ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
You mean that isn't the definition of winning?!? ��
It is for me
Depends which of my two horses I'm on
A musing from a grumpy old git.
- Thread starter PaddyMonty
- Start date
Depends which of my two horses I'm on
ester
Not slacking multitasking
No that was more in response to the people mentioning you just save for more training
. I am wondering though whether P+M has asked those he has come across that say they would love to do XYZ why they aren't doing it, as I am pretty sure they likely have their valid reasons.
Regandal
Well-Known Member
I agree with PM about one thing. The standard of instruction around my area is not mediocre, it is dire. The worst part is that the riders don't seem to realise how awful it is.
Another friend was given two blocks of lessons at a very prestigious equestrian centre as a gift. Twenty lessons. She was no further forward at the end of them. She did suspect 'they're just telling me what I want to hear. Not pushing me'. Waste of time and money.
Another friend was given two blocks of lessons at a very prestigious equestrian centre as a gift. Twenty lessons. She was no further forward at the end of them. She did suspect 'they're just telling me what I want to hear. Not pushing me'. Waste of time and money.
Cheiro1
Well-Known Member
A few over the years, all at least BHSI and certainly qualified by experience, although not as regularly as I'd like for a vast number of un-avoidable reasons.
Interestingly the person who's boosted me the most with my jumping recently has been my dressage trainer in the last 6 months, who has moved away from working on HOW we jump and is instead forcing me to analyse how I THINK about jumping and then we break that down into logical chunks and work around them
He'll say to me "OK, but why do you say X, Y and Z" or "OK, but why do you think that" and then we discuss.On an unrelated point - re the going to competitions to compete - I go SJing with the aim of getting round, I take all the long routes and just focus on getting a nice round. Occasionally recently in the small classes I've turned a bit tighter but for the most part I certainly don't "compete" - I'm normally a minute slower than anyone who gets placed!
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
I was musing on this thread while riding this morning.
I think part of the answer to PM's original question is courage.
It doesn't matter what level someone is riding at, but to do more, to push themselves further, whether at home or in competition, takes courage .
Yes, time, money, talent, ambition all also play a part, but for the person who took 3 years to jump 70cm - that took courage.
I think riding IS more accessible than it used to be and more people are taking it up who might well have been daunted in the past - the reduction of jump sizes etc has made jumping smaller fences more acceptable and so more people are giving it a go. Takes courage to get on a horse for the first time, takes courage to get back on after the first (or hundredth) fall.
Takes courage to push out of the comfort zone - it's the saying "feel the fear - and do it anyway! "
I think part of the answer to PM's original question is courage.
It doesn't matter what level someone is riding at, but to do more, to push themselves further, whether at home or in competition, takes courage .
Yes, time, money, talent, ambition all also play a part, but for the person who took 3 years to jump 70cm - that took courage.
I think riding IS more accessible than it used to be and more people are taking it up who might well have been daunted in the past - the reduction of jump sizes etc has made jumping smaller fences more acceptable and so more people are giving it a go. Takes courage to get on a horse for the first time, takes courage to get back on after the first (or hundredth) fall.
Takes courage to push out of the comfort zone - it's the saying "feel the fear - and do it anyway! "
nikkimariet
Well-Known Member
Not sure... Last year was meant to be my Advanced debut with Fig. Neither of us were ready. The changes were too fragile and I wasn't able to help him enough.
I suppose this year you could argue we weren't really ready either, but we were more ready than before lol so ***** it life is too short. We had a bash. Bloody wicked score and now competing fairly competently at PSG.
Is the work perfect? Nope. But then I could take him round a prelim and still get a shoddy mark for screwing up a transition cause well that's life...
Experience counts for so much and you have to (and need to) be able to integrate that into their training as a whole. There's no point being able to ride a test perfectly at home if your competition nerves are shot and your horse is a spooky **** that will down tools as soon as it hears a tannoy or sees a flag etc. Get out there and have a go!!!
Of course, with XC (and SJ to a point) if you get it wrong at a certain height or speed it does indeed go very badly wrong. Luckily the worst that will happen for me is a rubbish score!
I suppose this year you could argue we weren't really ready either, but we were more ready than before lol so ***** it life is too short. We had a bash. Bloody wicked score and now competing fairly competently at PSG.
Is the work perfect? Nope. But then I could take him round a prelim and still get a shoddy mark for screwing up a transition cause well that's life...
Experience counts for so much and you have to (and need to) be able to integrate that into their training as a whole. There's no point being able to ride a test perfectly at home if your competition nerves are shot and your horse is a spooky **** that will down tools as soon as it hears a tannoy or sees a flag etc. Get out there and have a go!!!
Of course, with XC (and SJ to a point) if you get it wrong at a certain height or speed it does indeed go very badly wrong. Luckily the worst that will happen for me is a rubbish score!
LittleRooketRider
Well-Known Member
A thought provoking thread... This could be long....
I have always been one to strive for progression & to achieve goals, particularly when riding. I'm competitive & could be considered a bold rider.... Probably just a nutter.
I always felt that to do my horse/pony justice I had to believe in them & put the hours & focus in...
This led to/ resulted in my most amazing homebred pony, just 13'2, we grew up together, I broke her in & produced her to PC championships & every jumping final/championship I knew of ( up to & including 1.10m). We hunted with the BV & Cattistock... And I'd be damned if my pride & joy was going to be outdone by those who turned their nose up at her ( on account of her size). We flew whatever was in front of us be it a a 6ft hedge, timber , SJ, XC etc. To this day I am convinced this confidence is because I believed unwaveringly in her & I guess or at least like to think she had some shred of belief in me.
A lot of new people I know (not all) either don't want to spend the money, buy something cheap, minimal if any instruction & think they know it all when they win the local 70 Or, they splash out big time on an inappropriate but flashy, proven bloodlines, guaranteed to win yaddayaddd yadda... & are therefore by rites an expert.
Just my musings as they popped in to my head
I have always been one to strive for progression & to achieve goals, particularly when riding. I'm competitive & could be considered a bold rider.... Probably just a nutter.
I always felt that to do my horse/pony justice I had to believe in them & put the hours & focus in...
This led to/ resulted in my most amazing homebred pony, just 13'2, we grew up together, I broke her in & produced her to PC championships & every jumping final/championship I knew of ( up to & including 1.10m). We hunted with the BV & Cattistock... And I'd be damned if my pride & joy was going to be outdone by those who turned their nose up at her ( on account of her size). We flew whatever was in front of us be it a a 6ft hedge, timber , SJ, XC etc. To this day I am convinced this confidence is because I believed unwaveringly in her & I guess or at least like to think she had some shred of belief in me.
A lot of new people I know (not all) either don't want to spend the money, buy something cheap, minimal if any instruction & think they know it all when they win the local 70 Or, they splash out big time on an inappropriate but flashy, proven bloodlines, guaranteed to win yaddayaddd yadda... & are therefore by rites an expert.
Just my musings as they popped in to my head
LittleRooketRider
Well-Known Member
Just to add.... I realise I've gone off on a tangent here....& to clarify I do not think all l beginners are disaster, it's just a recurring theme I've noticed over the last couple of years.
Beginners should always be encouraged, all achievements ( be that 4* completion or getting over a fear of jumping or even getting back in the saddle) should be recognised, & I should really learn to not type out long posts on my phone! It's painfully slow!!😂
pennandh
Well-Known Member
I'm going to stick my hand up now and admit to being someone who competes rather a way below what I'm probably technically capable of.
A big part of it is probably that I'm not the world's bravest rider. I can't fault the instruction I've had; nor could I really be described as overhorsed (I'm 5'7" and I've shared a 13.1hh Highland with my sisters for the last 11 years).
My confidence is actually much better since I had some instruction in both jousting and stunt-riding a few years back, but I still don't like to jump more than 2'9" without a side-saddle (in which I've successfully cleared 4' by accident and am therefore less fussed by slightly bigger jumps), and I've never really got around to doing more than Prelim dressage, despite the fact that both my steed and I are apparently perfectly capable of at least Elementary if I could summon up the nerve.
To be honest, my bravery-increasing plan at the moment consists of hopefully going out for a few half-days with the non-jumping pack of one of my local hunts next season (provided pony and I are both sufficiently fit and sound), and maybe trying an unaffiliated Novice test or two over the winter. Not terribly ambitious, perhaps, but if it goes well we can use it as a springboard to greater things. Little steps.
A big part of it is probably that I'm not the world's bravest rider. I can't fault the instruction I've had; nor could I really be described as overhorsed (I'm 5'7" and I've shared a 13.1hh Highland with my sisters for the last 11 years).
My confidence is actually much better since I had some instruction in both jousting and stunt-riding a few years back, but I still don't like to jump more than 2'9" without a side-saddle (in which I've successfully cleared 4' by accident and am therefore less fussed by slightly bigger jumps), and I've never really got around to doing more than Prelim dressage, despite the fact that both my steed and I are apparently perfectly capable of at least Elementary if I could summon up the nerve.
To be honest, my bravery-increasing plan at the moment consists of hopefully going out for a few half-days with the non-jumping pack of one of my local hunts next season (provided pony and I are both sufficiently fit and sound), and maybe trying an unaffiliated Novice test or two over the winter. Not terribly ambitious, perhaps, but if it goes well we can use it as a springboard to greater things. Little steps.
Curly_Feather
Well-Known Member
I've really enjoyed the thoughtful replies to this thread, great topic!
I know quite a few people who would love to do better / more, especially in dressage. But they struggle to get there. A lot of it seems to be based on the fear of not being perfect, and the fear that other people will be watching and judging. To some degree, we all probably dread other people judging us, but as Nikki Mariet says:
I know quite a few people who would love to do better / more, especially in dressage. But they struggle to get there. A lot of it seems to be based on the fear of not being perfect, and the fear that other people will be watching and judging. To some degree, we all probably dread other people judging us, but as Nikki Mariet says:
Lexi_
Well-Known Member
I've been musing over this as well...
In a sport like running, (which has some parallels to, say, dressage, in the sense that it's much more popular at the lower levels than it used to be and that you can train by yourself and then go to comps to get an official time/score), people are quite happy doing Parkruns and 5/10ks and gradually working on improving their own time. Not everyone wants to go on and run a full or half marathon but there's plenty of support and encouragement for those who are happy sticking at the lower level. Does anyone say to them "oh all humans are capable of running a half marathon - challenge yourself a bit more"?
Obviously it's a bit of comparing apples with oranges but it's something I've been pondering.
In a sport like running, (which has some parallels to, say, dressage, in the sense that it's much more popular at the lower levels than it used to be and that you can train by yourself and then go to comps to get an official time/score), people are quite happy doing Parkruns and 5/10ks and gradually working on improving their own time. Not everyone wants to go on and run a full or half marathon but there's plenty of support and encouragement for those who are happy sticking at the lower level. Does anyone say to them "oh all humans are capable of running a half marathon - challenge yourself a bit more"?
Obviously it's a bit of comparing apples with oranges but it's something I've been pondering.
Lucyad
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread, though provoking....
I used to be more competitive, bought a young horse, enjoyed the feeling of 'progressing' from lots of lessons, working towards (riding club level) competitions, and hoped to BE one day (just at low levels, he is half Clydesdale and no Mulry's Error). Horse was diagnosed with bone spavin years ago, and I decided not to push things, I would rather have him sound for a long time. We therefore haven't got any more accomplished for the last..errr..7 or so years! (often getting worse instead). However we have had great fun in our 11 years together. And he could BE 80 and prob 90 even with his creaky legs...but as we aren't going to progress significantly, I guess I just thought it would be more fun (and cheaper) just to do unaffiliated (and preferably not all on 1 day, as that is a bit of a slog). I keep the mileage low and prioritise what we enjoy the most (hunting). I do enjoy lessons and the odd SJ and XC, but we are always there just to have fun. And it leaves me time and energy to do more with my family (and daughter who is ironically now super competitive on her pony!).
I used to be more competitive, bought a young horse, enjoyed the feeling of 'progressing' from lots of lessons, working towards (riding club level) competitions, and hoped to BE one day (just at low levels, he is half Clydesdale and no Mulry's Error). Horse was diagnosed with bone spavin years ago, and I decided not to push things, I would rather have him sound for a long time. We therefore haven't got any more accomplished for the last..errr..7 or so years! (often getting worse instead
). However we have had great fun in our 11 years together. And he could BE 80 and prob 90 even with his creaky legs...but as we aren't going to progress significantly, I guess I just thought it would be more fun (and cheaper) just to do unaffiliated (and preferably not all on 1 day, as that is a bit of a slog). I keep the mileage low and prioritise what we enjoy the most (hunting). I do enjoy lessons and the odd SJ and XC, but we are always there just to have fun. And it leaves me time and energy to do more with my family (and daughter who is ironically now super competitive on her pony!).{97702}
...
I honestly don't know what the answer is for me. I have been riding for 25 years and I have made sure I have had regular tuition from well qualified and experienced instructors during that time, but to my mind I really don't seem to improve hugely.
If you can suggest why this might be PM I would be very interested (seriously, not being funny or taking offence!) - it is something I really want to be good at, but even though I have great instructors it doesn't seem to work for me. I have been told I try too hard....perhaps in the past I haven't had the best horses.... but that shouldn't really be an excuse. I would hope I try hard enough, I really don't expect it to happen without some serious hard work!
If you can suggest why this might be PM I would be very interested (seriously, not being funny or taking offence!) - it is something I really want to be good at, but even though I have great instructors it doesn't seem to work for me. I have been told I try too hard....perhaps in the past I haven't had the best horses.... but that shouldn't really be an excuse. I would hope I try hard enough, I really don't expect it to happen without some serious hard work!
VRIN
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;13353580 said:
Now here's something I can empathise with!! I shall await the replies with interest!
However just to add a different thought stream..
Prompted by the Olympics and the discussions about what makes a champion I have given much thought to the idea that top athletes (regardless of discipline) are resilient and use failure as a motivator .. For most of us the fear of failure is what prevents us from achieving things that we dream of. A top athlete is not afraid to fail.
Today I so nearly talked myself out of entering a competition .. (hot to trot would talk about the monkey on your back!!) thinking about this thread and my olympic musings I thought .. what was the worse that could happen - I could fail (had me heading back to the lorry !!) but then I thought what if I didn't fail .. (seems quite a simple discussion with self but proved quite a dilemma) However to cut a long story short .. i went for it... and DID IT! Yeh!!
Maybe the 'monkey on your back' that fear of failure is the thing that stops us ...
Just a thought
daffy44
Well-Known Member
Levrier, thats a good question, I dont know you well enough to be sure of the answer, but I can try some suggestions? I think VRIN has a really good point, fear of failure is a huge inhibitor, and there is a big difference between not being well prepared, and just being too worried to try. I was teaching a client at the weekend who is competing at RC Prelim dressage, I asked her if she had done a Novice yet, and she said no she couldnt, she wasnt good enough. I asked her if she had read through some novice tests, so she had a good idea of the requirements, and she said she had. I then asked her if she had read anything she felt she couldnt ride, she said no, every test she had read she thought she could ride everything required, so then I asked what the problem was, and she said she just wasnt good enough. She is certainly good enough for unaff RC Novice, but this is a common attitude, a combination of a lack of confidence and fear of failure, and such a shame if it stops people from doing something they want.
Levrier, I think there can be several reasons why people dont achieve things, firstly I think focus and clarity are very important, I totally accept you try and work hard, but do you have short and long term goals? Do you have a simple step by step plan to help you achieve the goals? A vague, unfocussed idea of what you want to achieve is rarely enough. When you train your horse do you have a plan for your schooling sessions? I could go on, but I hope those are good questions to start with.
Levrier, I think there can be several reasons why people dont achieve things, firstly I think focus and clarity are very important, I totally accept you try and work hard, but do you have short and long term goals? Do you have a simple step by step plan to help you achieve the goals? A vague, unfocussed idea of what you want to achieve is rarely enough. When you train your horse do you have a plan for your schooling sessions? I could go on, but I hope those are good questions to start with.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I think the reason why people don't achieve things is because they are afraid to even try. Most people have never ridden or trained a piaffe, or a flying change: how many have tried to do one? If you don't ask, you don't get. Doesn't matter if you do it wrong, just ask and see what happens. I trained my first horse to piaffe when I was 12, because I had seen it in a film about the Spanish Riding School - never seen a real horse do it, had no clue. But I asked, and asked and did it wrong 100 times, and then one day it happened, the horse got it, I got it and I had a piaffing horse (which, I can tell you, was a really big deal in 1970's Ireland!).
daffy44
Well-Known Member
Totally agree Cortez! People are so often afraid to try new things for fear of getting it wrong, and also afraid to make mistakes in general training too, if you dont make mistakes you dont learn. Training is the time to try new things and get things wrong, it doesnt matter, of course, if you try something and your horse gets very distressed, then stop, but never be afraid to try.
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
Thinking about Levrier's post ...... (and not aimed at you specifically Levrier)
It's hard to improve if you don't know what you are aiming for
If you are trying to teach a horse half pass, and you have never ridden half pass, how do you know when you have got it right? Or any other movement, that you haven't ridden before?
In a perfect world, it would be great if we could all ride, if only once, a horse that can show us what we should be doing and feeling so that we can replicate with our own horses..... I was lucky enough to ride some amazing horses in my youth with some inspirational trainers, and can now reproduce from memory, that "feel" of what I'm trying to ask the horse to do.
I think sometimes, people don't realise how attainable goals can be, because they have no idea of how to get there, from where they are.
It's hard to improve if you don't know what you are aiming for
If you are trying to teach a horse half pass, and you have never ridden half pass, how do you know when you have got it right? Or any other movement, that you haven't ridden before?
In a perfect world, it would be great if we could all ride, if only once, a horse that can show us what we should be doing and feeling so that we can replicate with our own horses..... I was lucky enough to ride some amazing horses in my youth with some inspirational trainers, and can now reproduce from memory, that "feel" of what I'm trying to ask the horse to do.
I think sometimes, people don't realise how attainable goals can be, because they have no idea of how to get there, from where they are.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Ask someone. Or, these days, video it and learn how to be a bit self critical. I'd never ridden half pass when I taught my first horse to do it, or at least some approximation. But I'd watched a lot of other people half passing, read some books and just had a go. We went sideways bent in the direction of travel. Was it perfect? Nope, but it was a start and then I had something to build on.
I'm in the 'have a go' camp too. I've got one very forgiving horse who.has never begrudged my amateurish attempts to learn to ride. I've made mistakes and learnt a lot. If you can imagine how something should feel, you can probably get halfway there by yourself IME. Does require a thinking rider though, granted.
daffy44
Well-Known Member
If you want to teach half pass and you dont know how, ask your trainer!!! And do as Milliepops said, think about it, try it, see what happens.
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
True...........however, I remember attempting many movements for the first time almost literally with Alois Podhajsky's book Complete Training of Horse & Rider in hand! There were some great books around with a wealth of information in all disciplines. They may be old but I do wish people would have a dig through them - lots to learn.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think you can teach a horse things you don't know about, it just takes longer than if you have been there before.
However I also had a bit of a revelation that I wasn't doing some things quite correctly with regards to bend etc when I got the chance to sit on one that had been trained more correctly and less by trial and error what it needed to feel like was a bit different to what it needed to look like. Poor F got a bit of a shock when I came back from that trip!
We cracked half pass right recently, half pass left I said to my trainer I'm doing something wrong, it might not be you he said, he didn't stick with that line very long .
However I also had a bit of a revelation that I wasn't doing some things quite correctly with regards to bend etc when I got the chance to sit on one that had been trained more correctly and less by trial and error
what it needed to feel like was a bit different to what it needed to look like. Poor F got a bit of a shock when I came back from that trip! We cracked half pass right recently, half pass left I said to my trainer I'm doing something wrong, it might not be you he said
, he didn't stick with that line very long .RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
And going on from there - those of us that are lucky enough to be at home. I can try all kinds of things, I can ****** about and practice and muck about literally to my heart's content. I don't have an arena rota, a livery yard lights out time, or the inevitable livery yard bitch watching me muck stuff up and then telling everyone, or writing it on facebook. Practicing is a lot easier by yourself or with an instructor than it is with other people watching.
{97702}
...
some really interesting observations which have been really helpful - thanks very much all 😊😊
I hear what you are all saying about not having to have experienced something to try to do it, and I do agree with you, but I think it was you Milliepops (and apologies if I have got this wrong!) who said that you persevered with one horse after you recognised that one moment of 'lift' or similar that you knew from experience gave promise of more to come? How would I recognise that feeling if I had never experienced it?
I really identitied with the suggestion about a lack of focus and clarity and I think that is where I go wrong sometimes (a lot of the time?) - I don't have a plan on how I'm going to move on to the next step. For example my baby sports cob came to me at the end of May totally unbalanced and totally unable to canter in the school. Now we achieve correct canter strike off on pretty much every occasion and can maintain the pace without excessive rushing (but without much balance or the correct bend!) What I hadn't mentally planned for was what I would do when I reached that point. Instead of sitting on the horse thinking 'wow canter on the correct lead again, awesome' I should have been thinking about improving the canter balance through transitions etc!
I've realised I have to go away and reflect now about what I really want out of this exorbitantly expensive hobby - and if I feel I have unfulfilled goals then I need to work out how to achieve them...
I hear what you are all saying about not having to have experienced something to try to do it, and I do agree with you, but I think it was you Milliepops (and apologies if I have got this wrong!) who said that you persevered with one horse after you recognised that one moment of 'lift' or similar that you knew from experience gave promise of more to come? How would I recognise that feeling if I had never experienced it?
I really identitied with the suggestion about a lack of focus and clarity and I think that is where I go wrong sometimes (a lot of the time?) - I don't have a plan on how I'm going to move on to the next step. For example my baby sports cob came to me at the end of May totally unbalanced and totally unable to canter in the school. Now we achieve correct canter strike off on pretty much every occasion and can maintain the pace without excessive rushing (but without much balance or the correct bend!) What I hadn't mentally planned for was what I would do when I reached that point. Instead of sitting on the horse thinking 'wow canter on the correct lead again, awesome' I should have been thinking about improving the canter balance through transitions etc!
I've realised I have to go away and reflect now about what I really want out of this exorbitantly expensive hobby - and if I feel I have unfulfilled goals then I need to work out how to achieve them...
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Lévrier;13354254 said:
yes it was me, though I think it was a 'wow' moment, lol!
Honestly, and I do mean this in the nicest possible way, because I've been following the fun you've been having on J and your desire to get better and better just oozes out of your posts.
I think reflection, thinking and calm analysis in and out of the saddle is what makes the difference between someone who may ride well with direction from an instructor there at the time, and someone who can train themselves in the interim.
I absolutely eat, sleep and breathe training my horses. It's where my mind goes in quiet moments. I'll think over a session for some days later, wondering whether I did something right, wrong, should I try x, y or z next.
I know the moment that I started to really improve as a rider and it was when I started to be able to be usefully self critical - rather than just say 'oh I'm rubbish' or whatever. I had to develop the ability to put vanity and fear of failure aside, lose the ego, and be able to be more objective. Be fair on yourself, accept that you aren't going to be a worldbeater tomorrow but what you can do is pick apart the weak areas and work on them systematically. It's easy to be impatient, much harder to just calmly press on with a kind of plan, but be able to deviate from it without getting frustrated.
I read an article on riding which is extremely long but absolutely struck a nerve with me about how riding is like a spiritual journey for me. http://www.artisticdressage.com/articles/hurts.html
Not everyone would enjoy this kind of riding because it's not fun or exciting, but it is extremely rewarding and gives you the tools to find your way even when you are a bit stuck and with no one to ask. (yes, I'm on the yard with the happy hackers and I'm the only one who wants to try and compete at affiliated level, someone had a dig about that up thread but it's a weird position to be in
)Right, that was an odd diversion - but it does come back to your first question about how do you notice the wow moment - by being a truly thinking rider, being in the moment, trying to hear what the horse is saying and feel what it is doing as much as you give it instructions. It's a hard thing to learn but something that is well worth practicing daily if you want that kind of experience from your riding. It sounds pompous, sorry, it's not meant to.
Also, when you get moments like that canter breakthrough, it's OK to sit there and enjoy the moment for a bit. You've summitted one of the mountains (read the article :lol
so take a breath before starting on the next one.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I think, L, perhaps you are searching for there to be 'An Answer', the Right Way, maybe an End Point, when you'll be able to tick something off and move on to the next thing? Dunno, but I don't think there ever is that answer
This has all gone a bit Woooo but I think there are 2 things going on here -
Subconsciously I think of training horses being like finding your way along a bit of frail string or thread in the dark and weaving it into a pattern. It kind of stays together but you've got to be careful with it because it's delicate.
The thing you are perhaps lacking is a long term training strategy, like a series of pegs on the wall that you can hang your string on. Each peg being a milestone in the training but they aren't linear - the training thread winds a cobweb from one to the other and back again as a concept needs to be revisited,or taken out of order. When the horse is highly trained, the thread is well organised on the pegs and strong, but to start with it is tangled and leading off into the darkness.
An experienced rider who has trained lots of horses might already have their own set of pegs - someone with less experience would need to borrow a set from a good trainer.
The thread is fragile, so the other thing you need is a gentle pair of hands - not literally, but figuratively - an enquiring mind, thinking about what you are doing, what the horse is doing, where the thread is leading you next, as you tease it out and guide it from one peg to the next. Because it's dark, you can't *see* where you are going - every horse is different, so you have to use your other senses to work it out.
Sorry! This is way off topic but might help to explain what I was on about with the thinking bit. Or might just explain why I've got odd horses. :lol:
This has all gone a bit Woooo but I think there are 2 things going on here -
Subconsciously I think of training horses being like finding your way along a bit of frail string or thread in the dark and weaving it into a pattern. It kind of stays together but you've got to be careful with it because it's delicate.
The thing you are perhaps lacking is a long term training strategy, like a series of pegs on the wall that you can hang your string on. Each peg being a milestone in the training but they aren't linear - the training thread winds a cobweb from one to the other and back again as a concept needs to be revisited,or taken out of order. When the horse is highly trained, the thread is well organised on the pegs and strong, but to start with it is tangled and leading off into the darkness.
An experienced rider who has trained lots of horses might already have their own set of pegs - someone with less experience would need to borrow a set from a good trainer.
The thread is fragile, so the other thing you need is a gentle pair of hands - not literally, but figuratively - an enquiring mind, thinking about what you are doing, what the horse is doing, where the thread is leading you next, as you tease it out and guide it from one peg to the next. Because it's dark, you can't *see* where you are going - every horse is different, so you have to use your other senses to work it out.
Sorry! This is way off topic but might help to explain what I was on about with the thinking bit. Or might just explain why I've got odd horses. :lol:
Michen
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread. Until this year I have always had horses purely for pleasure, hacking, looking after. Never been competitive or had any competitive dreams. I still don't really, in that whilst it's lovely to get a rosette I don't care about being the best or even near the best on the day. The joy that I have got is from progress, for both me and the horse and I find its so rewarding. I don't think I would be happy now without that constant moving forwards.
Lanky Loll
Well-Known Member
Great thread PM
I think the quality of instruction is a large part of it and it doesn't have to be super expensive a good instructor pushes you and builds your confidence and that doesn't mean patting you on the back for doing something you should know how to do anyway.
I do a lot of my training through my local RC where lessons range from £20-£40 depending on who / what and how many in a group, as an example we are extremely lucky and have the opportunity to have group lessons with Pammy Hutton for £20each - bargain even with up to 6 in the group as she works you hard!! Having observed the trainers I do think you get out what you put in and sometimes you can see the trainers are on autopilot.
If you've got someone that walks in, mithers about the x-pole warm up and is almost "pretend" nervous then you can watch them switch off. I say it's pretend nervous because the horse is fine, they're fine, they're not being asked to do anything excessive but for some reason they attention seek like a toddler by making a hoohah about it. By the end of the lesson they're jumping a small course and get a well done but you can see the eye rolling and the trainer's boredom a mile off. They've not learnt anything, they've stayed in their zone but they get a pat on the back and continue on their merry way with no progression shown.
If you go in with a positive attitude you get a totally different experience and get pushed, maybe a bit out of your comfort zone but you come out of it with confidence and a feeling that you can go on to the next level.
I have an expectation when I go for a lesson be it jump or flat that I will be pushed. That I and/or horse will learn something new / start to iron out whatever issues I'm having (pick up my bad habits and help me fix them!) and that I can go away and work on it.
I think some people just go for the pat on the back.
I think the quality of instruction is a large part of it and it doesn't have to be super expensive a good instructor pushes you and builds your confidence and that doesn't mean patting you on the back for doing something you should know how to do anyway.
I do a lot of my training through my local RC where lessons range from £20-£40 depending on who / what and how many in a group, as an example we are extremely lucky and have the opportunity to have group lessons with Pammy Hutton for £20each - bargain even with up to 6 in the group as she works you hard!! Having observed the trainers I do think you get out what you put in and sometimes you can see the trainers are on autopilot.
If you've got someone that walks in, mithers about the x-pole warm up and is almost "pretend" nervous then you can watch them switch off. I say it's pretend nervous because the horse is fine, they're fine, they're not being asked to do anything excessive but for some reason they attention seek like a toddler by making a hoohah about it. By the end of the lesson they're jumping a small course and get a well done but you can see the eye rolling and the trainer's boredom a mile off. They've not learnt anything, they've stayed in their zone but they get a pat on the back and continue on their merry way with no progression shown.
If you go in with a positive attitude you get a totally different experience and get pushed, maybe a bit out of your comfort zone but you come out of it with confidence and a feeling that you can go on to the next level.
I have an expectation when I go for a lesson be it jump or flat that I will be pushed. That I and/or horse will learn something new / start to iron out whatever issues I'm having (pick up my bad habits and help me fix them!) and that I can go away and work on it.
I think some people just go for the pat on the back.
spacefaer
Well-Known Member
I have a client, lovely lady, who had a (what she called) a midlife crisis - and went out and bought a very educated dressage horse, having had nice RC type homebreds for most of her life. She has been riding him for 2 years (almost to the day) and to start with, she discovered she had so many buttons, she was pressing them without realising - bit like learning to drive in a Ferrari.
She has had lessons and she has practised and she has now got to the point of not only being able to ride him, she is now improving him. When she gets it right, and he does what she's asked, she can feel it, even before I tell her, and she gets the biggest grin plastered on her face.
She says when she works him at home, some days are better than others, and she admits she is slower to achieve things by herself than when she is having a lesson, but if it doesn't feel right, she does it again until it does, or she changes what she's doing, until it does.
There is no "tick box" of saying, yup, done that, next thing - she is constantly checking quality of paces, outline, contact, activity, speed off the leg etc etc - the parameters may have changed but the basic questions are still there. He may be quicker to respond to her aids, but it still has to be the right response! Every time she thinks she's cracked a movement, we move the goalposts and ask for more
She has had lessons and she has practised and she has now got to the point of not only being able to ride him, she is now improving him. When she gets it right, and he does what she's asked, she can feel it, even before I tell her, and she gets the biggest grin plastered on her face.
She says when she works him at home, some days are better than others, and she admits she is slower to achieve things by herself than when she is having a lesson, but if it doesn't feel right, she does it again until it does, or she changes what she's doing, until it does.
There is no "tick box" of saying, yup, done that, next thing - she is constantly checking quality of paces, outline, contact, activity, speed off the leg etc etc - the parameters may have changed but the basic questions are still there. He may be quicker to respond to her aids, but it still has to be the right response! Every time she thinks she's cracked a movement, we move the goalposts and ask for more
Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread. I do think that men have a distinct advantage here and I've said it time and time again when watching male riders. I genuinely believe that women (many) tend to over think, over complicate, throw in buckets full of emotion, self doubt and self criticism and then it puts them at a distinct disadvantage.
I always say that the only reason that the majority of Headteachers are male is because fewer women have the ego, self belief and confidence to believe that they are capable of the job. I see this transferred in to riding a lot of the time. I bet you'll have a male beginner jumping 1.10 far quicker than you ever would a female and it's not because they are 'better'.
Just my twopenneth.
I always say that the only reason that the majority of Headteachers are male is because fewer women have the ego, self belief and confidence to believe that they are capable of the job. I see this transferred in to riding a lot of the time. I bet you'll have a male beginner jumping 1.10 far quicker than you ever would a female and it's not because they are 'better'.
Just my twopenneth.