Another fatal dog attack

[YorksG]

Food, wormer, microchip, any jabs/other vet treatment needed for pups and/or dam, stud fee, breeding related health tests for dam, equipment such as whelping materials. Breeder must have physical receipts for all of these. Add up the total spent, divide it by the number of puppies, and then halve that result if it's above £999.99. End number is the maximum that breeder can charge per puppy. Buyer must be provided with a copy of the receipts mentioned earlier before paying anything. No allowance for time spent, effort put in, training, socialising. or cost of utilities such as water, electricity, etc.

Of course it would rely on those in authority bothering to enforce it, and doubtless they'd manage to muck that up somehow

That looks like a recipe for ensuring that no one would deliberately breed any dog. So no planned breeding at all. I think we need to consider the unintended consequences of our actions.

 

[AmyMay]

Sickening footage shows XL Bully savaging a small dog

Merseyside Police were called to reports that a dog had been attacked by another dog in Maghull, at around 4.45pm on Sunday. Terrifying footage shows the XL Bully lunge at the small dog.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[blackcob]

It looks from some angles that the attacking dog had more of a grip on the harness than on flesh, that might just have saved that small dog.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Food, wormer, microchip, any jabs/other vet treatment needed for pups and/or dam, stud fee, breeding related health tests for dam, equipment such as whelping materials. Breeder must have physical receipts for all of these. Add up the total spent, divide it by the number of puppies, and then halve that result if it's above £999.99. End number is the maximum that breeder can charge per puppy. Buyer must be provided with a copy of the receipts mentioned earlier before paying anything. No allowance for time spent, effort put in, training, socialising. or cost of utilities such as water, electricity, etc.

Of course it would rely on those in authority bothering to enforce it, and doubtless they'd manage to muck that up somehow

MM will no doubt remember similar cases, but I know of two GSD breeders who were reported to the taxman, and when they provided all the proof of what they'd spent in their breeding endeavours and how much they had 'earned', they actually got a rebate.

 

[skinnydipper]

Sickening footage shows XL Bully savaging a small dog

Merseyside Police were called to reports that a dog had been attacked by another dog in Maghull, at around 4.45pm on Sunday. Terrifying footage shows the XL Bully lunge at the small dog.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Right, what's the answer to this then if people don't want them kept on a lead and muzzled?

 

[bonny]

Right, what's the answer to this then if people don't want them kept on a lead and muzzled?

I doubt you will find anyone who doesn’t want them to be kept on a lead. The obvious answer is to just not have them amongst us fullstop.

 

[splashgirl45]

I’m probably tempting fate but in over 50 years of dog ownership none of mine have ever slipped out of their collars, maybe because I use a martingale collar and not their leather collars with my details on , I like their leather collars to be loose just in case they get caught on a branch when going through the woods … it’s not that difficult to keep your dogs under control, just needs a bit of effort which it seems these XL bully owners are unable to do… that video makes horrifying viewing for those of us who have little dogs

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Right, what's the answer to this then if people don't want them kept on a lead and muzzled?

Replace that bully with a dobie and thats what we have to worry about in my area. People actively leave the area if they spot him and his owner in the distance

 

[skinnydipper]

Replace that bully with a dobie and thats what we have to worry about in my area. People actively leave the area if they spot him and his owner in the distance

I hope this helps:

4. Report a dog​

You can report a dangerous or out of control dog to:

• your council’s dog warden service
• your local police force

Print Controlling your dog in public: Overview - GOV.UK

You can be fined if your dog is out of control in public - find out about Dog Control Orders, banned dogs, dog fouling and reporting a dangerous dog

www.gov.uk

 

[conniegirl]

And another

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-09-13/xl-bully-to-be-put-down-after-biting-man-on-bottom-in-street

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I hope this helps:

4. Report a dog​

You can report a dangerous or out of control dog to:

• your council’s dog warden service
• your local police force

Print Controlling your dog in public: Overview - GOV.UK

You can be fined if your dog is out of control in public - find out about Dog Control Orders, banned dogs, dog fouling and reporting a dangerous dog

www.gov.uk

My friend went this route after her TM was attacked from behind by two Akitas. No warning, just landed on her. Thankfully her thick coat gave her a fair bit of protection but she did have several puncture wounds. My friend had a heck of a job getting them off and her dog was screaming. Police weren't interested but she just kept badgering them and quoting the relevant bits of the DDA until they finally went round and warned the owners. These dogs were brother and sister and kept in a pen in the garden. Their children had let them out. There were several reports of Akitas attacking other dogs that summer, no idea if they were the same ones. Eventually I believe the two that attacked her dog were put down.
So often police and dog warden just don't want to know so you really have to get after them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So often police and dog warden just don't want to know so you really have to get after them.

This is what I have found. The two dogs that I reported to both the police and the dog warden weren’t dangerous as such, but they were repeatedly escaping and getting onto major A roads.

Members of the public kept going to considerable personal risk to catch them as they raced up and down the road dodging traffic. The owner (wife of huntsman to local hunt) posted on social media that ‘at least they were out having fun and not kept on a lead like the keyboard warriors’ dogs’ .

Both police and dog warden said this was the other’s problem, not theirs .

 

[CorvusCorax]

This is what I have found. The two dogs that I reported to both the police and the dog warden weren’t dangerous as such, but they were repeatedly escaping and getting onto major A roads.

Members of the public kept going to considerable personal risk to catch them as they raced up and down the road dodging traffic. The owner (wife of huntsman to local hunt) posted on social media that ‘at least they were out having fun and not kept on a lead like the keyboard warriors’ dogs’ .

Both police and dog warden said this was the other’s problem, not theirs .

Did anyone take them to a pound, where they'd have to be paid for to get them back?

 

[skinnydipper]

I was trying to help someone who replied to my post. Would anyone else like to offer SC some useful advice?

 

[marmalade76]

Sickening footage shows XL Bully savaging a small dog

Merseyside Police were called to reports that a dog had been attacked by another dog in Maghull, at around 4.45pm on Sunday. Terrifying footage shows the XL Bully lunge at the small dog.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Looks like it's had pups so yet more of the bl00dy things

 

[NinjaPony]

Can’t read that article as it’s too close to home. I can confirm that if a dog savages your dog and nearly kills it, the best outcome you can get is the police going round and telling the owner to put a muzzle on the dog. Unless it’s an attack on a human, there will be no meaningful consequences or action taken to prevent it happening again. This particular bully nearly ripped my dog in two, she needed 4 hours of emergency surgery and is very very lucky to be alive. It was incredibly traumatic for everyone and we actively avoid places with lots of dogs off lead. Honestly I would liked to have seen the dog PTS, I know it sounds harsh, but the damage that dog did was extraordinary and as it stands, that dog is essentially free to go and do the same to any other dog (or person). If you know your dog is dog-aggressive if should be on a lead at the very bare minimum and ideally muzzled. I breathe a sigh of relief when I see a muzzled dog because I know the owner is taking precautions to protect people and dogs and I am very grateful to them for being responsible.

 

[skinnydipper]

In March 2014 one of my lurchers was severely mauled by a dog and sustained serious injuries in an unprovoked attack. Due to the severity of her injuries the vet advised me to contact the Police. The Police were helpful, offered an appointment and took a Statement. They said that the dog would receive a doggy ASBO (Dog Control Order?) and be required to be kept on a lead and muzzled in public.

Although I gave a good description of the dog and owner, I didn’t have his name. He tried to make off at the time of the attack and was unco-operative when I caught up with him. The Police said they would keep an eye out for him but without knowing his name and address they were unable to take further action. I wasn’t on social media but someone I know posted a description, no-one came forward and identified him.

I still have the Crime Reference number and the name and number of the Police Officer. I never saw the man and his dog again.

 

[marmalade76]

It's so wrong that nothing can legally be done about serious dog on dog attacks. There doesn't seem like much can be done when they attack horses either but surely both are dogs dangerously out of control?

 

[skinnydipper]

I know this was aimed at Stangs, but what a ludicrous statement to make. Shouldn’t we all put a lot of effort into researching topics we feel strongly about? How else can people reach an informed viewpoint?

I also have no desire to own an XL Bully (I like Staffies and Labs), but I’m still ardently against the expansion of BSL. It has nothing to do with being a fan of this breed, Pitbulls, or any other banned breed - it’s the concept of BSL itself I take issue with.

Do you know how I reached that viewpoint? By spending the 13 years since I first started studying Law researching the topic. Of late, that’s also included doing a lot of reading on XL Bullies. Doesn’t mean I want to take one home with me.

The post above was addressed to me. I think you may have missed my reply.

Please could you tell me, following your research on XL bullies what was your conclusion?

Do you have any suggestions for preventing or reducing the number of deaths and serious injuries caused by them?

Thank you.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Did anyone take them to a pound, where they'd have to be paid for to get them back?

Not that I heard of, though I agree that it is what needed doing. The dogs did have tags on their collars, so people who'd picked up the dogs helpfully phoned the owner direct, causing her minimal inconvenience . Actually, I'm not sure that they did always have tags on, because people who'd picked them up kept posting photos of the two dogs asking who they belonged to, and locals would tell them.

Anyhoo, the pair of them (humans) have thankfully moved on to pastures new, him now with a further two convictions for illegal hunting while he was in post .

Good riddance all round.

 

[meleeka]

I know of a dog that’s attacked numerous dogs and it’s owner has been told my the police it must be kept on a lead. Of course that lasted a couple of days at most. He’s been reported again and too, but there’s been no prosecution or anything.

If our current laws were enforced better, I bet we’d see less problems with out of control dogs.

 

[marmalade76]

Surely we are coming to a point where it needs to be enforced?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I think one would struggle to name any legislation that is being well enforced right now.

 

[cbmcts]

Right, what's the answer to this then if people don't want them kept on a lead and muzzled?

Political will to actually enforce the laws already in place - rather than passing more ineffective laws so that won't be enforced within a month or two. Doesn't solve what is a serious problem. While XL bullies are a huge problem, they are not the only problem. Other breeds can do serious damage too.

It's so wrong that nothing can legally be done about serious dog on dog attacks. There doesn't seem like much can be done when they attack horses either but surely both are dogs dangerously out of control?

Legally, there are laws. they just aren't enforced.

I know of a dog that’s attacked numerous dogs and it’s owner has been told my the police it must be kept on a lead. Of course that lasted a couple of days at most. He’s been reported again and too, but there’s been no prosecution or anything.

If our current laws were enforced better, I bet we’d see less problems with out of control dogs.

It would be really effective if 'low level' misbehaviour was policed, either by dog wardens/police - like most things, there are loads of warnings/near misses usually before someone is seriously injured or killed but they only come to light once the attack has happened.

Surely we are coming to a point where it needs to be enforced?

Noooo - of course not. It's much easier to respond to knee jerk demands, put a proposed law into parliament (knowing that it was unlikely to pass before the next General Election) and preening in the DM about how tough they are on the type of people who have dogs like 'that'. (sarcasm) Meanwhile, nothing changes. Much easier than investing in services, bringing in a dog licence/tax to fund it - Tory voters in the Home Counties wouldn't like that, their spaniels and labs shouldn't need to be under control - and actually do something useful. In fairness, the opposition wouldn't do much more except maybe fund public services slightly better.

 

[skinnydipper]

Political will to actually enforce the laws already in place - rather than passing more ineffective laws so that won't be enforced within a month or two. Doesn't solve what is a serious problem. While XL bullies are a huge problem, they are not the only problem. Other breeds can do serious damage too.

Which laws are these that will protect people from being attacked/killed by their own XL bully in their homes, attacks on random people in the street and other people's dogs being attacked by them almost daily?

 

[Cortez]

In March 2014 one of my lurchers was severely mauled by a dog and sustained serious injuries in an unprovoked attack. Due to the severity of her injuries the vet advised me to contact the Police. The Police were helpful, offered an appointment and took a Statement. They said that the dog would receive a doggy ASBO (Dog Control Order?) and be required to be kept on a lead and muzzled in public.

Although I gave a good description of the dog and owner, I didn’t have his name. He tried to make off at the time of the attack and was unco-operative when I caught up with him. The Police said they would keep an eye out for him but without knowing his name and address they were unable to take further action. I wasn’t on social media but someone I know posted a description, no-one came forward and identified him.

I still have the Crime Reference number and the name and number of the Police Officer. I never saw the man and his dog again.

Is there a reason why people don't sue the owners of dogs that have attacked their dogs, for veterinary expenses at the very least, not to mention fear and distress (to owner, and to their pet)?

 

[cbmcts]

Which laws are these that will protect people from being attacked/killed by their own XL bully in their homes, attacks on random people in the street and other people's dogs being attacked by them almost daily?

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

An Act to prohibit persons from having in their possession or custody dogs belonging to types bred for fighting; to impose restrictions in respect of such dogs pending the coming into force of the prohibition; to enable restrictions to be imposed in relation to other types of dog which present a...

www.legislation.gov.uk

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/12/contents/enacted part 7 dangerous dogs - note the bit about being a fit and proper person as part of control orders. That could and is used in some cases in court when deciding if a dog is returned home. Should weed out some of the criminal types that are alleged to use the XL Bullies as intimidation tools?

The laws are there and to be fair, there is only so much that can be legislated in the home as a preventative.

If people insist on getting large/iffy dogs and not managing them correctly, the law can be proactive, if there was the will to do so, in public at the first misdemeanour such as running loose, attacking another dog or a horse but in the home, most law enforcement is reactive and it would probably be breaching civil liberties to change that too much.

My point is that while I do not defend the XLBs, is that just by banning them is not going to solve issue of people being injured and killed by dogs. Those who have bullies now will replace them with cane corsa, Boerbel, mastiffy types or the massive LGD breeds. Any of those dogs are just as dangerous when badly bred and mishandled and people can and do die if they are dangerously out of control. Banning one breed, which may reassure the public for a while but it would be a pointless PR exercise - sad cases make bad laws generally.

 

[skinnydipper]

Is there a reason why people don't sue the owners of dogs that have attacked their dogs, for veterinary expenses at the very least, not to mention fear and distress (to owner, and to their pet)?

It's a bit difficult when you don't know who they are.

 

[Chucho]

Is there a reason why people don't sue the owners of dogs that have attacked their dogs, for veterinary expenses at the very least, not to mention fear and distress (to owner, and to their pet)?

I can only speak for us, but we were brassic at the time (both doing PhDs) and having never experienced anything like it before, were completely taken aback by the way that the police behaved and the fact that the other owner refused to pay costs. Instead we chose to tell everyone we knew locally and never walked that footpath again. It was awkward because we'd see the owner out and about (not with her dog) and she was well known in the local community as she bred/produced distinctive horses. She wouldn't have known who we were, but we knew her!

 

[skinnydipper]

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991

An Act to prohibit persons from having in their possession or custody dogs belonging to types bred for fighting; to impose restrictions in respect of such dogs pending the coming into force of the prohibition; to enable restrictions to be imposed in relation to other types of dog which present a...

www.legislation.gov.uk

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/12/contents/enacted part 7 dangerous dogs

The laws are there and to be fair, there is only so much that can be legislated with in the home as a preventative.

These appear to apply once an offence has been committed, its a bit late then, when the damage is done.