Yard Dilemma

Dialemma

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Im a long term poster but dont want to be identified if poss. I am on a smallish private yard which has been perfect in every way for a couple of years. Lovely liveries, great hacking, all weather arena for schooling and close to home. But the YO has always been the only problem. I've just accepted her as being an unfortunate part of being there. But she is getting worse all the time and I don't know what to do.

So basically she is money obsessed. She has always added 'extras' on bills that are annoying but we've lived with it. Things like bringing in because its raining or changing rugs for no reason. If anyone complains they are told it's a 'welfare issue' and she will step in to look after the horses and charge, like it or lump it. Some people have flipped at being told they arent looking after their horses properly! But she just says leave then and lots do. There is a big turnover of liveries because of her. I just put up with it because it was only a quid here or there. But she is charging for more and more now. Things like tail washing no-one asked for or poo picking at lunchtime even though I always do it in the evening. And it is now adding up to a lot of extras every month!

Worst of all she has full grass liveries and keeps putting them into stables when horses with stables are out. So they are using up bedding etc. We've asked her not to and she said well if the grass liveiries can't come off the grass then yours can't have turn out! She won't allow DIY grass livery and full grass livery costs are the same as DIY with a stable. But there is not enough grass! The grass liveries don't want their horses in but she just says they need to rest the paddocks. Half the time they don't even know their horses have been in all day. So they are as unhappy about it as the liveries with stables. The contract does not say she can use stables for other people's horses.

There are now 6 of us with 10 horses between us who have had enough. Question is what do we do? Just leave? Delete unfair charges off the bill and pay the rest and see what she does? Lock our stable doors when we turn out in the morning! Polite conversations about these charges and the stables/turn out problem backed up in writing have had no effect so far. She's a broken bloody record: "you can leave if you don't like it'.

Also how would 10 horses find a new yard? We all get on so well, We help each other out all the time, ride together etc. Splitting up would be awful. And there are literally NO nice yards around us. I can't find any anyway. The ideal would be for us to rent a whole place for the 10 horses and not have a YO at all! 1 of us is an RI and one had horses at home for years so I think we'd manage fine on our own. But no idea how to find places with stables, storage and an arena and enough turn out.

Any suggestions?
 

Berpisc

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I would not be paying for services that were not discussed with me. If its not on the contract she shouldn't be charging. However, she has managed to charge you all successfully, so it depends on how determined you all are I suppose.
I am sure when I had liveries that they would certainly not have paid me for random charges like that either.
I think you have two choices, put up with it or leave sadly.
 

be positive

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No help to you but it sounds as if she should only have full liveries and would then be in control of what does go on, you may well be paying the cost of a basic full livery by the time the extras are added on but that is not what you signed up for so she needs to back off and leave the DIY's to be DIY apart from the odd emergency which does happen.

As for what you do maybe a proper meeting with the YO and see what her reaction would be if the 6 of you all refuse to pay for the additional costs of her doing things that are totally unnecessary, poo picking when she knows you do it, tail washing etc is taking the p if she charges for it, the odd rug change water top up may be required, I have done a few for DIY's but would not even think of charging if it was for welfare reasons, look around and see if there are any yards to rent as a whole, there often are but they may not be advertised and be prepared to split up and maybe move again if and when something comes up.
 

milliepops

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No help to you but it sounds as if she should only have full liveries and would then be in control of what does go on, you may well be paying the cost of a basic full livery by the time the extras are added on but that is not what you signed up for so she needs to back off and leave the DIY's to be DIY apart from the odd emergency which does happen.
agreed, bonkers isn't it. I'm on a yard where YO makes it plainly clear he doesn't really want DIYs yet advertises half the yard as such. Its weird being a DIY but in such a controlling environment. I think some people think they can accept DIYs but then aren't able to cope with letting people get on with doing their own thing.
 

be positive

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agreed, bonkers isn't it. I'm on a yard where YO makes it plainly clear he doesn't really want DIYs yet advertises half the yard as such. Its weird being a DIY but in such a controlling environment. I think some people think they can accept DIYs but then aren't able to cope with letting people get on with doing their own thing.

I had only a few DIY's over the years and while most were great it was at times hard to ignore some less than ideal management, one arrived on a Friday and left at lunchtime saying' see you on Sunday afternoon' he was left with a very big trug of water and huge pile of hay but that was not my idea of how to care for a horse, I did have to top up water and hay, she had other interesting ideas and was gone at the end of the first month:rolleyes:
Then there was the one more recently that I posted a thread about who brought in for the night and thought she could leave until the next evening when they had run out of hay by 9pm, she didn't like my suggestion that they needed more forage and water if being left for 24 hours so moved on fairly quickly but these are unusual examples and most have put their horses first, I certainly would not do jobs to increase my income that is not fair.
 

Bellaboo18

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I'd leave.

I could probably let the odd random charge go for a yard I loved but if my horse hasn't got a rug on, it would be for a good reason and if a YO then decided to rug I'd be furious.

Finding a place for 10 horses would be very hard but I'd look around at your options, even if 5 left she might change her attitude!

I was on a yard for a month about 2 years ago that was all DIY but the YO was very odd, I almost think she wanted to pretend all the horses were hers. Id turn up at the yard and go and 'find' my horse, she might have been in, out, changed field whatever the YO had decided that day with no apparent reason. I couldn't cope with it!
 

Dialemma

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agreed, bonkers isn't it. I'm on a yard where YO makes it plainly clear he doesn't really want DIYs yet advertises half the yard as such. Its weird being a DIY but in such a controlling environment. I think some people think they can accept DIYs but then aren't able to cope with letting people get on with doing their own thing.

Nail on head. She's a total control freak. Full livery would not cost much more and I'd consider that if it weren't for the fact that my horse would get such restricted turnout if she had her way. She wants the money from more horses than the land can support.
 

Dialemma

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I had only a few DIY's over the years and while most were great it was at times hard to ignore some less than ideal management, one arrived on a Friday and left at lunchtime saying' see you on Sunday afternoon' he was left with a very big trug of water and huge pile of hay but that was not my idea of how to care for a horse, I did have to top up water and hay, she had other interesting ideas and was gone at the end of the first month:rolleyes:
Then there was the one more recently that I posted a thread about who brought in for the night and thought she could leave until the next evening when they had run out of hay by 9pm, she didn't like my suggestion that they needed more forage and water if being left for 24 hours so moved on fairly quickly but these are unusual examples and most have put their horses first, I certainly would not do jobs to increase my income that is not fair.

I get how hard it must be for a YO to have slack DIYers around. So if she intervened in those situations I'd be fine with that. If my horse ran out of water or knocked over a bucket or whatever I'd be very grateful if she topped up and would happily pay. Likewise for dreadful weather or rugs taken off if it was hotter than expected etc. But she is taking the p - bringing in because its drizzling and charging for bringing in. AND for mucking out so she could bring in when I wanted my horse out all day and would have mucked out when I got there after work. We are all up there twice a day every day. There are no welfare concerns at all. It was just an excuse to squeeze more cash out of us! And now she's not even pretending it's welfare anymore. Tail washes are not a welfare issue.

I think we might all try to refuse to pay unfair extras and see what she does. But the risk is all getting kicked off and having nowhere to go.
 

Dialemma

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I was on a yard for a month about 2 years ago that was all DIY but the YO was very odd, I almost think she wanted to pretend all the horses were hers. Id turn up at the yard and go and 'find' my horse, she might have been in, out, changed field whatever the YO had decided that day with no apparent reason. I couldn't cope with it!


That is like her - She gets attached to certain horses and acts like she owns them. Grooming, fussing over them. Not mine thankfully!
 

Pearlsasinger

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Nail on head. She's a total control freak. Full livery would not cost much more and I'd consider that if it weren't for the fact that my horse would get such restricted turnout if she had her way. She wants the money from more horses than the land can support.


Then the best thing you can do is leave the yard. If your fellow liveries leave at the same time, perhaps your YO will re-consider her priorities
 

HashRouge

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While I agree with others that leaving is probably the best bet, I do wonder if it is worth talking to the YO first? I imagine she would balk at losing ten horses in one go (though I might be wrong of course!) so perhaps two of you could arrange a meeting with her on behalf of the rest and just go over your concerns and see if there is any flexibility? I would hate those unseen added costs on the bill - would it be worth seeing whether she'd consider putting the monthly bill up (a sensible amount obvs!) and scrap the "added extras" altogether (unless it was a livery service requested by the owner)? Obviously this whole thing could go very wrong and you would need to do it in as non-confrontational way as possible, but possibly worth considering? It sounds like money might be an issue if she is cramming in more horses and adding extra charges into bills.
 

Melody Grey

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Do have a look round for a sole-use yard though. Sadly I think there will be a few equestrian businesses closing in the current climate so something might come up?
 

honetpot

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I would be prepared to move but if it's not in the contract she can not charge you for extras if it's not discussed or approved earlier. So as a group I would send her a letter just asking for a list of charges for any services, so its in writing and ask that any services be approved before they were done and charged for. Dress it up as much as you like, loss or earnings, need to budget etc. Then stop paying for any extras unless asked for. The fact that you have sent her the letter, or given it to her is evidence if she takes you to small claims.
I was a livery for a short time and my mare had a hoof abscess. I turned up to redress it, and the YO was watching, and said I'll finish that off if you like. I got stung for £5 at the end of our stay for this help, which may not seem a lot but if she had helped me any more the help bill would have been more than the livery.
 
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Dialemma

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We will try that honetpot. That sounds exactly like the YO. I used to think she was so helpful because she was forever offerng to help - not realising all those 'favours' were going on the bill! A livery had a headache and YO offered her a paracetamol.... which then went on the bill!
 

holeymoley

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Sounds mental. Time to leave! I don't have any other advice unfortunately, if she's not listening and doesn't bother with her clients when there's a problem that's been raised then there's not much else you can do I'm afraid.
 

holeymoley

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In the meantime I'd check out other yards to see where the spaces are, and then all of you get together with YO and explain that you won't be paying for silly extras that are not required, if she's still stubborn then you all give notice and leave.
 

Gingerwitch

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No help to you but it sounds as if she should only have full liveries and would then be in control of what does go on, you may well be paying the cost of a basic full livery by the time the extras are added on but that is not what you signed up for so she needs to back off and leave the DIY's to be DIY apart from the odd emergency which does happen.

As for what you do maybe a proper meeting with the YO and see what her reaction would be if the 6 of you all refuse to pay for the additional costs of her doing things that are totally unnecessary, poo picking when she knows you do it, tail washing etc is taking the p if she charges for it, the odd rug change water top up may be required, I have done a few for DIY's but would not even think of charging if it was for welfare reasons, look around and see if there are any yards to rent as a whole, there often are but they may not be advertised and be prepared to split up and maybe move again if and when something comes up.
Please, please be careful. I know that from bitter experience. Asked to meditate between a group of liveries and yard owners during foot and mouth as y.o had banned hacking off the yard and shut the farm tracks, then proceeded to impose a charge of £3.00 per half hour use of school per rider. So did exactly this, y.o exploded and called a yard meeting. Did anyone say anything ?.... no not a thing, and guess who got the blame so many folk will give you the bullets, not many will be there or are prepared to fire them.
 

holeymoley

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Please, please be careful. I know that from bitter experience. Asked to meditate between a group of liveries and yard owners during foot and mouth as y.o had banned hacking off the yard and shut the farm tracks, then proceeded to impose a charge of £3.00 per half hour use of school per rider. So did exactly this, y.o exploded and called a yard meeting. Did anyone say anything ?.... no not a thing, and guess who got the blame so many folk will give you the bullets, not many will be there or are prepared to fire them.

This 100%, make sure everyone is truely in the same boat. Some folk will agree for a bit of chat or gossip for the easy way out and in actual fact theyre neither here nor there about the matter.
 

Buster2020

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Please, please be careful. I know that from bitter experience. Asked to meditate between a group of liveries and yard owners during foot and mouth as y.o had banned hacking off the yard and shut the farm tracks, then proceeded to impose a charge of £3.00 per half hour use of school per rider. So did exactly this, y.o exploded and called a yard meeting. Did anyone say anything ?.... no not a thing, and guess who got the blame so many folk will give you the bullets, not many will be there or are prepared to fire them.
I completely agree a similar issue happened to me the horses where getting no turnout . All the livery’s was bitching about But didn’t have the have guts to stand up to the yard owner. Unfortunately I was the idiot that said something to the yard owner thinking the others did but they didn’t. Everyone turned against me in the yard including the other livery’s. Be careful op a lot of people are two faced
 

Gingerwitch

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I completely agree a similar issue happened to me the horses where getting no turnout . All the livery’s was bitching about But didn’t have the have guts to stand up to the yard owner. Unfortunately I was the idiot that said something to the yard owner thinking the others did but they didn’t. Everyone turned against me in the yard including the other livery’s. Be careful op a lot of people are two faced
hi buster I wanted to like but does not seem right but exactly this op, folk are so two faced
 
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saalsk

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Not me, but I heard from a friend that had a horse on DIY but paid for field, stable, hay and straw, and any added extras that she needed ( bringing in when she was late from work, holding for the farrier etc ). She also found the YO used her box to put grass livery horses in during the day ( hers was on day turn out only, as there wasn't much grass ! ) as she then told the grass liveries, who with no judgement, were often fatter type natives, and needed the break, so stood in a stable with a small haynet. My friend had a contract for a stable, field, hay, straw, which did not mention time constraints for turn out or stable time. She sent a solicitor letter stating that if her stable was going to be used during the day for another horse, then she was only going to pay a pro rata fee for it, so reducing her monthly bill, as she was obviously unable to use her own paid for stable during the day. YO changed her plans. Not everyone followed suit, but the yard soon got a reputation for such tactics, and even though spaces in yards in the are were short, the YO found it increasingly difficult to fill spaces vacated by annoyed livery people fed up with the money grabbing. It turns out the grass livery involved - a lovely person I still meet up with today - was being charged a daily rate for use of the stable !
 

Gingerwitch

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Not me, but I heard from a friend that had a horse on DIY but paid for field, stable, hay and straw, and any added extras that she needed ( bringing in when she was late from work, holding for the farrier etc ). She also found the YO used her box to put grass livery horses in during the day ( hers was on day turn out only, as there wasn't much grass ! ) as she then told the grass liveries, who with no judgement, were often fatter type natives, and needed the break, so stood in a stable with a small haynet. My friend had a contract for a stable, field, hay, straw, which did not mention time constraints for turn out or stable time. She sent a solicitor letter stating that if her stable was going to be used during the day for another horse, then she was only going to pay a pro rata fee for it, so reducing her monthly bill, as she was obviously unable to use her own paid for stable during the day. YO changed her plans. Not everyone followed suit, but the yard soon got a reputation for such tactics, and even though spaces in yards in the are were short, the YO found it increasingly difficult to fill spaces vacated by annoyed livery people fed up with the money grabbing. It turns out the grass livery involved - a lovely person I still meet up with today - was being charged a daily rate for use of the stable !
Yes, a yard I used to be local to used to chuck the livery horses out to put the incoming pony club/riding club camps in. Charged the incoming camp for livery and shavings and still charged the liveries full price and used their existing stables and bedding.
 

jnb

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Take a look at Preloved - I was lucky, i'd struggled and been bullied on my last yard with my old cob & couldn't find anything better....verious things happened, I lost my old cob - partly due to the YM at this yard - - when I bought my baby cob after a few twists and turns where I had to send him to a friends place 55 miles away as I was hospitalised and very ill, I had come out of hospital despondant as I hadn't seen him in weeks, googled stables yards for rent and one came up less than 7 miles from my house! I managed to get to it and now rent 3 stables, huge field shelter 5.5 acres with storage and water/electric and it's THE BEST thing i have ever done, it is bliss.
I hope you find something, if you can say a general are, someone on here might know of something or can message you?
 
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