Young promising horse but.. WWYD?

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you all, really appreciate your thoughts.

But yours is only 6, which is even more reason to admit defeat for now and turn away, in my opinion. She’s telling you loud and clear, or rather her hock is.

That’s just my opinion, you did ask. I do hope that you find a resolution that works for both of you.

The Arthramid x2 mainly due to the insurance claim coming to an end and having money left, my vet doesn’t agree with steroids in a young horse but thoughts are Arthramid won’t do any damage.

Horses are such heartbreakers!

Thanks again.

 

[teacups]

That was my thoughts. Problem is she’s so genuine, someone could pop a fence up and she’d fly it. I guess it’s just the risk with selling horses, would want to find the right owner.

Like PP, I enjoy hacking, also a bit of light schooling (no access to arena though so any of it is done on a quiet lane) and going on the odd pleasure ride. I have no interest in jumping. There are quite a lot of middle aged and upwards horse women around who no longer wish to jump. That's the kind of home you might want if you decide to retire her from eventing.

You'd want a financially secure one, as it sounds as though there will be issues at some point which will need dealing with. And you might want the middle aged woman not to have too much middle age spread <g>

 

[Bernster]

If it were me I’d probably chuck a load more money at investigating and seeing if I could get her right with treatment, rehab, rest, or whatever was needed as she seems young and talented and you like her. But that’s not everyone’s choice and depends on your circumstances. And may not fix things. But that’s the path I’d go down first. I wouldn’t ride at your current level if it’s causing her some issues. Sorry you’re having to deal with this, it’s rotten.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If it were me I’d probably chuck a load more money at investigating and seeing if I could get her right with treatment, rehab, rest, or whatever was needed as she seems young and talented and you like her. But that’s not everyone’s choice and depends on your circumstances. And may not fix things. But that’s the path I’d go down first. I wouldn’t ride at your current level if it’s causing her some issues. Sorry you’re having to deal with this, it’s rotten.

It’s a difficult one because x-rays since are totally clear. The chip she had removed was large 10mm if I remember right and it had became loose in the time frame we were waiting for a op date getting lodged between the joint. The surgeon couldn’t see any cartilage damage during the op.

She’s a prat in the field, even in 7 acres in a herd which puts me off turning her away. I don’t trust chain vets which is why I found an independent one. I’ll do some research and speak to my current vet, heard Indiba can be worth a try.

 

[DabDab]

To answer the question wwyd... If she was mine I would turn away for a time (9-12 months probably) and hope that her being young would mean that nature stood a fair chance of healing whatever is left to be healed. Particularly if she's fairly active in the field so the joint will be getting used. And then I would bring back into work with an open mind and see how she goes.

Her body is telling you that there is some element of what you are doing with her now that it can't cope with. The educated guess is that it's the hard ground, but it might not be, so with all reasonable diagnostics and medical treatments exhausted I would personally take the conservative approach at this point and turn away.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would try giving Bosmerix .
I think with eventing it’s an extremely intense day for the horse when you put everything together including the travelling .
I would also look a complementary therapies to reduce inflammation post hard work , including icing immediately post xc .

If and it’s a big if you event this horse it going to be a question of being mega careful how much you run her and when and where and how far from home .
If it where me I would just enjoy her at home including some jumping and xc schooling and just enjoy having a horse I like and who likes me .
But I am older now I might have been so cool about when younger .

 

[AandK]

If she were mine, I would want to understand why the hock is getting puffy after increased work, if I wanted to carry on competing. In my mind, there must be something going on to cause that reaction.

 

[Mouse&Bay]

You were always going to get these sorts of replies. Go with your vets advice - the one who sees the horse regularly. It’s a valid view to not compete a compromised horse, but I do think some people can over interpret and form a picture of a lame unhappy horse being asked to do things unethical. In your own words you have a sound horse enjoying the job. Overdid things on not ideal ground.
So be more mindful of the ground. And if you get it wrong then give the horse some Bute. If it keeps happening then you will need to reevaluate.

This x2.

Listen to your vet. They know your goals, they have seen your horse, they have the knowledge and expertise to guide you in workload.

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

 

[Squeak]

It's a really hard one. I think my over riding thought is that even if the ground was firmer on the top, I'd have thought that with the winter we've had it would have still had plenty of give underneath which is the major contributing factor to how hard the ground is to the horses and I just can't see how she's going to stand up to eventing if she went lame after one 70cm ODE.

Have you got any insurance money left? If so I'd probably throw everything you can at trying to find the problem, if you still can't find it or can't fix it or don't have any insurance money left then I'd turn away for a year with the hope that she's a young horse and everything might heal and settle down. I wouldn't be too worried about her hooning around in the field, chances are if she was turned away she'd settle and at least it would mean she's still moving around.

I'm fairly pragmatic about keeping older horses going but a 6 year old that is unsound after a 70cm ODE to me wouldn't be up to the job of eventing. I think it also depends on what your plans are. If you literally want to do one or two 80's a year and everything else you want to do is on a surface and hacking then you could potentially justify it but if you wanted to do more then I think realistically I'd be questioning whether it was the right thing to do for both you and the horse.

There's also the element of your emotional, physical and financial investment into her. Sometimes it's better to look at whether you and the horse and the job you want the horse to do is a square peg and round hole and admit it's not going to happen. Sometimes a horse can not be right for you but give years of pleasure to someone else. I've loaned schoolmasters that needed to step down, if I'd have kept them they'd have been 'broken' by the end of the season, dropping down the levels they went on for another few years.

What's she like jumping on a surface? If she's fine jumping on a surface then potentially you could look at show jumping her and doing some arena eventing? As above if it's not something that interests you then you could loan her to someone who wants to do that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It replaces the fluid, lubricating the joint. It’s possible there is arthritis within the joint but not visible on X-ray.

That’s not quite how Arthramid works. It’s a product that I rate highly. It has a genuinely therapeutic effect, it doesn't randomly numb pain. It is a game changer in the treatment of hock arthritis in particular.

After injection into the joint space, ArthramidVet® hydrogel integrates into the synovial membrane, stabilising the joint capsule, and increasing elasticity which, in turn, reduces the onset and development of synovitis and its harmful effects.

I’d certainly be watching your mare like a hawk from now on to see what work she can stand. Tbh, running on hard and stony ground isn’t going to be great for any horse, let alone a compromised one.

 

[AmyMay]

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

That’s ok then OP. None of the other posters know what they’re talking about . So you’re free to ignore their less than knowledgeable comments

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I think my over riding thought is that even if the ground was firmer on the top, I'd have thought that with the winter we've had it would have still had plenty of give underneath which is the major contributing factor to how hard the ground is to the horses and I just can't see how she's going to stand up to eventing if she went lame after one 70cm ODE.

The ground was rather stony and I know a couple of people who withdrew, looking back - I shouldn't of ran her but thought doing a 70 it wouldn't be too bad. She does tend to over jump everything with 3ft of air, it was also the first time using studs behind, because we were mega early and it was dewy. I guess studs + stony ground = a lot of concussion.

Insurance has ran out sadly. She has never been stiff or sore the following day after jumping on surface. It is a option to only do a couple of ODEs (local ones) and stick to being on a surface although she tends to enjoy cross country much more on grass - I guess that is normal. I have worried more about sharp turns and circles on a surface than open spaces.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

This x2.

Listen to your vet. They know your goals, they have seen your horse, they have the knowledge and expertise to guide you in workload.

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

There's a difference between coming back from a jog or workout feeling generally sore/tired and your joints becoming painful and inflamed though? And there's a difference between exercise that supports us/makes us stronger and exercise which puts force on joints which can't stand up to it.

I don't know enough to have an opinion really OP but think I would be cautious so either rest her for extended period of time then see if she could come back gradually to the job you want her to do, or look for a loan home that can give her a job more in line with what she can do now.

 

[Pinkvboots]

This x2.

Listen to your vet. They know your goals, they have seen your horse, they have the knowledge and expertise to guide you in workload.

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

Most of us athletes ourselves if we are sitting on a horse doing dressage, showing or jumping so I think we all know about aching a bit and feeling a bit sore after a long ride or an intense schooling session.

Going for a jog or the like has nothing to do with it, plus this horses leg is swelling and she has issues and is being medicated so you are potentially damaging it further.

 

[AmyMay]

And just to put my credentials forward- as an athlete- I’ve run at county level….

 

[SEL]

My brother is an ultra runner (he does normal marathons for fun) and I think if he had a seriously swollen knee or ankle the next day even he wouldn't dismiss it and he runs through a lot of discomfort.

OP if you have aspirations and this isn't the horse for what you want to achieve then I'd spend this summer working out what she can comfortably do and loan or sell her on that basis. It sounds like she's fine on a surface so would be ok for many hobby riders, but the harder ground isn't going to work. I do have some regrets about not chasing my aspirations when I was younger and braver so if there are things you genuinely want then there's no shame in saying it might need to be with a different horse.

I feel for anyone wanting to event. We seem to go from bog to concrete in a week.

 

[ycbm]

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

Just to give you my credentials I have evented multiple horses up to BE Novice (see avatar) and as far as I know I am still the Hewlett Packard female employee 5k road race record holder.

There is a world of difference between an athlete accepting "a little bit of hurt" for themselves and exposing a horse, which cannot consent, to it.
.

 

[NinjaPony]

Honestly it sounds like she just might not stand up to eventing. It’s a tough sport, ground conditions make it tougher and it involves a lot of jumping and galloping by its very nature. I would have a think about whether she would be better off in a low level dressage and hacking loan home, if you decide to step back from jumping. Plenty of people I know want a nice well schooled horse for that, and aren’t bothered about the jumping (I’m certainly not!) and that way you could keep a close eye on her. I’m really sorry this is happening to you, it’s absolutely gutting and we all know all too well how you’re feeling.

 

[Tinsel]

I was going to go for the showjumping and the eventing competing but i saw about the crack in her hoof and you don't have insurance just wondering how often does that happened to her just got wondering if a friend who has a horse that you can borrow for the day before you officially owned her when she got the the right age did she have any hoof problems before hand I really hope you can figure some thing out

For the hoof injection how often does the vet have to come out and help you

 

[Boulty]

My personal thoughts would be to run her once more somewhere that looks after their ground. If the same issue occurs then I personally would give up on trying to event on grass as whilst yes you could give her bute afterwards you’re still causing the damage, just masking it.

If she appears to be ok on better ground then I would proceed with caution being very choosy about where you run and how often and with the expectation that she may not stand up to it for very long and that you stop doing it if further issues arise.

If you want a horse you can move up the levels with / to compete properly then she’s highly unlikely to stand up to that and you may be better loaning her out or selling her with the understanding that she can cope with hacking and work on a surface but should not be jumping on grass and needs attention paying to ground conditions.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I was going to go for the showjumping and the eventing competing but i saw about the crack in her hoof and you don't have insurance just wondering how often does that happened to her just got wondering if a friend who has a horse that you can borrow for the day before you officially owned her when she got the the right age did she have any hoof problems before hand I really hope you can figure some thing out

For the hoof injection how often does the vet have to come out and help you

Wrong post

 

[Tinsel]

Wrong post

Sorry about that

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I gave Bute Tuesday, Wednesday late evening my vet asked for a video of her on the lunge trotting 2 circles either rein. In his opinion the Bute would have worn off by then. She had been out 24/7. At first she didn’t want to move, very backwards, ears back, stuffy, not tracking up on either rein. She didn’t look lame though.

I walked her around for a bit, then did the same again and held a lunge whip to encourage her forward. Definitely an improvement and she moved nicely on both reins, her right rein (right hock is the operated hock) was actually lifting and coming through really nicely. Tracking up evenly. The small area of filling in the hock she had, had gone by wednesday.

I’m wondering if she wasn’t’ lame on it, but in fact stiff all over after the event and myself only looking at that right hind instantly assumed it was her joint.

We’ve questioned a muscle condition before only because her muscle enzymes are always higher than they should be. She is on vitamin E, magnesium and a mug of pea protein a day due to this. (I did run out of pea protein on Sunday, so she hasn’t had any for 4 days, maybe a related factor not sure) She’s been forward and keen until now, but maybe it was all too much on the weekend. I then gave her 3 days off, which maybe didn’t help if it is muscle related.

Anyway, waiting for my vet to get back to me. Just wanted to blurt my thinking.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It seems to me that you need to decide whether this horse is first and foremost a disposable tool to allow you to progress towards achieving your ambitions or a pet/member of the family, or maybe somewhere between the 2.
Just be aware that if she is a tool, she likely won't be able to progress very far with you before she is broken and needs to be replaced.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

et the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

And just to put my credentials forward- as an athlete- I’ve run at county level….

Like AmyMay I also ran at county and national level, long jumped and high jumped at national level and netball at county level the latter into my 30s, I have to say I don't recall ever needing to take anything for being sore or even remotely uncomfortable. I was young, fit and an athlete. Had I needed to medicate to continue with my sport at such a young age I would have given up full stop. If I had a horse of similar age that is already showing signs of breaking down even at low level competition I would be turning away for a year. If still unable to cope by this time next year I would be using as a happy hacker or selling to a trusted happy hacker home.

But work away if your horse is a means to and end for you, personally for me I have never owned a horse that was merely a means to an end.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

This x2.

Listen to your vet. They know your goals, they have seen your horse, they have the knowledge and expertise to guide you in workload.

I get the sense that many of these posters have never played any sports or gone for a jog … sometimes you’re sore the next day. It is the life of an athlete, whether human or horse. As long as you are not causing harm, a little bit of hurt is perfectly fine. Your vet can help you understand that line.

*laughs somewhat hysterically in chronic pain*

The thing with ongoing pain, is that you get used to the feel of it eventually, but that doesn't mean that it stops hurting. Just that you learn to keep on going despite it. Except when you can't, and you end up sleeping half the day away because the low level exhaustion has piled up enough to knock you out. And you have less and less patience for those around you because it fecking hurts all the dratted time. And sometimes that means that you snap.

Now imagine how a horse does the above things.

 

[Snowfilly]

I used to play a lot of sport, football and running and swimming as well as a lot of long days riding and aside from a few specific days when there was an incident like a fall or a bad tackle, I never needed painkillers or rest afterwards.

I now have a buggered ankle and it swells and aches after exercise, and to be honest it makes me grumpy and apprehensive about running even though I know it’s good for me and I know a lot of strategies to deal with it. There’s no way I’d inflict that on an animal who doesn’t understand it.

It sounds like you need to decide if you want to compete this horse or have a happy, healthy horse. The two sound rather contradictory.

 

[Ambers Echo]

The thing about vets is that many of them view horses as livestock and not pets. They treat horses who are working animals with a job to do, and as long as they are doing that job without evident distress then that's considered ok. Just think how many horses fail vettings. The majority of horses who fail the vet are doing the job already. Ie a vet declares them NOT FIT for the job they are currently doing. Ignoring bad vettings (which are definitely a thing!), this trigges some owners into changing their management. Others roll their eyes at the vet and carry on as normal. However none of those owners would have stopped riding before the vetting. Because - dodgy dealers aside - no-one agrees to a vetting they think will fail, or puts a horse that not fit for the work it is being advertised for up for sale.

I have often been struck by the mismatch between vet advice in a buying/selling situation and vet advice on a horse you want to keep riding. When I talk to vets I deliberately try and balance it up - I ask vetting vets to be pragmatic, not picky, and I ask treating vets 'would you pass the horse as fit for the work - even if only after treatment'.

I am not saying one approach is better than the other - I just like to be aware of the different 'bars' vets set for different questions in different contexts to help me weigh up options.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thanks all for taking time to comment.

Need to have a really good think, ultimately her happiness and comfort is top of my priority. I’m not a bad owner, she gets everything she needs and more than the majority would do. She looks amazing and it has been complemented by her saddle fitter, physio etc.

If her being in a happy hack loan home is what she needs, she will get that. I feel sad I’ve backed, produced this lovely horse myself and were unable to achieved what I dreamt of together. It helps to hear others thoughts so thanks all.

 

[JFTDWS]

I feel sad I’ve backed, produced this lovely horse myself and were unable to achieved what I dreamt of together.

This is the dismal reality of horses. It’s one everyone encounters if they start a few horses - and actually listen / care if the horse isn’t quite right.

I couldn’t, in all good conscience, continue to compete a horse which was going to be sore the next day, or have swollen joints, especially in such a young horse.

But it does sound like you have some investigating and experimenting to do. Eventing - even at low heights - is a tough job. Hopefully you can find a productive middle ground and your mare will be comfortable and happy with that, whether with you or loaned out.