Acolyte
Well-Known Member
Awwww I was at the CKCS championship show..... it smelt! I am looking out for my mum now
Aaaarrrgghhhh - Pedigree dogs programme....
- Thread starter Acolyte
- Start date
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
read one of my above posts about it.
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
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I prefer the bassett from 60 years ago although it does look like a Dachshound
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But I don't believe (waits to be told she's wrong) the breed standard has changed. It's peoples perception of the breed standard, and also the sepration of working and showing people and the decline of the dog actually being used for what it was bred for.
Our working cockers are still to the breed standard (sort of!!), but no judge would ever place them.
Yet the IWS we have is perfect to the breed standard and also perfectly designed to do what he was bred for.
I prefer the bassett from 60 years ago although it does look like a Dachshound
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But I don't believe (waits to be told she's wrong) the breed standard has changed. It's peoples perception of the breed standard, and also the sepration of working and showing people and the decline of the dog actually being used for what it was bred for.
Our working cockers are still to the breed standard (sort of!!), but no judge would ever place them.
Yet the IWS we have is perfect to the breed standard and also perfectly designed to do what he was bred for.
sade1986
Well-Known Member
Sorry, i don't know much more about it than that but i have seen some nasty damage to tails, although not first hand. I used to be completly against docking, but after seeing some of the damage to undocked working dogs i changed my view but disagree with it for cosmetic purposes.
Cop-Pop
Well-Known Member
Can't believe how nasty the people are being about Carol the woman campainging about the CKCS
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
You'd better not hear what is said off camera
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
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read one of my above posts about it.
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Where? You post a lot...and all about dogs....
S
read one of my above posts about it.
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Where? You post a lot...and all about dogs....
S
jacks_mum
Well-Known Member
no they are being quite viscious (sp) when i think she's doing a good job
muffinino
Well-Known Member
I have to say, Danny is one of the fugliest animals I have ever seen. Poor mite could barely waddle around or breath.
I agree about it being down to breed standards. Judges have to place animals that conform to them and therefore you get squashed faces, weak back ends, hereditary problems.
The narrator's simpering but self righteous voice is getting on my nerves!
I agree about it being down to breed standards. Judges have to place animals that conform to them and therefore you get squashed faces, weak back ends, hereditary problems.
The narrator's simpering but self righteous voice is getting on my nerves!
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Docking was originally introduced to identify working dogs, which were not subject to taxation. A dog's tail is the end of its spine, and it uses it as a rudder, as well as to express itself. Some working dogs are still docked (and docking enthusiasts will tell you it is necessary), and some are not, including Retrievers, who have a long coat and work in as much rough as Spaniels. Go figure, as they say. I can see no reason to dock pet breeds, yet many are. In America they also go in for ear pricking, which means cutting the ears of breeds like Dobermans and Great Danes to get them to stand up. Of the two practices, this probably has less impact on the dog's overall health, as many active docked animals suffer from leg joint problems as a result of balance difficulties. Docking is still carried out by vets.
sade1986
Well-Known Member
26 litters since that CKCS was diagnosed (with that thing that i am not even going to attempt to spell)!
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Docking is a bit like cutting off a baby's finger. It won't miss it, it's a minor operation but why do it?
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
I could not possibly comment
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
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I think It's silly to have it done if the dog isn't ever actually going to work though!
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But then puppies don't always have their destinys mapped out from the moment they are born
They have to be done before 3 days, and working owners won't buy undocked dogs, whereas pet owners will buy a docked dog.
All our cockers are docked, and never have a problem with wagging or balance! They are perfectly happy, except for the one who wasn't docked short enough, when it comes to the working season, his tail explodes with infection, so much so his days often get limited. Then he is even more p!ssed off!!!
I think It's silly to have it done if the dog isn't ever actually going to work though!
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But then puppies don't always have their destinys mapped out from the moment they are born
They have to be done before 3 days, and working owners won't buy undocked dogs, whereas pet owners will buy a docked dog.
All our cockers are docked, and never have a problem with wagging or balance! They are perfectly happy, except for the one who wasn't docked short enough, when it comes to the working season, his tail explodes with infection, so much so his days often get limited. Then he is even more p!ssed off!!!
joeanne
Well-Known Member
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IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
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agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
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agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
Oops, sorry. I meant when you asked about what kind of injuries. But then by the time i posted it loads of others had beat me to it.
It was just that i knew someone with a working springer spaniel that hadnt had enough of her tail docked and if she caught it on anything it squirted blood. Poor thing!
It was just that i knew someone with a working springer spaniel that hadnt had enough of her tail docked and if she caught it on anything it squirted blood. Poor thing!
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
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And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
[/ QUOTE ]
And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
Diane_Pepper
Well-Known Member
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I have to say, Danny is one of the fugliest animals I have ever seen. Poor mite could barely waddle around or breath.
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I agree! His eyes were practically popping out of his skull
I have to say, Danny is one of the fugliest animals I have ever seen. Poor mite could barely waddle around or breath.
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I agree! His eyes were practically popping out of his skull
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I think many working owners are happy to buy an undocked dog. Most working dogs are not docked - Collies, Labs, Retrievers...
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
[ QUOTE ]
Docking was originally introduced to identify working dogs, which were not subject to taxation. A dog's tail is the end of its spine, and it uses it as a rudder, as well as to express itself. Some working dogs are still docked (and docking enthusiasts will tell you it is necessary), and some are not, including Retrievers, who have a long coat and work in as much rough as Spaniels. Go figure, as they say. I can see no reason to dock pet breeds, yet many are. In America they also go in for ear pricking, which means cutting the ears of breeds like Dobermans and Great Danes to get them to stand up. Of the two practices, this probably has less impact on the dog's overall health, as many active docked animals suffer from leg joint problems as a result of balance difficulties. Docking is still carried out by vets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Soots.
I know that heavy horses used to be docked as they suffered crushed vertebrae if/when they got their tails trapped in the workings...
I couldn't think of a way that a longer tail would be prone to injury in a working dog (but then, all I know are sheepdogs and maybe gundogs). Is it due to injury or disease that they are docked?
And another question (I did warn you all I know nothing about dogs) - if a white boxer is deaf, can it not be neutered and rehomed as a pet, rather than culled - as it will still be effectively removed from the gene pool?
S
Docking was originally introduced to identify working dogs, which were not subject to taxation. A dog's tail is the end of its spine, and it uses it as a rudder, as well as to express itself. Some working dogs are still docked (and docking enthusiasts will tell you it is necessary), and some are not, including Retrievers, who have a long coat and work in as much rough as Spaniels. Go figure, as they say. I can see no reason to dock pet breeds, yet many are. In America they also go in for ear pricking, which means cutting the ears of breeds like Dobermans and Great Danes to get them to stand up. Of the two practices, this probably has less impact on the dog's overall health, as many active docked animals suffer from leg joint problems as a result of balance difficulties. Docking is still carried out by vets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Soots.
I know that heavy horses used to be docked as they suffered crushed vertebrae if/when they got their tails trapped in the workings...
I couldn't think of a way that a longer tail would be prone to injury in a working dog (but then, all I know are sheepdogs and maybe gundogs). Is it due to injury or disease that they are docked?
And another question (I did warn you all I know nothing about dogs) - if a white boxer is deaf, can it not be neutered and rehomed as a pet, rather than culled - as it will still be effectively removed from the gene pool?
S
_April_
Well-Known Member
I saw an injury to a working dog's tail once and it was really quite nasty... I guess they think prevention is better than cure.
I didn't think the docking experience looked that bad for the puppies, although they were so small - poor little mites
I am totally anti hunting btw - my minimal experience is from having a family who shoot and working as a vet nurse!
I didn't think the docking experience looked that bad for the puppies, although they were so small - poor little mites
I am totally anti hunting btw - my minimal experience is from having a family who shoot and working as a vet nurse!
joeanne
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
[/ QUOTE ]
And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes maybe but not 50 individuals as a whole, and certainly not in the last 20 years! tb's at least had many mares to dilute the gene's a bit!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
[/ QUOTE ]
And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes maybe but not 50 individuals as a whole, and certainly not in the last 20 years! tb's at least had many mares to dilute the gene's a bit!
jacks_mum
Well-Known Member
Of course it can Shils but if the breeders won't do that and can find a vet to cull them then that's what will happen. Having said that, our rescue centres are full to the brim already without adding pedigree's that haven't 'made the grade'.
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some working dogs are still docked (and docking enthusiasts will tell you it is necessary), and some are not, including Retrievers, who have a long coat and work in as much rough as Spaniels.
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Not true. A retrievers job is to retrieve shot game from the open field, a springer/cockers job is to flush the game from the rough into the open to be shot. Hence the reason for docking the dogs which flush and not retrievers like labs etc. Game which landed in the rough would usually have a flushing dog sent in to retrieve it.
Also working dogs which have never been docked, are bred to have shortish, thick tails, dogs which are bred to be docked can have anything stuck to their backside. Usually long and whiplike, and perfect for being ripped to shreds, which is a hideous injury.
Some working dogs are still docked (and docking enthusiasts will tell you it is necessary), and some are not, including Retrievers, who have a long coat and work in as much rough as Spaniels.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. A retrievers job is to retrieve shot game from the open field, a springer/cockers job is to flush the game from the rough into the open to be shot. Hence the reason for docking the dogs which flush and not retrievers like labs etc. Game which landed in the rough would usually have a flushing dog sent in to retrieve it.
Also working dogs which have never been docked, are bred to have shortish, thick tails, dogs which are bred to be docked can have anything stuck to their backside. Usually long and whiplike, and perfect for being ripped to shreds, which is a hideous injury.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
To the Boxer question - yes. White boxers are culled not only due to deafness, but because they are not KC 'approved'. My old vet refused to put a white deaf boxer to sleep and kept it for 12 years. As I said, working dogs were originally docked for tax purposes, not for health purposes, so I do wonder about that whole argument. I have lived in the country and owned dogs for over 30 years, and have never had a tail injury. I know some thin-tailed breeds such as greyhounds are prone to them, but they are not docked on a routine basis.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
[/ QUOTE ]
And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
[/ QUOTE ]
Four stallions...although originally the stud book wasn't closed as it is today...and the idea of not allowing AI is supposedly to ensure greater genetic diversity.
S
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO a working dog should be docked so there is no risk of their tails being caught and ripped or broken badly. A pet dog shouldn't be docked. But that 's just my opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed, working dogs in certain cases do need to have a docked tail, our springers were purchased as pets only so we hunted high and low to find two with tails.
pugs can be traced back to 50 individuals???????
thats shocking! thats puts limited gene pool into a whole new perspective!
[/ QUOTE ]
And cant thoroughbreds be traced back to three stallions?
[/ QUOTE ]
Four stallions...although originally the stud book wasn't closed as it is today...and the idea of not allowing AI is supposedly to ensure greater genetic diversity.
S
icestationzebra
Well-Known Member
It just makes me feel sad that there are so many unwanted dogs festering in dogs homes across the country and people continue to breed these unhealthy and sometimes deformed dogs! And of course there are people queuing up to buy them which personally I cannot get my head around
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Our Boxer cross has a very sturdy tail. Greyhounds are not bred to be docked (and it is highly unlikely any breed's tail would change over the short period of time that docking has been a practice - 100 years or so? Why would it?) and they have very thin tails.
kanter
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And another question (I did warn you all I know nothing about dogs) - if a white boxer is deaf, can it not be neutered and rehomed as a pet, rather than culled - as it will still be effectively removed from the gene pool?
S
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they are more difficult to train (recall etc), and obviously may not be aware of danger (traffic etc) though have heard of some successfully trained using sign language, and also can form successful pair bonds with hearing dogs.
And another question (I did warn you all I know nothing about dogs) - if a white boxer is deaf, can it not be neutered and rehomed as a pet, rather than culled - as it will still be effectively removed from the gene pool?
S
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they are more difficult to train (recall etc), and obviously may not be aware of danger (traffic etc) though have heard of some successfully trained using sign language, and also can form successful pair bonds with hearing dogs.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
For hundreds of pounds too! It is a very lucrative business.