WWYD? Feeling deflated

So sorry :( such a sadness that he wont be able to have a longer retirement but you've done all the right things and been a wonderful owner for him x
 
As someone who has recently had to make this decision for similar reasons my advice would be listen to your horse. You can take advice from all the vets & other professionals (& other liveries if you like) in the world but you know your own horse better than any of them. The "right" decision / time is different for each individual horse & it is you who has to make that decision for him. Is he currently leading an enjoyable life that's "worth living" or is he merely existing? Are things likely to improve or get worse in the long term?

I chose to let my boy go last week. He'd had issues with his feet for many years that were massively helped by going barefoot but still required careful management to keep him sound. He'd always been sensitive to grass & was then diagnosed with Cushings maybe 3 years ago & although meds helped for a while he slowly became less & less tolerant of grass in the growing season to the point he couldn't really tolerate it at all. (I moved him to a livery an hour from me so he could live a full life on a track at the times of year when he couldn't go on grass) He also had ulcers start of last year & raised liver enzymes at end of last year causing dullness & weight loss. He still wasn't right even when these started improving (but never came totally back to normal) & also appeared to be having issues with urinating normally & after several visits from a specialist osteo/vet as well as physio & his behaviour deteriorating at one point to the stage where anything (even a headcollar strap) touching near his poll caused him to rear (thankfully this did improve after an osteo visit in the Spring & religious use of a poll pad at all times on a loose fitting halter). I had his head CT scanned & imaging done most of the way along his back & neck & sadly he had arthritis in just about every neck joint plus a few places in his back as well as some new bone formation near his poll & arthritis in his jaw. There were realistically too many joints involved for steroids to be a sensible option (would have needed to be done in stages due to his other issues & obv would have risked setting his laminitis off) plus he hated vets to the point they couldn't catch him in the stable (I had to do it). They would have done it if I'd asked but I didn't feel it was appropriate for this particular horse. Tried him on danilon which he was kept on until he was PTS (risking angering his liver which still wasn't totally fixed) but although a little better he still wasn't "right" & kept laming himself by trying to run around being silly when his body couldn't cope with doing that anymore. His feet were also not great (I don't think repeated sedations combined with stress, his liver & lack of work helped them). My vet & the physio agreed that he was already in some discomfort & realistically he was only going to get worse over time. (I was also concerned about the implications of trying to mange so many conditions together & feared that rather than a gradual decline it would be a sudden fall off a cliff as I felt that if one thing got any worse it would likely start a bit of a chain reaction with everything else). I chose to let him go whilst he was still having a relatively decent life & wasn't in horrific amounts of pain. Some people would have let him go on longer whilst he was still relatively happy but I didn't want to just sit there & watch him get worse knowing that there was no possible good ending. As somebody else said it's the lat kind thing we can do for them
 
So sorry that you are going through this. I lost my last horse to neck arthritis many years ago and it's sounds very similar. He made the decision for me when he couldn't eat comfortably and was withdrawn. He's a lucky horse as you will do right by him and have tried your best.
 
Boulty said:
As someone who has recently had to make this decision for similar reasons my advice would be listen to your horse. You can take advice from all the vets & other professionals (& other liveries if you like) in the world but you know your own horse better than any of them. The "right" decision / time is different for each individual horse & it is you who has to make that decision for him. Is he currently leading an enjoyable life that's "worth living" or is he merely existing? Are things likely to improve or get worse in the long term?
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Thank you everyone for your replies.

Some days hes happy, some days not. I may try some bute for a couple of weeks and decide then. I've got a lot going at the moment in general (non horse related) so don't want to make any rash decisions straight away.

My vet also believes he quite possibly has cushings, even though hes only just 10 he displays quite a few symptoms. We treated for PSSM but it made no difference.

Why is life so unfair? Hes such a loving, sweet pony whos had such a hard life before I owed him. :(
Thank you everyone xo
 
The vet thinks he is at pain even at grass. Is a Bute trial really appropriate? Given that in your original post you said it doesn't help.
 
As your vet thinks that he must be in pain even at grass, i think the way forward is clear. I am sorry, it is never easy to make the pts decision but when the vet gives a clear diagnosis, as yours did, that makes it easier.
Thinking of you at this very difficult time.
 
Really sorry to hear this, but it sounds like you've exhausted every other option and nobody can say you haven't done right by him!y
Try stay strong and whatever happens, cherish all the wonderful memories xx

Just a thought, have you tried Inflacalm as a pain killer? It is more expensive than Bute but can be a lot more effective, that is obviously if you haven't made the decision just yet.
 
Peter7917 said:
The vet thinks he is at pain even at grass. Is a Bute trial really appropriate? Given that in your original post you said it doesn't help.
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I spoke to the specialist today who medicated his neck in the beginning and has travelled the world doing the same.
He said the shoulder movement is most probably due to he has muscle atrophy, related to the nerves compressing (not to sure, very complicated vet talk) and not supporting the shoulder. The specialist also showed the video to another specialist who agreed and he said he was sorry.

He said we can’t re inject again, it won’t even last 3 months and in all honesty we can’t do anything. We could CT but it will probably show exactly what he thinks. It is most probably a deformity in the neck causing the arthritis and his fetlocks are also deformed so makes sense.

I asked his opinion on his quality of life, he said he would try 2 bute a day then 1 bute a day after a week to see how he goes. (Never given bute while he’s been at grass, only when ridden and that didn’t help) He was honest and said sometimes they can be retired for 2-4 years but at the end they struggle to do anything and I personally wouldn’t let him get like that. According to him some owners do, that’s cruel.
If he can have a enjoyable week while on bute, eating nice grass, lots of treats and looking happy before he goes I know he went happy.
 
I honestly don't think most owners would push him through it.
Sweating and puffing can be direct results of pain, I could not bring myself to knowingly exercise a horse that was in pain.
Retiring a horse that is on a bald paddock, overweight and footy whilst still working is not realistic, you can't starve him and give him a good quality of life and if his pain cannot be managed you can't give a good quality of life either.
You don't owe anything to the other people on the yard but you owe your horse as pain free and ending as you can give.
I am another that would PTS I find it impossible to watch them waste away knowing that the unfurling can be prevented.
 
Sorry to read your update. I had a similar situation to Boulty, with my oldie becoming less and less grass tolerant. I let him go last month, at the first signs of him being uncomfortable (when we had all that rainy weather with intermittent sunny spells). He'd been retired since Christmas. I could have managed him on a postage stamp of grazing for a little longer, I guess, but that's not much of a retirement and I wasn't prepared to come up one day and deal with it as an emergency, so chose to let him go looking perky and stuffing his face. I miss him terribly, but never for a moment have I regretted it and the relief was immense. I would give the bute until the day he's pts. I actually dwelled on the decision to pts over a few days, then made a snap decision one morning and it was all done by 11:30 am. He was happy as larry that morning and went stuffing his face on rich grass, something he hadn't been allowed to do for a while.
 
I am so so sorry, It sounds like your Horse is telling you it is time. It is heartbreaking to say goodbye, but often the hardest decision is the right one to make.

I had my Horse of a lifetime PTS in November, I retired her age 12 due to arthritis and I couldn't keep her sound. She had a year in the field retired, then she started to show signs she was unhappy. It was the worst decision I have ever had to make, I felt guilty. But once she was PTS the relief I felt was huge. Because I knew that she was now pain free and peaceful and it was the last thing I could do for her (i owed her so so much) I don't regret the decision, but I do miss her like crazy. But it was 100% the right decision.

In your shoes, I'd book PTS for Monday. I'd spoil him all weekend and then on Monday morning turn him out in the nicest field you have access too and let him scoff his face with and give him all his favourite treats.

You have done all you can for him, and I fear he will still be in pain even on the bute, as that simply masks some of the pain.
 
To follow on from my lengthy post, as we are a month on from the last.

He had bute for that week, when he was really unhappy and I decided if he was still the same way a week after, I'd make that hard decision. I even called the lady who does it and she said she could visit the same day if I decided it was time. Well after a week off bute, he was calling, squealing and cantering around the paddock himself. It was almost like he wasn't ready to go.

Hes been happy in himself, bucking, farting, playing with my other horse. He runs over to call and has really perked up, even a month on from when he had any bute last.
Hes not fed anything now, just at grass and occasionally comes in. I said I'd give him summer if possible before I said goodbye, but the last time I posted he really didn't seem happy.

The specialist called again and explained it would deteriorate in stages, he'll probably stay at this stage for so long now and then drop down a stage again but can never be sure when. He said if hes acting like that, he must be feeling happy and theres no way of telling if they're in pain exactly.
I don't know if the warm weather has helped but know soon we'll be into winter.

Issue is, If hes like this going into winter I don't know if to call it a day or keep him throughout winter. He honestly seems happy and letting him go while he seems like this seems wrong? Typical non horsey boyfriend has said I can't let him go while hes so full of life.. which is true really. In winter things get more difficult as he'll have to stable which does him no good as he does get slightly stiff.

I am so torn, playing it by ear at the moment. Will I know when its time?
Currently I really don't think hes ready to go, he has a sparkle in his eye. Call me cruel, stupid? I know him well and he generally seems like hes enjoying life, surely if he hurt he wouldn't be acting like this? Ergh, I don't know. I don't want to be that cruel owner hanging on to life, but as other liveries have said when riding past, he seems so full of life at the moment. He still has the shoulder clunk, but it doesn't seem to stop him hammering around, squealing and initiating play with my other horse.

It may help he has 2 new girlfriends in the paddock next door, he regularly stands their flirting, with willy on full show!
 
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TBH I don't think there's a wrong time, as in - too soon. There's definitely a wrong time as in too late though.

It would be harder on you if you let him go while he was feeling pretty well, but he won't know anything about it, he won't have what ifs, or regrets. He will just have a peaceful end.

I can kind of relate to this, because one of my oldies had a bit of an iffy period a few weeks ago where I thought her duff legs were catching up with her. I decided not to bute but to just watch and wait for a few days as it was an intermittent thing but was ready to make the phone call, as it happens she's back to normal now so it would have been premature with hindsight... but it wouldn't have been wrong at the time either.

All you can do is make your best judgement. Try not to be swayed by people who don't understand his condition, consult your vet when you need to and take their guidance. How are you set up for winter, will he be able to stay out etc like he is now?
 
The day before my Horse was due to be PTS she too had a spark in her eyes and was galloping around, bucking and farting. I very very almost called the whole thing off. But then I really sat and thought about it. Did I want to let her get to the point that she was in loads of pain, did I really want that to be her last memories, of being miserable and in loads of pain, I was frightened that I would go up and find her laying down, unable to get up and I could not do that to her. She meant to much to me.

Please remember the below:

The Horse has no concept of time
The Horse has no concept of when they will die
A day too early is better then a day too late

Unfortunately your Horse has a condition that will worsen in time, it is only a matter of time before you end up having to make that decision. Your Horse will have good and bad days, but please do not let him have more bad days then good as that is not fair. I understand how hard this is. But the Horses Quality of live has to come first.
 
Thank you both @milliepops and @LaurenBay for your replies, really appreciate your honesty and LaurenBay that is completely true and need to think of those 3 points.

milliepops said:
How are you set up for winter, will he be able to stay out etc like he is now?
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We are on a livery yard with our own paddocks, I say paddocks but its pretty huge. Both currently in my summer field with the fence being moved daily so they aren't starving but he is still fat. In winter they'll go into the winter field, big field full of grass so now giving hes retired i'll have to section it off or he'll get obese. They can stay out 24/7, field has natural trees for shelter (although we are at the top of a hill, so not great being cold and very windy) but all the others come in and he'll have no 'friends' and will have a absolute head fit if I leave him on his own. If I bring him in, he doesn't mind but has increasing got jealous over me paying more attention to my other one.
My other gelding comes in at night as he isn't a great doer for what he is and I ride really early before work in winter so it works out well. Saying that, I usually try and leave them out at night until end of November.
Hes always been clipped right out and rugged heavily, never had him unclipped or left in winter.

I have looked into retirement yards, just herds kept out 24/7 but it is more expensive than what I am paying now.
 
I had remembered your winter situation as being something like that.
If he carries on as he is at the moment, and you don't want to let him go at the end of summer, I think I'd be monitoring him very closely when you change to the winter routine. If he gets upset being left out or struggles from being in then I think I'd have to accept that the circumstances would dictate your decision. x
 
It's very hard on you but I'd let him go while he is happy. I wouldn't want him to be overun with pain for one more day.
 
I have often seen people write 'more good days than bad' (not referring to anyone on this thread) as if it is OK to keep a horse alive as long as it is, for example, fine for five days a week but not fine for the other two.

Personally, I could not keep a horse alive that is routinely having bad days, even if they are outnumbered by the good ones. On a bad day, the horse has no understanding that tomorrow might be better, it's just a bad day with no promise of any respite.


It is hard, but I would not put a horse with his combination of issues through a winter, sorry.
.
 
It's desperately difficult when you have to look at a horse that still has some spark. If you are anywhere near me (south Manchester) and a completely dispassionate opinion will help you, please PM me and I'll be there.

.
 
have read all of this thread and really feel for you. with this situation PTS is likely to be sooner rather than later. i would ignore the other liveries and PTS before the winter starts/you bring your other horse in as he will be distressed being out on his own (as you have said)...i had retired my cushings mare after the winter of 2015 and kept her exactly the same apart from not riding her, i had her blood tested in march and her levels were rising quite dramatically even though she was on 4 prascend daily. one day in sept 2016 (after being retired for 6 months) she was a bit pottery in front, i got the vet immediately and she said she was borderline laminitic, and agreed with me that PTS was the best option,she was 25 and also a bit arthritic i arranged the day and buted her for her last few days, i have never regretted my decision but i would have been devastated if she had got full blown laminitis because i wanted to keep her here., better to do ot before he is suffering any more IMO, but it isnt and easy decision. good luck...
 
Thank you all. I explained to my other half, who is very fond of my gelding. He doesn't quite get it as he looks ok in the field, he trotted over to us yesterday, with his head in his lap. I explained a normal horse wouldn't get a clunking shoulder from being retired, due to muscle atrophy and it shows how severe his neck is. He said he doesn't look in pain, but they don't always. Hes always hidden pain, even before diagnosis. I explained the 3 bullet points LaurenBay posted,

LaurenBay said:
The Horse has no concept of time
The Horse has no concept of when they will die
A day too early is better then a day too late
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I think he understands more now.

This may sound crude but want to know your opinions as its on my mind.
Both of my horses, as sad as it may sound, are best friends, they've lived together for 5 years I know my other one really won't take it well but I know he'll adjust gradually as he did when we went to camp this year for 3 days.

When the time comes. Do I leave my other one out on his own? Although he may have a fit for the first 10 minutes or do I bring him in as well? My field is quite a walk away but stables overlook the car park and yard where 'it' will happen so unsure how I feel about him witnessing it.
I want my other gelding to have closure and not keep looking for him in the future. Does it help if they see the body?
 
I think you are making the right decision. Believe me I understand how you feel, I was second guessing myself every second, cried every night and felt guilty when I looked at her. But she went peacefully and the relief I felt after was huge. I don't regret making that decision for her. She wouldn't have coped in the winter and I didn't want to be in any more pain. As owners it is the last act of kindness we can show them, we can let them go in a pain free and dignified way. The Horse won't know what is about to happen, there will be no fear or pain for him.

If they are very good friends, then I would have them in together, but ask someone to hold your other Horse nearby. So that he can see what is happening and will understand his friend has gone. Separating the 2 could be stressful for both. When I have held other people Horses for them, other Horses have witnessed it, none were stressed by it. I'd let him see the body after and then I'd lead him away.

Will you be on your own? I would take your partner with you, you will need him after (plus I wouldn't drive after) my other advise is not to see the body being taken away after.

I am so sorry xx
 
I think you’ll know. My old girl was happy as anything the day before but that day she wasn’t and I just knew. I phoned the vet and she was gone within a couple of hours. You really don’t have to have a plan, I couldn’t have made the decision and then spent a week waiting, knowing what was to come. That would have been very hard. I did feel a slight sense of relief afterwards that it was done and I’d been brave enough to know when it was time.
 
LaurenBay said:
If they are very good friends, then I would have them in together, but ask someone to hold your other Horse nearby. So that he can see what is happening and will understand his friend has gone. Separating the 2 could be stressful for both. When I have held other people Horses for them, other Horses have witnessed it, none were stressed by it. I'd let him see the body after and then I'd lead him away.

Will you be on your own? I would take your partner with you, you will need him after (plus I wouldn't drive after) my other advise is not to see the body being taken away after.
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Difference is I will have mine shot. I witnessed a very bad injection happen with a friend, it was horrific and have always said my next horse will be shot. Its so quick and they feel nothing but I am worried my other gelding will be terrified.
 
I'd just let him have access to the body afterwards. Don't overthink it. It's really hard to detach your human feelings and understandings of what having a horse pts means from what your other horse will think about it. He will just see that his friend has gone. If he has other company and a normal routine then he will get over it, probably faster than you do.

If you don't want to show him the body then you don't have to, lots of people don't and their horses also adjust to the change with time.
 
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