Another fatal dog attack

[CorvusCorax]

Here's the thing though, if someone does not want or have a good feeling about or feel that they like or could offer the right home to a rescue dog, or indeed a puppy, they can say no/can walk away. This has always been an option and one people should not feel bad about.
In most cases, a dog is supposed to live in your home as a companion animal/pet for a decade or more, it is extreme folly to make a knee jerk decision on something so important.
I don't want an iPhone, I don't care how great people say they are, they're just not for me, I don't like them, I would not take one as a gift. And that is a lot lower stakes than a living, breathing animal.
Again, it's a wider debate - trends, heart over-ruling head, wanting something NOW/in a hurry and not being prepared to wait, or be willing to take someone else's word for something instead of pausing, thinking and doing a bit of research, these are all factors.

 

[asmp]

Today’s American bulldog horror story is brought to you by the phrase ‘what were the RSPCA thinking?’ According to the lady fostering this one (which caused such catastrophic damage to her arm during a 20 minute+ attack that her arm had to be amputated) the RSPCA knew the dog had previously attacked two women and rehomed it with her without telling her.

Dog owner who lost arm after pet bit her is suing RSPCA for £200K

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT - Joanna Harris, of Crowborough, East Sussex, said the RSPCA failed to tell her that the dog had attacked two women eight months before it set upon her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

£200k isn’t enough for the loss of a limb.

 

[Red-1]

And another...

Two women are 'savaged' by two Staffies in horror mauling

Armed police raced to the scene of the bloodbath after reports that two women had been attacked by two Staffordshire Terriers outside a house on Goodison Road in Liverpool.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A witness said "
'The dogs were savaging the woman. I have never witnessed anything like it. One of them had her leggings in its mouth and the other had ripped off her top.

'There was blood everywhere and she had injuries to her face and neck. She was in a really bad way. The dogs were in a frenzy. They were white Staffies but were red with blood.'

After stumbling upon the scene, the father-of-one said he honked his horn to try and scare off the dogs and fled back to his car when they rounded on him.

He continued: 'When I saw it running over I was shaking. My instant reaction was to help but I saw the dogs were in a frenzy. I'm a single parent - if I got injured and had to go to hospital my daughter would be on her own.

'I'm an animal lover and know the staffies' instincts are to protect.'

According to Mr Cannon the dogs didn't leave until the police arrived with one squad car being forced to ram one of the beasts with their car.

He continued: 'When the police came they rammed one of the dogs with their car and the other dog ran away in the direction of City Road. The police helicopter was up looking for the other dog.

'It's one of those things you read about or see on TV. To see it was surreal. It's sickening to have seen it. It was horrendous.'

 

[Red-1]

Today’s American bulldog horror story is brought to you by the phrase ‘what were the RSPCA thinking?’ According to the lady fostering this one (which caused such catastrophic damage to her arm during a 20 minute+ attack that her arm had to be amputated) the RSPCA knew the dog had previously attacked two women and rehomed it with her without telling her.

Dog owner who lost arm after pet bit her is suing RSPCA for £200K

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT - Joanna Harris, of Crowborough, East Sussex, said the RSPCA failed to tell her that the dog had attacked two women eight months before it set upon her.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think the RSPCA do owe her if they knew it had bitten twice before and hadn't told her. It sounds like she had asked for it to be picked up after it tried to bite her the first time too. It also makes it more conclusive as she was only fostering at the time, so the dog was property of the RSPCA.

In other instances, the owner of a dangerous dog would be prosecuted for being the owner and not keeping the dog under control, I don't see why it should be different because the dog belongs to the RSPCA.

Personally, I hope she wins.

 

[Red-1]

As a wider comment, I think rescues are sometimes forced into a no kill policy because the do gooders won't donate to them.

That particular dog should obviously have had his history disclosed, but he more likely should have been pts.

I think a no kill policy is one thing, as in there is not a 2 week (or whatever) time limit on the dog finding a home. Keeping a dangerous dog, who has attacked twice before, alive is simply criminal, especially when it is fostered out without disclosure.

Again, if the owner had been a different member of the community, they would be prosecuted. IMO, it is poor that the woman is having to put a civil case together, when really the Police should be prosecuting.

 

[Cortez]

Did I read this right? The guy ran away and left the poor woman to be further attacked?

And another...

Two women are 'savaged' by two Staffies in horror mauling

Armed police raced to the scene of the bloodbath after reports that two women had been attacked by two Staffordshire Terriers outside a house on Goodison Road in Liverpool.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A witness said "
'The dogs were savaging the woman. I have never witnessed anything like it. One of them had her leggings in its mouth and the other had ripped off her top.

'There was blood everywhere and she had injuries to her face and neck. She was in a really bad way. The dogs were in a frenzy. They were white Staffies but were red with blood.'

After stumbling upon the scene, the father-of-one said he honked his horn to try and scare off the dogs and fled back to his car when they rounded on him.

He continued: 'When I saw it running over I was shaking. My instant reaction was to help but I saw the dogs were in a frenzy. I'm a single parent - if I got injured and had to go to hospital my daughter would be on her own.

'I'm an animal lover and know the staffies' instincts are to protect.'

According to Mr Cannon the dogs didn't leave until the police arrived with one squad car being forced to ram one of the beasts with their car.

He continued: 'When the police came they rammed one of the dogs with their car and the other dog ran away in the direction of City Road. The police helicopter was up looking for the other dog.

'It's one of those things you read about or see on TV. To see it was surreal. It's sickening to have

 

[Clodagh]

Did I read this right? The guy ran away and left the poor woman to be further attacked?

I’m not sure I’d have risked my life. I’d happily run one over but I see him being killed/seriously mauled as well isn’t going to help. One man isn’t going to get two bull breeds in a frenzy off a prone victim.

 

[conniegirl]

I’m not sure I’d have risked my life. I’d happily run one over but I see him being killed/seriously mauled as well isn’t going to help. One man isn’t going to get two bull breeds in a frenzy off a prone victim.

This, also as a single dad he could not take the risk. If he had been severely injured or killed (injury at least was fairly certain) his child would have had no one

 

[Cortez]

I despair....to leave someone being seriously attacked and DO NOTHING? It matters not one jot who he's related to, everyone has people they are responsible for - but to leave someone in that situation is appalling. Throw rocks, wallop them with a tree branch, throw a jacket over them; do something. Next level is what - film it on your phone?

 

[Red-1]

No, I don't think I would get out on my own in that situation either. I would use my phone to get help.

 

[conniegirl]

I despair....to leave someone being seriously attacked and DO NOTHING? It matters not one jot who he's related to, everyone has people they are responsible for - but to leave someone in that situation is appalling. Throw rocks, wallop them with a tree branch, throw a jacket over them; do something. Next level is what - film it on your phone?

The dogs had turned towards him.

You would rather he orphaned a little girl than backed off and phoned for help.

I despair, i hope to god you don’t have children if thats your attitude to leaving one alone in the world.

 

[Cortez]

The dogs had turned towards him.

You would rather he orphaned a little girl than backed off and phoned for help.

I despair, i hope to god you don’t have children if thats your attitude to leaving one alone in

So, what? Parents are not supposed to help anyone in case they put themselves in danger? Only childless people can join the army, police force, be firemen?

I've waded in and broken up several dog fights & attacks, including on children, and I've been bitten. It wouldn't occur to me not to try and help.

 

[splashgirl45]

It’s about time the rescues PTS any dogs who are known to have serious issues like biting people or attacking other dogs, they keep saying they are full up with dogs so why keep trying with these dogs. I know it’s likely to be problems caused by people that have made the dogs behave in that way but it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, the dog can be PTS humanely and it won’t be aware that it could have had a longer life… part of the problem is that the general public will be up in arms if dogs are being PTS for behavioural issues and the rescues would be vilified.

 

[bonny]

It’s about time the rescues PTS any dogs who are known to have serious issues like biting people or attacking other dogs, they keep saying they are full up with dogs so why keep trying with these dogs. I know it’s likely to be problems caused by people that have made the dogs behave in that way but it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, the dog can be PTS humanely and it won’t be aware that it could have had a longer life… part of the problem is that the general public will be up in arms if dogs are being PTS for behavioural issues and the rescues would be vilified.

The general public wouldn’t even know. It’s not exactly common knowledge who is putting a dog down today or tomorrow and I suspect the reluctance is more to do with dog people thinking every dog will come good in the right hands.

 

[conniegirl]

Parents are not supposed to help anyone in case they put themselves in danger?

Single parents have to consider the consequences for their child if it goes horribly wrong.

This guy did and he judged that a stranger was not worth risking his childs only parent for.

I would do the same as him. Getting bitten is one thing, getting mauled or killed is a whole different ballgame.

He is the sole guardian of that little girl, the only bread winner and nothing in this world can replace a parent for a child.

 

[splashgirl45]

The general public wouldn’t even know. It’s not exactly common knowledge who is putting a dog down today or tomorrow and I suspect the reluctance is more to do with dog people thinking every dog will come good in the right hands.

I agree but these dogs don’t seem to be being rehomed to experienced people just Joe Public . I have had mainly lurchers and terriers for over 50 years and like to think I am a capable dog owner but there is no way I would be good enough to cope with an aggressive dog and I wouldn’t want to, as we often say with horses PTS isn’t the worst thing that could happen to them..

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm an only child with two ageing parents who live apart, one of whom has had cancer, the older both they and I get, the more circumspect I am about what situations I get myself into voluntarily, including dog fights, as I am no good to them incapacitated.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Well people do actually get bent out of shape, including on this forum, about 'kill shelters'.

But interestingly often don't seem to be willing to take on these types of dogs/'give them a chance' themselves.

Most true 'dog people' I know understand that it's genetics and breeding that make poor temperament/inabilty to deal with/recover from stress or stimulation rather than 'abuse/bad experiences made them like this' and love ain't gonna fix that, Joe Public sees people 'saving' dogs and think it's amaaaazing.

Meant to quote Bonny but the forum is still jumping all over the place.

 

[P3LH]

Having been present at the scene of a serious dog attack on a person from a large bull breed dog - I would honestly say unless you have a gun, knife or other weapon (and are prepared to use it), you are more use to the victim calling the police or attempting to use other methods rather than direct intervention.

 

[P3LH]

Well people do actually get bent out of shape, including on this forum, about 'kill shelters'.

But interestingly often don't seem to be willing to take on these types of dogs/'give them a chance' themselves.

Most true 'dog people' I know understand that it's genetics and breeding that make poor temperament/inabilty to deal with/recover from stress or stimulation rather than 'abuse/bad experiences made them like this' and love ain't gonna fix that, Joe Public sees people 'saving' dogs and think it's amaaaazing.

Meant to quote Bonny but the forum is still jumping all over the place.

This is what’s not understood enough.

Nearly every dog on local rescue websites are ‘shy of strangers’ or need a quiet home - the backstory for most is handed in due to change of circumstances as opposed to appalling abuse case.

I have a borderline psychopath who has had nothing but love and adoration - she’s still a bit psycho because it’s in her bitch line (imo - although denied by others) and has to be well managed in day to day life. I have another who is aloof and if left to his own devices would be timid in unfamiliar situations (isn’t as is encouraged to cope with life) who was super socialised, well trained and well rounded but I called he would be like this as a quiet and reserved little pup. I have another who hasn’t ever batted an eyelid at anything in life or had a crossed word with anyone. All brought up pretty much the same. It’s them. In their breeding and individual personalities. Combined with breed specific traits. You can’t take a racing pigeon and expect it to crow at dawn to wake your neighbours up.

 

[P3LH]

I don’t do social media - aside from an instagram page for dog photos so I don’t bore people to death via WhatsApp. Recently I was shown a post shared by someone we know, from someone they clearly knew who was rehoming a dog they bred. 13 month old, intact, male, Cane Corso. The single sentence to find the right home for this dog? ‘13 month old pure corso come back to me, has bit owner a few times but been fine with me so far’.

The world is full of arseholes, unfortunately not enough of them serve a purpose of producing faecal matter anymore - most seem to own and breed dogs.

 

[Cortez]

Much as it is sad to have to put dogs down, in the current situation of overwhelmed rescues surely it is practical and necessary to concentrate on the animals that are most likely to find suitable homes? The very old, ill, badly injured and especially aggressive or unpredictable dogs should be at the front of the queue for euthanasia as the only way of reducing the overflow and allowing more animals to be taken from awful situations. Genuine cruelty cases trump dogs that are simply being surrendered because their owners can’t be bothered to look after them.

Oh, and stop the breeding and sale of dogs by every tom dick and harry.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I despair....to leave someone being seriously attacked and DO NOTHING? It matters not one jot who he's related to, everyone has people they are responsible for - but to leave someone in that situation is appalling. Throw rocks, wallop them with a tree branch, throw a jacket over them; do something. Next level is what - film it on your phone?

What I understood from the text quoted by Red-1 in the post above is that when the man went to help, the dogs turned on him. He then got back into his car.

If the dogs were jumping up at his car window while he phoned for help, then the woman could get to safety or other passers by could have helped her.

I think that what he did wasn't heroic or brave, but it worked. If it works, it isn't stupid.

 

[cauda equina]

Does the RSPCA have a 'We never put a healthy dog down' policy like the Dogs Trust?
They (RSPCA) to be perfectly ok with putting healthy horses down but perhaps it's a cost thing

And then - what is healthy?
If a combination of genetics and prior handling makes their behaviour such that they can never be safely rehomed surely pts would be better than a whole life spent in kennels

 

[Clodagh]

Does the RSPCA have a 'We never put a healthy dog down' policy like the Dogs Trust?
They (RSPCA) to be perfectly ok with putting healthy horses down but perhaps it's a cost thing

And then - what is healthy?
If a combination of genetics and prior handling makes their behaviour such that they can never be safely rehomed surely pts would be better than a whole life spent in kennels

The RSPCA are normally very keen on pts (and rightly so). I don’t know how this one wasn’t.

 

[scats]

I groomed the only XL bully on my books this week. He’s now 1 and just under 8 stone. He’s a gorgeous, friendly dog and I adore him, but the size of his head and jaw have to be seen to be believed.
Anyone on my FB will have seen a pic of him and me this week, and the size of my head compared to his mouth was quite evident!
I am so torn because he is absolutely gorgeous and so unbelievably friendly and loving, but that size of animal is a weapon and no human would stand a chance.

 

[cauda equina]

I wonder why people choose to have such dogs though, when there are many other breeds which are gorgeous and friendly and far less capable of killing anything

 

[Moobli]

I don’t do social media - aside from an instagram page for dog photos so I don’t bore people to death via WhatsApp. Recently I was shown a post shared by someone we know, from someone they clearly knew who was rehoming a dog they bred. 13 month old, intact, male, Cane Corso. The single sentence to find the right home for this dog? ‘13 month old pure corso come back to me, has bit owner a few times but been fine with me so far’.

The world is full of arseholes, unfortunately not enough of them serve a purpose of producing faecal matter anymore - most seem to own and breed dogs.

Ooh what’s your Insta so I can give you a follow …

 

[Moobli]

I wonder why people choose to have such dogs though, when there are many other breeds which are gorgeous and friendly and far less capable of killing anything

I don’t know much about the various bull breeds but believe they were originally bred and trained to display aggression against other dogs, aggression against people was discouraged because, even while fighting, the dogs had to be handled.

One site says this about Bully temperament …

“The American Bully is a happy, outgoing, stable and confident dog. Gentle and loving toward people. Good-natured, amusing, extremely loyal and an affectionate family pet. Almost always obedient, this dog wants nothing more than to please its master”.

They do nothing for me aesthetically and I would worry about their sheer power, but I do also remember in the 1980s when the same concerns were raised about GSDs, Dobermann and Rottweilers.

Edit: typo

 

[CorvusCorax]

As a generalisation, though, the German breeds are very well documented and recorded, they all go back to one or two dogs, you can research lines and pedigrees or ask someone else to and have a better idea of what you might get and what is best avoided.

When all you've got is breeding for colour and looks and to make money, when the only info you have is 'Scooby Doo x Princess Chardonnay' and some cool Insta pics, you might have a good dog or you might have a ticking timebomb.