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SpringArising

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Can I ask the people on this thread who think it is possible to ensure that a FTGH horse does not end up at a abattoir, sold on with a new passport, overworked by people who can't afford a younger model, or abused in any other way - what would you do to 100% guarantee that you had found a horse like this a good home?

First of all no one has said it's possible to ensure that. We've just said it's possible to find a good home.

Secondly, your question could be applied to any horse or animal who is ever sold.

I would ask anyone who doesn't agree with passing older horses on if they have ever sold a younger horse? Because one day those young horses you sold will also be old and at risk. Do you keep them to ensure they are never in that position? I doubt it.
 

oldie48

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The horse in the picture could be my retired 27 year old TB. I notice he is clipped despite him being "retired" except for the occasional potter round the school. Cushings?? Just out of interest I added up how much it costs to keep my old friend happy and healthy, not that I begrudge a penny of what I spend as I do it willingly and hope I will have him for many more years. Prascend and the odd sachet of bute to keep him comfortable when it's cold and wet is over £800pa, teeth, vaccs and an annual health check £200, feed £520, bedding £400 feet trimming £225. he also suffers from skin infections if he gets bitten, struggles to control his temperature so i often pop out to change rugs during the day. He needs as much, if not more daily care than my horse in work, particularly when it's muddy as he's now prone to mud fever or when his coat is changing. The point of my post is that anyone taking on a 27 year old TB should understand the amount of work and the cost involved. It's not just a case of sticking the old boy out in a field as a companion. I would never pass my horse on to anyone, he is my responsibility and no-one else's. If the day came when I couldn't afford to care for him properly or he could no longer live a normal "horsey life" I would PTS. I strongly disagree with anyone who feels it is OK to pass on a horse of this age even if he is in good health for his age as it is just shifting your responsibility to someone else.
 

EquiEquestrian556

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What if you had a 27 year old who was retired, but because of the circumstances life had thrown at you, couldn't keep. Would you let him take his chance, given all the scum bags out there, who don't have the emotional attachment that you do to him, in the knowledge that he may get a good home, but also stood a greater chance of being sold on at the sales as much younger, or straight to the abbatoir. Or would you end his life with you knowing that he had never felt pain or fear (and never would) Very hard decision.

I'd probably PTS, however I have friends who would be able to look after it. Hard decision.
 

SpringArising

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I strongly disagree with anyone who feels it is OK to pass on a horse of this age even if he is in good health for his age as it is just shifting your responsibility to someone else.

Any time you sell a horse you're shifting the responsibility onto someone else. It's not exclusive to older horses.
 

cbmcts

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There is no doubt there are people who would take on Eddie and give him a fantastic home - just not very many of them. Statistically, the chances of ending up in a bad home are higher if a horse has no value. And I'll freely hold up my hands and admit that I wouldn't take him either. The way I look at it is that horses or any pets TBH are heartbreakers when the time comes or something goes wrong so why go looking for trouble really.

To be frank, I'll keep mine until their dying day but I choose them, they've earned their retirement with me and I'm happy to provide it but when (if!) I get my next horse I'd like to be able to enjoy riding them. Selfish? Maybe but honest I think...

My retired horse(only one now) will never be passed on. He's a class A PITA - and that's on a good day - but he's my responsibility, nobody elses. Yes, if my life goes wrong and for whatever reason I can't keep him, he'll be PTS. Not a decision I take lightly or easily but I firmly believe that it would be the correct one. Sometimes, the right decision is the hardest one IME.
 

Smurf's Gran

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Any time you sell a horse you're shifting the responsibility onto someone else. It's not exclusive to older horses.

But it is a very different argument, and is a question of likelihood - Younger horses are far more likely to get a good home, where they are useful and valued, particularly if they can be ridden, whereas older ones who probably don't have many years left and cannot really be ridden (such as the subject of this thread) have very little chance of a good outcome. It is reprehensible when owners pass on horses of that age with so little going for them when we all know the likely outcome, it is irresponsible and cowardly.
 

cbmcts

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Any time you sell a horse you're shifting the responsibility onto someone else. It's not exclusive to older horses.

Maybe so - but if a horse has use and/or a value they at least have a fighting chance of a good home.

TBF, I don't sell mine so that's why I've learnt to be a bit picky about taking on the hard cases...I'm stuck with what I've brought home for their lifetime!
 

southerncomfort

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I've had my 26 year old pony for 13 years now. The thought of rehoming her at her age makes me feel physically sick. Not because I arrogantly believe that no-one could care for her as well as I do, but because she is my old friend and I know that she would find that kind of upheaval, being taken away away from everything and everyone she has known for the last 13 years, utterly devastating.

How many threads do we see each week/month from people expressing worry about how unsettled and upset their horse has been by a livery yard change. I strongly suspect that for an older horse, who has been with the same family for some years, it would be truly awful.

Maybe I'm just a soppy old sod, but I couldn't do it.
 

ester

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If you sell a younger horse it still has plenty of time to give someone enough pleasure that they are happy to care for it when it is then retired. that is less likely at 27.
 

Goldenstar

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If you sell a younger horse it still has plenty of time to give someone enough pleasure that they are happy to care for it when it is then retired. that is less likely at 27.

This is my view the sooner a horse settles with it's end user the more likely it is to get good end of life care .
 

oldie48

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IMO shifting the responsibility for a very elderly retired horse onto someone else is very different to selling a fit and healthy younger horse and if you can't see this, then, not wishing to be rude, I'm afraid I can't explain it to you. We clearly take a different view when it comes to caring for our old horses.
Any time you sell a horse you're shifting the responsibility onto someone else. It's not exclusive to older horses.
 

ycbm

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First of all no one has said it's possible to ensure that. We've just said it's possible to find a good home.

Secondly, your question could be applied to any horse or animal who is ever sold.

I would ask anyone who doesn't agree with passing older horses on if they have ever sold a younger horse? Because one day those young horses you sold will also be old and at risk. Do you keep them to ensure they are never in that position? I doubt it.

I happily sell younger horses worth significant amounts of money, My experience is that people who pay thousands of pounds for horses rarely abuse them. My experience - two, directly, one mine and one someone else's - is that people who buy horses for meat money or get them FTGH often abuse them.

I don't consider myself responsible for the entire future life of a ten year old fit and healthy horse. I do consider myself responsible for the future of any horse which is not fit for full work, any horse which can't safely be handled by a novice owner, and any old horse.

I would never let a semi retired 27 year old horse leave my care alive.
 

_HP_

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Rehoming an older horse or pony to someone you know is VERY different to advertising and rehoming to someone that you know nothing about.
You can't compare rehoming/selling a young horse to one of this age....this is just irresponsible IMO. yes, he could find a wonderful home to spend his last days but as a freebie, he could also find himself in a horror story. Its not something I would risk.
For the record, I have taken on 2 ponies aged over 30 and they are having a wonderful time so there are people out there but I knew the owner and she knew they'd be ok with me.
I have sold a couple of ponies worth a couple of grand, for a pound to a friend of a friend so that they would have the best possible chance of a good home.
I think we should all do what we can to ensure the best possible future for our animals whatever they are, and advertising a 27 yr old for free on a countrywide site is not the best way.
 

thatsmygirl

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That decision is entirely up to you. I don't agree nor disagree with it.

I gave away my first pony when she was twenty-four. She was still as fit as a fiddle but I was too big to ride her at that point and I didn't feel it was healthy for her to potentially spend the next ten plus years doing minimal work. She's now coming up to twenty-eight/twenty-nine and she's still as fit as a fiddle. She lives on a farm with another pony companion and the kids just love her. There hasn't been a day since I gave her to them that I've regretted my choice. Sure, I've thought of having her back for selfish reasons, but I know that she's better off where she is now, where she can be kept in regular ridden work by someone who is the right size for her.

We also gave away an elderly ID/TB type who was too much for my novice mum. She was mis-sold to us as safe and sensible but despite her age, she wasn't. After many tears from my mum we found her a home with a lady who just wanted a big pet/companion and she lived out the rest of her days with her.

There are some great homes out there just like there are bad homes. The reason we don't hear about all the good/normal ones is because they don't make for an interesting subject. I am just one person and I have found two fantastic homes, so there is no reason other horses can't either.[/QUOTE

FREE TO GOOD HOME,
23 yr old welsh x gelding, blind in one eye and old tendon injury, not easy to handle and won't be stabled!!!
If it was up to this forum he would have a bullet in his head but this is a ad I replied to and is at my home being a fab light hack for a couple of kids who loves this pony to pieces, good homes are out there they aren't all bad.
And local to us we have 2 old ex racers free to good home who have landed on their feet with a lady who just likes to look after and not ride, very happy ending and I know loads of other happy free to good home ads they aren't all bad.

I also know a local lady who paid £thousands for 2 very well bred appoloosas but has lot interest and the RSPCA are now involved as they haven't seen a farrier or been feed anything for years and now they are walking bones the RSPCA will finally act. Bet the old owners didnt expect that.

That horse may get a bloody good home or it may not but anybody that has sold a horse runs that risk so maybe unless u can keep for life all horses should be shot and not sold as age makes no difference its the home you find.

Oh and a local pony on a loan contract went missing and never found so I agree that horses sent out on loan from charities are at risk as well and if somebody wants to sell to slaughter a loan contract won't stop them.
 

ester

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As said it is all about chances, we all know lovely people who have taken oldies on. It doesn't make the risk of passing one on worth it IMO.
 

Luci07

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On the basis of some of these posts....would anyone like a 27 rising 28 year old 16.3 TB x mare? Could be lightly hacked. Must be stabled and needs her hard feed. Needs teeth doing every 6 months, doesn't throw much of a coat. Must have feet trimmed. Does need her rugs. No? Really? Oh well, guess that means she stays with me then.
 

ycbm

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You must be joking?

Abuse comes in many different forms - not just that of being shipped off to the meat man.

No, I am not joking. Rare means rare, not never. The overwhelming majority of young fit horses sold for thousands of pounds will not be driven to an abattoir, put through a meat market, repassported and sold for more money, or ridden harder than they can cope with by the owner they are sold to. The same can't, sadly, be said for FTGH horse or horses sold very cheap as unfit for full work.

It's a question of risk and the risk to a 27 year old is far too high, IMO
 

thatsmygirl

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As said it is all about chances, we all know lovely people who have taken oldies on. It doesn't make the risk of passing one on worth it IMO.

I agree its all about chances in any horse at any age, I know horses as per a pervious thread that are beaten daily and those horses cost a fair bit of money so selling any horse is a risk and how many people would have sold a young horse for a few grand to expect it to receive daily beatings? Their old horses are in a bad home and they prob think they are well cared for, could even be a h/h forum users there's so many bad homes out there with younger horses in, that in my mind unless your going to keep for life maybe we should be picking on every for sale ad?
 

ycbm

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On the basis of some of these posts....would anyone like a 27 rising 28 year old 16.3 TB x mare? Could be lightly hacked. Must be stabled and needs her hard feed. Needs teeth doing every 6 months, doesn't throw much of a coat. Must have feet trimmed. Does need her rugs. No? Really? Oh well, guess that means she stays with me then.

You wouldn't part with her if anyone said yes, though, would you :) ?

At her size, she'll be worth a lot live at an abattoir. Plenty of people will tell you that they will offer her a wonderful home for life, pick her up from you and drive her straight to Potters.
 

ycbm

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I agree its all about chances in any horse at any age, I know horses as per a pervious thread that are beaten daily and those horses cost a fair bit of money so selling any horse is a risk and how many people would have sold a young horse for a few grand to expect it to receive daily beatings? Their old horses are in a bad home and they prob think they are well cared for, could even be a h/h forum users there's so many bad homes out there with younger horses in, that in my mind unless your going to keep for life maybe we should be picking on every for sale ad?

The risk of any horse in general being badly treated is the same. Old and cheap-unsound horses have a set of additional risks which are not only on top, but far higher in likelihood.
 

thatsmygirl

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You wouldn't part with her if anyone said yes, though, would you :) ?

At her size, she'll be worth a lot live at an abattoir. Plenty of people will tell you that they will offer her a wonderful home for life, pick her up from you and drive her straight to Potters.

Or maybe somebody like myself who has taken on a few older horses with problems would provide a loving home
 

ycbm

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Or maybe somebody like myself who has taken on a few older horses with problems would provide a loving home

Yes, maybe they would. Can you tell me how anyone can tell the difference between you and the people who pass themselves off as caring concerned people offering a home for life, but who would take her straight to a meat auction? Because I know to my cost that those people look like you, sound like you, can provide great references like you would, and own a lovely place for the horse to live in like you do. They don't come with a big label on them, sadly :(
 

thatsmygirl

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Perhaps, but I would bet that people like you are few and far between, and the other type :( is far more prevalent ...which is one of the main points on the thread sadly

I can see it from all sides, I take the oldies and provide a home for life and know many who have oldies in good homes but am fully aware of what goes on out there hence why once they come to me nothing leaves my care anymore , so personally I would never advertise a old horse or any horse for that matter as nobody knows if there beloved horse has driven out their drive for a happy life or a home for hell. The last horse I sold seemed a perfect home and he was such a gentle horse and the family were so lovely and I wrote my phone number on the passport in case anybody in years to come wanted to speak to an old owner. Honestly thought he went to a great home but after about a year I guess i had a call from a rescue centre who had taken him on from those people in a terrible state and sent me pics, I cried so much I just couldn't believe it and since then NO horse is leaving my yard alive but If others wish to try and find good homes for there's that's up to them, I had a young horse end up in a rescue home after what seemed perfect so no horse is truly safe at all and that horse I sold should have been safe as he was a perfect gent and the old half blind lad I have now who is pampered and loved so much should have been the one in the rescue centre, old or young it really dont matter its the homes that are found which states that horses chances in life not price, not age or anything else its getting the right home for that horse in question and its not a gamble I'm ever taking again
 

Smurf's Gran

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I can see it from all sides, I take the oldies and provide a home for life and know many who have oldies in good homes but am fully aware of what goes on out there hence why once they come to me nothing leaves my care anymore , so personally I would never advertise a old horse or any horse for that matter as nobody knows if there beloved horse has driven out their drive for a happy life or a home for hell. The last horse I sold seemed a perfect home and he was such a gentle horse and the family were so lovely and I wrote my phone number on the passport in case anybody in years to come wanted to speak to an old owner. Honestly thought he went to a great home but after about a year I guess i had a call from a rescue centre who had taken him on from those people in a terrible state and sent me pics, I cried so much I just couldn't believe it and since then NO horse is leaving my yard alive but If others wish to try and find good homes for there's that's up to them, I had a young horse end up in a rescue home after what seemed perfect so no horse is truly safe at all and that horse I sold should have been safe as he was a perfect gent and the old half blind lad I have now who is pampered and loved so much should have been the one in the rescue centre, old or young it really dont matter its the homes that are found which states that horses chances in life not price, not age or anything else its getting the right home for that horse in question and its not a gamble I'm ever taking again


Don't blame you.... we feel like that about ours
 

thatsmygirl

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Yes, maybe they would. Can you tell me how anyone can tell the difference between you and the people who pass themselves off as caring concerned people offering a home for life, but who would take her straight to a meat auction? Because I know to my cost that those people look like you, sound like you, can provide great references like you would, and own a lovely place for the horse to live in like you do. They don't come with a big label on them, sadly :(

No sadly you can't tell the difference which i found out selling a younger horse who ended up in a rescue center hence why I would never let mine out my ownership again, those sorts of people would pick up any horse if a few £ is there to be made regardless of age sadly
 

Crugeran Celt

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Any time you sell a horse you're shifting the responsibility onto someone else. It's not exclusive to older horses.

That is why I have never sold a horse on, to me it is the same as owning a dog or cat. Once the commitment has been made then you work with what you have got. I realise how lucky I am to be able to do this but I honestly don't think I would consider owning a horse if I couldn't keep it no matter what.
 

SpringArising

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That is why I have never sold a horse on, to me it is the same as owning a dog or cat. Once the commitment has been made then you work with what you have got. I realise how lucky I am to be able to do this but I honestly don't think I would consider owning a horse if I couldn't keep it no matter what.

I think that's fine, until you're suddenly going through a life-changing event, i.e. experience the death of a husband/wife, are maybe on the verge of losing your house, struggling financially and having to choose between feeding your kids or feeding your horse, etc. etc.

No one predicts those types of things happening to them, but they happen every single day to people from all walks of life. No one (or few people) take on a horse with the intent of having to give it away.
 

Mooseontheloose

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There's an old saying: 'If you get it when there's plenty, can you keep it til it's twenty'
With horses living longer and better vet care etc there are going to be a lot of old horses, rather as there are going to be a lot of old humans.
We need to face up to what we might have to do in the event of a life changing happening.
I posted elsewhere how we need to have an emergency plan in the event of a horse needing euthanasia. We should be very realistic about what we can care for, what we can cope with.
I, and my horses, are getting older. I would hate them to have to leave the farm where they've been for ever (most bred here), my family know what to do if anything happens to me.
 
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