Another fatal dog attack

[paddy555]

Owning a banned dog is far more complex than that, issues with housing and accessing dog related services and the fact that you cant rehome unless you are dying.
The type actually covers all bull breeds larger than a staffi. Rotties mastiffs boxers will all type as a xl bully. If followed they will disappear as uk breeds within 10 yrs.

The govement have massively messed up on this. They had the opportunity to focus on responsible ownership and breeding with the full support of charities and the dog control coalation. Instead they have lost all there support and opened up a whole new market for breeders. People will look to replace there now banned large bull breeds with something similar but legal. The giant breeds will be crossed with smaller breeds or bred together into new types. Lgds will take off and so will large spitz types. The now illegal bull breeds will be bred with anything long coated or pointy faced to get around the legislation. Xl bully x caucasian shepherd. Presa x akita. Malinois x boerbol. You think big bull breeds are bad watch a lgd deal with a threat.

You might say the answer is to just keep banning (until it gets to your breed and you cant go on holiday with them or get another when you lose them) but its not cause this ban wont work. The pit ban didnt as there are more pits now and loads more deaths from pits than when they legal. Do you want that a similar statistic with xl bullies. It will make the last few years look good tbh.
Every piece of goverment advisor correspondance on this shows the same thing, signifiicant concerns with implemntation and enforcement. Lets say 400000 dogs are types (all bull breeds bigger than a staffi, bull breeds hugely popular in urban area ) will they all be registered by feb, neutered by 2025. How many of them will simply be owned by people who dont bother for whatever reason. Police and local authority rescources are not infinite, in fact they r at record lows. So within 6 months it is an adject failure, more deaths from banned dogs than pre ban essentially. Any alternative then is doomed to failure as everyone will know the laws cant be enforced, So leash muzzle license test ect waste of time. Watch the situation deteriorate rapidly. But hey bullies were banned so thats ok lol.

btw i dont own an xl or any typed dog. I know dogs though and I know the dog world both the legal and illegal sides.

so in the meantime whilst Nero fiddles Rome burns.

responsible ownership? these owners have no wish to be responsible. How can any set of owners who continually refer to their "babies" being good with real life human babies ever understand a bull breed and wake up to the risks?

If they wanted to be responsible owners they would have muzzled them immediately once they saw the danger they pose an public opinion. However they either don't see the danger as Fido is too busy licking the baby (or in his view having an early taste of his future dinner ) or alternatively he is doing exactly what they want ie a potential fighting dog.

welcome to the forum. Can you introduce yourself? your background with dogs and horses etc

 

[DabDab]

Owning a banned dog is far more complex than that, issues with housing and accessing dog related services and the fact that you cant rehome unless you are dying.
The type actually covers all bull breeds larger than a staffi. Rotties mastiffs boxers will all type as a xl bully. If followed they will disappear as uk breeds within 10 yrs.

The govement have massively messed up on this. They had the opportunity to focus on responsible ownership and breeding with the full support of charities and the dog control coalation. Instead they have lost all there support and opened up a whole new market for breeders. People will look to replace there now banned large bull breeds with something similar but legal. The giant breeds will be crossed with smaller breeds or bred together into new types. Lgds will take off and so will large spitz types. The now illegal bull breeds will be bred with anything long coated or pointy faced to get around the legislation. Xl bully x caucasian shepherd. Presa x akita. Malinois x boerbol. You think big bull breeds are bad watch a lgd deal with a threat.

You might say the answer is to just keep banning (until it gets to your breed and you cant go on holiday with them or get another when you lose them) but its not cause this ban wont work. The pit ban didnt as there are more pits now and loads more deaths from pits than when they legal. Do you want that a similar statistic with xl bullies. It will make the last few years look good tbh.
Every piece of goverment advisor correspondance on this shows the same thing, signifiicant concerns with implemntation and enforcement. Lets say 400000 dogs are types (all bull breeds bigger than a staffi, bull breeds hugely popular in urban area ) will they all be registered by feb, neutered by 2025. How many of them will simply be owned by people who dont bother for whatever reason. Police and local authority rescources are not infinite, in fact they r at record lows. So within 6 months it is an adject failure, more deaths from banned dogs than pre ban essentially. Any alternative then is doomed to failure as everyone will know the laws cant be enforced, So leash muzzle license test ect waste of time. Watch the situation deteriorate rapidly. But hey bullies were banned so thats ok lol.

btw i dont own an xl or any typed dog. I know dogs though and I know the dog world both the legal and illegal sides.

I would love there to be more focus on responsible ownership and breeding, but I don't see why that couldn't still be done if the will is there? I'm not sure how adding another type to the DDA changes that possibility.

But talking specifically about the xl bully, I don't believe any of them have ever been responsibly bred. They are not an established breed, there is no breed standard, health testing, proven bloodlines, temperament assessment. So if we lived in a perfect world with high level of responsibility regarding dog breeding then the xl bully should not even exist.

And as for all the other hideous crosses that you declare people will now create, well, you can't fix stupid. Even with a massive focus on responsible ownership and breeding, idiots are still going to idiot.

 

[marmalade76]

I can't pretend I see this as a bad thing.

Wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[skinnydipper]

Owning a banned dog is far more complex than that, issues with housing and accessing dog related services and the fact that you cant rehome unless you are dying.
The type actually covers all bull breeds larger than a staffi. Rotties mastiffs boxers will all type as a xl bully. If followed they will disappear as uk breeds within 10 yrs.

The govement have massively messed up on this. They had the opportunity to focus on responsible ownership and breeding with the full support of charities and the dog control coalation. Instead they have lost all there support and opened up a whole new market for breeders. People will look to replace there now banned large bull breeds with something similar but legal. The giant breeds will be crossed with smaller breeds or bred together into new types. Lgds will take off and so will large spitz types. The now illegal bull breeds will be bred with anything long coated or pointy faced to get around the legislation. Xl bully x caucasian shepherd. Presa x akita. Malinois x boerbol. You think big bull breeds are bad watch a lgd deal with a threat.

You might say the answer is to just keep banning (until it gets to your breed and you cant go on holiday with them or get another when you lose them) but its not cause this ban wont work. The pit ban didnt as there are more pits now and loads more deaths from pits than when they legal. Do you want that a similar statistic with xl bullies. It will make the last few years look good tbh.
Every piece of goverment advisor correspondance on this shows the same thing, signifiicant concerns with implemntation and enforcement. Lets say 400000 dogs are types (all bull breeds bigger than a staffi, bull breeds hugely popular in urban area ) will they all be registered by feb, neutered by 2025. How many of them will simply be owned by people who dont bother for whatever reason. Police and local authority rescources are not infinite, in fact they r at record lows. So within 6 months it is an adject failure, more deaths from banned dogs than pre ban essentially. Any alternative then is doomed to failure as everyone will know the laws cant be enforced, So leash muzzle license test ect waste of time. Watch the situation deteriorate rapidly. But hey bullies were banned so thats ok lol.

btw i dont own an xl or any typed dog. I know dogs though and I know the dog world both the legal and illegal sides.

I seem to have missed the post where you introduced yourself to the forum.

It's a shame you didn't share your extensive knowledge and expertise with those who could make a difference, those involved in the decision making.

APDAWG have been working with dog rehoming charities, do gooders and other interested parties since its inception in 2017, I would say that is plenty of time to implement a successful strategy.

Something needed to be done NOW.

I note in all your speil there is not one mention of the victims, those who lost their lives and those whose lives will never be the same again.

If the DDA is deemed a failure then steps should be taken to make it work, to enforce it and to make sure that we are never in this position again, starting with who should be allowed to breed and what they are allowed to breed.

LGDs are already here. Anatolians, Kangals and Ovcharkas are being rehomed by rescue charities to people who have never heard of a livestock guardian.

Rehoming charities need to review their rehoming and pts policies.

 

[marmalade76]

It has quite shocked me how Bully fans seem to have absolutely no sympathy or even a thought for those who've been victims of these dogs, I've seen comments saying it's media propaganda and that the dogs responsible were not proven to be Bullies. Someone described bully fans as cultish and I think they're right.

 

[skinnydipper]

How can any set of owners who continually refer to their "babies" being good with real life human babies ever understand a bull breed and wake up to the risks?

Speaking of which:

“Milo has been like a baby to me and I was traumatised when I saw what he did to the boy.

“He’s never been aggressive before and is normally a happy dog who’s great around children."

Dog owner, 43, insists XL Bully that mauled boy, 12, is 'great around kids'

A WOMAN today insisted her raging XL Bully that left a 12-year-old boy in hospital after a horrific dog attack is “great around kids”. Mohid Gardazee, 12, was cycling near his home in O…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[paddy555]

Speaking of which:

“Milo has been like a baby to me and I was traumatised when I saw what he did to the boy.

“He’s never been aggressive before and is normally a happy dog who’s great around children."

Dog owner, 43, insists XL Bully that mauled boy, 12, is 'great around kids'

A WOMAN today insisted her raging XL Bully that left a 12-year-old boy in hospital after a horrific dog attack is “great around kids”. Mohid Gardazee, 12, was cycling near his home in O…

www.thesun.co.uk

I'm very sorry for this lady's trauma. It must have been truly terrible for her.

 

[gunnergundog]

Just as there are health tests and working tests/show accolades etc for dogs before breeding I really think it's about time that some 'health tests' were introduced before humans are allowed to breed: IQ and common sense being the first that come to mind.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I really think it's about time that some 'health tests' were introduced before humans are allowed to breed: IQ and common sense being the first that come to mind.

Well yes I do see where you are coming from and I have to confess that idea had crossed my mind more than once. But that does sound eerily like breeding the so called Lebensborn that Hitler's Germany thought such a good idea. That didn't go well for them or for anyone else did it?

 

[SilverLinings]

It's literally there on the screenshot Arklepig posted

Unfortunately I can't see the screenshot, just a 'picture' icon. I can't see a lot of pictures posted on here, I assume it's because my laptop is so old or the internet connection at home is so cr@p. As there were comments talking about what the 'charity' is planning I can see what is going on, but not the actual screenshots. Not as frustrating as when I can't see pictures someone posts of their new puppy/foal though

 

[cauda equina]

Unfortunately I can't see the screenshot, just a 'picture' icon. I can't see a lot of pictures posted on here, I assume it's because my laptop is so old or the internet connection at home is so cr@p. As there were comments talking about what the 'charity' is planning I can see what is going on, but not the actual screenshots. Not as frustrating as when I can't see pictures someone posts of their new puppy/foal though

Another fatal dog attack

After looking at this one I kept scrolling, quite a few adult bullies for sale for low prices , the trouble is they could easily get into the wrong hands , feel sorry for the dogs The low priced ones all say something like 'Change in circumstances forces sale' - which sounds like 'I previously...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[cauda equina]

Unfortunately I can't see the screenshot, just a 'picture' icon. I can't see a lot of pictures posted on here, I assume it's because my laptop is so old or the internet connection at home is so cr@p. As there were comments talking about what the 'charity' is planning I can see what is going on, but not the actual screenshots. Not as frustrating as when I can't see pictures someone posts of their new puppy/foal though

eta - 'these babies'

 

[DabDab]

Unfortunately I can't see the screenshot, just a 'picture' icon. I can't see a lot of pictures posted on here, I assume it's because my laptop is so old or the internet connection at home is so cr@p. As there were comments talking about what the 'charity' is planning I can see what is going on, but not the actual screenshots. Not as frustrating as when I can't see pictures someone posts of their new puppy/foal though

The post is calling on supporters to make click and collect orders through a branch of a well known national pet shop chain. They are asking for the click and collect orders to be made in the name of the 'charity' so that they can just go down and collect the food etc ordered from this specific branch.

CC has done a picture clue to the chain mentioned up thread

 

[Pippity]

The post is calling on supporters to make click and collect orders through a branch of a well known national pet shop chain. They are asking for the click and collect orders to be made in the name of the 'charity' so that they can just go down and collect the food etc ordered from this specific branch.

CC has done a picture clue to the chain mentioned up thread

Or we could just say that it's Pets At Home. I'm not sure why we're avoiding saying it?

 

[DabDab]

Or we could just say that it's Pets At Home. I'm not sure why we're avoiding saying it?

Me neither, but didn't want to be the one to say it as such great lengths had been gone to so far...

 

[Pippity]

Me neither, but didn't want to be the one to say it as such great lengths had been gone to so far...

I'm a spoilsport!

 

[Smitty]

What do they want a dog run for babies for? I think Social Services need to get involved

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I can't pretend I see this as a bad thing.

I do. I don't count mastiffs or boxers as a bull breed, but that's just me.


I do own a mastiff, so I am partially biased.

I just don't consider a mastiff or Boxer an XL Bully? My mastiff is 75lbs, and much slighter built than an XL Bully, but I guess she should be lumped in with them? Same with the neighbors Boxer, she's even smaller.

 

[Cortez]

I do. I don't count mastiffs or boxers as a bull breed, but that's just me.


I do own a mastiff, so I am partially biased.

I just don't consider a mastiff or Boxer an XL Bully? My mastiff is 75lbs, and much slighter built than an XL Bully, but I guess she should be lumped in with them? Same with the neighbors Boxer, she's even smaller.

I know this is a forlorn hope, but it would be nice if legislators could consult with people who actually know what they're talking about before drafting laws, as well as looking at the numbers (how many people have been attacked by a boxer, for instance).

*Boxers were removed from the original spec for restricted breeds here after it was pointed out that they weren't actually a problem, for instance.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I know this is a forlorn hope, but it would be nice if legislators could consult with people who actually know what they're talking about before drafting laws, as well as looking at the numbers (how many people have been attacked by a boxer, for instance).

*Boxers were removed from the original spec for restricted breeds here after it was pointed out that they weren't actually a problem, for instance.

Right, "imagine a world where..."

I'm a big fan of drafting laws with good, solid, data to back the reasoning. However, people's definitions of good, solid, data, seems to vary!

No country is perfect, but the UK has slid down on my list of places to return to (for permanent living), for a variety of reasons.

 

[marmalade76]

Right, "imagine a world where..."

I'm a big fan of drafting laws with good, solid, data to back the reasoning. However, people's definitions of good, solid, data, seems to vary!

No country is perfect, but the UK has slid down on my list of places to return to (for permanent living), for a variety of reasons.

I wouldn't bother coming back if I were you, the place is going to the dogs.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm disappointed to see we've descended into 'oh good, this slapdash, badly formulated legislation that already didn't work, means that breeds I personally don't like will disappear'.

Bull breeds and mastiffs do very little for me, but what on earth have boxers done wrong in living memory? I think inandout, whoever they are, made some pretty decent points.

When I watch what is happening in Europe, I predict that dog ownership in general (yes, even collies and spaniels) will become very restrictive in the decades to come.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Boxers are such clowns I've known quite a few, and 2 were oddly "human-like" for a dog.

I could see restrictions, guidance, or rules regarding Mastiffs, but not some blanket ban or situation where all Mastiffs are lumped into the XL Bully category.

I'm fine with restrictions and/or bans when warranted, but I also hope that no one loses sight of the real, deep, and spreading societal issues.

 

[splashgirl45]

The trouble is the current legislation does not work so adding another breed won’t suddenly mean all is well. It’s too easy to buy a powerful dog so maybe we need some sort of licensing for all dogs , all dogs are supposed to be microchipped and traceable so that’s a start. I know it won’t pick up the bad owners but it’s better than doing nothing

 

[DabDab]

I think inandout, whoever they are, made some pretty decent points.

Which points? Not trying to be obtuse but other than an undefined, general point about responsible ownership and breeding (didn't even describe what this looks like), and that the legislation might catch a load of other breeds, which has already been mention on the thread, and I agree is pretty crappy, there were no real 'points' being made that I could see.

Maybe the new poster could have engaged in the conversation rather than going for the make a statement and leave approach. It's people making these kinds of pronouncements rather than acknowledging a problem in any meaningful way that has in part led to where we are now, and the direction it will continue to go.

Not sure on the changes in Europe that you mention, but I personally would be happy if dog owning became a lot more restrictive. I would happily take a test and pay a licence for ownership, and as much as I love my mongrelly things I would accept a ban on cross-breeding except certain, approved circumstances

 

[Pippity]

I wouldn't bother coming back if I were you, the place is going to the dogs.

If it weren't for my elderly mum, I'd have left by now.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have to say I wasn't aware that the jolly old Boxer is on that list. I have met many Boxers over the years, without exception I found them all the most goofy, playful and loving eejits that bounced all around the place spraying anyone within a couple of yards with slobber. What's not to like?

 

[conniegirl]

I think a boxer would fail on a large number of the body description.

Ive never seen a boxer that could be described as blocky or having great power for size. Nor are thier chests wider than they are deep.
Equally i think they are too leggy to be considered square

 

[tristars]

When you've calmed down and stopped frothing at the mouth, perhaps you could take the time to check your facts?

oh heck, sounds like rabies

sorry could not resist that

 

[Cortez]

I think a boxer would fail on a large number of the body description.
View attachment 126727
Ive never seen a boxer that could be described as blocky or having great power for size. Nor are thier chests wider than they are deep.
Equally i think they are too leggy to be considered square

That could be a fairly accurate description of a pug, or a Boston Terrier......