Yet another delightful rider..... not..... when will this end?

[sbloom]

Maybe I’m a bit naive but that has really shocked me, I just don’t know what to say. How can someone who presumably likes these beautiful animals because he’s made a career with them, treat them like that????How disgusting . I’d like to smack him round the head.

I hope the person who was videoing intervened straight away

Because they love their horses like an F1 driver loves their cars.

 

[eahotson]

Because they love their horses like an F1 driver loves their cars.

In the show jumping world it is quite common to hear a horse called a good "tool".

 

[teapot]

So how did they suspend parra for dressage?

Wasn’t he suspended by the FEI? USA Dressage and USA Eventing may also not sing off the same sheet either

 

[ester]

wording seems different in different places ‘usef enforcing suspension’ rather than having their own?!

 

[teapot]

And usef

Looks like it was FEI first though https://horsesdaily.com/article/usef-statement-on-cesar-parra-investigation/

 

[ester]

H+H reads that usef got the clips and sent them to FEI so why not the same here? Wild

“On Thursday (1 February), USEF received video clips documenting abhorrent abusive training techniques by FEI dressage athlete and trainer Cesar Parra at his private training facility in [Florida],” the spokesman said.







“USEF immediately coordinated with the FEI. The following day, the FEI imposed a temporary suspension against Cesar Parra, which is being enforced by USEF at the national level, prohibiting him and his horses’ participation in competition.”

 

[teapot]

H+H reads that usef got the clips and sent them to FEI so why not the same here? Wild

“On Thursday (1 February), USEF received video clips documenting abhorrent abusive training techniques by FEI dressage athlete and trainer Cesar Parra at his private training facility in [Florida],” the spokesman said.







“USEF immediately coordinated with the FEI. The following day, the FEI imposed a temporary suspension against Cesar Parra, which is being enforced by USEF at the national level, prohibiting him and his horses’ participation in competition.”

They have gone to the FEI according to the USA Eventing post, time will tell if anything happens I guess.

تسجيل الدخول إلى فيسبوك

قم بتسجيل الدخول إلى فيسبوك لبدء المشاركة والتواصل مع أصدقائك وعائلتك والأشخاص الذين تعرفهم.

www.facebook.com

 

[ester]

.ah thanks!

 

[ramsaybailey]

Does anyone else once-eventing-obsessed feel totally done with it now? I feel awful that I watched Burghley tbh, its awful that I don't feel shocked about more abuse coming out, I was going to go to Cornbury but I just can't face it.

Seeing as the FEI had this info prior to Burghley I have absolutely no faith at all that others aren't behaving the same way

 

[nikicb]

This is the statement issued by USEF on their FB page for those who don't use FB.....

USEF takes all reports of equine abuse very seriously and prioritizes the safeguarding of horse welfare. We received an anonymous report at the beginning of the summer regarding U.S. eventing athlete, Andrew McConnon, and were sent materials showing abusive behaviors shortly after the report was made. After determining USEF did not have jurisdiction over the matter because it did not involve misconduct at a USEF competition, USEF promptly referred the matter to the FEI, where it is under investigation. The FEI’s jurisdiction and ability to pursue disciplinary action is broader regarding reported incidents of animal abuse occurring outside of licensed competitions. This matter is under the jurisdiction of the FEI and USEF will enforce any disciplinary action taken.

Abuse in any form, at any time, is unacceptable in our sport, and the USEF Board approved a rewrite of GR838 (109-23) under the Welfare of the Horse Sub-Chapter at the Mid-Year Board Meeting in early June. This rule broadens the jurisdiction USEF can exercise over reports of abuse that occur away from USEF competition. It also provides an updated description of what constitutes unethical treatment of a horse and provides definitions for both “Participants” who are bound by the rule and a “Covered Horse” expanding the ability of USEF to protect horses. The rule change proposal went through an extensive review process. Stakeholders and affiliates across all breeds and disciplines provided feedback, which was instrumental in the creation of the final draft of the rule. The rule will go into effect December 1, 2024, and will apply to reports of misconduct off competition grounds that occur after the effective date submitted going forward.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The commentators at Burghley were praising the horse that helped their rider out by ignoring the rider’s very dodgy line on the return leg at Discovery Valley and jumped the last flagged fence correctly anyway.

Now you’re left thinking that some top riders train their horses to jump between the flags even when poorly presented by battering them when they don’t.

Don’t bother piping up to say that this was an isolated incident, blah, blah, we now know that far too many pros are regularly cruel to their horses. The hero worship has to stop.

It needs to be stopped from the top down. The chances of which?

 

[ramsaybailey]

It needs to be stopped from the top down. The chances of which?

0

 

[ester]

I’ve seen it because Jason shared it as he’d been helping with their dressage so hopefully only good reasons

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[KC31]

It makes me so sad to think that it is now becoming the norm. There are some top riders i wouldn't let loose with a pushbike, yet people make excuses for them. There is quite simply no excuse for horse abuse at any level. This is giving those who want to ban anything equestrian so much ammunition, it is just awful.

 

[I'm Dun]

Does anyone else once-eventing-obsessed feel totally done with it now? I feel awful that I watched Burghley tbh, its awful that I don't feel shocked about more abuse coming out, I was going to go to Cornbury but I just can't face it.

Seeing as the FEI had this info prior to Burghley I have absolutely no faith at all that others aren't behaving the same way

I've not been able to watch equestrian sports of any type for a while now. i do still watch some amateur stuff with people I know, and I watch raras driving stuff as I know she doesn't abuse her horses and they enjoy the job. Anyone I don't know, just leaves me cold now.

 

[Cloball]

The commentators at Burghley were praising the horse that helped their rider out by ignoring the rider’s very dodgy line on the return leg at Discovery Valley and jumped the last flagged fence correctly anyway.

Now you’re left thinking that some top riders train their horses to jump between the flags even when poorly presented by battering them when they don’t.

Don’t bother piping up to say that this was an isolated incident, blah, blah, we now know that far too many pros are regularly cruel to their horses. The hero worship has to stop.

It needs to be stopped from the top down. The chances of which?

I'm just not sure horses brains even work that way (obviously not an expert) I'm really not sure they'd be able to associate flags with beating as opposed to anything else that might go on at the time in which case your are just beating a confused horse for no reason.

 

[southerncomfort]

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https://www.facebook.com/share/p/DtCtzpBqCyVqayct/

A post from someone who had their horses in training with him.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

I'm just not sure horses brains even work that way (obviously not an expert) I'm really not sure they'd be able to associate flags with beating as opposed to anything else that might go on at the time in which case your are just beating a confused horse for no reason.

As a follow-on, if you look at the *BE careers of the young horses AM rode for WFP there's a roughly common trajectory (down and out). Some good results, but seemingly unsustainable. (*obviously a very superficial judgement by a highly amateur observer).

 

[ester]

From coth

I’m Andrew’s father, Thomas Bostwick McConnon of Westmoreland, NH. I have not yet spoken with my son about the brief videos that were posted. I’m not hiding behind a name like “Dr_Doolittle” or “Virginia_Horse_Mom”. I respect Allie Conrad for speaking her mind while clearly identifying herself. I encourage all of you to show some restraint before ruining someone’s career as a result of innuendo and hearsay that you might read online, and to wait for Andrew to make a statement about this whole controversy. If you have something to say, do so while letting the rest of us know who you are, and what actual knowledge you might possess about alleged past abuses, not just hearsay, or that you feel it’s “disgusting”. I know little about horses other than keeping one’s heels down while riding them, whatever that means. I expect they’re not smart enough to understand why you might be slapping them (open-handed, not punching) on the neck, so I can only assume that this is not an effective way to train a horse to do what you’d prefer, and I doubt given the successes Andrew has had that this is his usual standard operating procedure. I’ve often seen top-level and highly-respected riders whale (I googled it, that’s the right word) quite forcefully on the necks of their mounts after a successful show jumping round. I doubt that the horses were fazed in the least, and I’m confident that they didn’t feel abused. Perhaps some who have posted to this forum have some personal gripes with Andrew. Let them deal with him personally. For the rest of us please stop the feeding frenzy and wait for the rest of the story.

Per Merriam Webster: Whale is also a verb for the action of hitting something (such as that gambling table, or a punching bag) forcefully and repeatedly.

 

[dorsetladette]

From coth

If that is Daddy - I don't think he has help his son much with that statement.

As we all know an enthusiastic pat on the neck is very different to the actions in those videos and reports.

 

[TPO]

From coth

Oh well, if his dad said he doesn't train that way then the FEI can halt their investigation right now

Don't say beating up horses is disgusting until you post your full name and address....

 

[TPO]

I’ve seen it because Jason shared it as he’d been helping with their dressage so hopefully only good reasons

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Agreed, I don't think it's fair to tarnish Lauren with the same brush just because her horse was genuine/honest. That does not mean it's beaten like the poor horse in the video of Andrew.

Lauren has had a fair bit of coverage as an amateur eventer who also works full time. I think she only has one eventer and one youngster. Doesn't exactly fit the mould of a results driven megalomaniac who views horses as "tools".

 

[nikicb]

From coth

"I encourage all of you to show some restraint before ruining someone’s career as a result of innuendo and hearsay that you might read online"

I hardly think a video showing him clearly whacking a horse around the head is innuendo or hearsay, but there you go.....

From one of the owners' pages.....

https://www.facebook.com/pdfeventing/posts/pfbid07MgRzr6wvjowuSncujZVXpR5cD2gCQorGcubXCWDf9GnWJzZuREoyfUoiuMaX1Wsl

 

[nikicb]

I’ve seen it because Jason shared it as he’d been helping with their dressage so hopefully only good reasons

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Agreed - unless the horse decided to jump the car, it had to go one way or the other, and was already veering slightly right.

 

[ester]

dad’s replies weren’t any betterz. The PDF horse was already home it seems, but definitely not how you want to find out it had happened to your horse

 

[Honey08]

That must be so horrible finding out about your horse being mistreated through a video like that.

And daddy has just dug the hole a little deeper for his son!

I hate to say it, but I went to a demo about 20 years ago for a much loved top eventer, who had ridden at the Olympics. They told the viewers that if the horse ran out it got yanked in the mouth to an abrupt halt, turned back towards the fence and whacked so that, as they put it, “the horse learned it was much more uncomfortable to run out”. Also a much loved instructor I’d had since I was a young teen invited me to watch her teach someone a lesson as they might have been selling the horse and she thought it would suit me. As she told the rider to go into canter she said “now be ready to sock it’s back teeth out if it bucks!” I think it was only when I came back to horses at the age of about 34, after a 12 year break, that I started to question things that people were doing as training.

 

[cauda equina]

This is off topic, but another example of the utter uselessness of the FEI

https://horsesport.com/horse-news/how-periodic-review-stalling-debate-double-bridles/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Double%20Bridle%20Rules%20%7C%20Fuchs%20and%20Leone%20Jei%20Repeat%20at%20Masters%20%7C%20Canada%205th%20in%20Nations%20Cup%20%7C%20US%20Para-Dressage%20Team%20Triumph%20%7C%20Driving%20Gold%20for%20Exell&utm_campaign=HS-Enewsletter2024-Monday%20September%209

 

[Trot_on]

I do worry that it is much more common than uncommon to abuse horses when sport and money is involved - there's so much coming out the woodwork. I remember a lesson with a fairly high level eventer who told me that my very sensitive Welsh D needed to 'be more scared of me than the fences'... I left the lesson as that is not how I train.

Another with a very well known top level rider who tried to chase my horse over a ditch with lunge whips which I objected at. The horse jumped ditches fine, he was having a particurly bad day and even when I've paid for a session, I'm happy to pat and call it a day because horses are horses. Said horse went on to jump many dithes since without issue, and also have many 'bad' days too. He gets sensory overload and becomes overcome - it happens. Getting chased by a lunge whip over that ditch wouldn't have solved anything that day.

I always presumed you were 'safer' with eventers because horses cannot jumparound those big courses from fear - they have to be game and willing. But who knows that it takes to get them there. I'm not keen on the 'make it happen again all odds' way about eventing... make it happen yes, unless you're putting your horse at risk... then swallow your pride and do a circle.

 

[Nicnac]

Sickening - why has this only come to light now after Burghley when the FEI have had the evidence since early summer? He was sponsored by Rebecca Farms to come over to the UK - another big US name. Also won the Sportsmanship award at Kentucky this Spring.

Vile behaviour with no excuse whatever Daddy says.

 

[nikicb]

Sickening - why has this only come to light now after Burghley when the FEI have had the evidence since early summer? He was sponsored by Rebecca Farms to come over to the UK - another big US name. Also won the Sportsmanship award at Kentucky this Spring.

Vile behaviour with no excuse whatever Daddy says.

Rebecca Farm has made a statement, but no mention of whether they are going to go after him for a reimbursement of the sponsorship money.

https://www.facebook.com/RebeccaFarm/posts/pfbid02A2YFM1RCvTJbiCHWUo5RSV5aVYuQBTyuUygiSEhxH1VbG8FRGFR3BzBT44j2Pwezl

Meanwhile Daddy is digging himself deeper and deeper on COTH.