Angry, disgusted, devestated...trust no one!!!

concernedyardowner said:
Had you have completely read my original post you will see that I had said that I used to run my own yard!
I am thankfully not involved in what is a very sad case and that my own horses are well and healthy! I certainly feel for the very sorry for the HO!
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A better name would have been "concernedEXyardowner", which given your opinions on this sad case is probably a very good thing.
 
be positive said:
Why should they need to ease their own conscience, they paid a "trusted friend" to care for the horse, there may well be an underlying cause but it still does not answer why the horse was not seen by a vet or anything done until it was being collected, by then it was all too late.
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THIS!!!

' Concerned yard owner' hmmmmmm. I'd be concerned if you were my YO given that the OP paid for the horses care to someone she thought was trustworthy and was assured they were well and in good condition. As opposed to dying......
 
Quite a few biting comments here. Not really what you need at this difficult time. :(

As far as you know, you had everything in place to ensure appropriate care for your mare and I sincerely hope, she will get better very soon and will be finally be reunited with you :)
 
Tormenta said:
A Yard Owner CAN be held responsible for what happens on their land, that is why most sensible YOs would have Insurance! Honestly........:-/
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I also agree with you on this! Isn't it a fact that responsible horse owners such as us have our horses insured! So, having said that, won't the veterinary bills be covered on the HO's insurance?
 
concernedyardowner said:
I'm cetainly not on here to cause trouble, but people are very quick to blame YO and others for theeir own failings! I also agree that the yard owner may have had a duty of care for these horses but having said that we do not know all the facts do we?!
It does anger me when people try to shift blame onto others!
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It angers me when people don't accept responsibility for their actions - like allowing a horse in your care to die There were no failings on the owners part other than believing a trusted friend was telling the truth.

I don't see how the YO can be excused for allowing a horse to become emaciated to the point of death, or if other health issues were the cause of death then a vet should have been called.

I frequently care for a neighbours horse and I'd be mortified if it became ill or underweight and I didn't take measures to prevent it, and would never say a horse was fine when it evidently wasn't.
 
concernedyardowner said:
I'm cetainly not on here to cause trouble, but people are very quick to blame YO and others for theeir own failings! I also agree that the yard owner may have had a duty of care for these horses but having said that we do not know all the facts do we?!
It does anger me when people try to shift blame onto others!
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concernedyardowner said:
I also agree with you on this! Isn't it a fact that responsible horse owners such as us have our horses insured! So, having said that, won't the veterinary bills be covered on the HO's insurance?
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I think Tormenta is referring to the fact that OP may sue the YOover the failure of duty of care.
 
I'm thinking that the time's come to lock this thread, if only to stop people who can't be arsed to read all of it sticking their two penn'orth in.

As I have said over and over again, in my experience, livery bills are paid IN ARREARS and nobody has come forward to correct me by telling me that my experience is unusual and livery is normally paid IN ADVANCE. So as far as I'm concerned, OP wasn't behind with her rent as she has repeatedly said that her OH was going to pay when he collected the horses.

In any case, it wouldn't bother me if an owner hadn't paid me a penny, I would not stand by and leave the animal unattended and unloved. I have looked after other people's horses when they've been unable to attend themselves (even through sheer idleness in one case) and they've had exactly the same care that my own horse had, including attending to a particularly nasty wound that should really have had veterinary attention.

Please, for the love of god, once and for all, stop having a go at the OP. Whether you think she's right or wrong, she is the one that has to live with this.
 
diamonddogs said:


As I have said over and over again, in my experience, livery bills are paid IN ARREARS and nobody has come forward to correct me by telling me that my experience is unusual and livery is normally paid IN ADVANCE.
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No horse stays on my property without payment made on arrival and then up front each month. I know of no professional yard where payment is made in arrears, all yards I know are paid monthly in advance. Any extras on top are added to the coming months livery and are paid in arrears but the set livery fee is always paid in advance. Regardless, the horse should have been attended to if it dropped weight with such rapidity. If all other horses on the yard looked fine then I strongly suspect the horse had some medical condition and as such the YO should have contacted the owner and then the vet. Some conditions can take hold very quickly indeed so perhaps the YO panicked and tried to remedy the problem; we really don't know the full story though.
 
So sorry to read of your mare's plight, my horse nearly died while on loan to a riding school/livery yard in Wales not far from me with 'reputable' instructors and employees and he's now crippled for life and as long as we can make him comfortable that's all we can do. If he's in pain obviously we'll do the right thing. I don't trust ANYONE now.
xx
 
silvershoes said:
Update for you all.

Unfortunately she has fought her last battle and has had to be PTS. She had a reaction to all the drugs she has had and was no longer able to fight. I feel totally empty inside and wish I could have done more and especially been there for her during her last hours. RIP and sleep tight my gorgeous little Silver Shoes xxxxx
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So very sorry for the loss of your mare, hugs to you, you did what you could it was others that let you and your mare down.
 
Some yards ask for payment in arrears but increasingly many request the fees a month in advance by D.D.

I think if the OP wished to take the legal route, there may need to be a post mortem so the cause of death is documented. If Silvershoes suffered from an acute illness, her deterioration may have been very rapid and the outcome of an investigation would be different to that where it was found to be neglect over several weeks.
 


*******************Statement of FACT ************************

As the afore mentioned YO I feel a few points need to be cleared up! SilverShoes was in the field with 8 other horses "20acres" to include in-foal mares and veterans alike. All were treated the same and have cme through winter absolutely fine. Livery clients were charged grass-livery and were informed via text message that big round bales of haylage was added to the field. No reply to the message was given.
Both mares of the livery client came with shoes and it was pomised that a farrier would be organised by the clients to remove the shoes and trim the feet, However, this DID NOT happen! When one of the mares lost a rug in the bad weather the livery client was informed again via text message. The reply to this was "a local friend was organised to replace the rug" This DID NOT happen!
SilverShoes was regularly seen by myself and other livery clients, both sound and eating from the bale of haylage! I was not once asked by the HO to bring either mare in from tthe field to check under rugs or wash their legs. This would have been an easy task for myself or two further livery clients that are well known to the HO.
By her own admision the HO failed to check on the horses herself - more than twice within the first 3 months of the livery time. When paying just before xmas for all charges up to the end of December - NO attempt to check either mare was made and NO arrangements for anybody to carry on, following the clint moving 500 miles away.
I have long standing liveries (6 years+), an immensely experienced equine vet and blacksmith among other proffesional people who CAN and WILL vouch for the quality of service povided by this yard.
It was my husband and two further livery clients who discovered the mare to be lame. I brought the mare in to a stable over night, the HO were contacted and the services of a vet were offered. The condition of the mare was also reported. The reply from the HO was to get a friend to transport the horse in distress delaying veterinary attention for a further 48 hours.
The RSPCA called here yesterdy and found nothing what-so-ever wrong with the premisesn or any animal present at the property (30+ horses) and we were glad they had visited. There is no report coming from the RSPCA with regards to my part in this as no further action is required.
Only after this whole sad situation has it come to my attention that "Silvershoes" has always been a mare who lives in with feed and rugs and regular attention. She was also always prone to mud-fever. We are now wandering if she had any existing illness or condition which may affect the other horses in the field. We are currently struggling to eceive any information with regards to blood test or postmortem results!

This concludes my statement of facts. Feel free to comment as you have been doing, but I WILL NOT be entering any further discussion myself.
 
ddog - seriously - get real - nothing I have said is out of order

Feel really sorry for the owner of the horse - must be so hard to loose one.

I am not rubbing salt into wound at all - I summarised the thread giving my opinion on the situation that SHE has provided.

And my opinion is move on and grieve about your awful loss. s right now the poor thing doesn't need heaps of keyboard warriors how may or may not know anything about the case giving fluffy and also harsh comments.

And now we have the accused YO on the forum who I equally feel sorry for.

So I think the best thing is for everyone to learn that leaving your horse 500 miles away is always a big risk. And that if you want something doing, do it yourself.

I am not apologising for my straight-talking answers - why would I be all fluffy bunny if that's not my opinion

I think you will find that I opened and closed my comments with sympathy for the owner of silver shoes also
 
silvershoes said:
Update for you all.

Unfortunately she has fought her last battle and has had to be PTS. She had a reaction to all the drugs she has had and was no longer able to fight. I feel totally empty inside and wish I could have done more and especially been there for her during her last hours. RIP and sleep tight my gorgeous little Silver Shoes xxxxx
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I'm so so so sorry to hear this OP.
Rest in Peace SilverShoes.
Please don't beat yourself up about it, I'm sure you're going through enough emotional turmoil.
 
accusedyardowner said:
I have long standing liveries (6 years+), an immensely experienced equine vet and blacksmith among other proffesional people who CAN and WILL vouch for the quality of service povided by this yard.
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Hmm... all of those people will only have a bearing on this case if they were in a habit of checking all the grass livery horses turned out with the poor mare. I've known a couple of hundredweight "fall off" a big cob in a fortnight though worm infestation so bad it looked as though the poor thing was pooing red cotton wool balls but severe as that was - the weight loss took 14 days - and this horse didn't die.

All the readers here only have the evidence to go on as presented to us but for my part - even given your professed exemplary services - a horse has on the face of it - practically
starved to death whilst left in your care and has died very soon after removal.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.
 
accusedyardowner said:


*******************Statement of FACT ************************

As the afore mentioned YO I feel a few points need to be cleared up! SilverShoes was in the field with 8 other horses "20acres" to include in-foal mares and veterans alike. All were treated the same and have cme through winter absolutely fine. Livery clients were charged grass-livery and were informed via text message that big round bales of haylage was added to the field. No reply to the message was given.

I would therefore assume from this that the message either wasn't received or the owner was under the impression that the horses were being well fed and didn't feel the need to reply

Both mares of the livery client came with shoes and it was pomised that a farrier would be organised by the clients to remove the shoes and trim the feet, However, this DID NOT happen! When one of the mares lost a rug in the bad weather the livery client was informed again via text message. The reply to this was "a local friend was organised to replace the rug" This DID NOT happen!
In which case the horse was left without a rug while on your property - I would have replaced it myself and billed the owner - the poor horse is the one suffering

SilverShoes was regularly seen by myself and other livery clients, both sound and eating from the bale of haylage! I was not once asked by the HO to bring either mare in from tthe field to check under rugs or wash their legs. This would have been an easy task for myself or two further livery clients that are well known to the HO.

In which case I would have done it for the horse's sake

By her own admision the HO failed to check on the horses herself - more than twice within the first 3 months of the livery time. When paying just before xmas for all charges up to the end of December - NO attempt to check either mare was made and NO arrangements for anybody to carry on, following the clint moving 500 miles away.
I have long standing liveries (6 years+), an immensely experienced equine vet and blacksmith among other proffesional people who CAN and WILL vouch for the quality of service povided by this yard.
It was my husband and two further livery clients who discovered the mare to be lame. I brought the mare in to a stable over night, the HO were contacted and the services of a vet were offered. The condition of the mare was also reported. The reply from the HO was to get a friend to transport the horse in distress delaying veterinary attention for a further 48 hours.
The RSPCA called here yesterdy and found nothing what-so-ever wrong with the premisesn or any animal present at the property (30+ horses) and we were glad they had visited. There is no report coming from the RSPCA with regards to my part in this as no further action is required.
Only after this whole sad situation has it come to my attention that "Silvershoes" has always been a mare who lives in with feed and rugs and regular attention. She was also always prone to mud-fever. We are now wandering if she had any existing illness or condition which may affect the other horses in the field. We are currently struggling to eceive any information with regards to blood test or postmortem results!

This concludes my statement of facts. Feel free to comment as you have been doing, but I WILL NOT be entering any further discussion myself.
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The fact is that this horse suffered, whether from long standing neglect or a short illness, responsibility
should have been taken and I couldn't have stood by and watched as you seem to have done. :(
 
1stclassalan said:
Hmm... all of those people will only have a bearing on this case if they were in a habit of checking all the grass livery horses turned out with the poor mare. I've known a couple of hundredweight "fall off" a big cob in a fortnight though worm infestation so bad it looked as though the poor thing was pooing red cotton wool balls but severe as that was - the weight loss took 14 days - and this horse didn't die.

All the readers here only have the evidence to go on as presented to us but for my part - even given your professed exemplary services - a horse has on the face of it - practically
starved to death whilst left in your care and has died very soon after removal.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.
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I agree.

As the yard owner, why didn't you do the checks THAT DID NOT HAPPEN when you knew they weren't happening?

As an ex-livery yard owner myself, I STILL checked under rugs etc EVEN IF NOT ASKED. I could then ascertain if said horse was getting enough food and hay....

I also didn't let 'friends' come to do stuff, because invariably, it didn't happen.
 
accusedyardowner said:


*******************Statement of FACT ************************

As the afore mentioned YO I feel a few points need to be cleared up! SilverShoes was in the field with 8 other horses "20acres" to include in-foal mares and veterans alike. All were treated the same and have cme through winter absolutely fine. Livery clients were charged grass-livery and were informed via text message that big round bales of haylage was added to the field. No reply to the message was given.
Both mares of the livery client came with shoes and it was pomised that a farrier would be organised by the clients to remove the shoes and trim the feet, However, this DID NOT happen! When one of the mares lost a rug in the bad weather the livery client was informed again via text message. The reply to this was "a local friend was organised to replace the rug" This DID NOT happen!
SilverShoes was regularly seen by myself and other livery clients, both sound and eating from the bale of haylage! I was not once asked by the HO to bring either mare in from tthe field to check under rugs or wash their legs. This would have been an easy task for myself or two further livery clients that are well known to the HO.
By her own admision the HO failed to check on the horses herself - more than twice within the first 3 months of the livery time. When paying just before xmas for all charges up to the end of December - NO attempt to check either mare was made and NO arrangements for anybody to carry on, following the clint moving 500 miles away.
I have long standing liveries (6 years+), an immensely experienced equine vet and blacksmith among other proffesional people who CAN and WILL vouch for the quality of service povided by this yard.
It was my husband and two further livery clients who discovered the mare to be lame. I brought the mare in to a stable over night, the HO were contacted and the services of a vet were offered. The condition of the mare was also reported. The reply from the HO was to get a friend to transport the horse in distress delaying veterinary attention for a further 48 hours.
The RSPCA called here yesterdy and found nothing what-so-ever wrong with the premisesn or any animal present at the property (30+ horses) and we were glad they had visited. There is no report coming from the RSPCA with regards to my part in this as no further action is required.
Only after this whole sad situation has it come to my attention that "Silvershoes" has always been a mare who lives in with feed and rugs and regular attention. She was also always prone to mud-fever. We are now wandering if she had any existing illness or condition which may affect the other horses in the field. We are currently struggling to eceive any information with regards to blood test or postmortem results!

This concludes my statement of facts. Feel free to comment as you have been doing, but I WILL NOT be entering any further discussion myself.
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Not knowing the full facts but can I add a few points?...

You accepted payment for livery?

you was able to access and see this equine?

you could and would have seen any neglect/health issues?

you could have first alerted the owner and then raised the issue further?

Way I see it, you are akin to running a day care for children, I expect if you saw/monitored them for abuse/improper treatment the same then it should have been raised sooner rather than later.
 
accusedyardowner you owe a duty of care to that horse, and you let that horse down. It breaks my heart to know someone could just standby and not even get the vet out when clearly the horse needed it, whether the owner consented or not, the horse's health and life is a priority.
 
I would not want to be in your shoes as the YO of this yard! I have absolutely no sympathy for you or your reasoning and excuses. A horse does not become emaciated in 24 hours. Sonething was badly wrong here whether through illness or lack of care and no doubt this mare suffered. Even on grass livery a horse with a rug on should be checked at the least on a daily basis! So whether the owner answered her texts or didn't, visited often enough, paid enough blah blah blah. YOU as the main carer and YO failed that horse, on your conscience be it, hope you can sleep well at night.
 
accusedyardowner you say that youknew the owner was not visiting the horse you knew she had moved 500 miles away you were charging for livery and hay and you did not check the horse properly?? you knew you were in charge of the horse and failed miserably in your duty so whatever the reason for the horse losing weight YOU should have noticed and taken action including letting the owner know and either feeding more or calling a vet. if my clients thought I would let their horses suffer because they were unable to visit I would be out of business very quickly :mad:
 
"As the afore mentioned YO I feel a few points need to be cleared up! SilverShoes was in the field with 8 other horses "20acres" to include in-foal mares and veterans alike. All were treated the same and have cme through winter absolutely fine. Livery clients were charged grass-livery and were informed via text message that big round bales of haylage was added to the field. No reply to the message was given.
Both mares of the livery client came with shoes and it was pomised that a farrier would be organised by the clients to remove the shoes and trim the feet, However, this DID NOT happen! When one of the mares lost a rug in the bad weather the livery client was informed again via text message. The reply to this was "a local friend was organised to replace the rug" This DID NOT happen!
SilverShoes was regularly seen by myself and other livery clients, both sound and eating from the bale of haylage! I was not once asked by the HO to bring either mare in from tthe field to check under rugs or wash their legs. This would have been an easy task for myself or two further livery clients that are well known to the HO.
By her own admision the HO failed to check on the horses herself - more than twice within the first 3 months of the livery time. When paying just before xmas for all charges up to the end of December - NO attempt to check either mare was made and NO arrangements for anybody to carry on, following the clint moving 500 miles away.
I have long standing liveries (6 years+), an immensely experienced equine vet and blacksmith among other proffesional people who CAN and WILL vouch for the quality of service povided by this yard.
It was my husband and two further livery clients who discovered the mare to be lame. I brought the mare in to a stable over night, the HO were contacted and the services of a vet were offered. The condition of the mare was also reported. The reply from the HO was to get a friend to transport the horse in distress delaying veterinary attention for a further 48 hours.
The RSPCA called here yesterdy and found nothing what-so-ever wrong with the premisesn or any animal present at the property (30+ horses) and we were glad they had visited. There is no report coming from the RSPCA with regards to my part in this as no further action is required.
Only after this whole sad situation has it come to my attention that "Silvershoes" has always been a mare who lives in with feed and rugs and regular attention. She was also always prone to mud-fever. We are now wandering if she had any existing illness or condition which may affect the other horses in the field. We are currently struggling to eceive any information with regards to blood test or postmortem results! "

I do not know what planet you are living on but most caring people who have been left an animal in their care paid or unpaid would be checking the animal for weight loss, getting their feet trimmed, rugging if nessessary, calling the vet if needed and worrying about the money later. I have only a small amount of equines but I have 3 bins of spare rugs.
Its so easy to send someone a picture by phone or e-mail as I did the other day as I have a pony on loan and her owner was asking how she was doing. I am non tecqi but it took 5 mins.
I employ people to look after my horses in my abscence, I leave them with details of my vet and permission to call my vet if they are concerned, if you are an experienced YO understand why these proceedures where not in place and used.
Just because someone doesn't visit or ring on a regular basis doesn't mean they do not care, they just think you know what you are doing and would be in contact if something is wrong.
The poor mare is dead, if it had happened on my land I would be mortified what ever the cause and would understand the owner being upset and angrey even if I had done everything possible to maintain the horses welfare.
 
OMG couldn't be the worst type of trolling ever could it? I hope not, I only posted to the OP about how sorry I was about the loss of her beautiful mare ... but then it's getting worse. Hope it's not turning into a trollfest :confused:
 
doriangrey said:
OMG couldn't be the worst type of trolling ever could it? I hope not, I only posted to the OP about how sorry I was about the loss of her beautiful mare ... but then it's getting worse. Hope it's not turning into a trollfest :confused:
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Well the latest one does have a lot of similarities to concernedyardowner earlier. I thought she was a troll or the YO, I think its the same person, but which she is I dont know.
 
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