have a honk on HER crack pipe, then good luck to her.
She wants my permission and help? Sorry, but I'd decline.

(And no, before anyone starts, I'm not equating riding to smoking crack)

 

[JFTDWS]

(And no, before anyone starts, I'm not equating riding to smoking crack)

Don't be ridiculous. Riding is way more dangerous

I'm absolutely pro choice. Choice of owner, who may not wish to be liable, and choice of pregnant person, if it's their horse.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Isn't this about a woman's right to choose ?
Are people concerned about the unborn child or simply because she wants the child and you're afraid of being blamed ?

If your motive is to protect the unborn child, would you then agree to let the woman ride your horse if she was booked in for an abortion ?

Or even, would you express an opinion if she decided to have an abortion because she didn't want the baby ? Or would that be entirely her choice ?

Are some unborn babies more deserving of protection when you preceive the risk as unacceptable, contrary the mother's judgement ?

Is this this about control ?

 

[khalswitz]

Isn't this about a woman's right to choose ?
Are people concerned about the unborn child or simply because she wants the child and you're afraid of being blamed ?

If your motive is to protect the unborn child, would you then agree to let the woman ride your horse if she was booked in for an abortion ?

Or even, would you express an opinion if she decided to have an abortion because she didn't want the baby ? Or would that be entirely her choice ?

Are some unborn babies more deserving of protection when you preceive the risk as unacceptable, contrary the mother's judgement ?

Is this this about control ?

If she was booked in for an abortion, she could ride my horse. Because then there's not the same risk factor.

 

[Dizzle]

It’s about the basic human emotion of guilt.

My parents didn’t want me to have a glass of champagne at celebrations earlier this year, why? Because my mother was told to avoid alcohol when she was pregnant due to the fact she had suffered 4 miscarriages. Did I stamp my feet and tell her she was infringing on my human rights? No, I respected their decision, it hasn’t stopped me drinking a small glass of wine once a week at home but out of respect to my parents, I don’t have a tipple in front of them.

 

[Patterdale]

Don't be ridiculous. Riding is way more dangerous .

But crack's probably cheaper and less antisocial.....

Isn't this about a woman's right to choose ?
would that be entirely her choice ?

Yes, totally.
She can choose to get her own horse if someone else doesn't want her to ride theirs.

Is this this about control ?

Yes. Control over who rides your own horse. NOT control over what a pregnant lady does with her own time, money and possessions.

I don't see what is unreasonable about this?

As for the abortion statement, no, I wouldn't comment on it as it would be none of my business.
If she wanted to have it in my living room however, then I would be perfectly within my rights to decline.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

If she was booked in for an abortion, she could ride my horse. Because then there's not the same risk factor.

So concern for the unborn child and for the woman, who could still potentially have an accident ceases to be important ?

Are you only concerned because the woman wants the baby and not for the baby itself ?

I do not understand why you accept her decision to have or not have the child, and yet not to make a choice on what she does with her own body in riding your horse ?

 

[Patterdale]

If she was booked in for an abortion, she could ride my horse. Because then there's not the same risk factor.

I disagree here. It's still a life.
If I'd booked in to have my dog put down I still wouldn't let him play out on the motorway.

And there's still the chance she may change her mind.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

But crack's probably cheaper and less antisocial.....



Yes, totally.
She can choose to get her own horse if someone else doesn't want her to ride theirs.




Yes. Control over who rides your own horse. NOT control over what a pregnant lady does with her own time, money and possessions.

I don't see what is unreasonable about this?

As for the abortion statement, no, I wouldn't comment on it as it would be none of my business.
If she wanted to have it in my living room however, then I would be perfectly within my rights to decline.

So if it is her choice to have an abortion, you no longer wish to protect the baby. You say its none of your business.
But if , for arguments sake, you let the woman ride your horse but then take away permission when she becomes pregnant, you are being discriminatory. You no longer allow her to make her own decision because she is pregnant.

 

[bluedanube]

No. But If someone whishes to ride when pregnant then that's upto them. But I don't wish to have the decision landed on me for them to turn around and then blame me if something happened and they lost the baby.

 

[Fides]

My view is - it's my horse, my decision. Just as it is her baby and her decision - she can ride a horse, just not mine.

I think it all comes down to risk and control - yes it is risky to drive a car, but you are in control of the car. Horse riding is a high risk sport (hence it not coming under insurance cover on holidays) and we are not actually in control of our 'vehicle'. We like to think we are, but really we are not. Anything could happen that could spook the horse and even just a could of steps to one side could unbalance someone.

And pregnant women do have a disturbed centre of gravity, particularly later in pregnancy so balance would be effected differently. Due to the nature of pregnancy this means their balance won't be the same. Earlier in pregnancy of course this isn't an issue.

But then you have the issue of who is protecting the baby from this risk if the mother isn't. As someone said earlier - it is enabling someone to act in a risky manner. If they choose to ride that is their choice, but if I don't want to enable a risky behaviour I will not let them ride my horse.

There is a lot said on this thread about the mother's rights, but what about the baby's rights?

Then there is the thing no one has mentioned yet - those pregnant women who ride later on in pregnancy, do you take the additional (and sometimes quite significant) weight into account? Is carrying the additional weight (at say 7 months) fair on the horse? I stopped riding my mare whilst I was dieting after I put a stone and a half on - this took me over 10 stone which is the mental limit I set for my 14h2 mare. I didn't think carrying more weight was fair on her.

Er, why I earth wouldn't you give the an alcoholic drink? It's not illegal or even dangerous for a pregnant woman to have a drink!.

I'm incredulous at this post. Foetal alcohol syndrome is a very real condition resulting in physical and mental issues for the affected child.

Typical facial features

The brain of a baby affected

It is a very real and devestating condition.

Isn't this about a woman's right to choose ?
Are people concerned about the unborn child or simply because she wants the child and you're afraid of being blamed ?

If your motive is to protect the unborn child, would you then agree to let the woman ride your horse if she was booked in for an abortion ?

Or even, would you express an opinion if she decided to have an abortion because she didn't want the baby ? Or would that be entirely her choice ?

Are some unborn babies more deserving of protection when you preceive the risk as unacceptable, contrary the mother's judgement ?

Is this this about control ?

This isn't the question raised though is it? I feel this is a highly emotive and argumentative post for the sake of it and is offering nothing to the thread.

ETA - discriminating against someone because they are pregnant by not letting them ride you horse - that's one huge stretch!

 

[khalswitz]

So concern for the unborn child and for the woman, who could still potentially have an accident ceases to be important ?

Are you only concerned because the woman wants the baby and not for the baby itself ?

I do not understand why you accept her decision to have or not have the child, and yet not to make a choice on what she does with her own body in riding your horse ?

Because my reasoning for not allowing her on my horse wasn't due to MY concern for the unborn child - it's her child, her right to do as she pleases - but because I don't want to be blamed for an accident where she might lose it, and turn her understandable emotional anguish on me. If she didn't want it, and that risk of her blaming me wasn't there, then sure, she could ride it.

ETA - Yes, this makes me look very selfish, but my belief is that it is up to her to decide on risk factors for herself and her baby, not me - but that I don't want to be implicated if something does happen, from both a legal or emotional point of view. If I knew that my friend was aborting her baby, then, like has been said, she's not ill, and if she has no concern for it's safety then why should I?

 

[Patterdale]

I'm not going to argue for the sake of it. This is silly.

If she wants to ride HER horse, go for it.
If she wants to ride MINE, sorry, but no.

It's MY choice who rides MY horse, not hers.
If people were saying they would lecture and drag a pregnant woman off a horse if she was seen riding, then I could understand the hostility.

But no one is.

Pregnant women are free to make their own choices. They're also free to make their own arrangements for these choices.

That's. It.

 

[OldNag]

I'm not going to argue for the sake of it. This is silly.

If she wants to ride HER horse, go for it.
If she wants to ride MINE, sorry, but no.

It's MY choice who rides MY horse, not hers.
If people were saying they would lecture and drag a pregnant woman off a horse if she was seen riding, then I could understand the hostility.

But no one is.

Pregnant women are free to make their own choices. They're also free to make their own arrangements for these choices.

That's. It.

^^^ This. 100%.

 

[Moomin1]

It’s about the basic human emotion of guilt.

My parents didn’t want me to have a glass of champagne at celebrations earlier this year, why? Because my mother was told to avoid alcohol when she was pregnant due to the fact she had suffered 4 miscarriages. Did I stamp my feet and tell her she was infringing on my human rights? No, I respected their decision, it hasn’t stopped me drinking a small glass of wine once a week at home but out of respect to my parents, I don’t have a tipple in front of them.

I'm afraid your parents would have been told that unfortunately, whether I have a glass of champagne or not is not their choice, though I respect their decision that THEY didn't choose to have a drink during pregnancy.

 

[Moomin1]

My view is - it's my horse, my decision. Just as it is her baby and her decision - she can ride a horse, just not mine.

I think it all comes down to risk and control - yes it is risky to drive a car, but you are in control of the car. Horse riding is a high risk sport (hence it not coming under insurance cover on holidays) and we are not actually in control of our 'vehicle'. We like to think we are, but really we are not. Anything could happen that could spook the horse and even just a could of steps to one side could unbalance someone.

And pregnant women do have a disturbed centre of gravity, particularly later in pregnancy so balance would be effected differently. Due to the nature of pregnancy this means their balance won't be the same. Earlier in pregnancy of course this isn't an issue.

But then you have the issue of who is protecting the baby from this risk if the mother isn't. As someone said earlier - it is enabling someone to act in a risky manner. If they choose to ride that is their choice, but if I don't want to enable a risky behaviour I will not let them ride my horse.

There is a lot said on this thread about the mother's rights, but what about the baby's rights?

Then there is the thing no one has mentioned yet - those pregnant women who ride later on in pregnancy, do you take the additional (and sometimes quite significant) weight into account? Is carrying the additional weight (at say 7 months) fair on the horse? I stopped riding my mare whilst I was dieting after I put a stone and a half on - this took me over 10 stone which is the mental limit I set for my 14h2 mare. I didn't think carrying more weight was fair on her.



I'm incredulous at this post. Foetal alcohol syndrome is a very real condition resulting in physical and mental issues for the affected child.

Typical facial features

The brain of a baby affected

It is a very real and devestating condition.



This isn't the question raised though is it? I feel this is a highly emotive and argumentative post for the sake of it and is offering nothing to the thread.

ETA - discriminating against someone because they are pregnant by not letting them ride you horse - that's one huge stretch!

One glass of wine does not cause FAS. We are talking prolonged high levels of alcohol consumption.

With regard weight gain - that would be a perfectly valid and understandable reason for stopping a pregnant women from riding a horse IMO.

 

[Fides]

One glass of wine does not cause FAS. We are talking prolonged high levels of alcohol

My response stating about FAS was after a poster stated it doesn't cause harm. Hence me saying I was incredulous. Moderate alcohol consumption can cause FAS - where do you draw the line? I for one, would not drink when pregnant.

 

[Spring Feather]

So what I've gleaned from this thread is that many people are selfish. They are making these decisions based on how it will affect *themselves*. Okay, fair enough; not my stance but I guess that's an acceptable viewpoint.

 

[2horsesnomoney]

Well this is a difficult thread and having read ALL of the pages it is clear we all have very diff opinions. None are right or wrong though they are personal opinions. I am 28 weeks pregnant and still ride my quiet horse but dont ride anyone elses - personal choice. I have had friends "have a go at me" because i am riding and what the hell did i think i was doing! but i t is my and my OHs choice we discussed it, I will ride until I decide to stop. Equally i have not been in the situation where some one else asks to ride my horse while pregnant - my horse is mostly quiet and easy. So I dont really know what i would do.

 

[Daytona]

My response stating about FAS was after a poster stated it doesn't cause harm. Hence me saying I was incredulous. Moderate alcohol consumption can cause FAS - where do you draw the line? I for one, would not drink when pregnant.

100% agree with this I'd not touch a drop , I was informed that even one instant of getting drunk could harm a growing baby.

Id not drink, I won't smoke, I don't ride my horse nor do I ride my motorcycle all things I see as a pleasure and all things that could potential harm my unborn baby. I put my baby before my own needs and do not indulge myself in any of these activities while I'm pregnant. They all carry a risk, a risk I can eliminate so I do.

 

[khalswitz]

So what I've gleaned from this thread is that many people are selfish. They are making these decisions based on how it will affect *themselves*. Okay, fair enough; not my stance but I guess that's an acceptable viewpoint.

Well, I don't have any right to tell a pregnant friend what she should or should not do. So the only way I have of differentiating is to see how it would affect me, and whether or not I'm liable. She's not a child to be told what to do because I think she should or shouldn't ride. But whether it affects me or not makes it a different matter - and not just because it's ME but because it is affecting other people than herself and her OH.

 

[Ibblebibble]

So what I've gleaned from this thread is that many people are selfish. They are making these decisions based on how it will affect *themselves*. Okay, fair enough; not my stance but I guess that's an acceptable viewpoint.

of course we make decisions based on how things will affect us personally, be a bit odd not too!! i make most of my decisions based on self preservation, that may be physical, mental or even perceived self-preservation, is it being selfish or sensible. i think sensible. Or should i ignore my own feelings and views because otherwise someone may think it's selfish?!
As an aside,my novice pregnant friend has decided (with her OH) that it is not a risk they wish to take so she won't be coming to the yard any more.

 

[Spring Feather]

of course we make decisions based on how things will affect us personally, be a bit odd not too!! i make most of my decisions based on self preservation, that may be physical, mental or even perceived self-preservation, is it being selfish or sensible. i think sensible. Or should i ignore my own feelings and views because otherwise someone may think it's selfish?!

When you make decisions for someone else, irrespective of their decision, and based solely on how it will affect you, that's selfish (selfish = (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.) I get it, I really do. I'm just not like that, so yes as you say perhaps I am rather odd in that I believe any grown adult can make their own decisions. I'd like to think not but based on this thread, you are most likely right in that pregnant women do appear to require other people making decisions for them, but definitely not for altruistic reasons.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Haven't had a chance to read all so apologies if I'm repeating what others have already said. Personally I think if the friend had her own horse then it would 100% be down to her when she decided to stop riding during pregnancy, but I wouldn't feel comfortable letting her ride my horse just in case she had a fall as whilst there's always risks associated with riding and horses will be horses I would forever feel morally responsible if something happened to her or the unborn child.