Another fatal dog attack

[Clodagh]

I do see that it will be very sad for vets and rescues to be pts healthy and calm dogs. It is a depressing job already a lot of the time.
There are some that will cope better than others, I expect, like tail docking (as a weird example) word will get out as to who will do it.

 

[limestonelil]

I do see that it will be very sad for vets and rescues to be pts healthy and calm dogs. It is a depressing job already a lot of the time.
There are some that will cope better than others, I expect, like tail docking (as a weird example) word will get out as to who will do it.

Specifically replying to Clodagh's post regarding healthy and calm dogs PTS. I thought the genetic flaw meant that even this type of pet (only been calm previously ) could flip into attack, with no obvious warning whatsoever. Which means the vets/rescues need to PTS iyswim.CCarrot, noted your points about genetic testing, thought about costs and practicalities and backyard breeders etc, would many people bother. Any know a costing?

 

[Clodagh]

Specifically replying to Clodagh's post regarding healthy and calm dogs PTS. I thought the genetic flaw meant that even this type of pet (only been calm previously ) could flip into attack, with no obvious warning whatsoever. Which means the vets/rescues need to PTS iyswim.CCarrot, noted your points about genetic testing, thought about costs and practicalities and backyard breeders etc, would many people bother. Any know a costing?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for them to cease to exist but it’s not me killing them.
I’m also quite sure I could kill them but I do spend 5 months a year killing things.

 

[Jenko109]

Specifically replying to Clodagh's post regarding healthy and calm dogs PTS. I thought the genetic flaw meant that even this type of pet (only been calm previously ) could flip into attack, with no obvious warning whatsoever. Which means the vets/rescues need to PTS iyswim.CCarrot, noted your points about genetic testing, thought about costs and practicalities and backyard breeders etc, would many people bother. Any know a costing?

I'm sure knowing that doesnt make it easier though. If you have a sweet youngster with a waggy tail who appears to be a kind creature, it will still be painful having to take that life away.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Specifically replying to Clodagh's post regarding healthy and calm dogs PTS. I thought the genetic flaw meant that even this type of pet (only been calm previously ) could flip into attack, with no obvious warning whatsoever. Which means the vets/rescues need to PTS iyswim.CCarrot, noted your points about genetic testing, thought about costs and practicalities and backyard breeders etc, would many people bother. Any know a costing?

I'm not sure or the cost. I did have one of my dogs genetic tested out of curiosity. She is 100% what she's supposed to be, and no health markers showed up. We did find some relatives through the test too (Embark). I got the test during a sale and it was about £110

So I'd assume that a similar DNA test to look for genetic markers, traits, and/or lineage could be around the same cost.

Some people might go it, others would not. Especially if finding the marker automatically = PTS. Sensible people would be good with that, but others that aren't so sensible, don't care, or would rather not know for whatever reasons, would not be. Some would also take their chances because the dog "seems fine" at that moment.

You could make testing mandatory, but enforcing that would be difficult and who would do it?

You might get the handful of owners that would do it, but that'd be it, I think.

I am of the belief that we have the capabilities though.

 

[ycbm]

Or perhaps vets could be encouraged to put their scruples aside for the common good - after all, unwanted XLBs have no real future

How would people feel if they killed their stray dog because the dog sitter made a mistake and they were away on holiday and they couldn't trace them?

Vets can't kill healthy dogs until it is proved they aren't somebody's property. It would be a criminal offence, I think possibly "criminal damage". And probably their code of practice means not even then unless the dog has been proved to be dangerous first.

I think there would need to be to be a law change both to allow vets to kill the dog and to instruct them to do so.

I don't see this as vets' responsibility, it's not what they sent into vet medecine to do, kill unwanted calm and healthy dogs. The Police have people who can shoot a dog and so do hunts.
.

 

[skinnydipper]

Tuks Law: Fighting to Stop Vets Euthanising Healthy Pets | poppys-pets.com

Vets are putting healthy and treatable pets to sleep without verifying ownership or checking if the animal has rescue-back-up by scanning for a microchip.

poppys-pets.com

 

[rara007]

Complete can of worms. Why was the dog presented for PTS?

If, for example, a behavioural PTS was put off because the rescue wanted it back, what is there in place to confirm the rescue have enough of a clue to assess if the dog can be rehomed safely.
A good 50% of microchips appear to be either ‘missing’ or not correctly registered. Unless presented by the police behavioural PTSs tend to be pretty highly emotional and tense affairs. Who’s going to take the dog if the chip details are not tying up, considering the people presenting it to you are concerned enough they want it destroyed.
And ‘treatable conditions’. How treatable? At what cost and by whose ethical judgement.

 

[marmalade76]

Tuks Law: Fighting to Stop Vets Euthanising Healthy Pets | poppys-pets.com

Vets are putting healthy and treatable pets to sleep without verifying ownership or checking if the animal has rescue-back-up by scanning for a microchip.

poppys-pets.com

I find that hard to get my head round, I would've thought that a microchip would be the first thing a vet would check with a stray.

 

[marmalade76]

Complete can of worms. Why was the dog presented for PTS?

If, for example, a behavioural PTS was put off because the rescue wanted it back, what is there in place to confirm the rescue have enough of a clue to assess if the dog can be rehomed safely.
A good 50% of microchips appear to be either ‘missing’ or not correctly registered. Unless presented by the police behavioural PTSs tend to be pretty highly emotional and tense affairs. Who’s going to take the dog if the chip details are not tying up, considering the people presenting it to you are concerned enough they want it destroyed.
And ‘treatable conditions’. How treatable? At what cost and by whose ethical judgement.

Did the adopter take the dog to be PTS and it's the rescue that imported him complaining?

Then there's this one..



So the owner cannot choose to have their own animal PTS? Personally I don't have a problem with this, there's too many unwanted dogs in the country, what's wrong with having a few of them PTS? Imagine if horse owners were prevented from making that decision for their horses? All these posts where people are told to PTS their horse rather than pass in on to an uncertain future - why is it different for dogs? I don't agree with this attempt to control these choices, sorry.

 

[rara007]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid032BiUn3UpWToxdFzKYS29YQAkW6z7BSAY2naSiQq7yLqXUwJ9fz951MKTfDMeWaKfl&id=100064804085827

And situations like this. Dog bites someone, owners give it up, rescue places it in foster (presumably experienced home) that find it too much, breeder (that works with dogs) thinks it should be PTS. But instead they’re still looking for someone to take on the dog.

 

[skinnydipper]

So the owner cannot choose to have their own animal PTS? Personally I don't have a problem with this, there's too many unwanted dogs in the country, what's wrong with having a few of them PTS?

Sometimes people adopt a dog and try to do too much too soon or don't have a good understanding of dog behaviour, whatever, they then want the dog PTS when basically it's their fault that they have pushed the dog too far or too soon. Rescue dogs need time to decompress and settle into their new home and start to build a relationship based on trust with their new owner not carted off to PAH, into work, off to the local coffee shop.

 

[ycbm]

Tuks Law: Fighting to Stop Vets Euthanising Healthy Pets | poppys-pets.com

Vets are putting healthy and treatable pets to sleep without verifying ownership or checking if the animal has rescue-back-up by scanning for a microchip.

poppys-pets.com

I'm afraid that rescue just sounds like one that is determined to keep animals alive and have them treated even when vets think that the ethical choice is to PTS.

 

[skinnydipper]

I'm afraid that rescue just sounds like one that is determined to keep animals alive and have them treated even when vets think that the ethical choice is to PTS.

Try not to focus on one rescue organisation. Look at the big picture. See my post 2742.

 

[ycbm]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid032BiUn3UpWToxdFzKYS29YQAkW6z7BSAY2naSiQq7yLqXUwJ9fz951MKTfDMeWaKfl&id=100064804085827

And situations like this. Dog bites someone, owners give it up, rescue places it in foster (presumably experienced home) that find it too much, breeder (that works with dogs) thinks it should be PTS. But instead they’re still looking for someone to take on the dog.

Is that even a labrador?
.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's a Kool Krazy Kolor and DEFINITELY hasn't had any Weimaraner injected into the lines at any stage.

 

[skinnydipper]

I'm afraid that rescue just sounds like one that is determined to keep animals alive and have them treated even when vets think that the ethical choice is to PTS.

All the vet has to go on is what the client tells them.

There are not many vets who are qualified behaviourists.

 

[cauda equina]

How would people feel if they killed their stray dog because the dog sitter made a mistake and they were away on holiday and they couldn't trace them?

Vets can't kill healthy dogs until it is proved they aren't somebody's property. It would be a criminal offence, I think possibly "criminal damage". And probably their code of practice means not even then unless the dog has been proved to be dangerous first.

I think there would need to be to be a law change both to allow vets to kill the dog and to instruct them to do so.

I don't see this as vets' responsibility, it's not what they sent into vet medecine to do, kill unwanted calm and healthy dogs. The Police have people who can shoot a dog and so do hunts.
.

But we are talking about XLBs here, not just any random stray dog

If the dog sitter made a mistake such that an XLB was wandering around on its own I am sure the owners would be upset but would understand why it was pts, when the rules specifically state that these dogs must be leashed and muzzled in public
eta And I hope no dog sitter would be so dozy as to let an XLB escape in the first place

 

[Jenko109]

But we are talking about XLBs here, not just any random stray dog

If the dog sitter made a mistake such that an XLB was wandering around on its own I am sure the owners would be upset but would understand why it was pts, when the rules specifically state that these dogs must be leashed and muzzled in public
eta And I hope no dog sitter would be so dozy as to let an XLB escape in the first place

Do you think dog sitters will be allowed to dog sit these dogs? I would be surprised if their insurance allows it?

 

[maisie06]

No gamble in the UK, you are definitely not allowed to carry any kind of offensive weapon in public in case of a need for self defense, particularly not a knife.


From the CPS guidelines



I don't think stating that your intention was to use it on a dog will be a defence.

TBH and brutally honest there are so few police officers in my area that the chances of an average horsey person/dog walker ever being caught with a knife are very very slim. I know of an elderly lady who carries a hammer about her person and isn;t afraid to use it if needed, she has stated she'd be better looked after in prison than a care home anyway - I had to laugh when she said that, she's probably not wrong!!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Is that even a labrador?
.

Yeah, it's a "silver lab" the origins are debatable as to how that dilute gene appeared. Well, not so much debatable, more like denial.

It's rather far back though, I think, because some dogs still test 100% Labrador if there is a charcoal or silver in their lines.

 

[SilverLinings]

I would add 3 - they seem to be marketed as family dogs for some strange reason.

Definitely, although that may come under reason 2 in my last post- the large number of ignorant owners attracted to the breed who have no common sense and no knowledge about dogs (or interest in learning). A lot of them seem to fall for any marketing nonsense from 'ideal family dog' to 'rare colour' (this also applies to a lot of owners of other breeds too).

I don't know how any adult (without a learning disability or psychological disorder) in the UK could claim any more that they didn't know that this breed could be dangerous, or that they thought it was ok to leave an XLB alone with a child. Aside from the media coverage about the breed we are all aware that dogs can bite and kill, and the XLB is clearly so big and strong that aside from being able to overpower a child an adult onlooker wouldn't stand much of a chance trying to stop it.

I'm not sure if it is a worrying level of stupidity and ignorance, or that they are so wrapped up in themselves and their social media personas that their selfishness and desire for attention and self-promotion means that they ignore everything else (and the safety of everyone else) and common sense goes out of the window

 

[Clodagh]

Dogs that have bitten and broken the skin should not be rehomed. I’m sure there are some homes that can cope, but many more can’t. It’s sad for the individual dog but they have usually been failed by people in the first place.
There’s many that haven’t bitten, let’s find them a home.
And if it is a bull breed then that x1000.

 

[ArklePig]

Some helpful man on my local news comments section has solved why dog attacks are happening, so you can all stop the discussion

 

[ycbm]

Yeah, it's a "silver lab" the origins are debatable as to how that dilute gene appeared. Well, not so much debatable, more like denial.

It's rather far back though, I think, because some dogs still test 100% Labrador if there is a charcoal or silver in their lines.

That particular one also has an extremely wide forehead and small, piercing, focussed forward facing eyes ....... kind of like a bull terrier? I wouldn't trust it further than I could throw it.
.

 

[SilverLinings]

Dogs that have bitten and broken the skin should not be rehomed. I’m sure there are some homes that can cope, but many more can’t. It’s sad for the individual dog but they have usually been failed by people in the first place.
There’s many that haven’t bitten, let’s find them a home.
And if it is a bull breed then that x1000.

And that's the nub of the issue of keeping known biters in a rescue; many rescues have said over the last year that they have paused taking in new dogs because they are full, so if there are too many dogs to be homed then shouldn't the ones with NO history of biting be prioritised and have the resources used to find them a home? [rhetorical question really ]

Some helpful man on my local news comments section has solved why dog attacks are happening, so you can all stop the discussion

Thank goodness for that, an answer at last! We just need to stop all these evil life-saving vaccination programmes and let people dieof TB, covid, flu, hepatitis, polio, malaria...

That has to be the dumbest conspiracy theory I've heard yet, thanks for the laugh (and underlying feeling of horror!) @ArklePig

 

[CanteringCarrot]

That particular one also has an extremely wide forehead and small, piercing, focussed forward facing eyes ....... kind of like a bull terrier? I wouldn't trust it further than I could throw it.
.

I don't know about bull terrier, but maybe . I've also seen a lot of face variance in Labs. Some are ugly to me. Some are blocky, some less so, some I don't like the eyes, etc. So I really can't say.

 

[Clodagh]

Some helpful man on my local news comments section has solved why dog attacks are happening, so you can all stop the discussion

He has a point, I’ve had a few covid and flu jabs and I often want to kill people.

 

[Chucho]

You could make testing mandatory, but enforcing that would be difficult and who would do it?

I think ultimately the responsibility should lie with the breeder in the same way that other health testing does. Both parents should be fully health and temperament tested (genetics). If there are genetic tests that are proven to be associated with e.g. rage syndrome, then they should be being used.

It wouldn't stop people buying from unscrupulous breeders, but it would help raise the bar for the good breeders out there who work so hard to improve the health/quality of the dogs that they produce.

 

[marmalade76]

That particular one also has an extremely wide forehead and small, piercing, focussed forward facing eyes ....... kind of like a bull terrier? I wouldn't trust it further than I could throw it.
.

I was thinking the same..