Yet another delightful rider..... not..... when will this end?

[ihatework]

Agreed, I don't think it's fair to tarnish Lauren with the same brush just because her horse was genuine/honest. That does not mean it's beaten like the poor horse in the video of Andrew.

Lauren has had a fair bit of coverage as an amateur eventer who also works full time. I think she only has one eventer and one youngster. Doesn't exactly fit the mould of a results driven megalomaniac who views horses as "tools".

Completely agree. All that shows is a horse that is happy and understanding of his job - he wouldn’t have looked for the flags with his like that otherwise. This is the type of partnership riders should be aspiring to obtain - less micromanaged!

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

Well scrap that, US Eventing saying it’s not under USEF jurisdiction because it didn’t happen at a competition

In the show jumping world it is quite common to hear a horse called a good "tool".

Yes, I don’t like it when riders refer to their horses as a cross country machine

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

And the FEI knew about it before he went to Burghley?!

This makes me so cross.

From coth

I was about to get into various things wrong with what he's said but decided it can just be summed up as 'an absolute load of pollocks'

By his own admission he doesn't know anything about horses or riding (weird, if your son is competing 5* you would probably know at least a little something), assuming that's true then he himself if just speculating, but we're not allowed to speculate or say anything unless we have direct knowledge of the abuse, but if we did have direct knowledge of abuse then we'd only be saying so because we have 'personal gripes'.

Sure daddio, sure...

 

[daffy44]

This makes me so cross.


I was about to get into various things wrong with what he's said but decided it can just be summed up as 'an absolute load of pollocks'

By his own admission he doesn't know anything about horses or riding (weird, if your son is competing 5* you would probably know at least a little something), assuming that's true then he himself if just speculating, but we're not allowed to speculate or say anything unless we have direct knowledge of the abuse, but if we did have direct knowledge of abuse then we'd only be saying so because we have 'personal gripes'.

Sure daddio, sure...

I agree with everything you've said, except that I can believe his father knows nothing about horses despite having a son at 5*. The only things my Mum ever knew about horses were if they had a nice tail, and if they were cuddley, thats it, and I've produced three horses to GP, and I used to event to Intermediate and sj at 1.35, Mum was cheerfully oblivious to everything horse related!

 

[Ifmpw]

I am just glad this is gaining traction, at one point I thought i was going to trip over the carpet as that is where it appeared to be going.
Good on the owners for calling this Tool out

 

[ester]

I agree with everything you've said, except that I can believe his father knows nothing about horses despite having a son at 5*. The only things my Mum ever knew about horses were if they had a nice tail, and if they were cuddley, thats it, and I've produced three horses to GP, and I used to event to Intermediate and sj at 1.35, Mum was cheerfully oblivious to everything horse related!

It doesn't appear they have a close relationship.. . .

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I agree with everything you've said, except that I can believe his father knows nothing about horses despite having a son at 5*. The only things my Mum ever knew about horses were if they had a nice tail, and if they were cuddley, thats it, and I've produced three horses to GP, and I used to event to Intermediate and sj at 1.35, Mum was cheerfully oblivious to everything horse related!

Perhaps the weirdness is in that it feels like he is over-egging the 'I don't know anything about horses' thing and it being in this particular context. My dad was also not horsey and I have never competed outside of a riding school setting, unless you count one very tiny local show somewhere in the early 2000s, but he could (as I'm sure your mum could) tell you the difference between giving a horse a pat and clobbering it round the head. And know which one it is we're seeing in that video.

Eta - my dad was quite funny coming to watch horse shows with me. He quite liked the showing classes and trying to guess which one would win

 

[daffy44]

It doesn't appear they have a close relationship.. . .

Well I cant comment on that, I know absolutely nothing about him or his father. But I was close to my Mum, and she still remained utterly uninterested in anything horse related except beautiful tails, and giving them apples and kisses!

 

[daffy44]

Perhaps the weirdness is in that it feels like he is over-egging the 'I don't know anything about horses' thing and it being in this particular context. My dad was also not horsey and I have never competed outside of a riding school setting, unless you count one very tiny local show somewhere in the early 2000s, but he could (as I'm sure your mum could) tell you the difference between giving a horse a pat and clobbering it round the head. And know which one it is we're seeing in that video.

Very true, my Mum taught me from a very early age to love and respect all animals (she was a dog person), and she absolutely could have told the difference between patting, and anything even remotely violent.

 

[ihatework]

It doesn't appear they have a close relationship.. . .

I’d lay money the father has created an angry but mostly charming abusive monster. The fact (assuming coth is the father) he hadn’t been in touch with his son before posting or even knew when he was returning to the uk from a major competition kind of says it all!

ETA just my opinion and pure speculation!!

 

[ester]

Well I cant comment on that, I know absolutely nothing about him or his father. But I was close to my Mum, and she still remained utterly uninterested in anything horse related except beautiful tails, and giving them apples and kisses!

my dad remained terrified of the 2 that lived outside his house for 18 years so apples and kisses much better!

 

[Ifmpw]

Lets not condemn his dad the son is a tool in his own right, we all know right from wrong and despite what ever we believe about up bringing's, you still have your own choices to make and you do know right from wrong.

 

[daffy44]

my dad remained terrified of the 2 that lived outside his house for 18 years so apples and kisses much better!

True! Mum had no fear of the horses, and quite enjoyed making a fuss of them, but never came to any shows/training etc, because she just had no interest at all.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I could hardly bring myself to watch the video. All of this abuse from competitive riders is exhausting to witness...I can't even imagine being in the shoes of the horse. Utterly heartbreaking.

 

[ester]

oh did mean to say that coth pointed out that his vet is his partner, I did wonder what you did when you created as many mahoosive wheals as were in the photo.

 

[dorsetladette]

Has anyone else seen the photo of his horse with its head tied to its front leg? according to COTH it was 'severely whipped' and then left like that for 2 hours.

How has this man never met a horse more spirited that retaliated and gave him a taste of his own medicine. I've never come across anyone more deserving of a shod hoof in the temple.

 

[southerncomfort]

I can't bear it, I really can't.

Has the 'man' himself given any kind of statement/excuse/apology?

 

[tristars]

Once again it comes down to, understanding that, when training a horse if it goes wrong, or does not work, stop, take a step back, and ask yourself what you did to make that happen, in his case not happen, and do not clobber the horse, try to be humble, I think that is what horses teach us, in the end a kind of self control and way of thinking changing impulses reactions, into tolerance and understanding and in the end learning how to show the horse what we want without rushing on or beating it up

I have learned it takes me as long as it takes, sometimes years, and sometimes I thought I would never get there, and then just as I gave up and thought I will just ride what the horse can do things have changed big time

I do know that dreams can come true, development through training can happen spectacularly but it takes time and patience, lots of time, and avoiding the violence that comes from frustration of trying to rush on all the time and when it does not work resorting to thrashing, they must know it is unproductive for the horse but still carry on.

 

[cauda equina]

It doesn't matter who you are, whether an elite rider or a hacker of fat cobs -
If you can't achieve your goals while remaining kind and fair, you need to change your goals, not your way of treating your horse

 

[ester]

There’s more

Lee Farino

More video evidence of alleged abuse by Andrew McConnon. Same shit just a different day I suppose. 💩 Allegedly a formal complaint was made to USEF against Andrew McConnon on May 12, 2024 with video...

www.facebook.com

 

[misst]

E

There’s more

Lee Farino

More video evidence of alleged abuse by Andrew McConnon. Same shit just a different day I suppose. 💩 Allegedly a formal complaint was made to USEF against Andrew McConnon on May 12, 2024 with video...

www.facebook.com

Evil barsteward. At least these videos show/prove it is not a "moment in time" but sustained violence

 

[tristars]

Not the way to work a crooked horse, needs to learn shoulder in

 

[ramsaybailey]

I just cannot get this out of my head. The FEI had this information before Burghley WHY was he allowed to compete there??

How many others have been reported with evidence to support? But that haven't been posted on social media?

Seeing all the glory post Burghley articles makes me uncomfortable. I feel like the 'sport' is a lie right now

 

[3OldPonies]

Yet another rider revealed to have less than kind training techniques - obviously that's an understatement. He just came 27th at Burghley (not on this horse I guess), and appears to have a grant from USEF to enable him to train over in the UK. I despair.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0eCm2EUtgoJ6oHHyg14ePUJ1kt6GFPW4PLvFva2hYfq3MMh5ZhX8GewpDCuSKVpJ3l&id=21312558

Disgusting, absolutely sickening

 

[helffrich]

Here is the (very well documented) piece which Eventing Nation published today:

Andrew McConnon Under Investigation for Horse Abuse Allegations: The Timeline, the Facts, and What This Means for Us All - Eventing Nation - Three-Day Eventing News, Results, Videos, and Commentary

After videos surfaced on social media on September 7 depicting, allegedly, CCI5* rider Andrew McConnon hitting horses in the face, both with open hands and with a whip or a rein, questions and rumors quickly

eventingnation.com

 

[Tiddlypom]

Also reported on in Horse Sport magazine. The author of this piece is Pippa Cuckson, who used to report for Horse and Hound (maybe she still does).

Leaked Videos Force USEF to Reveal Rider is Already Under Investigation

While Andrew McConnon competed at Burghley last weekend, images of him allegedly abusing horses on private property were going viral.

horsesport.com

 

[cauda equina]

From the EventingNation article:

There exists a fine line between firm training and discipline and flat-out abuse, and over the years, that line has shifted incrementally and constantly. I don’t have an answer for how to fix the problem of what is or isn’t okay, but I do know this: the starting point is an honest reevaluation of our methods, and owning, even if just in a frank conversation with ourselves, where we’ve personally gone wrong in the past. Only then do we stand a chance of doing better – and we must, too, remember that outside of our small world, there’s no quantifiable reason for any of this to exist, which quickly undermines any argument that any specific method is the only way to train a horse to do something. If there isn’t a strong argument for why the horse should need to know how to do the thing in the first place, how can we argue that abusive methods are a justifiable way to get there?

I think this is absolutely spot on
Is there actually any moral difference between some of the stuff horses are made to do in the name of sport and animals doing tricks in a circus?

 

[southerncomfort]

Genuinely just read a comment on FB saying we shouldn't be so quick to judge as videos can be doctored.

There you go right there...turning a blind eye and refusing to believe the evidence right in front of your eyes. That there is why equestrian sport is an absolute mess.

 

[clairebearfur1]

Yet another rider revealed to have less than kind training techniques - obviously that's an understatement. He just came 27th at Burghley (not on this horse I guess), and appears to have a grant from USEF to enable him to train over in the UK. I despair.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0eCm2EUtgoJ6oHHyg14ePUJ1kt6GFPW4PLvFva2hYfq3MMh5ZhX8GewpDCuSKVpJ3l&id=21312558

This is terrible. I hope someone shares it to the evnting groups on facebook etc Im not sure how to

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think the whole language of horse training needs to change. My head is full of a load of phrases drummed into me as a child which I now really dislike:

'Stop tickling him, BOOT him'.
'That's naughty give him a smack'
'Never let him win'.
'Pull his teeth out'
'Give him a bloody good hiding'
'Give him a good old pony club kick'.

Even breaking in is something I stopped using years ago in favour of starting or backing.

I am sure those instuctors were addressing passive, ineffective riders and by 'BOOT HIM' they actually meant: do somethign vaguely effective with your currently wet-noodle-like leg. BUT what did the riders take away from that?

Just recently in the Lucinda Green Foundations of XC training she repeatedly said the sequence was: "Half-halt. Whoah then: "legs on the dashboard and teeth all over the field." Suggesting leaning back, driving from the leg with full strength on the horses mouth. I'm sure she was using hyperbole to make a point, but does some ambitious rider then go away and think no force is too much force in pursuit of what you want?

I have definietely heard 'he needs to be more scared of you than the jump', and 'leather him' from an RI who I KNOW would be appalled if a horse ever was leathered or scared in one of her lessons. It's just a turn of phrase. But I think language shapes thinking and those phrases just need to be consigned to history really.