WWYD - Tripping

Dyllymoo

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I know I have sort of asked before, but I can see a few options and if J was yours what would you do?

Bit of background - just turned 6 year old irish cob. bought last year, very green but good to hack. We have done mostly hacking, upping it the past 3 months . J has always "stumbled" over his own front feet, but he isn't particularly forward, can dawdle especially in company, and is very green and unbalanced. A few weeks ago in the schooling field we took a tumble in trot (he fell to both knees but got himself up), he wasn't going particularly forward and physio advised she thought it was just laziness on his part (Video below).

I am a big worrier, both of my previous 2 horses were bought and after a year/ 18 months showed medical issues that they had had a long time and both ended up being PTS after months/ years of rehab, so i'm starting to wonder if there is something more to this or if I am just being paranoid.

Last night we went out solo as I wanted to make a mental note of any trips and when they happened. He tripped 3 times (1st time he wasn't paying attention - slight downhill on the road more a stumble, 2nd time he felt like he forgot to pick his hoof up, 3rd time was on the road downhill and he felt like he kind of went over on his hoof (like he put it down toe first) and we nearly went down on the road. It was scary.). I've found some knee boots I'm hopefully buying, but I'm just so worried that it could be something sinister. The only issue I have is if I do get xrays (I'm assuming that's what I would need) of his feet, the insurance will pick up on this and do some exclusions which could hit me hard down the road? Even if I don't claim on the insurance I'm assuming they can exclude down the road?

I see my options as:

1) Go barefoot, keep an eye, make a log of any trips.

2) Stay shod, keep an eye, make a log of any trips.

3) Go to vet, get some xrays of feet and go from there?


So.… if he was yours, WWYD?

Video of his fall :(

Video
 

milliepops

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if he's stumbling over like that quite often then I think I'd be heading for a work up at the vets. yeah he looks half asleep in the video but it's more than just a little trip.

I think I'd pick up the phone to the vet, explain the tripping and see what they would want to do first. this is what your insurance is for, really.
 

Dyllymoo

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if he's stumbling over like that quite often then I think I'd be heading for a work up at the vets. yeah he looks half asleep in the video but it's more than just a little trip.

I think I'd pick up the phone to the vet, explain the tripping and see what they would want to do first. this is what your insurance is for, really.

Thank you. I did call the vet a week or so ago and he didn't seem fussed. Said they could come out and look at him, or I could take him to them. I mentioned xrays of his feet and he said "Yeah, could do".... Made me feel like maybe I shouldn't bother. Might try and call another vet possibly.
 

milliepops

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if he falls over like that frequently then he's going to end up injuring himself and maybe you as well. I think I'd either call again and explain why you are concerned, or try a different vet if they're giving you the brush off. I'm not sure if foot x rays are the right place to start or not, but I'd definitely want someone with a special interest in movement & lameness to be taking a look. have you got a specialist equine vets close by?
 

Dyllymoo

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if he falls over like that frequently then he's going to end up injuring himself and maybe you as well. I think I'd either call again and explain why you are concerned, or try a different vet if they're giving you the brush off. I'm not sure if foot x rays are the right place to start or not, but I'd definitely want someone with a special interest in movement & lameness to be taking a look. have you got a specialist equine vets close by?

We haven't got any specialists anymore I don't think. I will ask a few friends and see who they are with. Unfortunately both my vets and the other local one have been taken over by a big company and the vets I knew have all left.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Dyllymoo

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On your other thread, the photos show that he is being shod very short at the heels (no heel support).

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/thoughts-on-these-hooves.793044/page-2#post-14367400

I do think that the field in the video is very flat and the trip is bigger than I had expected from the terrain. He is not moving with any impulsion. I wouldn't be happy with leaving things as they are. There are definitely improvements that can be made RE his hooves.

Thank you. What sort of improvements? Sorry i'm such a dunce with things like this :( Currently getting myself worked up as friends are telling me to stop being so silly, he is fine.
 

Sandstone1

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He looks slightly lame to me. Possibly both front? Can you get video of him trotting up on a level surface? from in front and behind and side on. you can then have a good look and see if you can notice anything? You could also send it to the vet.
 

tatty_v

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I’d second milliepops and definitely get a specialist equine vet to look at him. I watched the video and the trip really took me by surprise as the field looks nice and flat with short grass and it seemed to come out of nowhere.

For what it’s worth my boy tripped and went down like that when I got back on post maternity leave. Vets diagnosed mild hock arthritis, we had the injections and haven’t had a problem since.

I hope you find out, it’s scary when that happens!
 

HashRouge

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Definitely vet. Regular tripping is not normal and could be a sign of a number of different things. For my mare it was arthritis in the coffin joint, but it could be something else. I certainly wouldn't want to do nothing, one or both of you could get seriously hurt.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Thank you. What sort of improvements? Sorry i'm such a dunce with things like this :( Currently getting myself worked up as friends are telling me to stop being so silly, he is fine.

I think I said on the other thread that I would essentially do a kind of 'barefoot rehab' with him. So shoes off, walk in-hand on smooth tarmac, progress to riding and so on. I would also keep photos of the changes to his hooves. I don't know if I would change farrier or not, that depends on if his hooves have got worse or better over the last few shoeings and I don't know the answer to that.

I would also do all the basic checks to rule out back pain, saddle fit, teeth issues etc... just in case something else is going on. ETA - yes, a vet check too.

In an ideal world I would also find a field with lots of varied terrain (including steep bits) and turn him out there with other horses for a year.
 

milliepops

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I agree that fall was a lot more significant than i was expecting from the description of tripping :(

i understand the reasons why the hooves are getting lots of attention after the other thread, however I think I'd feel uncomfortable launching down that route without also getting an *interested* vet involved first. they might be the root of it all or completely unrelated.
I think it's wheels that has just had to re-shoe her barefoot horse so that the vet investigations into something else can continue because the horse has sore feet (different situ but shows how sometimes you need all the professionals working together).

Dyllymoo I think you said your farrier was on your yard, did you get him to take a look yet?
 

Dyllymoo

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I agree that fall was a lot more significant than i was expecting from the description of tripping :(

i understand the reasons why the hooves are getting lots of attention after the other thread, however I think I'd feel uncomfortable launching down that route without also getting an *interested* vet involved first. they might be the root of it all or completely unrelated.
I think it's wheels that has just had to re-shoe her barefoot horse so that the vet investigations into something else can continue because the horse has sore feet (different situ but shows how sometimes you need all the professionals working together).

Dyllymoo I think you said your farrier was on your yard, did you get him to take a look yet?

:( I feel so sad, I didn't think I had underplayed the fall but I obviously have.

I have spoken with the farrier and he thinks he is lazy and would go barefoot so has said to leave him to grow more foot before we try. I haven't physically seen him on the yard for weeks so unfortunately haven't been able to just have a chat.
 

ForeverBroke_

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I think I would be taking him down for a work up/X-rays. He definitely didn't get ground clearance on either of his front feet before he goes down. Whilst hes not exactly 'forward,' he isn't dribbling along either, and for it to be quite regularly happening I would be concerned. Sorry :(
 

meleeka

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I think I would be taking him down for a work up/X-rays. He definitely didn't get ground clearance on either of his front feet before he goes down. Whilst hes not exactly 'forward,' he isn't dribbling along either, and for it to be quite regularly happening I would be concerned. Sorry :(
Me too. I think the lack of ground clearance is probably the issue, so you need to find out why. It doesn’t look to me as if it’s just a case of being lazy. It could literally be anything so I think a work up is in order. What’s he like in the field? Does he trip then? Does he ever trot/canter when he’s turned out?
 

Mrs. Jingle

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Can you ask around for a recommendation for a very horse savvy vet? Your present one sounds as good as useless to me. If that tripping is as seen on video and is happening regularly I would most definitely be getting a full lameness workup before I made any decision about shoe, not shoe or whatever.

I know you have asked for opinions from people what they would do, but random people on the internet cannot give you the answer based purely on a short video clip and no knowledge of your horse whatsoever.

Please source a really decent vet who is also happy to work in tandem with a good farrier and take it form there. Lovely cob by the way, crossing everything it isn't anything too serious.
 

BBP

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Things like this do my head in! (Not you, but your farrier and physio calling him lazy and your vet not being interested). Why is he lazy?! Generally because moving more actively is more uncomfortable. Whether that is feet, legs or body should be for them to figure out. Yes some horses are more laid back than others but it’s not in a horses interests to trip and fall, even a ‘lazy’ one. Although he is quite slow he lifts his legs clear of the ground (doesn’t toe drag like mine), it’s that last bit of break over where he should flip from pointy toe to heel first landing that seems slow.

I Think you are absolutely right to be trying to seek help. That’s not to say it’s anything serious at all, it could just be hoof balance not allowing for an easy break over, but don’t get hurt trying to push a tripping horse to be less lazy. I really hope you can find some professionals who are as interested in your horses well being as you are.
 

Meowy Catkin

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I do agree with you Mrs J. I always hope that this kind of thread helps people make a list of things that they can then discuss with their Vet. More of a pre-vet talk through to brainstorm ideas rather than an alternative to talking to professionals. Also sometimes coming on here has given people the incentive to get a second opinion when things aren't progressing with the first professional, which is also good.

I hope that makes sense. :)
 

Dyllymoo

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Me too. I think the lack of ground clearance is probably the issue, so you need to find out why. It doesn’t look to me as if it’s just a case of being lazy. It could literally be anything so I think a work up is in order. What’s he like in the field? Does he trip then? Does he ever trot/canter when he’s turned out?

He does trot and canter to play and to come and see me, but its not often. I have seen him trip in the field, but again not too often.
 

Dyllymoo

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Thank you all. Vet is booked for next Tuesday for a lameness/ orthopaedic exam. Earliest date they could do. They want me to keep him in work so I will probably ride and long rein in the school as now I'm paranoid he will go down again and hurt himself. At least in there would be more of a soft landing :( (note: he has only gone down once, but I understand that it could happen again)
 

holeymoley

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Crikey I wasn't expecting that! I thought you meant a few trips or slips. I was going to ask to see his hooves to see if he was shod incorrectly but after that video and at the age of 6, I'd get the vets involved. I'd have said it's schooling too, but he's not actually that bad.
 

Zuzzie

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I agree with BBP. He might not be the most forward going horse but he is not lazy to the extent of tripping as he did in the video. My horse has coffin joint arthritis - had it for years. He trips now and then (comes out of nowhere and sometimes quite violent) so he wears knee boots. I keep my reins short and ride him forward into the rein so that he does have to use himself. But my horse is 26 - not 6! Definitely needs to be looked at by an experienced vet. Good luck with him.
 
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