Another fatal dog attack

Moobli

Moobli

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Clodagh said:
I’m lucky in that I live in the middle of nowhere and no off lead wouldn’t make a difference to me, except when I go to the beach. I wouldn’t take them there on the lead, to me there would be no point.
But if I lived in an urban area I think it would be sensible.
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Same here. My GSDs are on lead at the moment because of lambing, ground-nesting birds etc and it does actually make life less stressful in lots of respects but I wouldn’t enjoy the beach almost as much if there were lead rules. I probably just wouldn’t go.
 
Goldenstar

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I am often now on a busy beach and I have say where I go ( the village where I will be living in the future ) there’s very few problems the only one you encounter is the odd idiot ball throwing when way to close to others .
it’s a busy beach for dogs .
Across the other side of the estuary it’s much quieter because it’s a longish walk to get to the beach ( but not for us because we have a key and can drive down ) that’s where you have to be more careful because some walkers there are there because it’s quiet and they can’t get their dogs back .
I feel sorry for almost everybody in this mess people in over their heads ( although it’s self inflicted)the dogs , the other people with dogs the people without dogs the lot .
There was a piece in DM yesterday written by a journalist ( ?) she has two Lurcher types one young who is rescue from Spain it chases sheep it’s difficult to walk it has poor recall …. It lives in a one bed open plan flat in London .
WTF , why did she not get a greyhound the right retired greyhound would love lying on the sofa while she wrote ( works from home ) followed by a nice leader walk about the park .
No she got an unsocialised dog from heavens knows where who had lived god knows how and then endured a long road trip to a strange environment and is looking for sympathy because she let it off lead on a trip to stay with a friend and it chased sheep .
Sure it’s a cute dog very attractive but like horses you need to be sensible and use your head .
 
Smitty

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Well, my best friend is OS map. Have tried numerous places where dogs are meant to be on leads, incl Nat Trust, beaches etc and I have found it just doesn't happen. I am mostly too scared to go on beaches unacompanied nowadays as I have a terror of bull, guarding breeds and anything over spaniel size😐. I find you get a lot of these on beaches and last summer an off lead GSD started interfering with my terrier who was tied to my deckchair and growled at us!! Obviously its owner thought that was fine and we had a short discussion. He didnt even have a lead and it was an on lead only dogs beach ...

My trips to Nat Trust properties are not much more successful 😅 I was knocked flying by a Goldie whose owner joyously yelled out 'Bingo' or 'Goal' or something and on another occasion I was with a friend, who along with their owners, watched in fascination as I picked up dog and scaled a five bar gate to get away from 2 offlead Rottweilers. In all fairness, the dogs were not actually doing anything, but I felt sick with terror.
 
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cbmcts

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Be careful what you wish for folks! Just because a dog is on a lead does not mean it's under control - leads snap, collars are slipped, they can be dropped and in fairness, if a dog is 20kgs plus and untrained, they can still drag a handler about and connect with another dog or person. Muzzles and leads, while the are useful tools do not automatically mean your dog is under control and do give a false sense of security at times.

I'm not anti leads and muzzles - one of mine is and always will be on lead in public spaces and every dog that I have including fosters is muzzle and crate trained as a standard part of their education. I use headcollars routinely until a dog is trained to walk nicely as I cannot stand being dragged about. More often than not, they still wear a headcollar even when trained as a precaution as many of the dogs I walk are not that far off my own weight and if it all goes south, I want to be able to stay upright AND control my dog. Training is key - a rock solid 'leave' installed, a good 'watch me' and 'heel' as you march off. A right foot to block the other dog and a loud bellow at the dozy owner to come and get the f'ing dog helps and I also carry a litre bottle of water with a sports cap to squirt in faces if I have to. Yet I still have to control a random dog that isn't mine on a regular basis despite being picky where I walk! Can I also say, that Southend Dog Training (very local to me) talk a very good talk but the reality is very different - electric collars as a standard tool galore. Adam is a very good dog handler and watching him work one on one with a dog is lovely but their classes are horrific to watch and I've personally had to handle the dogs they have failed with when they end up in rescue. Despite the claims that your £2k plus gives you lifetime back up, they disappear. Until they are called out on social media and then the personal attacks start...

I feel very sorry for the BC pup above but I'm not sure that a muzzle on the big dog would have left him uninjured. And the pup's owner is just as much as much if not more at fault than the big dogs owner - his dog really wasn't under control.
 
some show

some show

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My greyhound lad was off-lead in a secure field not long after I first got him when a tiny puppy got under the gate and ran in - the perfect, squealing, wriggling target for his prey drive. Because he was wearing a muzzle I was able to chase after them, grab him by the collar and the puppy came away unscathed after being pinned down and chased several times - but it would certainly have died if the muzzle wasn't there. Years later it's still something that comes to me while lying in bed at night 😵‍💫 Thankfully the little dog remained dog-friendly as it grew up, despite the experience.
 
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I walk mine off lead but always know where they are (in my near sight) and clip leads on when others approach if we don't know them or I know they are too big/boisterous/reactive. Ruby loves playing with other terriers and adores any white fluffy thing she can find (bichon, poodle,etc), Moti takes himself off to the side or stays by my leg and if he is uncomfortable we walk on with the lead clipped. The yellow nervous dog stuff helps sometimes but I have known people say "oh is he nervous :rolleyes: come here and have a stroke". FFS he doesn't want to interact with you.

I do not allow my dogs to approach dogs I don't know and I hate big dogs playing with mine because they are too heavy - so frankly no matter how friendly they are it is irrelevant. Unfortunately new puppy owners are often keen to "socialise" their dogs with anyone and everyone and it just doesn't work. Moti warns off puppies with a show of teeth and noise. He never ever makes contact but if he is on a lead and a puppy of any size bounces up to him I cannot blame him for telling them to go away. He doesn't need a muzzle. The owners of pups should understand that not all dogs want to be jumped on especially if they have had a dodgy start in life. I'm sorry for BC pup and it obviously chose the wrong dog to bounce with but both owners are to blame.
 
Jenko109

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My dogs only get walked off lead at unsociable hours.

We got up to go out to the forest just after 5am this morning. It's so much nicer walking and knowing there wont be anyone else out!

Sometimes the whippet, who is a jolly and sociable fellow will go to the local playing field in the day, however he stays on a long line unless we get chatting to someone and mutually agree to let the dogs have a play. That said, I am fussy about who he plays with and would not allow him to play with a bull breed, regardless of how positive the body language may be.

The reality is, these dogs could kill my whippet in seconds and I have zero interest in taking the risk.
 
twiggy2

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Maz the lurcher is rarely off lead in public these days, she runs off lead twice daily every day with all the collies, she is rarely in public places due to our lifestyle changing so much these days so is super giddy and daft with other dogs, if we go away for a couple of weeks she is off lead in very dog quiet places by day 3 or 4 as she settles back into public by then.
 
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I don't know why it's so bleddy difficult to walk your dog on a lead. I know it isn't fool proof but having your dog on a lead in public isn't hard. Where I've lived that's generally the rule. Or if you're out in the forest and fields you put them on the lead the minute you see another dog or even just a human. I mean, come on, get with it and stop being so selfish and self centered. I don't care how good spot listens or heels.

I'd also have no problem muzzling either one of my dogs and honestly, it creates less stress if you even have a question in your mind that you might lose control of your dog or that it might go for another. One of my dogs is a breed that is banned or restricted in various areas/parts of certain countries (she's a Cane Corso) and while I've taken her training very seriously, and she's fine, if someone told me that I'd have to muzzle her in public I'd be a bit annoyed for a second, sure, because it's not her "fault" directly, but I'd do it and ultimately have no issue with it. While she's smaller for the breed, and well trained, there have been idiots before her and larger ones that are much harder to control should SHTF.

I also think that part of the issue is that we are taking guarding/guardian dogs and putting them into environments that aren't natural to them. Taking your guardian breed and putting them into a busy area crawling with various people and animals means you really have to train them appropriately. I mean, really. Generally, you can train them to accept certain norms and accept you as the ultimate head of security, but it takes work, and that instinct is still there and you need to be aware of that.

I love the Cane Corso breed, and I prefer my CC over my Lab in many ways (the CC is lightyears more intelligent), but she comes with much more responsibly and her training has to be on. point. People buy these dogs for their looks, "tough guy" factor, and other wrong reasons and it's a huge injustice to the breed.

I don't think that dog licensing and fees are a bad idea, especially if those fees go to fund something beneficial. Having a dog (much like a horse) is a luxury, not a right.

In this instance with the BC and Bully, both owners are at fault to some extent. If you gave a fig about your pup, you wouldn't let it run up to strange dogs. With the bully, if you couldn't truly train it to be trust worthy, then muzzle it, nothing wrong with that. Sure there is a certain stigma, but better safe than sorry. I know sometimes dog owners genuinely don't expect it when their dog attacks, but we've got to be a little less clueless.

Edit: wow, some good typos in there. I'm not illiterate, just an eejit on a mobile phone typing too fast.
 
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splashgirl45

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I haven’t watched the video but although the bullies were not muzzled, in this case , from what I’ve read, the puppy was loose and going up to other dogs who were on lead so it’s the puppies owner who is the most to blame. If my dogs were off lead and I saw a large bull breed I would put mine on the lead and walk the other way , better to be safe IMO. The trouble is so many new owners do not seem to understand that a dog on lead should not be bothered by off lead dogs, especially puppies who haven’t learnt boundaries as they don’t read the on lead dogs body language. I’m really glad we don’t have many bull breeds in my area..
 
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splashgirl45 said:
I haven’t watched the video but although the bullies were not muzzled, in this case , from what I’ve read, the puppy was loose and going up to other dogs who were on lead so it’s the puppies owner who is the most to blame. If my dogs were off lead and I saw a large bull breed I would put mine on the lead and walk the other way , better to be safe IMO. The trouble is so many new owners do not seem to understand that a dog on lead should not be bothered by off lead dogs, especially puppies who haven’t learnt boundaries as they don’t read the on lead dogs body language. I’m really glad we don’t have many bull breeds in my area..
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Yes re the body language and puppies. However, it doesn't matter if it's a bull breed or not. Pay attention. Put your dog on a lead. Don't let your dog go up to strange dogs.
 
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CanteringCarrot

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ester said:
I guess it's possible the owner didn't know it would likely do that if they've never let go before.
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I thought about that, and I feel as though in some situations that is true. Some owners simply don't fathom what their dogs are capable of, nor do they realize what their dog WILL do.
 
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CanteringCarrot

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Clodagh said:
Well yes but not as efficiently as a bull breed. They are specifically bred for strength, grip and determination. Or were BITD and you can’t undo breed purpose. Why do goldies carry sticks in the park?
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Yes, that's all very true.

But imagine doing bite work and working with your dog and thoroughly installing a release command. That's beyond most or almost every average owner though! Just general obedience training is beyond most people's capabilities.

Wrong dog. Wrong hands. Wrong setting. Shite training.
 
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