Youngster playing or more sinister?

[lannerch]

Strangely, none of my horses are afraid of me, nor are they violent. Theories are all very well, but out here in the real world it is sometimes necessary to exert the odd physical reprimand. I'm afraid that I'm not about to allow any horse to bite me, no matter who it belongs to, and I'm not going to wait for permission to reprimand it either.

My horses neither , they have always been reprimanded where necessary and people always remark how polite and well behaved they are. My yard has always had my permission to reprimand them too if the need arises except they never need to.

 

[Sandstone1]

Strangely, none of my horses are afraid of me, nor are they violent. Theories are all very well, but out here in the real world it is sometimes necessary to exert the odd physical reprimand. I'm afraid that I'm not about to allow any horse to bite me, no matter who it belongs to, and I'm not going to wait for permission to reprimand it either.

Strangely, none of my horses are afraid of me, nor are they violent. Theories are all very well, but out here in the real world it is sometimes necessary to exert the odd physical reprimand. I'm afraid that I'm not about to allow any horse to bite me, no matter who it belongs to, and I'm not going to wait for permission to reprimand it either.

Strangely, none of my horses are afraid of me, nor are they violent. Theories are all very well, but out here in the real world it is sometimes necessary to exert the odd physical reprimand. I'm afraid that I'm not about to allow any horse to bite me, no matter who it belongs to, and I'm not going to wait for permission to reprimand it either.

Its not a theory I have had horse for 40 years and my method works. Sorry but if you hit a horse of mine you would very quickly be told whats what. Im not getting in to a pointless rant here. Horses being hit round the head is a real pet hate of mine im afraid.
I dont know whats going one with the quote function by the way! I didnt do it on purpose

 

[southerncomfort]

I'm not sure that I'd assume someone on the yard has smacked him for biting. It may have happened before you bought him and he might have remembered that lesson and not bitten again. Until that is, he is put in a position that makes him feel stressed and anxious, I.e moving home and having no company.

I think he's trying to tell you in the only way he can that he's unhappy.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I had a little tb. He was biter , not a nipper. I had a chap out to help me with ground work and he saw the tb try to bite me. We carried on and the next time he tried the chap belted him straight across the nose. The horse ran back then stood. He said leave him a minute, then go make friends and carry on. That horse never bit again and was never head shy.

 

[Sandstone1]

I had a little tb. He was biter , not a nipper. I had a chap out to help me with ground work and he saw the tb try to bite me. We carried on and the next time he tried the chap belted him straight across the nose. The horse ran back then stood. He said leave him a minute, then go make friends and carry on. That horse never bit again and was never head shy.

It really makes me sad that people think its ok to treat animals like this.

 

[Snowfilly]

It really makes me sad that people think its ok to treat animals like this.

Having watched plenty of mares wallop misbehaving foals and youngstock with both barrels, I really don’t think a short sharp whack from a human is an issue.

I’ve never had to hit a biter twice, and never had one go headshy. Teeth = instant smack. Lesson learnt.

I did however know a woman who ended up with two lots of stitches after someone’s spoilt pet with a history of nipping got carried away and bit her. The spoilt pet was shot that afternoon, a waste of a nice young horse’s life because the owner wouldn’t discipline it. Horses are far too dangerous to risk behaviour like that.

 

[Cortez]

It really makes me sad that people think its ok to treat animals like this.

What would you have done? Have you ever been bitten by a horse? I have, and I've seen other people badly injured too. The horse was reprimanded, wasn't traumatised by it and never did it again. Sounds like a good outcome to me. What would you do?

 

[Sandstone1]

What would you have done? Have you ever been bitten by a horse? I have, and I've seen other people badly injured too. The horse was reprimanded, wasn't traumatised by it and never did it again. Sounds like a good outcome to me. What would you do?

Yes I have been bitten by a horse more than once. Once on the boob actually quite badly. I have already said what i would do and if wasnt my horse I would not take it upon myself to reprimand it.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Sorry if I missed this information, how old is your youngster?

If young enough I would be looking to beg/steal/borrow an older mare that has bred at least a couple of foals to keep your youngster company in the field for a good few months. 99% guarantee he will very soon remember his manners!

It's entirely possible he never actually learned the ways of the world at weaning and after, and staff are now starting to see and are dealing with the results of this gap in his education long before he came to you.

Obviously can't say this is the case but just another perspective, and not an unusual one unfortunately.

 

[Cortez]

Yes I have been bitten by a horse more than once. Once on the boob actually quite badly. I have already said what i would do and if wasnt my horse I would not take it upon myself to reprimand it.

Having been present when someone had their top lip ripped off by a horse, also taken someone else to hospital with two severed fingers and had a large part of my back bitten open, I am not prepared to let a horse be baby talked through a potentially very dangerous vice. Biting is never excusable and needs immediate correction, something mares will do with their foals. Good luck with your young horse OP, I hope you can sort him out before he hurts someone.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Its not up to someone else to hit a horse that does not belong to them... They should speak to the owner. A horse that bites is not on, but there are other ways of stopping it rather than wacking it! Great way to make a horse head shy.

you must not handle anyone else’s horses nor have your horse on herd turnout. There are ten geldings in our winter gelding herd and Ive chased/struck a few with the end of a leadrope when removing mine from the field to make them move out of my space to get my horses out. how would you accomplish this with a particularly stubborn horse that’s not afraid of the voice?

My friend had my youngsters leadrope torn from her hand on the road in the pitch black the other night because another horse decided they were barging out the gate. How do you resolve that on DIY livery? Speak kindly to the horses and request they let you out please? Video it if you do. I’d love to see the response.

I’ve smacked a horse that crushed me against a gate with its chest and nearly broke my leg, wasn’t my horse but by god did it get a few belts round the head to get it to back off. Horse is still here, still bolshy and still charging at people getting their horses out of the field. Clearly not that traumatised.

OP my youngster has munched me. Usually once a year. He gets a quick reprimand on the muzzle and rethinks his choices. He’s not head shy and not traumatised.

If it comes between my safety and someone else’s horse then I’ll use any means to ensure my safety. The owner can come see me with the have an issue, they will be told in shirt order to teach their horse some manners

 

[Sandstone1]

Having been present when someone had their top lip ripped off by a horse, also taken someone else to hospital with two severed fingers and had a large part of my back bitten open, I am not prepared to let a horse be baby talked through a potentially very dangerous vice. Biting is never excusable and needs immediate correction, something mares will do with their foals. Good luck with your young horse OP, I hope you can sort him out before he hurts someone.

Strange that their are so ill mannered horses about...

 

[Cortez]

Strange that their are so ill mannered horses about...

I used to be a professional horse trainer. I've had to sort out a lot of other people's problem horses. 100's of them.

 

[Sandstone1]

I used to be a professional horse trainer. I've had to sort out a lot of other people's problem horses. 100's of them.

I still think its wrong to hit a horse round the head. We will have to agree to differ as I dont think hitting a horse is training it.

 

[Cortez]

I still think its wrong to hit a horse round the head. We will have to agree to differ as I dont think hitting a horse is training it.

OK, off you go then. Good luck!
PS: I didn't say to hit a horse around the head, if you recall I said to poke him in the gob; different.

 

[Sandstone1]

OK, off you go then. Good luck!

Thanks.

 

[Snowfilly]

I still think its wrong to hit a horse round the head. We will have to agree to differ as I dont think hitting a horse is training it.

I’ll be sure to tell this to our boss mare the next time she boots some uppity yearling into the next county because it nipped or climbed on her!

 

[Sandstone1]

I’ll be sure to tell this to our boss mare the next time she boots some uppity yearling into the next county because it nipped or climbed on her!

we are not horses are we? This is silly. I dont agree with hitting horse round the head. Am i allowed to have that opinion? Others may think its ok. I dont

 

[honetpot]

I have had a few colts over the years, sometimes I do not geld them till they are about four, and they learn pretty quick after one nip, they get a hand slap across the muzzle and they have never done it again.
The two ponies I had who were bought in, and are confirmed biters were both bought like that, one could put his mouth around your arm, and the other a crafty nip, but they are never thumped for it, because someone at some time made this their only way of showing this is the only way to retaliate, and then retreat quickly. They are, well one is now dead, very bright amiable safe children's ponies, you just learnt what their pressure points were, avoided them and learned to avoid their teeth.
The putting ears back would worry me more than the actual bite, something is not right, open friendly horses do not change, in my experience unless there is a reason, and I would get it out as quickly as possible. If he is starting to resent you, that makes things very difficult, even if you did not start it.

 

[exracehorse]

Strangely, none of my horses are afraid of me, nor are they violent. Theories are all very well, but out here in the real world it is sometimes necessary to exert the odd physical reprimand. I'm afraid that I'm not about to allow any horse to bite me, no matter who it belongs to, and I'm not going to wait for permission to reprimand it either.

one of my youngsters bit me really really hard back in the summer. He was tied up as well. He had been going through the nippy stroppy stage. I was doubled up in pain. Literally. Crying. I’m only slim. He got both ribs. And took a lump out. Photo of my side. And I admit .. I did smack him on the arse. I was so shocked. So angry and his lack of respect. He didn’t do it again.

 

[Lois Lame]

Fern007 said, 'I had a little tb. He was biter , not a nipper. I had a chap out to help me with ground work and he saw the tb try to bite me. We carried on and the next time he tried the chap belted him straight across the nose. The horse ran back then stood. He said leave him a minute, then go make friends and carry on. That horse never bit again and was never head shy.'

sandstone1 replied, 'It really makes me sad that people think its ok to treat animals like this.'

(I'm having trouble with the quote button so if there's repeated quotes here, it's the computer's carry on.)
*cough*

I 'liked' Fern's post so I feel the need to explain myself. Yes, it seems extreme what that fellow did, and maybe it was extreme. I'd expect a horse to do nothing more than raise its head, say the horse equivalant of "Oh my God," and nothing more. I've never seen a head shy horse made head shy by a well-deserved smack on the muzzle.

 

[stangs]

Excluding the fact that horses do not have a concept of respect as we humans do, and the fact that literature of dominance/“boss mares” is dubious at best, I will add a little quote from a very good book on behaviour.

“View problematic behaviours as adaptive responses and not purposeful misbehaviour”

In the moment, there may be times where one must do something to a horse that one would rather not in the situation where it is necessary. But hitting a horse is not a long term solution, and will never solve the issue of why the behaviour happened in the first place.

I will also add that, in a world where phrases like “listen to your horse whisper” are tossed around all over the place, biting imo is a very clear shout. And hitting is not listening.

 

[Cortez]

Excluding the fact that horses do not have a concept of respect as we humans do, and the fact that literature of dominance/“boss mares” is dubious at best, I will add a little quote from a very good book on behaviour.

“View problematic behaviours as adaptive responses and not purposeful misbehaviour”

In the moment, there may be times where one must do something to a horse that one would rather not in the situation where it is necessary. But hitting a horse is not a long term solution, and will never solve the issue of why the behaviour happened in the first place.

I will also add that, in a world where phrases like “listen to your horse whisper” are tossed around all over the place, biting imo is a very clear shout. And hitting is not listening.

Good luck with that!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

On a slightly lighter note, many years ago my then very young donkey took a very strong and meaningful grip on my posterior as I bent to clean out one of his front hooves! I yelped loudly and sprung up bashing my face straight into the side of his head.

One of his very big ears swiped across my mouth and I instantly bit down on it very hard indeed! I don't know who was more surprised by the very fitting instant reprisal, him or I!?

He is now in his twenties and has never shown the slightest inclination to bite me or anybody else since... Oh and he isn't head or ear shy either.

 

[paddy555]

I will also add that, in a world where phrases like “listen to your horse whisper” are tossed around all over the place, biting imo is a very clear shout. And hitting is not listening.

it's a young horse. It is behaving to humans as it would to another horse. That is part of the job description of young horses. Another horse would not counsel it, listen to it whisper and then analyse exactly what it meant, did it have a problem in it's childhood etc. It would be straight in to correct it. The youngster would have learnt the lesson. End of.

On a less lighter note I got bitten, it became infected, operation to debride the wound, plastic surgery that didn't work and nearly 2 weeks in hospital.

I too would be keen on the biting idea Mrs Jingle, however the cost of the dentist if it went wrong puts me off.

 

[Arzada]

Excluding the fact that horses do not have a concept of respect as we humans do

I know/knew many horses who would correct this for you
'Excluding the fact that horses humans do not have a concept of respect as we humans horses do'

 

[PurBee]

I’ve been bitten by both my horses early on. 2 different scenarios, 2 different remedies required.

My young gelding at 18 months old came back from being in a herd, where he was the bottom of the food ladder in that herd. He came back as a nipper to handlers leading him. He went away at 6 months old a little darling easy to handle, feet, lead etc and returned as a grouchy mouthy belligerent moody teen!

He would always nip when being lead then suddenly raise his head out of the way evidently expecting a reaction to his nip.

Whether previous handlers had whacked him or whether the herd dynamics taught him to nip and quickly move away, i cannot be sure.
Now hes older it turns out he’s a naturally very oral horse anyway, chews everything, loves mouthing anything new, never known such a mouth-curious horse.

In your case if your horse is on individual turnout, you can suspect handlers have reprimanded that nipping muzzle.

Horses soft bite pull skin to each other to reprimand - the elder mare of the gelding does it when he ‘play nips’ her. I often mimic this and use a pinch to their shoulder when there’s misbehaving as i see them do that to each other. It works, a well-timed pinch.

The gelding stopped nipping me when i flicked my finger at his lips, immediately after nipping, voice command ‘no’, also as i was leading him, i could direct his muzzle away.
Initially before flicking his lips, i’d turn and say no - he’d raise his head expecting a different reaction. Every lead time he’d either fake a nip or lightly nip, pulling my jacket, and id use the lead rein to turn his muzzle away and say no. This went on and on. It was like play to him, but my gentle method of saying no and moving his muzzle away didnt alter the behaviour.

So 1 time after an actual nip, i finger flicked his muzzle, with voice ‘no’. That worked. He faked nipped attempted after that and all i had to do was raise my finger , say no, didnt have to flick his muzzle. In the end he stopped even trying a fake nip.
He’s quite a playful gelding, even now he’s older. Curious to mouth whatever i bring into their area.
He’s always gentle with his mouthing, and im thankful i nipped the nipping in the bud when i did by flicking his muzzle as his natural mouthy nature meant he‘s learnt to mouth safely/repectfully, before it became a more vicious ingrained habit.

Its lovely now, as he can express himself safely, knowing boundaries, and he nuzzles my face, hair, anything and everything with that mouth of his.

I realised as a young gelding he was trying to assert dominance in this new ‘tiny’ herd, and was using his mouth as others horses had used theirs on him, but that included humans too - so literally a well-timed flick of my finger on his lips like im flicking away a fly on a table - is all it took to teach him, no.
He learnt quick and isnt headshy. Loves to nuzzle his head in my body for a full scratch. There’s trust and there’s also the knowledge to not use his mouth teeth on me.

I agree, theres no need for a hard muzzle slap in reaction to a crafty nip. The reprimand gets firmer if the behaviour repeats or if its an aggressive bite. It rarely needs repeating. They learn quickly. I also agree with posters that say theres no talking a horse to not bite when leading, and its a behaviour we have to address before its becomes a dangerous habit for the horse.
A biting horse that continues to bite despite a muzzle slap, is a worry tbh.


Horse bite number 2 was a full on aggressive shoulder bite off a mature mare, when she hadnt long been with me and also had a foal here, already was foul-proud and had turned aggressive early-on after foaling. This was week 4 or 5 after foaling and by that point she was fine with me around them both. They were both in an open fronted barn and i was bending down infront of them, shaking out hay on the floor for her. She lunged at me with full force bite into my shoulder. I sprang up, raised my arms and got ‘big’ energy, stomping forward, firmly saying ‘back’ - to force her back from the food and into the back of the barn. She was so shocked at my speed and firm energy (im naturally gentle) she moved back quickly, and i held her there until she looked better at me/felt the time was right - then invited her to the food. She never attempted a bite, nip ever again after that. She’s become very gentle, and super to handle. Didnt need to touch her mouth to teach her not to bite as i had other training options available (me dominating the food and gained ranking/respect by managing that).

 

[milliepops]

Context is everything.
My super polite bite-inhibited mare nipped me while I was tacking up this time last year. She was telling me she had ulcers. It was so far out of character there was no need to tell her off imo.

My foal bit me around the same time. She did that because she hadn't been taught not to, (it hadn't arisen before) so I told her, and she's never done it since. If I hadn't acted straight away she wouldn't have picked up the lesson. You haven't got to be rough, whatever you do, but you have got to be quick.

Re handling other people's horses... if you take the view that when you interact with a horse you're either training or untraining it, I feel that you must react if a horse bites you.

 

[GSD Woman]

one of my youngsters bit me really really hard back in the summer. He was tied up as well. He had been going through the nippy stroppy stage. I was doubled up in pain. Literally. Crying. I’m only slim. He got both ribs. And took a lump out. Photo of my side. And I admit .. I did smack him on the arse. I was so shocked. So angry and his lack of respect. He didn’t do it again. View attachment 83391

Holy crap that looks right painful. I don't blame you for giving your horse a smack.

When I was a working boarder one of the ponies like to nip when being blanketed. She got one swift smack from me and never did it again. It was an automatic reaction on my part but it worked.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I hare see

It really makes me sad that people think its ok to treat animals like this.

I hate seeing it but being on the receiving end of a bite, not a nip, I'm afraid it needed sorting. My friend held him for me to mount one day and he bit her stomach. What a mess. He was told once , with that smack, that it was unacceptable. That was it, job done. I only wish that chap had come out sooner.