XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[JBM]

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/08/15/dog-attacks-on-adults-are-rising-but-science-shows-its-wrong-to-blame-breeds/amp/

 

[Clodagh]

Interesting. Did anyone, ever, choose an XL because its parents were calm and friendly? Not exactly how they are marketed.

 

[JBM]

Interesting.

I feel you’re trying to prove your point with that screenshot but to me it’s just pointing out if you breed two aggressive dogs you’ll get an aggressive puppy. Which isn’t breed specific as “dogs of the same breed vary wildly in their behaviour” so again it’s not a breed problem

 

[JBM]

I know an aggressive Chihuahua but no one ever looks twice at him because he can just be picked up.
If he was xl bully sized he would’ve killed many people by now as his owner has 0 knowledge on dogs but thinks they’re cute

 

[Clodagh]

I know an aggressive Chihuahua but no one ever looks twice at him because he can just be picked up.
If he was xl bully sized he would’ve killed many people by now as his owner has 0 knowledge on dogs but thinks they’re cute

Yes but he hasn’t been bred to be big and effective at killing. Unlike an XL.

 

[skinnydipper]

I feel you’re trying to prove your point with that screenshot but to me it’s just pointing out if you breed two aggressive dogs you’ll get an aggressive puppy. Which isn’t breed specific as “dogs of the same breed vary wildly in their behaviour” so again it’s not a breed problem

If we are talking about breed specific, take a look at the history of pit bulls.

 

[JBM]

If we are talking about breed specific, take a look at the history of pit bulls.

I know pit bulls were bred to be fighting dogs but I don’t think that means if they’re managed well they are a bad dog

 

[Clodagh]

I know pit bulls were bred to be fighting dogs but I don’t think that means if they’re managed well they are a bad dog

So why do Labradors carry sticks in the park?

 

[JBM]

Yes but he hasn’t been bred to be big and effective at killing. Unlike an XL.

My point would be that she can make that dog aggressive if she was to own a bigger dog of any breed because she found them cute it would end with that breed hurting or killing someone.
I was nearly killed by a golden retriever when I was 5 and I still have the bite marks around my eyes but golden retrievers aren’t bad dogs

 

[JBM]

So why do Labradors carry sticks in the park?

Because they were bred to retrieve game for their owners
They love fetching many objects

 

[Clodagh]

Because they were bred to retrieve game for their owners
They love fetching many objects

And have been bred as such for generations. So nurture means all Labradors want to carry stuff.
Dogs that have been bred for generations to fight and then bred to be bigger and stronger as well will always be prone to…?

 

[skinnydipper]

I know pit bulls were bred to be fighting dogs but I don’t think that means if they’re managed well they are a bad dog

Genetics will out.

I adopted a little elderly Jack Russell, a quiet little chap. Lived happily with my cats and other dogs.

One of the cats brought a rat home and lost it. The Jack Russell was prepared to tear the whole house apart until he found it and killed it. Which he did, efficiently.

 

[inandout]

If they became responsible for the disproportionate number of attacks and fatalities that XL have, then yes. Remember many unsuitable homes got dogs over the last 3 years and I expect more people are also being bitten by cocker poos, for instance, but they haven’t killed many people.

what happens when all breeds except labs are banned and they become high profile in attacks on people. There are instances of labs attacking people and in reality in the rush to ban breeds people will breed those newly banned breeds into labs ect to preserve them thus putting there traits into the breed
Look at whats happeing with xls they are now being bred into other dogs to keep the colours ect. So even if you believe they are genetically flawed (no evidence exists of that just speculation) youve now spread those traits throughout the dog population instead of keeping it within one breed.

And have been bred as such for generations. So nurture means all Labradors want to carry stuff.
Dogs that have been bred for generations to fight and then bred to be bigger and stronger as well will always be prone to…?

Genetics dont really work like that, plenty of top bred labs are ditched cause they dont make the grade same with sheepdogs lurchers terriers sled dogs ect. Also xls while bred from pits r bred as companions and many people do choose them for calm temperment , If you dont believe you can select traits away from were a breed started then how can u select for anything all dogs wud still be wolves, labs and newfies came from the st johns water dog for example which were considered pretty wild as they lived a semi feral pariah dog lifestyle in canada. Now labs and newfies are considered extremely soft tempered.

 

[JBM]

And have been bred as such for generations. So nurture means all Labradors want to carry stuff.
Dogs that have been bred for generations to fight and then bred to be bigger and stronger as well will always be prone to…?

5 Types of Pit Bull Dog Breeds

These dog breeds, including the American Staffordshire terrier and American bully, are generally considered pit bulls. Learn more about these dogs.

www.thesprucepets.com

Genetic testing of dogs predicts problem behaviors in clinical and nonclinical samples

Very little is known about the etiology of personality and psychiatric disorders. Because the core neurobiology of many such traits is evolutionarily conserved, dogs present a powerful model. We previously reported genome scans of breed averages of ten ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[skinnydipper]

Remember Dave Wilson, the guy who started this XL bullly thing?

This is him https://medium.com/bully-king-magazine/history-of-the-razors-edge-bloodline-865c8187a340

 

[CorvusCorax]

what happens when all breeds except labs are banned and they become high profile in attacks on people. There are instances of labs attacking people and in reality in the rush to ban breeds people will breed those newly banned breeds into labs ect to preserve them thus putting there traits into the breed
Look at whats happeing with xls they are now being bred into other dogs to keep the colours ect. So even if you believe they are genetically flawed (no evidence exists of that just speculation) youve now spread those traits throughout the dog population instead of keeping it within one breed.

Genetics dont really work like that, plenty of top bred labs are ditched cause they dont make the grade same with sheepdogs lurchers terriers sled dogs ect. Also xls while bred from pits r bred as companions and many people do choose them for calm temperment , If you dont believe you can select traits away from were a breed started then how can u select for anything all dogs wud still be wolves, labs and newfies came from the st johns water dog for example which were considered pretty wild as they lived a semi feral pariah dog lifestyle in canada. Now labs and newfies are considered extremely soft tempered.

Hi inandout, on the subject of genetics can you tell me the name of the GSD stud from the 80s you mentioned the other week, on the other thread?

Generally, if genetics didn't matter at all then we wouldn't see collies dominate herding, the German and Belgian Shepherds wouldn't dominate bitesports and police work etc.
Huskies *still* run and pull and jump and sing and dig big holes to sleep in because they haven't evolved **that** much, gundogs gundog, sighthounds race, terriers kill things etc.
Yes there are dogs in every litter that don't make the grade (I'm not sure George Best's brother was quite as good at football) but again, generally, you wouldn't use a Chihuahua to pull a sled.
People can reference off breeds doing well in things, but they're usually an anomaly.
There was one showline GSD at the German working championships this year.

As we're on a horse forum, horses for courses.
XL bullies aren't old enough to see some of those old traits be bred out.

I'm still not sure how I feel about a ban but I know very much how I feel about people who think 'it's how you raise them', when that's a much smaller part of the puzzle.

 

[webble]

I don't know much about dogs but in cattle genomics temperament is around 35% heritable

 

[AmyMay]

Hi inandout, on the subject of genetics can you tell me the name of the GSD stud from the 80s you mentioned the other week, on the other thread?

Generally, if genetics didn't matter at all then we wouldn't see collies dominate herding, the German and Belgian Shepherds wouldn't dominate bitesports and police work etc.
Huskies *still* run and pull and jump and sing and dig big holes to sleep in because they haven't evolved **that** much, gundogs gundog, sighthounds race, terriers kill things etc.
Yes there are dogs in every litter that don't make the grade (I'm not sure George Best's brother was quite as good at football) but again, generally, you wouldn't use a Chihuahua to pull a sled.
People can reference off breeds doing well in things, but they're usually an anomaly.
There was one showline GSD at the German working championships this year.

As we're on a horse forum, horses for courses.
XL bullies aren't old enough to see some of those old traits be bred out.

I'm still not sure how I feel about a ban but I know very much how I feel about people who think 'it's how you raise them', when that's a much smaller part of the puzzle.

This is a brilliant post

 

[Patterdale]

I know an aggressive Chihuahua but no one ever looks twice at him because he can just be picked up.
If he was xl bully sized he would’ve killed many people by now as his owner has 0 knowledge on dogs but thinks they’re cute

But he hasn’t killed anyone because he’s small, which is why there is currently no planned ban on chihuahuas.
XL bullies on the other hand, are enormous and are bred to kill things bigger than them. They are very capable of and willing to kill people, due to their BREED, as they have sadly demonstrated time and time again.

The arguments against this ban are increasingly ridiculous.

 

[JBM]

In a few years another breed will be banned because of the refusal to put policies in place for those who can own animals rather than just blaming a whole breed
I wonder what will be the 5th

 

[skinnydipper]

In a few years another breed will be banned because of the refusal to put policies in place for those who can own animals rather than just blaming a whole breed
I wonder what will be the 5th

You see the thing is, JBM, policies could have been put in place before now, they haven't, hence why we are once again in this position.

The do gooders who oppose the ban, sorry APDAWG and The Dog Control Coalition, instead of fighting to overturn the existing ban could have put their energies and resources into education and promoting ethical breeding practices - they haven't, not as far as I can see.

and don't get me started about Beverley Cuddy.

 

[Jenko109]

In a few years another breed will be banned because of the refusal to put policies in place for those who can own animals rather than just blaming a whole breed
I wonder what will be the 5th

A few years?

Was the last ban not over 30 years ago?

 

[JBM]

You see the thing is, JBM, policies could have been put in place before now, they haven't, hence why we are once again in this position.

The do gooders who oppose the ban, sorry APDAWG and The Dog Control Coalition, instead of fighting to overturn the existing ban could have put their energies and resources into education and promoting ethical breeding practices - they haven't, not as far as I can see.

Well I agree that is what they should do
And it should be done everywhere

 

[JBM]

A few years?

Was the last ban not over 30 years ago?

I’m not sure on when the uk banned breeds but I know this is your 4th and ireland have never banned a breed
We restrict breeds yes but not banned. My beautiful dobie girl is a restricted breed but she is very much still accepted in ireland

Dog licences and ownership

Rules on owning and control your dogs in Ireland. Includes licensing, microchipping and restrictions for certain breeds.

www.citizensinformation.ie

 

[TGM]

I was nearly killed by a golden retriever when I was 5 and I still have the bite marks around my eyes but golden retrievers aren’t bad dogs

If that dog had been an XL Bully or a Pitbull then you would have almost certainly been killed. This is the problem with this type of dog - lots of breeds can be aggressive, but the big Bull types have the power and jaw strength to make fatal or life-changing injuries much more likely.

 

[JBM]

If that dog had been an XL Bully or a Pitbull then you would have almost certainly been killed. This is the problem with this type of dog - lots of breeds can be aggressive, but the big Bull types have the power and jaw strength to make fatal or life-changing injuries much more likely.

If the owner wasn’t standing right there I would’ve been killed either way
All big/medium breeds have the strength to kill a child. A small dog could too

 

[CorvusCorax]

The Dangerous Dogs act of 1991 banned four breeds, not three. The other three, most people would struggle to name without Googling.

Restricted breeds in RoI must be muzzled and on a 1m line in public, not by anyone -16 and aren't allowed in some social housing developments and certain public areas (denoted by signage).

 

[TGM]

If the owner wasn’t standing right there I would’ve been killed either way
All big/medium breeds have the strength to kill a child. A small dog could too

But Pitbulls/XL Bullies have the strength to kill grown adults, which the statistics show quite clearly.

 

[Clodagh]

The Dangerous Dogs act of 1991 banned four breeds, not three. The other three, most people would struggle to name without Googling.

Restricted breeds in RoI must be muzzled and on a 1m line in public, not by anyone -16 and aren't allowed in some social housing developments and certain public areas (denoted by signage).

So the same restrictions as Doberman? Why does that translate to XL’s being unfairly treated over here?

 

[JBM]

So the same restrictions as Doberman? Why does that translate to XL’s being unfairly treated over here?

Because they’re not being banned??