XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[JBM]

No one is preaching.
If someone has a horse with health issues and very low market value pts because they don't want it buted up and sold on, is that murder too?

ambiguous question what are the health issues

 

[JBM]

We seem to be going round in ever decreasing circles - genetics.

If it’s all genetic why are twins so different

 

[[135546]]

Oh I don't know. Say diagnosed KS, low grade wobblers, PPID or EMS
Common issues

 

[skinnydipper]

I’ve never said I don’t want to be a questioned I’ve shown studies and shared why I believe what I do but I’m just telling you that I don’t agree with killing dogs and preaching about why you do isn’t going to change my mind
That’s not refusing to take part in a debate

What do you think should happen to all the unwanted dogs that are not safe to be rehomed?

 

[[135546]]

If it’s all genetic why are twins so different

Twins aren't genetically identical. Clones are genetically identical but even in parthenogenetic species spontaneous mutations and epigenetics have an impact.

 

[Cortez]

I’m not asking to change your mind or get you to agree
I’m stating my opinion and I’m thankful that we don’t ban breeds in ireland.
Restrictions should be put on all owners being allowed any dogs
And I don’t agree with murder if you want to call it euthanasia to make it sound prettier is up to the individual

Murder has a very clear meaning, it is a legal term which is not applicable to the humane putting down/euthanasia/killing of animals. You may not like it, but it is not illegal to humanely euthanise dogs that no one is prepared to look after properly.

Here in Ireland we don't yet have as big a problem with restricted breeds that there seems to be in the UK.

 

[JBM]

Oh I don't know. Say diagnosed KS, low grade wobblers, PPID or EMS
Common issues

It depends on the degree of all of those
Many horses are sold with all of these and are happy
Some horses are in more pain than others
Personally if they’re happy I would retire them
An animal is more than the job it does and I believe if they are comfortable unridden and they are pts it’s killing to make the persons life easier not the horses

 

[Bellaboo18]

Regarding the ban; I think its very sad its come to this. To me there will be some nice natured dogs caught up in the ban *but* stick to the rules and there's no need for them to be pts.
JBM- for someone so passionate (not a criticism), I have to ask, do you adopt your dogs from rescue centres?
I'm pretty sure you've recently had a puppy(?) Knowing what happens to dogs that can't find a place in a centre, I'd find that a strange choice given your opinion on 'murder'.

Unfortunately for me, we don't need to breed an xl anything and the sheer size of some of these dogs does frighten me. I'd rather we targeted bad owners, back yard breeders etc etc but something had to be done.

 

[Cortez]

It depends on the degree of all of those
Many horses are sold with all of these and are happy
Some horses are in more pain than others
Personally if they’re happy I would retire them
An animal is more than the job it does and I believe if they are comfortable unridden and they are pts it’s killing to make the persons life easier not the horses

What about meat animals?

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Despite studies (frankly a bit early on in the very short history of xls to merit a study or have one of merit), it cannot be denied that the deaths/serious injuries caused by dogs in the past year in the UK can mostly be attributed to xls. Given the widespread nature of the attacks from one end of the country to another, I’m not sure one particular line can be blamed, and I can’t see that a reasonable co-efficient has yet been determined. Once again, the dogs aren’t being punished, the owners are being targeted: they will have to pay for neutering/exemption certificates/muzzles and will have to keep them on the lead. I doubt the dogs will care much, but it’ll be a pain for owners. Those who can’t be ar$ed will pts/re-home to Scotland etc, or more likely, just carry on as usual (or dump) because there certainly isn’t the personnel to enforce any of it.

 

[skinnydipper]

If it’s all genetic why are twins so different

I was talking about dogs bred for specific roles. Genetic predisposition towards some behaviours.

 

[[135546]]

It depends on the degree of all of those
Many horses are sold with all of these and are happy
Some horses are in more pain than others
Personally if they’re happy I would retire them
An animal is more than the job it does and I believe if they are comfortable unridden and they are pts it’s killing to make the persons life easier not the horses

are you vegan?

 

[JBM]

What do you think should happen to all the unwanted dogs that are not safe to be rehomed?

I don’t agree with putting down dogs. That won’t solve the problem
I believe in more rules and regulations.
Not having a littler unless you can prove the pups would have homes before breeding.
Having to have a licence to own a dog in the first place after doing a test/classes
Allowing dogs into rented accommodation to stop them being rehomed when people have to move
There is more dogs than we need and yet people are still being allowed to pump out litters of pups for no good reason
Humans are selfish and destructive. Instead of fixing the problem by rehoming the dogs available we will just kill them and continue buying puppies.

 

[bonny]

I don’t agree with putting down dogs. That won’t solve the problem
I believe in more rules and regulations.
Not having a littler unless you can prove the pups would have homes before breeding.
Having to have a licence to own a dog in the first place after doing a test/classes
Allowing dogs into rented accommodation to stop them being rehomed when people have to move
There is more dogs than we need and yet people are still being allowed to pump out litters of pups for no good reason
Humans are selfish and destructive. Instead of fixing the problem by rehoming the dogs available we will just kill them and continue buying puppies.

How on Earth do you propose enforcing all that ?

 

[JBM]

are you vegan?

Uh no but that’s an incredibly strange question
If you’re going to start with animals are murdered for human consumption I will just bow out of this conversation

 

[Bellaboo18]

There is more dogs than we need and yet people are still being allowed to pump out litters of pups for no good reason

You buy puppies, right?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't know why people keep saying that they dogs aren't being punished? The dogs surely are. The dogs are seeing or feeling more consequence than the owners, in many instances.

I am of the belief that being pts is not the worst thing that can happen to an animal, so don't get me wrong there.

There are some dogs now who will be "hidden" in that the owners will try to hide the dog to not get caught not following the rules/regs. There are some dogs that will be abandoned. There are some dogs that will be dumped off at over crowded shelters. It's all because of the dumba** humans, yes. I just cannot say that the dogs are not being punished.

The regs are directed at the human, ultimately, but a live animal is still impacted.

 

[JBM]

Regarding the ban; I think its very sad its come to this. To me there will be some nice natured dogs caught up in the ban *but* stick to the rules and there's no need for them to be pts.
JBM- for someone so passionate (not a criticism), I have to ask, do you adopt your dogs from rescue centres?
I'm pretty sure you've recently had a puppy(?) Knowing what happens to dogs that can't find a place in a centre, I'd find that a strange choice given your opinion on 'murder'.

Unfortunately for me, we don't need to breed an xl anything and the sheer size of some of these dogs does frighten me. I'd rather we targeted bad owners, back yard breeders etc etc but something had to be done.

Bear couldn’t stay at his previous home because their other dog was attacking him
Wolfie was penned in a yard and the owner wanted rid
Both were around 3/4 months but young yes
Yogi is my only pup and my OH wanted him
i will eventually be able to take on more dogs and I am excited to do so.
I also take on rescues horses and I was supposed to foster two mares for MLHR this year but something fell through on their side

 

[JBM]

How on Earth do you propose enforcing all that ?

I’m just stating those would be better regulations than banning a whole breed and pts hundreds of dogs which doesn’t sort any long term problems

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

It depends on the degree of all of those
Many horses are sold with all of these and are happy
Some horses are in more pain than others
Personally if they’re happy I would retire them
An animal is more than the job it does and I believe if they are comfortable unridden and they are pts it’s killing to make the persons life easier not the horses

There was no way I was going to let my horse suffer through a winter of cold, dragging through mud when he was clearing pain despite double doses of Bute. Nor was I going to let me dog lie in his own piss and shit because he could no longer walk. Your arguments are becoming increasingly baseless.

I don’t agree with putting down dogs. That won’t solve the problem
I believe in more rules and regulations.
Not having a littler unless you can prove the pups would have homes before breeding.
Having to have a licence to own a dog in the first place after doing a test/classes
Allowing dogs into rented accommodation to stop them being rehomed when people have to move
There is more dogs than we need and yet people are still being allowed to pump out litters of pups for no good reason
Humans are selfish and destructive. Instead of fixing the problem by rehoming the dogs available we will just kill them and continue buying puppies.

Particularly hypocritical when you recently acquired a puppy, pumped out litters?!

 

[Bellaboo18]

Bear couldn’t stay at his previous home because their other dog was attacking him
Wolfie was penned in a yard and the owner wanted rid
Both were around 3/4 months but young yes
Yogi is my only pup and my OH wanted him
i will eventually be able to take on more dogs and I am excited to do so.
I also take on rescues horses and I was supposed to foster two mares for MLHR this year but something fell through on their side

Can't you see how hypocritical it is to say what you've said when you've recently *paid* for a puppy? You've supported another litter of puppies coming in to the world.

 

[[135546]]

Uh no but that’s an incredibly strange question
If you’re going to start with animals are murdered for human consumption I will just bow out of this conversation

It's an awful lot more brutal than lethal injection. They want to die as much as the bullies, and pose less of a danger to human lives.
PTS of animals there are not homes for is by far and away kinder than keeping them in shelters.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm in a position where I have trained and observed the training of dogs through several generations of various bloodlines over a number of years in several breeds.
People in my circle select or discount potential new dogs based on their lines.
If it wasn't important we'd all be able to go to the pound, get a dog and train it to do absolutely anything.

It's genetics.

 

[JBM]

Can't you see how hypocritical it is to say what you've said when you've recently *paid* for a puppy? You've supported another litter of puppies coming in to the world.

I don’t because the breeder was responsible and had homes organised before the litter was created. Which is one of the rules I said would be beneficial.
Did you know there’s a shelter that has had 3 litters of puppies dropped off this month alone? They had a litter either unplanned or never bothered to set up homes and then dumped them. That is the type of litters that are fuelling the problem.

 

[JBM]

There was no way I was going to let my horse suffer through a winter of cold, dragging through mud when he was clearing pain despite double doses of Bute. Nor was I going to let me dog lie in his own piss and shit because he could no longer walk. Your arguments are becoming increasingly baseless.

Particularly hypocritical when you recently acquired a puppy, pumped out litters?!

You’re picking and choosing I clearly said if the animal was in pain I would pts

 

[[135546]]

But not PTS BEFORE it's in pain?

 

[Bellaboo18]

I don’t because the breeder was responsible and had homes organised before the litter was created. Which is one of the rules I said would be beneficial.
Did you know there’s a shelter that has had 3 litters of puppies dropped off this month alone? They had a litter either unplanned or never bothered to set up homes and then dumped them. That is the type of litters that are fuelling the problem.

But you could have adopted one instead? Saving a life. All litters are technically fueling the problem, in that we have more dogs than we have homes.
I know the problems rescues are currently having.

 

[inandout]

Euthainised is killing to end suffering. U can't euthanise an animal that's not suffering.
Many breeds of lgd have been bred to fight to the death if needed usually with a wolf or bear. Terriers will fight to the death with a badger or fox. Guard breeds like Shep's dobes rotties or mastiff will sometimes do the same with a person.
U can ban breeds forever and people will just create new ones or breed the existing ones badly.

 

[JBM]

But you could have adopted one instead? Saving a life. All litters are technically fueling the problem, in that we have more dogs than we have homes.
I know the problems rescues are currently having.

I’m not going to leave my OH because he got a pup from a responsible breeder yogi is our dog now even if I would've preferred a rescue

 

[CorvusCorax]

Why aren't XL bullies or their derivatives doing obedience, agility, herding, utility sports, field sports, guide dog work, police work, etc etc.

We are often told that they have all these attributes but they don't seem to be involved in any of these things in any great number, despite their popularity.